Seriously? My mage tamers wear a mostly straight 70's suit, 100+ lrc, 40+ lmc, 8-11 MR suits. The worst is 115 magery, the others 120, all have 120 eval. To think that any of them are lacking in strength and/or survivablitity WITHOUT a pet is hilarious...c'mon, man, they're basically legendary mages. Oh, and they have a 900+HP firebreathing tank with them. Yep..they're weak and defenseless lol.
seriously? did you even read his post? his point was that tamers need gear too and GD's are not an "I win" button in PvM. you essentially made the exact same point you thought you were countering. RIF
Did YOU read his post? That's the most inaccurate interpretation I've seen in quite some time lol. Perhaps reading ALL of his posts would help you out. The point he was trying to make was tamers are comparitively weak because it was the nature of their template. They put all their effort into keeping their pet alive with little concern for themselves. The gdrag was their only "real" option to fight high end content. I countered with the fact that most tamers I know are hardly weak templates. The comments I, and others, have made is relative to this line of thinking that 1.) tamers could never do high end content before gdrags, 2.) that this nerf makes gdrags essentially useless, and 3.) tamers have weak templates relative to warriors, and that any warrior can solo high end content.
that's right Aibal, his post was not about gear. and last I checked, the suit you posted isn't crappy
And how many warriors in crappy suits are doing Peerless' Scarab? Bottom line, if you want to work high end stuff on ANY type of character, you need better equipment. Duh. Most tamers soloing high end stuff with a gdrag have a good suit, good skills, and a ton of experience. They didn't just pop in game, tame a gdrag, and go to killing them, so why is the whining about gear/nerfs etc even going on? This nerf has not affected my guildies efforts to do Peerless, and from my own experience with a good tamer I haven't noticed anything other than a slightly longer time to solo some things. By your admission, you're a soloist, and probably quite experienced with good gear...I don't see you having any issues with it. With all that said, I AM glad they were nerfed...even now they are still incredibly powerful, even in PvM, and I have difficulty seeing how it can be argued that they all of the sudden suck. Sorry, I ain't buying. I take pride in my tamers, in their pets, skills, and my abilities with them. It's nice to see that isn't simply "all kill" now, with a bunch of noobs thinking they're good tamers. Excuse me if I like to see a little skill utilized in the template rather than a flat out overpowered tank.
I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll add my two cents, and if it is just a repeat, I beg forgiveness. The strength of a greater dragon has never been it's damage output anyway. The strength of a greater dragon is it's ability to withstand damage, and that hasn't been changed, unless I missed something. There are a number of other pet combinations that have a far higher dps than a greater dragon. Even in pvp, the greater dragon's strength wasn't it's ability to take out players, it was it's ability to take out other pets. The only thing that is sad about this is that those with emotionally strong, but logically flawed arguments, have won the day. There are a number of templates that did just about anything faster and easier than a tamer with a greater dragon, before the change. Greater dragons are extremely effective against low to high mid level content (or low high level content - your choice), but when it comes to high end content, they are almost always a weak choice, and the devs have made damned sure that they have remained that way with bosses that make tamed pets go wild, or do insane amounts of damage against pets.
We can agree to disagree on this. There is also the play style that capitalizes on the combined Defensive Capability of the Greater Dragon and the Offensive Capabilities of the Greater Dragon. As opposed to a one or the other capability. The PvM Play style that suffer the most under this ... well nerf are those that tend to Solo towards the higher end Mob's. The penalty they now pay is two fold. First the Greater Dragon may not be able to effectively close the encounter. When they nerf'd the Greater Dragons movement to facilitate PvP they let it bleed on over to PvM. Couple that with the DPS Nerf and you get the case, more likely the higher the mob is, that they can just walk away from the Greater Dragon and heal themselves back up. Now this is about the time the argument comes in that the TAMERS/Group (remember this is SOLO PLAY STYLE) is supposed to be doing the DPS and if they are not then they shouldn't be playing the game (aka play my way or hit the highway). Secondly, when the Mob walks away they may very well walk into a group of peers, near peers or overwhelming numbers. Making things just go to hades in a hand cart real quick.
Nope. Here are original nerf details, as posted by Draconi: Greater Dragon Nerf 1.0: * Damage cap of 130 (Melee and Breath Attacks) * Special attack change 10%, instead of 20% * Special attacks fire no more than once every 30 seconds * Breath fires no more than once per 45 seconds * Breath and special attacks will never fire less than 15 seconds apart * Tamers which are hidden and flagged aggressor against another player will be revealed when their dragon breath attack hits the player http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=155973
Yes they nerfed the GD movement well before they did this latest nerf. The PvP crowd whined incessantly about how they could not get away from the Greater Dragons so they reduced the movement speed. Or in short they were not part of the same Nerf Package. Some one seemed to be suggesting that the Cu just got hit with the Movement nerf. Just gotta love cycles.
Just as a test, I ran around with my dragon last night, and he was able to keep up with me when I was running at top speed. Compare that to a pack beetle, the dragon is much faster. Maybe they don't move as fast when they aren't following, but based on just that I'm not noticing any difference in movement.
Ah then let us just accept we have a difference of opinions/perceptions, that may be based on differences in play style and move on.
BUT I CAN'T JUST MOVE ON!!!! But seriously, there was a movement nerf around two years ago now, where they fixed whatever it was that was causing the "pounce" effect that pets often had when you used the all kill command. Is that what you are referring to?
Well, if you want folks to believe in this movement nerf, info/evidence is the best place to start. If you don't want to spill any beans, why should anyone keep playing your guessing game? Wenchy
Careful Wenchy, you're going to provoke a response with a whirlwind of random capitalized words and mumbo jumbo about perceptions and truth.
It is opinion, unsupported by a single shred of evidence or facts, that leads some folks to believe the developers have been subversive in their nerfing of greater dragons. They will spew this bs relentlessly. When called on it, they will turn, run and claim to be oppressed by others who don't understand their "play style". What a joke.
hatesphere i want to make babies with you and eat them. no seriously, he's right about the big picture. we have all nerfed in way oir another. pub 16? yeah its like that. i personally play a bard/tamer, weaver/necro/tamer a sampire or vampurai as i call it. i also have all the trade skills. i have played for 11 years and no matter what they do to this game besides shut it down. they will not break me, i havent been in a guild in 6 years. i do everything myself and am entirley self sufficient. i see it the nerfs and a way to make you stronger, and rethink your stratedgy. afteralll, did caesar,napoleon,alexander, and bobby orr use the same plan everytime?
Can I get some insight on this post since it's been months now, how is everyone liking the greater dragons now? I have a dread Warhorse, fully trained will the dread and a mare or dread and bake kitsune dish out more damage then the greater dragon? Is the greater dragon just a tank or meat shield now that does mediocre damage? What does everyone think?
A dread and a nightmare will dish out more damage than a greater dragon, a rune beetle and a nightmare will dish out more damage than a greater dragon, in fact just about any reasonable combination of pets will dish out more damage than a greater dragon. Yes, I would say the primary usefulness of a greater dragon is in being a tank or a meatshield, but this has been true since day one. It just became even more true when their damage was capped. Greater dragons have their uses, but if it is pvp you are interested in, greater dragons are a pretty poor choice for pvp in most contexts. And even in pvm, in most contexts there are better choices of pets or pet combinations than a greater dragon.
What if its PvM im looking for, could you use a dread + mare or dread + bake combo to do lady mel or would you even be able to with the greater drags but take longer? How come greater drags with good rating on the pet calculator sell for so much if there really just good for being a tank or meat shield? Are dread warhorses good for anything other then pvp? Also, what would be the best combo to dish out the most dps in pvm regardless of control slots (as long as it equals 5 control slots or less).
Well, when it comes to specific high end pvm contexts, someone else would probably do a better job at answering questions. However, what makes greater dragons special is they are much easier to keep alive than other pets. For Lady Mel specifically there are lots of add on spawn that you have to kill as well, and they would probably overwhelm a less hardy pet pretty quickly. I'm not sure if it would be possible to keep, for example, a rune beetle and mare combination alive, but I've heard that rune beetles do quite well against Dread Horn. Greater dragons are for tamers with weak healing capabilities, or for lazy tamers. I know that sounds negative, and I don't mean it necessarily as an insult. The point is simply that greater dragons are easier to keep alive, but if you want to kill as fast and efficiently as possible, there are almost always better pet combination choices.
I'd say dread and mare if anything. I'm not a big fan of bakes. Their stats look great but there is something that we don't see that makes them pretty soft targets. Their dps doesn't match the nightmare's and you really want to be mounted on your weaker pet if you are using two pets. You want to take the stronger pet out of the stable first, and mount the weaker. You don't want mobs targeting your weaker pet.
The highest dps combo of pets in pvm with 5 control slots is now and always has been a pack of frenzies, likewise a pack of hell hounds is there pvp counterpart. "just answering what i assume was a question from a above poster" On this same note does anyone know how much discords new spell lowers physical resistance in pvp? I am now worried about a frenzy nerf if it's alot.
This is true, however, packs are so hard to keep alive that they are seldom practically useful. I'd say the pet combination with the highest dps and reasonable survivability is the rune beetle and nightmare combination.
From today's patch notes: •Fixed an issue with Greater Dragons being tamed under the effects of a buff or debuff Does anyone know what this is referring to? Or is it just referring to discord/curse taming a GD for extra hp.
Ah I didn't catch that. I think it's pretty clear that that fix targets "curse taming" and that particular tactic will no longer work. The devs were aware of it, and I had asked them specifically about it, and my guess is they didn't answer me because they were working on a fix and they didn't want people knowing and going out and taming hundreds of dragons using this tactic before the fix was implemented.
Hmm, I wonder if they've fixed curse taming for other pets too, or just GDs. I guess the price of the top end GDs just went up a bit Wenchy
I would think if it was fixed for greater dragons it would have been fixed for all the pets that use the same function. But of course, you never know. You would have thought if they made apples generic, they would have done the same thing with the grapes of wrath, but they didn't...
Can't blame it on popps. Several people reported it as an exploit and I had actually posted a question to the Ask the Devs forum to find out whether it was officially considered an exploit or not. It appears that the answer to that question was "yes"...
Aye, I just thought it was funny to mention that fix specifically naming greater drags if they'd fixed all critters. Guess we'll soon see which it is heh. Wenchy
Didn't you know that greater dragons are the all inclusive symbol and archetype for all the evils wrought upon the worlds of Sosaria by the vile and venomous tamer horde? To say "greater dragon" is to conjure the spectres of rabbits and nightmares, sheep and cu sidhe, hiryus and squirrels!
LOL! I'm still waiting to login and find they've all been turned into frogs. Nearly Halloween though, there's still hope... Wenchy
I just tested curse taming on a cu sidhe (not one I was going to keep) and it still works. It makes me wonder if maybe the exploit that was fixed for greater dragons wasn't curse taming?
The damage caps, time limits for breath and special attack affect PvP only(as has been the case since its inception last year). Non-PvP combat damage output from the GD's have not been reduced.
If your going for curse taming be sure to cast arcane empowerment on yourself and then evil omen/curse your critter to get the max effect.
Just out of interest, what's the benefit of curse taming ? (beyond the obvious reducing the pet's stats)
Higher hit points and higher stamina. But you will also have lower str, so it's a bit of a trade off. It also only works for tameables that have stats halved after taming (cu sidhe, hiryu, lesser hiryu, reptalon, greater dragon).
