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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Miri of Sonoma, May 27, 2012.
If ever a post hilighted the need for a DISlike button...
I was searching for one too!!
One of the best thigns in UO is all the warrior women. I would by far prefer the women of Sosaria out there in armor then in the kitchen with all those NPCs.
Yes, she was!
Dislike? Spite! Detest. Whoever said that needs a backalley blanketparty with a baseballbat.... or to return to the Stone Age.
Well.... I reckon comments like that puts 'em back in the kitchen on occasion.....
....I am afraid to ask where Ken's arms went... *looks at the pot on the stove*
I never realized that Barbie's last name was Dahmer...
Dude wasn't that an episode of Dexter???
What freekin century were YOU born in, dewd?
She really wasn't. For so many reasons. One she was not of noble birth. Two there was no real French "king" at the time as the throne was very contested. She was a warrior maybe although there aren't that many credible sources as to her generalship or actual battlefield accomplishments. What there are a ton of highly credible sources are is to her ability to raise moral and to get the French troops to fight and fight hard. At that time period that was for the most part actually more important then a plan in anything other then seige warfare. But again folks are confusing the term Knight with something else of what they want it to be. In UO though there are no noble birth characters. So being a Knight is more about and connected to being a noble/virtuous warrior and in that case the term Knight would not really have a gender. We should leave in Dame for those ladies that want the rank but are not warriors and have Knight for both men and women as in UO that makes sense. Also all the ladies of UO keep out there with your swords and don't listen to folks telling you that your place is the kitchen. Your place is in front of a computer killing things
Regardless of the historical accuracy of women knights in real life, we know that women can be knighted in UO:
ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main
ORIGIN - Ultima Online - Main
Though the Knight/Dame titles granted by City Loyalty seem more a nobiliary title than a military title.
Apparently some folks doth not realise that some men are just as great at cookin as some women folks are. My husband cooks just as wonderfully as I do, just we have different sorts of things we each are separately good at cooking up.
Why his thanksgiving gravy is to DIE FOR it is sooo good, but I am the one that cooked up all the turkey and fixins, and then I go sit down while the MAN of gravy extradinare makes our gravy...and when it comes to smashin all the tatos for our thanksgiving mashed potatos, Mr. Muscles takes over smashin em all. He also has more patience to do most fryin of chicken than I do, he does all our steaks too, I do the stir fry and pastas and roasts and baked goods more or less, we share cookin and we eat well. Course we also have his and her weed wackers for yard work his being the heavier one mine being the wimpier one but WE BOTH do yard work too. Think it is called a shared chores marriage of 40+ yrs... why he even helped changing babies diapers too back in the day.
His bbq pulled pork and ribs on the slow cookin are also to die for yummmmmmmmmmmmm !! And if we want home made pizza guess whom fools with that... THE MAN !
And he is GOOD AT IT ~!
Men can be fantastic chefs, and yes women can be KNIGHTS
[especially in some make believe world fantasy game online !!]
One of my chrs. was *knighted* on Siege Perilous via a guild of mostly male pvping knights of Justice.
She EARNED that right to become knighted, and it was very difficult to even become knighted by that guild on Siege regardless of template or gender twas no easy tasks to achieve becoming *knighted* by the Knights of The Silver Serpent/ KSS on Siege Perilous back then.
Would stand to reason, if one put out all the fires, arrested all the rioters, picked up all that trash, even earned enough loyalty, to BUY a banner, they thus should also be able to BUY the title : KNIGHT ! even if female so long as they did the work and tasks required...nuff said especially in some ONLINE makebelieve game world !
And don't forget I had to defend Yew from raiders. usually by myself!!!! AND I had to walk all those rioters up to the guard captain, no fancy magical shortcut! Oh my aching feet! Indeed .....nuff said. *smiles*
Yes I have one male chr. whom is ONLY adored, and I found out he can not be *Knight* only title that interested me anyhow, because he never got past *adored*. . and I never had yet the patience to keep on keeping on beyond *adored* got 2 New Mag. banners paid for and that is it for me. :*
Was kinda hoping he too could *buy* the knight title but not so, and I am NOT gonna keep on keeping on til he gets zillion or whatever more arrests made esp. with some folks' loyalty even decayin when it shouldn't ! Bleh.
Yeh Yew one of the more difficult due to location of spawns and guards etc.
I wanted to try Vesper too, seen all the distance and unless I used a gater chr. bleh.
New Mag is actually one of the easier towns to get all that done with even there, going beyond adored is...........ANNOYINGLY repetitive !
It's up to the king who his knights are. He chooses them for his own reasons, most likely for a goal that he is interested in. It could be a Holy Cruisade or Blood Bath. It makes sense as king, not to send your women to the slaughter when you need them to make babies. If you can't make babies then you won't have an army. So, it makes sense to protect your women. That's really what a knight is. A Protector.
Depending on the kingdom, women could be knights but I think what you're seeing, is at a time of armour and heavy steel, a woman would not had been as capable as a man. A woman would need her own design. Her own training, a light weapon and speed and of course everything else that makes a knight.
I think that's why history reflects what it does, simply because of strength or brute force. I'm sure men did not train women to be warriors at the age of three, like they would have men. So, history would show women to be rarely knighted but because history says a woman could not be a knight does not mean that they could not be equal to men who were knights.
If I was the king it would not matter if you were a man or a woman. What would matter is if you shown youself to be a knight and that would be my image of a knight.
Well it seems Hunter's Moon was on the right track. My friends tell me that if you use a polymorph spell on yourself you can be a knight. So if you look like a dog or a cat, you can be a knight in Sosaria but not if you are a human female! Ahh well *smiles*
Hmmmmm.... Why would one so valiant be required to stoop to such subterfuge?
Did you add magery to your template and cast polymorph then buy the title of knight? If you dropped the polymorph,did the knight title stay as the overhead title?
Well I haven't tried it yet..I am still wrestling with whether or not I should (it actually goes against her character to use magic, therefore, she is hesitant. Also there are the virtues to consider..it is hardly humbling to go through such subterfuge, as Kylie put it, for a title. Anyway, that is something she will have to decide.) Just thought I would post the "solution" in case anyone cares.
Well, it does work. Faeryl now has both Knight and Dame titles
Hmmmm, I am glad Mosby didn't want to see under the dress at that time
I'll have you know she was a dog at the time. Or technically considering her gender, a bitch. Which could be the case even if she weren't canine.
*tires to think of a witty comeback and fails... slinks his way back to the shallow end of the witty banter pool*
Men who are knighted are not called Knight so and so, they are called Sir so and so. And, at least in today's modern world there ARE female knights who have actually been knighted but they are called Dame so and so (e.g. Dame Judi Dench). Therefore Knight is a gender neutral title and should be available to both genders. I am happy to have it that way and don't need Sir for women seeing as we aren't military . . .
This is very much not true. While the king could promote the wholesale addition of noblity lead to many nobles revolts. In fact gaining nobility was very rare until after the age of discovery and even then only in countrys where it was of little importance (like the UK and the eventually easier Peerages). We are not just talking about a military rank but also the leadership of the country. Fedual relationships were very complicated and had as much to do with allowing someone the rights to be a judge, as well as protecting exisiting privileges. For all of the Middle Ages there weren't strong states like there came to be and in many cases the King was not the most powerful force. Barons and Duke often had as much if not more power then the king. Take for example the King of France vs the Duke of Burgandy. The Duke was more powerful for most of history then the King who would actually hold feudal lands of his own but while soverign over the kingdom did not actually excersise control. For more on just how week the Kings actually were you should look at Henry the VIII and why he had to so empower parlimant. Despite what we want to think Kings were far from the end all be all in their kingdoms and the existing noble structures has a ton of say in new nobility. These bodies ended up becoming the first legislatures just to see the power that the accrued and only after the age of discovery and gunpowder. During the Crusades it was actually even harder to get nighted as most of the orders would only accept higher tired nobles and other orders that didn't required not just royal approval and all that entailed but Church approval as well. Knights were not commonly made and were not just a military force. Hence why there is the nobility title of Dame.
a little perspective.
i Actually hold 2 Noble titles, I am a Baron (hungarian) , and a Count(austrian) both dont mean squat anymore but a 100 years ago they did, in my background there were austrian-hungarian female knights although extreamly rare, you DID NOT need to be knighted by the king, nor did you need to be of noble birth to gain knighthood(although it helped a LOT!) any Landed lord could knight any of his soldiers, this of course would follow many traditions and there would be inflluence of the church involved,and would require the grants of land and sometimes title. But this was not something that any lord would do lighly, there were politics involed as well.
History is a wonderful thing and we can learn so much but I was trying to use the words in a much broader sense not just in the historical sense, like Burger King is the king of burgers or a kingdom in UO where you could start a kingdom with a blank history where it wouldn't matter if you were a man or woman or an elf.
I was also trying to touch base on the kingdom of heaven. I may be assuming to much but God would be the King and who he chooses to be his knights would be his knights. History is fascinating because it can track down who you were related to, who your brothers were, who your sisters are and what people did who were in your family thousands of years ago but it is more important to me to learn from history and to change. It's funny how we forget and then history repeats itself over and over.
Even in todays gangs, we have Kings, people who control the money or the power. Alot of this hasn't changed, only the names, the ideas are still there. This is what leads me to believe that all histories would be similar. I think it comes from our surroundings. For example: Worshipping the Sun, Praising the Rain, there's always going to be similarities that start off our historical nature, where we come from and where we are going. I like to explore places that I have never been and to do that, I have to take words in a very broad sense. I have to open up my mind to ideas that are not on the surface and use my imagination.
Quoting from history is a very specific nature. If I was sitting in a room of Historians, they would probably try to bury me because my image of history would not be the written word but my philosopy or what I feel I have learned from what I have read. That's why I say, knowledge is not something you know, it is something you behold. History is very straight forward but if you were not there, if you did not live it, there are certain facts that are missing. For example: You would not have read about what a poor man had done or what his ideas were but a rich man could have very easily taken his place and so this is history.
It's the same with mathematics. You could sit here and tell me the answer simply by telling me the mechanics but if i'm working on theoretical math of the future the answers may all soon change. So, even though we have spent all of this time teaching, the answers change, the ideas change, as does our future and this is what I am trying to explore but you have to respect history for what it was and maybe the more we can learn from it the more we can change.
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