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Faction Poll Results

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Berethrain, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    First, I'd like to ask for the faction poll thread I provided be locked with intention of moving forward from it without filling Uhall up with excessive faction threads.

    Second, I am unaware if anyone had submitted a bug report regarding point decay, so I have submitted one as of this morning and have asked for feedback from the Devs about the problem. Even so little as just to let us know that it's being looked at would be nice.

    Back to topic, after reviewing poll results I think it is important to move on and address each result in order but one at a time to get as much involvement per fix. After we get the ideas, we'll put the ideas for the particular issue to a poll and pick the best outcome. After that's complete, we'll move onto the next important issue from the poll.

    I ask that criticisms and ideas are kept to the single topic at hand in order to achieve the best results.

    That being said lets address the issue that seemed to be most popular in the thread.


    We're looking for ideas here and input.

    The obvious possible scenarios are:
    1. They leave faction gear as is.

    2. They remove gear from ranks system.

    A. If removed they can then either have no incentives for higher rank, or create new item/gear or incentive system for having higher rank and/or faction officers.
    B. Introduce penalty system using faction gear outside of factions. For example Slayers idea of introducing stat loss in trammel if you die to an monster in trammel. etc
    3. They can remove the extra mods from all faction gear and have them readily available to everyone in factions.

    4. They can have gear scaled with mods upon purchase. For example lower ranks have no extra mods, middle ranks have a few extra mods, higher ranks have the most mods for the gear. This would be achieved by purchasing the gear while you are that rank.

    5. Remove faction gear altogether.

    The more input the better. Lets get more ideas and discuss ones above.

  2. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    hi Berethrain, if only based on your faction Poll opened, the majority agreed changes to as following:-

    1st priority: remove rank requirement for faction artifacts
    2nd priority: enhance the sigils guarding purpose
    3rd priority: reduce the stat loss time

    For the 1st priority, I personally have already been suggesting this, because in Felucca, we are to encourage people to join factions and not trying to tell people to go in factions and work like a dog to maintain their artifacts. It comes into a boring routine which serves "0" purpose which eventually drive people out of the system.

    For the 2nd priority, which is also I have agreed the most "once the 1st priority" have been met. We should be focusing on the random events generator among factions controlled town, the purposes of guarding bases, etc... My idea have been proposed in other thread, I really don't want to recap here again, because people is whining that I speak too much.

    For the 3rd priority, it is not so important. But the idea could actually partially work with what I proposed. In Felucca you incur at 15-20mins stat loss. But in Trammel, you incur double the stat loss or triple the stat loss. This will greatly make people think twice before taking a faction character to Trammel for pvm.

    We should treat faction artifacts as a "Welcome" message to even new players to try out faction system. Of course, if they only change the rank requirement for faction artifacts, I am 100% sure the participation of factions will increase, but the problem is that it is not REAL, and long lasting. The system itself must enhance further to make the faction artifacts worthwhile as a Welcome message for everyone.

    English is not my main language, but as a faction player since beginning and UO player since 1997, I know clearly all the factions flaws and activities and participations throughout at least 3-4 shards.

    Sonoma, Formosa, Asuka, Mizuho, Hokuto.

    What I suggested is only wanting to see it that one day UO factions will be one of the key functions and community when people step a foot in Felucca (and maybe even involve into Trammel somedays in future). The idea I have proposed is based on Random events generator among controlled towns and fixed time Base guarding/raiding. Random events generator include events particularly designed for ALL types of players, whether it be (newbies, trammies, pvmers, crafters, scanvanger hunter, role players, pvpers, bards, tamers, etc.....) In order to trigger the random events generator, we encourage players to participate into guarding/raiding bases under fixed schedule.
    Don't Tread on Me likes this.
  3. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Sage Stratics Veteran

    I agree with Slayer here. Ranking faction items only makes it harder for faction participation, not easier. Only the elite PvP / zergs will have the top end items, or you have to go through a silly system of holding faction points on alt accounts of other factions to ensure you can keep your suit. Get rid of ranking for faction points, it's all ridiculous anyways and people will ALWAYS find a way to exploit whatever system is in place. I think sigil fights are the most fun thing I have done in UO. Chessy had a huge conflict last month... but it was keeping warhorses from the incoming zerg... of course eventually the new zerg got it and bam, sigil fighting over. It would be great to fight like that all the time. Harry's and spawns get old fast.

    Shorter stat loss would be great. 20 is a long time and limits faction fighting to bigger groups. 10 minutes would allow smaller groups to participate without super long wait times to rejoin. Plus, in 20 minutes, people tend to lose interest and log. 10 is short enough to keep most of the guilds interest to counter attack with some vengence. I'm done. Night everybody!
  4. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Sage Stratics Veteran

    Oh, I really like slayer's idea of double/triple stat loss for faction players in tram. LOVE IT! and make it so you can't do bene for faction players in tram just like in fel. That'll stop most the crazy trammie faction action right there.
  5. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    Just a question...why do you care what someone in trammel is doing with factions artifacts/gear. Does their somehow having it effect Faction PvP in fel?
    It seems to me that complaining about trammel factioners using artifacts was a major reason why the 0 pts factioners do not count implementation to counter this issue, which has borked the brackets and standings and resulted in all of the heartache with this publish.

    It seems with every "fix" for factions being introduced there is also an underlying fel vs. tram argument and "fix" also being pushed.

    Just wondering,
  6. kaio

    kaio Sage Stratics Veteran

    Faction artifacts was a huge mistake. I hope they get removed.
    Factions should never be about free gear. It should be about fighting for the faction your'e in.
    Raptor85 and Berethrain like this.
  7. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator Stratics Veteran

    I agree with this sentiment. As I see it, there are 2 options:

    1) Remove faction items in their entirety
    2) Remove rank requirements and let all factioneers have access to all faction arties upon purchase with silver.

    I do a lot of champs and I have no issue with those in factions using the gear. You are vulnerable to stat loss and fighting for champs is a valid form of fel interaction. But I also like to run peerless and SA bosses. I see no problem with using my suit with faction artifacts for this as the char does adventure in fel about 50% of the time.

    Again, my recommendation is to remove them entirely, but if they stay, dump the rank requirement outright for all faction arties.
  8. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    Again, I have been proposing the rank requirement to be removed totally from the factions.

    You see guys, the first incentive to join faction is to attract players into the system first with some benefits. Then afterwards, we provide everyone an opportunities to learn more about factions and pvp, that is why I have suggested random event generator as a 2nd step to enhance the gameplay for every single type of players whether it be trammie, pvm, etc...

    In reply to Lord Drago, I actually myself have no problem of anyone using the artifacts anywhere they go, but there are too many voices out there and sometimes they do make sense, because there are really peeps who join whole account of characters into faction then get the arties and go back to Trammel and never participate.

    In which, in order to try to solve the voice, I have proposed the double/triple stat loss incur in Trammel as a temporarily solution to this issue. But speaking of fact, if DEV is to follow the routine and steps to revamp our faction systems carefully, we won't even need to distinguish about Tram or Fel anymore. Because if not every single person, MAJORITY will also involved in the faction system because it will be main part of what UO is about.

    In which that is why I have propsed the steps as follow:-

    1. Remove the rank requirement for all faction artifacts, which is the first incentive of driving people to this sytem first
    2. Revamp the faction bases guarding/raiding into a FIXED schedule such as:-

    8pm Monday - TB base
    8pm Wed - Minax base
    8pm Thurs - CoM base
    8pm Sat - SL base

    3. Revamp how controlled town works. Controlled will have random events generated throughout the week. (in another word, it is important to acheive Step 2 in order to proceed on Step 3) .

    Random events would include different type such as:

    pvp event
    pvm event
    crafting event
    tamer event
    pvp tutorial event
    .... etc.. all of these which have scene surrounding the Faction scene.

    The key point is that random event generator provide random type of rewards, random type of quests, random type of locations. So basically, this could greatly provide usefulness scattered around the land of Sosaria.

    I have actually finished 1/10 parts of my faction revamp in my other thread, which I aint gonna post it again here like I said. If anyone is interested, can check it out in other threads and provide better opinions if possible.

    This project is very huge, in which some may think that I am just so stupid for typing so much because DEV wouldn't even care. But as a major fans of Factions since the beginning, I really don't want the system riot to hell and never be revived. That is why when I know Pub 75 is hurting factions participation, I stand out and give out my opinions right off the bat. Pub 75 is really hurting factions a lot, or you guys wouldn't be seeing multiple threads since the patch come in. Within the threads, there are people that say they will unsubscribe most of their accounts, which I have actually predicted after reviewing the patch notes back in Feb.
  9. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    Again Slayer I am thinking that as long as factions is all about artifacts then there is nothing left for saving. If folks don't want to do it for the sake of it being something fun to do there is no reason to have it. What factions needs is something that makes it more fun to do factions. Rewards for holding towns penalties for not hold any. Although I think that anything that attempts to set times is a complete waste of time as folks are on when they can be. I think the first thing they should do is work on fixing and revamping the bases. Then I think that the stat timer needs to go down to about 10 minutes. I personally think that they should either keep the brackets as they are or just remove arties altogether and come up with something else as a reward. Maybe the rank 10 folks should get a better warhorse or extra mana. Something that makes it worth their time.
    Jingles likes this.
  10. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I've given this a good deal of thought and after some consideration this is what I've decided.

    Factions is an organized pvp system. Through this system there have been many bugs and many problems that hasn't kept up with the pace of UO's evolution.
    The introduction of faction gear was an incentive system to entice players to both join factions and stay in factions to try to get the higher gear because the cost of replacing the equivalent gear with normal mods was a lot cheaper to do so. In many cases it's still cheaper and still a viable incentive (disregarding the recent patch).

    If the gear is equally distributed to everyone, it not only ruins value of some of the normal items (why would someone go to doom or spend 14m on an ornament of magician when they can just go hit a stone and pay a few thousand silver), it ruins any incentive to play factions or regular pvm. All you would have to do is join, grab the gear, and never have to participate in factions. There is no risk, little incentive, only rewards for joining and no rewards for participating.

    Think you can get a crimson cincture easier than achieving rank 4 in factions? By all means, be my guest and try peerless grinding for hours hoping to get lucky or spend the 18m to buy one.

    So in regards, the gear should be left as a rank incentive. It should not be freely distributed by removing rank requirements. Factions is not an atm for everyone have higher quality gear outside of the norm regardless of fairness.

    Right now fair would be wiping the points completely. That is the first priority, this balances the majoirty of the incentive system.

    They then need to expand the rank brackets or change it to a static points system. I'm more in favor of a static system at the moment but as all ideas need work and input.

    If they want to provide incentives, they need to initiate rewards for town corruption.

    This could be things like faction crafting incentives. Crafting in owned towns gives 20% exceptional bonus, items are given faction blessed status (costing silver), and increased imbue weight intensity of 100 (600 total). Etc.

    Vendors need to be updated. I'd like to see them start selling all types of wood, ingots, and leather. This would be a good gold sink. It'd be nice to see lower end ingredients and gems be several new vendor types.

    However I digress. In short, no rank removal for faction gear.
  11. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    A note too all participants... There are not many threads left to voice faction concerns here on the 'Hall. Choose your words carefully and at all costs avoid personal attacks. Discuss the ideas and theory, not the person.

    if some of you are curious as to my interest and involvement, I feel the the faction system as it was destroyed PvP on Siege. I will promise to explain my self with more depth this evening in my very first very blog. *chuckles* I
  12. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Kelmo, feel free to lock the prior faction poll thread to help eliminate the number of faction threads, it's run its usefullness and course.

    Look forward to hearing your reasoning and solution(s).
  13. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    I love the idea of adding in resource money sinks for faction vendors. Thats a great idea becuase if your factioning its not really a reasonable idea to expect you to mine like crazy. I think we should take it one step further and allow the selling of the special mining gems and some of the abyss minor special stuff. Kelmo blogging? Well I think there might only be that one seal left before the end of times.
    Berethrain likes this.
  14. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    Heh. I checked with Syrus. The "blog" is a feature of Stratics Pro. All Stratics member can read the blogs though. If I am gonna post a wall o' text, it should be optional reading material. Especially since it will have to do with the effect Factions has on Siege (in my opinion). That is something of little or no concern to the average faction player.
    Mirt likes this.
  15. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I was thinking the same thing, though the vendors should only be available to same faction members of the owned town. So no one else but those in the faction in the owned town can purchase from the vendor.
    Mirt likes this.
  16. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    I would like to see faction weapons, armor and tools created by faction crafters in faction towns on faction forges! *stares*
  17. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Same here, but it's coming up with a reward scenario that goes in line with current crafting system. Unless they'd want to come up with a seperate crafting/forging system. More in a bit, going for some lunch.
  18. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    I agree with your first paragraph here. However, I have some concerns about providing for additional types of faction vendors to sell the other types of woods, ingots, leather, and imbuing ingredients. I understand that on many of the North American shards, the vendor stalls in New Magincia are going unused. However, on Siege they ARE used a bit and are a great way for newcomers to the shard to sell these items. They also seem to be doing very well on the Japanese shards. I'd hate for something that actually seems to be allowing "poorer" players to successfully compete with Luna vendors on at least a few shards get cut off at the knees by yet another introduction to the game.

    EDITED TO ADD: Maybe if faction crafting were to get a boost, some new ingredients unique to that system could be added and made available on faction monsters and in very limited quantities on faction vendors. Needs more thought, I guess.
  19. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    Remember the faction strongholds that were on that special test center a year or two ago? They had places for crafting and also a banker right in the stronghold. I'm torn between whether that's the way to go or whether it's more desirable to have them doing the crafting in town. I think I lean more towards doing it in town. The banker NPCs in the strongholds just didn't hit me right for some reason.
    kelmo likes this.
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    The idea of a bank in a faction hideout is just wrong... Bring what ye can carry sure... But near unlimited supply in a base? *shakes head*
  21. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    How about useing only 2/3 the charges for reforging in a faction town that your faction controls on a faction crafter. It would require adding soul forges but I think that would be a great thing to add in. Of course it should also require that the runic not be insured but that could make things far more interesting and give some rewards for killing those crafters. :devil:
  22. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    Hehe. I was just telling a guildmate last week I was considering making stealth crafters for factions, either all new ones or buying a ton of soulstones and figuring out how to juggle things around on the ones I already have to get in hiding and stealthing so they could at least try to get in and out of the crafting areas undetected. Something makes me think factions is getting an overhaul and I'd sure like to be able to stay involved in it, even if it's just as a trap remover/detector/tracker/thief or a crafter, because my fighting skills leave much to be desired!
  23. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    That's a good point Tina, and I thought about that prior. What I had in mind was to make the pricing a little higher off the faction vendors. This would still leave room for those to make money off resources from harvesting while adding convenience to those who don't want to. As it stands now a lot of players do not harvest much resources leaving them pretty high on the North American shards. Seems higher than feasible. But I am hoping there are other scenarios around this. Though also, it might not be viable at all.

    As far as the banking system in faction strongholds, I hated that. That makes it a little too convenient for players in my opinion.

    Aside from this, Mirts suggestion is also feasible. In fact I'd like to see the reforging system use less charges since a lot of the better reforges require the higher runics with fewer charges.

    Something to ponder.

    Edited: Forgot to add the new faction vendors would have supply limits to also battle that problem.
  24. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Will someone explain the decay rate to me please.
    I had two characters with 12 points. One character logged on the next day with 3 points and the other with 5 points.
    I had one character with 16 points. This character logged on the next day with 15 points.
    Can anyone explain the rate of decay to me please?
  25. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    It's a botched decay rate. They didn't catch this on origin or test because of the lack of players and those with points.

    I've not had a problem with it yet but seems common. I sent a bug report in about it yesterday morning. No response yet.

    • Faction score now decays at a rate of 1% (rounded down) of score per day. Scores of 99 or below will have a scaling chance to decay 1 point per day. The closer the score is to 0 the smaller the chance is of having point decay.
    The error seems to be with scale system.
  26. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    So even though I did what I had to and "adapt" I still can't wear my gear?
    That's unbelievable..
    Not even a whimper from a dev about it either. Nice.
  27. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    Sorry you can't wear your artifact. Because your enemy have joined your faction with their thief and then steal the sigil for you and get the points while you're not online. This is another problem nobody is aware of :)

    This is what Pub 75 is intended, to encourage spies? LOL; new template = SPY

    Honestly, its pathetic, I see people crying here saying that faction arties are overpowered, but yet they want the system works so that the same type of people who abuse the system/ a nerd / top last killers the most to be able to wear it, whilst others should just forget about it. This kind of system never can drive majority of players to participate in.

    Since everyone doesn't know the meaning after they implemented "item based" = as important as "skill based", we should just wrap up factions and let it riot.

    Any kind of system that trying to differentiate the different level of people further will NOT help with the system. Will not help with the participation and will not be fun at all. Everyday you kill the same peeps over and over again without challenge because you're wearing different higher level sets of armours, while your opponents continue to wear their lower level sets of armours. You guys feel this is fair than everyone wearing the similar sets of armour.... my gooodnnesss... what else i can say?

    So the same logic applies to, the top pvpers should wear the strongest set of imbue/reforge, whilst the other lower pvpers should just wear GM crafted armour!!!!

    You know why when there are faction characters, you will still see some blues frequently hiding in guard zones waiting to backstab you? Where are those blues came from? Let me explain, those are the blues that are cowards, that are not able to get the faction artifacts, that are scared of stat loss, that are scared to get attacked everywhere, that understand fully they have no competition against the other faction players, so they decided to become a blue. The main point here I wanted to say is that, if the system is not to open incentive for at least these people, they wouldn't ever join into the system. I have been saying over about 10 times that the problem is not the faction artifacts, we should treat faction artifacts as the FIRST incentive to drive these people and even newbies into the system first. The SECOND approach is to focus on the guarding/raiding/controlling towns/random events (pvm,pvp,pvp tutorial, crafting, etc...) as the REAL incentive to let people play and adapt into the system.

    Forcing people to work under the system will never achieve the good outcome for the majority. It will ALWAYS only benefit the minority which created unbalance. When there is unbalance, people just quit the system and stay as a blue. It's the same honestly with imbue/reforge/SA artifacts., etc..

    Very simple example can be made:-

    There are 10 players (5%) who can play 24 hours UO every single day, which is called a nerd

    Then there are 490 players (95%) who can play 2 hours average UO every single day.

    So those 5% got all the top armour, and those 95% got different sets of armours. Well? Stand in the 95% perspectives, why they still need to participate into the system? For what? Any purpose at all? To get 20 mins stat loss? Or to look at the sigils for 10 hours? Buy resources from vendors?

    So once those 95% are tired of the system, they quit, we're left with the 5%.

    Now, those 5% would have to fight for the 1% of chance to get their top armour or else they will see themselves naked the next day. OH COME ON, this is not called a good system. NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE A GOOD SYSTEM when it forces people to become a nerd. This is a monthly subscriptions game, not a stupid free of charge game that require you to competete in leveling up the fastest of the shard... my god.


    Pub 75 in fine :), please keep as it is, we shall see no participations soon. I won't bother anymore, speaking of fact our guild already setted up our characters without the faction arties LOL. Please go ahead and and keep Pub 75.
  28. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    You make a good point, what are the points at for a thief at 10 per sigil? Or is it 1? I don't recall.

    As far as the rest of your post slayer, how is a pvp system unbalanced if 95% of the players who play 2 hours a day subjected to the same conditions. I would hope for the other 5% that played 24 hours a day would have some sort of advantage over the ones who only play 2, but that doesn't make it unbalanced.

    The incentives do need tweaked, but it really has nothing to do with faction gear making it unbalanced.
  29. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    It's 10 points per sigil.
    Which makes ~140 points per week.
    On shards such as mine where there is no faction action...
    Well it doesn't really matter does it? I mean look at how the decay works. It's impossible to keep rank regardless.
  30. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    This system has been ruined and bugged since 2008. We all heard of the shards and players abusing the system... No one. Not one Dev team has really stepped up to the plate and said, "This is wrong." Until now.

    Yes. I kinda take the bugged, broken and poorly thought out faction system personally. I do realize I am in an apple/orange conversation... Yet I live in a land of peaches.

    Important systems such as Factions impact my play in ways many do not understand. I know I am hearing a lot of Pfffts right now. That is fine. I don't wanna argue that issue. I can never win that one. Too many of you. I started to write some thoughts on this and decided to do some research... there is a whole lot of wrong with Factions now.

    I know a lot of what I say about factions seems to come from left field. I play in left field.
  31. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Point decay right now seems so completely arbitrary that anyone saying the "new and improved" publish 75 system is better obviously doesn't play factions.

    To get absolute silence on the issue is like saying "We don't care" from the dev team.

    I realize your game was ruined a long time ago kelmo, but just because my game is ruined doesn't mean I want to wish it on anyone else. It doesn't make me feel good to say "see what I have been going through?!?" to people. Truth of the matter is, if the issue was just mine I'd still bitch and complain about it, but I wouldn't be as disappointed as I am when I see the world-wide issue isn't being addressed. Something that is ruining gameplay for everyone.
    Does Mesanna still work for UO? I thought she really cared. Maybe not so much anymore? I'm confused by the lack of conversation regarding this... or even acknowledgement. How about a dev saying "It is what it is. Deal with it." Something.
  32. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    Hi Berethrain, I think you've misunderstood the post. UO is not a levelling up game, even levelling up game got a cap and eventually have the best possible armour for everyone in the end and stop right there.

    UO is a game based on skill points. Everyone had the same whether they work 2 hours a day or 24 hours a day in UO, they will still eventually acheive their 120 skill points of their desired template.

    The outcome determines on the player pvp skills, connections, real life luck, etc.. Even we give a newbie who can play UO 24 hours the best possible armour, he still couldnt defeat a pro with naked 44/44/44/44/44 resist across the board.

    The way to encourage faction participations shouldnt be too focussed on asking people to MAINTAIN kill points to wear artifacts, or just to imbue a set and join factions. Who will imbue the full set of armor and join factions? Will you? I definately wont. But again, if templates are lesser in faction, the participation rate declines, this is truly a fact that everyone has to be aware of.

    There are tons of things which you could work your arse hard to get over advantage of others in UO:-

    1. power scrolls
    2. stat scrolls
    3. SA artifacts / doom artifacts, etc..

    The above all are designed for power gamers, I wouldn't come here and say, ITS NOT FAIR that they can play UO 24 hours so they can get all the items of the above. But UO factions is totally different, because you can have many ways to make your points up even in this patch and its sounds very stupid because when your own faction players / spies are doing the exact same thing, this just goes into endless. The purpose of playing faction is then to maintain the highest kill points or switch armour, otherwise will have risk to drop armour? This doesn't make sense at all.

    I have mentioned already, it will destroy faction under Rank Requirement for faction artifacts, because faction artifacts shouldn't be a FORCE requirement for everyone, it should be treated an INCENTIVE for everyone to participate into the system. You gotta know that even the "POLL result" you've made have agreed majority aroudn 50% to remove rank requirement for faction artifacts that will improve the participation. With 50% of people voiced, you still couldnt agree to this fact?

    PVP is PVP. We need to seek a more fair condition for everyone. We can't say, because you have no friends, so you shouldnt be in faction. We cant say, because you dont play UO much, so you dont need to be in faction. Because that's what Pub 75 is telling us. If you dont have either of the above, you cannot get any benefit from factions and is best to just quit it. So again, this is called fixing factions and not destroying?

    Please keep in mind, the MAIN purpose is to keep factions alive, and not to focus too much care about faction artifacts.
  33. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    hi Kelmo, care to share what is ruined and bugged since 2008 for factions? :)
  34. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    How many faction points did you have last month? Now about yer enemies? How many points did they have?

    Could some join factions and "juice" the points and wear 'faction' artifacts in an instanced dungeon outside of Felucca? Did faction points ever wear off?

    For next to nothing a faction member could own and insure the most powerful artifacts in the game and never have to look back. Ever.

    It is not about factions, teamwork, planning or "skills"... just items. Farming points and items.

    The points were farmed. Everyone was rank 10? Really?

    When was the last time you were in the faction base? Just asking. Be honest.

    Is a faction thief part of your guild, or you just do that yourself? Where are the faction traps in your crew located?

    Where are all the faction guards located? What faction is still in a town?

    Which base can you still get inside of using a gate spell?

    Which base can you jump on the wall in?

    What base can dragons fight though the floors in?

    How many candelabras can you fit in a box?

    How many suicide runs does it take to distract from the real thief?

    Mouse holes? What?

    What is the perfect way to cast a field and how did I get the nickname wrong-way?

    Who can place a faction trap? Why can they place it where they place it?

    Faction vendors? Are they equal? Can any faction crew place them and use them equally?

    My short list... There are other quirks...
    Raptor85 likes this.
  35. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    No I couldn't agree. There are too many negative aspects with even thinking about allowing everyone to have the gear for free. You ruin both factions and pvm without ever having accomplished anything but distributing higher quality gear for free. The twenty something votes just demonstrated how little people want to actually play UO to remain competitive.

    Let's take your view on giving everyone faction gear for free so they can just jump in and play with higher quality gear and apply it to skills. If this is the case, then all skills should be given their highest point equivalent so people can just jump in and play without ever having to put any effort into it.

    Working skills and PVM for items has always been part of the game. It's not unbalanced or unfair because someone else doesn't want to put the effort in to get the better items or work the skills. Everyone has the same opportunity to do so. Getting better gear is also the incentive to PVM. You take that away by giving away the gear to people just so it's "fair" and then you lose the entire point of playing the game.

    If you just want to jump in and play with no effort, I'd suggest people go to Test Center and play.
  36. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    That's not fair. I've put lots of effort into my characters. All of them. I should be able to "jump in and play" because I've done this already.
    I understand your PoV, and I agree Slayer8888 has gone overboard with his attacks on people who don't agree with him, but let's be honest. Many of us have played and adapted for years. I even tried to adapt to this. Got points (Just so I could wear level 7 item Primer). The next day they were gone again. What's the point of even trying?
    I'll go ahead and go to the library and buy the damn primer, but I did try to adapt. I feel like I have the right to complain. I already resuited my mages. It's just frustrating, and frustrating isn't fun.
    Mirt, Viper09 and kelmo like this.
  37. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way Professional Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    Yes Flutter. None of this is fair. That is one thing I can agree with. It was not fair back in 2008, Hardly fair 4 years later when someone decides to fix all the bugs... Bugs that have seemed like features.
  38. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Maybe they should just open factions to all facets and make armor available to all or lower the requirements for them *takes cover and hides*
    Personally faction armor shouldn't be seen as required to PvP, just optional.
    While at the same time giving factions a long overdue overhaul so it's a bit more meaningful to fight/defend sigils.
  39. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Well no, it isn't fair to those who have already put in the effort. It's not fair because those who abused the system remained on top after the patch. The decay system isn't functioning correctly and the ranking system is more skewed than ever. That is the problem with the patch, not because everyone isn't getting the same gear for free.

    However, the point is aimed at those wanting the rank requirements removed so they can wear all the gear with no effort, not to those who put in the effort already to get the gear.

  40. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    How many faction points did you have last month? Now about yer enemies? How many points did they have?
    last month
    -Asuka, 1 char as 2100 mil, 1 char as 1200mil, 1 char as 800 mil, my enemies are around the range of 300 mil to 1500 mil.
    -Formosa, 1 char as around 60-70 points, majority of chars as 8-9 points with some in 3-5 points (Rank 7-10), my enemies also similar range
    this month
    -Asuka, 1 char as 2xx points, 1 char as 180pts, 1 char as 165 pts, my enemies doesnt even show up
    -Formosa, 1 char as 7 points, majority of chars have 1 points left (Rank 3 or less), my enemies also similar range but some of them become TB member same as us :), welcome spy to the team for Pub 75!

    Could some join factions and "juice" the points and wear 'faction' artifacts in an instanced dungeon outside of Felucca? Did faction points ever wear off?
    -Asuka, faction points never wear off for me unless I die more than 10 times a night, which is not possible. My average die rate based on participation in pvp 3-4 hours every single night, my average death rate is 1 week per once. For last kills, hard to have a certain numbers.
    -Formosa, faction points have wear off for me and we are frequently guarding sigils for the 70 pts, its not fun and its boring task, but as a faction lover, that's the only way. But doing it doesnt mean this system is correct.

    For next to nothing a faction member could own and insure the most powerful artifacts in the game and never have to look back. Ever.
    -Next to nothing? Never look back? You talking about trammies right? Supposely, I dont give a dang crap about trammies wearing artifacts in trammel, but then since you guys like to whine, I have already suggested my proposal? You haven't read it right?

    It is not about factions, teamwork, planning or "skills"... just items. Farming points and items.
    -Since item based game comes in, I thought the focus has been on items for everyone isnt it? You go to an EM to do what? To play and not WANTING any reward? You just WANT to go and play without reward? IS IT TRUE? Can I have your money please since you only like to play the game and not care any items. Can I have your suit of armour please? Thanks!

    The points were farmed. Everyone was rank 10? Really?
    -Everyone was rank 10? I don't know. But based on ASuka and Formosa. Not everyone was Rank 10, but no one bitched because at least they could still wear some rank 4, rank 7 items and not need to worry about dropping armour EVERY SINGLE day like now. Yes Really.

    When was the last time you were in the faction base? Just asking. Be honest.
    -When was the last time I am in faction base? Just now! I had a pvp fight of 1 v 4, then 2 v 5, and 3 v 5, as we being the 3. I had a 1 v 4 time just now and kicked 2 of my enemies butt. Please refer to below photos:-
    The time in Hong Kong now is 1:30pm and I had the war just around 1-2hour ago or so.



    Is a faction thief part of your guild, or you just do that yourself? Where are the faction traps in your crew located?

    Without faction thieves how do we steal sigils in the past ZzZz. We place normally few poison traps and factions is so BUGGED that our enemy spy in TB can place 15 traps for us hidden somewhere in our controlled towns.. good job how the stupid weak faction system is in which they now further break it.

    Where are all the faction guards located? What faction is still in a town?

    Faction guards? We place some once inawhile in Britain, when our enemies control Britain, they do the same to us. Our main enemy is Minax and some in CoM. For Asuka, all sorts of factions participate and war are occured major in Serpent Holds, fire dungeon (with the coward blues which I have taken photos the first day after Pub 75 goes in, because no one is using faction characters!)

    Which base can you still get inside of using a gate spell?

    Huh? I am not interested to learn about bugs or whatever. We use our human force to push in enemy base, whether fail we die or success we kill. Simple as that. Keep it simple.

    Which base can you jump on the wall in?

    Same as above, I am not interested to know and not necessary to know.

    What base can dragons fight though the floors in?

    I am lost on your point for this. Our enemies put ballbags, candelbras and 3 tamers inside their stronghold for guarding (minax base), so i dont know if this answers your questions?

    How many candelabras can you fit in a box?

    Don't ask me these type of questions. 1 candelabras have 3 stones, so you calculate it yourself.

    How many suicide runs does it take to distract from the real thief?

    Suicide run? Like I said, I raid the base and guard the base with human force, I dont need suicide run for a real thief. Its either we die, or they die and we steal out all sigils. As for our cheap arse enemies, they logged off thief inside our base (as u should know TB base is huge right?), and they reset our sigils without we even notice.... yea dont try to tell me to look at the sigils non stop for 10 hours straight, its a stupid system, but we still do it once inawhile.

    Mouse holes? What?

    Again, please dont discuss about this with me, I never used.

    What is the perfect way to cast a field and how did I get the nickname wrong-way?

    Perfect way to cast a field, you come over to Asuka or Formosa, I dont mind to teach you how.

    Who can place a faction trap? Why can they place it where they place it?

    Anyone can place a faction trap. They just need to use 250 silvers and some ingots and some other gear based on which type you want to make. Once you got the deed, just place it to your stronghold and then to your controlled towns... duh... this question, you also need to ask me? WTF

    Faction vendors? Are they equal? Can any faction crew place them and use them equally?

    Faction vendors, LOL i havent cared about faction vendors for decay. As mentioned, faction system is bored, what its good is that we can log in every night and then go right ahead to Serpent Hold (in asuka), Minax base/TB base/Despise/ etc.... (in Formosa) to find oranges to fight. But now this seems to become a cowardice actions by our enemy recently. He knows that I am the only person here so they call in 4 peeps trying to kill me, ended up 2 of them got killed by me. Then when they know we had 2 people, they call in 1 more folk making it 2 v 5. Oh well in the end they stole the 3 sigils from our base about 1 hour ago but they have a death rate of 5 times total (with 2 players having the death rate of 2 each)

    Anyhow, did I answer your question, are you satisfied?
  41. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    Oh, so when you vote for your country president, the highest vote is to A. Then you say, there are many negative aspects for A.

    How does it ruin factions and pvm under my proposal?

    Please note, I didnt tell factions to remove rank requirements only.

    I SAID, remove rank requirement first then proceed with 2nd steps with restrictions put in TRAMMEL ruleset..

    GEEZZZ.. after all these time, why you guys can still twist my idea and proposal.. ZzzZZ
  42. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    The decay being off is a huge problem that needs to be fixed. If you earned points they should not just randomly disappear the day after you got them. I am sorry to hear that this bug is getting you and I hope that the devs chime in with something on getting the decay right or maybe temporarily turning the decay rate off.
  43. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I'm not sure what your point is Slayer, just because something receives a majority vote doesn't mean I'd agree with it. Unless you're telling me that everyone should agree if it receives the majority? This being said, I didn't vote for the rank removal.

    It wouldn't matter if you introduced stats in trammel for wearing the gear, people would still be getting it without putting effort ino it.
  44. archite666

    archite666 Guest

    Add in more ways to get points.
  45. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    What did you have in mind archite? Points for "assists"?
  46. Cetric

    Cetric Crazed Zealot Stratics Veteran

    That didn't work out so well the previous time (tried on that faction shard with the HORRIBLE bases) where you were awarded points for healing, assists, etc.
  47. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Yeah i remember but i didnt mean for giving points for the rest of the crap, strictly damage. But I dont care for the idea, just wondering what he had in mind.
  48. CovenantX

    CovenantX Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    So this is a bit off topic, but with the recent changes to factions I have taken a guild out of factions by leaving it with the guildmaster, and now that everyone is out of factions, every member of the guild still receives a Minax Faction robe upon login EVERY TIME they log in even though they are no longer in factions. it's quite annoying. [Bug]

    I would like to see factions return someday as a sort of "quick" setup for pvp across shards. it would only work if the artifacts were only usable in fel and 100% useless in tram-rule-set facets.
  49. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper

    No point being made. Just telling you that the majority agree to what I've said.

    But as mentioned, I not only focussed on "Remove rank requirement for faction artifacts"

    The restrictions I put forth in Trammel, not only have the STAT LOSS. I have actually other proposals for the restrictions:-
    1. when entering trammel, all faction arties will be unequipped
    2. upon entering several area in trammel (such as champ, doom, etc..), the faction arties will be unequipped
    3. all bonus are lost for the faction arties upon entering trammel ruleset
    4. faction arties become cursed once entering trammel ruleset

    DONT TELL ME all of these above still would drive trammies to bother even to take the armour without effort.

    Moreover, asides from suggesting remove rank requirement, I have proposed further revamp of the faction system to encourage majority of players. I personally dont want to distinguish different level of players and put a STOP SIGN on people who cant compete. I think that in order to run a system good, we should open a wide range which allow every single players the opportunities to play in it. That is the reason I have in my 1/10 of my proposal about random events generator among factions controlled towns.

    I hope you would read carefully all of my proposals before you start argue with my points. Not by just 1 point and then start disagree with me.
  50. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Basing arguments off that poll seems kind pointless, wouldn't exactly say there were many participants and the highest picked option only had 26 votes. The options were also very vague; there was really only one option that included anything about armor and all it had for the description was removal of requirements to obtain it. It said nothing about anything else you were suggesting slayer so stop trying to claim credit for people agreeing with your ideas or anything you've said based off of that poll. If you were to edit that option to include your ideas you can't assume the results would be the same. You just need to accept the fact that not everything is going to agree with you on this regardless of how many times you keep posting.

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