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Discussion in 'UHall' started by darkvulf, Apr 14, 2012.
wtf is the hold up?
They arnt interested?
Apparently it does
dont need fixed, if you havent gotten off your ass and built new suits in a month, whos the silly looking one now?
Are the ranks actually broken, or is the new "fixed" something you do not like? Those are very different things.
He just doesnt like that his armor isnt handed to him so easily now
as far as i know they are working as intended just not liked by the lesser ranked poeple
yeah i gave factions up, now i just kill those who are in factions and are red. Its even better now...no stat loss when i die
No, it's not working as intended. Certainly not on low population shards.
just play the game for god sake. Tired of seeing faction threads.
It doesn't concern you so you don't care right?
So the same could be said about the "all release" option you've been harping on since you got on these forums.
I didn't even see this post.
Regardless of suits, shouldn't ranks work properly for those who want to play factions?
what's broken in them? it seems working as intended....the players with the highest score are rank 10, everyone else ranked below based on how your score fits up to the highest. If there's some bug on your shard and for some reason players with higher scores are not ranking up post in the bugs forum below.
Please read my posts in the other threads.
hold on, someone call the wambulance ! No more free rides with the supposed previously BROKEN faction system! Wait no, I have a better idea... Farm for these shiny round golden things.... Earn enough of these round golden things, and take your lazy asses to a blacksmith and buy armor. Good luck getting your wish Flutter, maybe if you beg for a year like I did for mine then it will come true (woudln't hold my breath). This game is how old now? If you seriously can't put together a NON FACTION suit or suit that doesn't require faction artifacts then, oh well...
Again... its not about the suits anymore. The faction system doesn't work properly. Regardless of faction gear the game should work as it is intended to.
Flutter, whether I agree with you or not is beside the point. I don't think you or anyone out there (me included) could count the number of issues with this game since launch. It must not be that game breaking though considering we are still playing?
Open your eyes. Lots of people aren't "still playing".
good luck gettin your problem resolved... I gotta do some work while im still at work irl.
You should hang your head in shame, poking fun at those who are less able and have disabilities is a sign poor character in a person. There was no need to make remarks like that, and it totally ruins any argument you may have had and just brings your post down to the troll level.
Shame on you!
You're correct Flutter, i for one gave up on factions when they made this change
After 15 years..I and many others have "given up" to the point where several hundred accounts are now perm shutdown. This Dev team will be remembered as the one who ...well..guess it really doesn't matter anymore.
It's still not clear to me if things are actually not working as intended or if things are working as intended and folks are merely using "this harms me" as the standard for "not working as intended."
The latter's far from without precedent on Stratics.
If it is working as intended its a bad system. It simply rewards powergamer elieteist(sp?). I would have no problem holding rank on 1 shard but I play many shards and simply cant hold rank on them all. My "easy" suits came at the expense of stat loss which was worth it for me and many like me before but simply isnt anymore.
I've already explained several times how we have tested the rank system and it is broken. The long and the short of it is, if you get enough points so that you will rank up at the next cycle, you most certainly will lose enough of those points due to "decay" that it is impossible to rank up on low population shards. It's not that no one can wear their armor, everyone is long past that and has either quit or made new suits. It's that the system is not functioning in a way that makes factions playable or fun. And this, I'm positive, is unintended.
You should be aware of the potential differences between a system that you do not like, and a system that is broken. A system can be working as intended and can still not meet your particular needs, or just flat-out be a bad system. It often has frustrated me in the past when team members do not seem to recognize that difference (we say: "this is a bad idea," they say: "it's working as intended," as though that answered our concern), so I argue we should also recognize such.
In this case, based on your post (the only information I currently have on this issue), the accurate way to phrase it seems to be: The new system is extremely problematic on smaller shards, where points are harder to come by.
Three questions do occur to me, though. Firstly, if it's not about access to the Artifacts, then what is it about? What difference does rank make in Factions these days aside from ability to get the Artifacts? Is it just the frustration of seeing point farmers and exploiters run the system? And if so where was all this frustration when point farmers and exploiters ran the older system as well? (Which they surely did.) Secondly, if it's as obvious as you say it is, why do others of a similar ilk in this very thread appear to not agree? Thirdly, were you the one who raised a Faction bug issue with the Producer on Twitter, actually got a response, only to decline to answer when he asked for greater specificity ("what specific bug are you referring too?")?
You had not done so in this particular thread until now. Assuming that readers do, or should, habitually read your posts is a potentially effective tactic. I've used it too. The difference, however, is that I fully recognize that a tactic is all it is, whereas you appear to be sincere in the assumption that all do read your posts or, if they don't, they surely should. I, for one, do not see the need to habitually read your posts. You loathe things in the game in general in about the same alarmingly high percentage you once loved things in the game in general, and neither extreme is terribly useful to me.
So, thank you for finally specifying the problem in your seventh post in this thread.
If you are on a smaller shard the issue that the point change made is as follows:
Day before point change everything is fine. Lots(relative) of people to fight and points are traded around as people kill and get killed. There isn't a issue with maintaining rank as you only need 10-150 dependant upon shard.
Day after change. Every player has lost the ablity to use the current suit they had as the player does not have the rank to use the higher stuff, even rank four if they were ten the day before. This causes a issue in that people struggle to use these chars and then play them less thus causing the amount of people/chars to kill and be killed to be reduced leaving us with the issue of one needing to cycle 6 people before you can grab points from your last victory. Without a constant cycle of 30+ people/chars out in the fight you cannot maintain rank because there just isn't enough people left because thier suits are ruined, moral is reduced and the confusion is to high to find a work around.
I'm not sure if this is as clear as it could be but this is the true problem. There are no cross sharding people to boost the server and the reduced daily player count only makes it worse. Atl might work but I find it hard to believe that the rest are doing fine.
If people pipe up to "argue" a point with me without educating themselves about what it is I am talking about, yes I do feel the need to state that I have already voiced my concerns multiple times in other threads. Repeating myself over and over isn't terribly useful to me.
If you don't understand "what difference" faction rank makes then I don't really know what to say. It's supposed to be a ranking system. It isn't ranking properly. Why do I care? Because it was a fun part of the game for myself (and others).
If someone has brought the bug to the producer on twitter and he asked "which bug" that says to me that there are several bugs with the system in question. At least, that's the way I read it. Hopefully they are aware of them all.
I do not "loathe things in the game" and I am sorry if reading my posts has made you think that.
You do enjoy arguing with me Galen, although I am not sure why. If it doesn't concern you and you don't really care, why not just move along? My opinions mean little to nothing to you, and my desires for faction fixes wouldn't change your game play in the least. For someone who doesn't habitually read my posts you do tend to habitually try to start an argument with me more than anyone else on these forums.
Thank you for bumping this post back up to the top giving it a better chance of being seen by developers. Hopefully a fix will come soon and it will revive a few shards faction fighting.
Not just this.
Upon successfully stealing the sigils for a faction a thief will have 70 points.
These 70 points are given to character(s) (read: 1-5 characters).
The next time the server updates these points are gone and the characters still are not ranking properly. (read: maybe rank 4-7)
The following update most characters will have rank 1.
It does not matter how many points are given out. Two characters given the same amount of points, let's say 15, will have a different rank and number of points at the next faction update. One may have 4 and one may have 7. There is no logical math that explains it. It has happened more than once.
I don't know if it's because new people have logged in characters. It doesn't make sense that this is the case because points decay even if you haven't logged your character in, so anyone just logging in now should logically be at 0 as all of mine(and my alliance's) have been.
I don't know why larger shards aren't seeing the same issues. I don't play faction characters anymore on any other shards except my main.
A game system that isn't fun is fundamentally broken.
And, again, Flutter, it was the seventh post you made in this thread before you were explaining what you were talking about. And, again, Flutter, "this system is bad" is a different argument from "this system is broken."
I phrase it that way because I do because I am habitually informed by those of you more PvP focused that certain rewards for doing certain things are not "meaningful" because they do not have an impact on game mechanics. I therefore, I think quite naturally, assumed that the preference in the PvP community was to have rewards that impacts game mechanics. (Though, truthfully, sometimes even rewards that do have an impact on game mechanics are mocked as not meaningful so really I don't know what you all are looking for.) And the only game mechanics-impacting impact of the ranks I can immediately think of is the Artifacts.
Or am I missing something? Such is always possible.
I also thought that was a way to read it, and it kinda made me chuckle, honestly. ("How many are there?) In context, though, he probably intended a more general "which," not a "which one" among known alternatives.
I'm not the only one, though I may well be the only one to say it out loud. In fairness, though, my statement shouldn't be read to mean that you hate everything or even hate everything equally. Merely that the ratio from your former Stratics persona appears to have flipped.
Not really. I'm not the argumentative or competitive type. I prefer deliberation, though unfortunately the culture on Stratics does not share that preference.
Whether or not it "concerns me," if by this you mean is of interest or import, is an interesting issue. I was active in Factions on and off for some years across 2 or 3 shards (can't remember if I was ever in Factions on Europa or merely fought alternately alongside or against Faction players). I've been Commanding Lord of TB on 2 shards and took that responsibility with some seriousness.
However, I rarely wore Faction Artifacts (finding that they actually made my performance worse when I did), and thus never cared all-that-much about the rank system. I cared about winning, about owning the cities. Not about what rank I was.
One of the disquieting things about the recent debate has been the degree to which PvPers were using Factions as an artifact vending machine; to what extent people who'd use Factions as an excuse to fight or get some l33t items would come to dominate the Factions system. When the Artifacts were introduced I have to admit I totally missed the boat on what it would become as a result. Yet such resulted to such an alarming degree that folks considered the fact that the Artifacts would be harder to get as the end of Factions.
As though, somehow, Factions had only existed for the Artifacts, when in fact Factions considerably predated them.
I really don't know where this'd place me on the spectrum; whether I'd be considered as having sufficient reason to care or not.
I seriously doubt this, and have no particular memory of singling you out. It could of course be that I sometimes reply without particular awareness of who I'm responding to. I tend to read without logging in, then only log in when I've got something to say, so it's entirely possible I don't often notice who I'm responding to.
It was on the front page as it was.
At this point I think they should just dump the Factions system entirely and be done with it.
I want to haz thread war 2 !?!?!
"Bad system" is not the same as "broken system."
i r serious kat. this r serious thred!
I'll try not to care anymore. **** it.
That's a matter of nitpicky perspective. Being designed poorly is in essence being broken from the start. The Devs took a system that worked (for most people) and arbitrarily changed things without bothering to talk to those players using said system. Hell, they even re-added the restrictive weighted ranking that was scrapped 12 years ago because it annoyed too many people.
Whether you deign to call it "broken" or "bad," the fact remains that people are unhappy with Factions it stands. The words we chose to couch the state in which we see things doesn't really matter, the system isn't fun.
I have to say with the scale of annoyance with the faction ranking, it's pretty unacceptable the time this has gone on for, even for uo standards.
Ok there are a lot of annoyances that have gone on forever, but this is surely costing mythic a lot of money in subscriptions.
* hugglez * I think your topics are very important and valid. I was just trying to point out this is becoming nothing but a, nut ah... uh ha.... thread ;c......
I disagree. I think it's an important distinction, for the following reason.
If we don't like something, but phrase it as a bug, then that gives them a perfectly reasonable excuse for ignoring it if they can show it's working as intended.
I've seen this happen at least once. You know how a monster buffs itself, thus has less than 100% HP, thus you can't Honor it because the Honor system considers that monster to be injured? During a House of Commons some years back someone raised this issue, and raised it as a bug. The response: This is working as intended. And that was the last I heard of it.
The issue itself is a minor annoyance to be sure, but it always bugged me how what should have been a policy question was transformed into a question of technique and was thus neatly tucked away and never dealt with.
More related to the substance of the thread: I am increasingly bothered by the inescapable conclusion that that to many Factions is solely about the Faction Artifacts now (and probably has been for way longer than I am giving credit). I took my head out of the sand and got blinded for awhile, and once I adjusted I was distressed by what I saw. Little I've seen in this thread offers serious challenge the fundamental notion that, ultimately, people are mad that it's harder to get Artifacts. I've never been a consistent Factions player but I've played it often enough, and for what I argue are the right reasons, that this bothers me.
It's not you.
It's that I'm fighting a lot cause. I don't even know if they "fixed" it at this point if people would even bother coming back. I seem to be wasting time caring about a system that is now effectively a dead horse.
I ran into the same thing as well, at the end of the conversation, It was found my 'phrasing' to be yet an additional problem, something to be deciphered.
I had originally hoped that regardless of how phrased, that in the end it would be recognized by readers for its true form, didn't happen. I'm not a grammatical expert, but it's tough to express things, And be understood 'as intended'.
I've already shut down my 2nd account and made one character into non-faction on my main account. And no it's not "fun" at all. Still trying to figure out why ppl continue to ruin pvp in the worst ways possible.
I don't know. Maybe a dev will sometime try to explain it. Maybe this was all an unforseen consequence... though I think we all saw it coming miles away. Though, I must say, I never thought that 1) regaining points would be SOOO hard to do and 2) that bugged chars would make rank 10 unattainable in some fations and prolific in others. As for arguments for/against faction items, I say keep them and make them available for pvp. It's hard to compete without a viable suit and faction items allows you to have multiple suits even if you aren't a billionare uo guy. And in factions having multiple chars is important cause stat really slows u down if you don't (experiencing that right now, mr 1 suit wonder cause i can't rank high enough to get my stuff!)
The whole idea behind faction gear and imbuing was to level the playing field for all who wanted to venture into pvp. You could make a great suit at a reasonable cost and be able to compete with the top players (item-wise at least) without spending millions on hammers/artifacts. The top players used to have a HUGE edge with bows/armor made from duped/scripted runics. This made the gap between the rich and the moderate player ENORMOUS. That also says NOTHING for a casual player looking to muster up enough gold for ONE good pvp character. The whole goal of these systems was to take away the "itemization edge" from the rich and turn it back into a skill game rather than who's the richest or the luckiest vs the average player. They took great leaps toward leveling the playing field and now they look to destroy any pvp possible on low population shards where no one sees any faction battles. It's not like there are hundreds of Ornaments of Magi being sold on a dead shard either.
Why argue so much? It's not getting anywhere.
Go scroll through my Proposal and have DEVS follow the idea, everything will be solved.
But who cares anyways, they won't even bother LOL... why not you guys save some energy, press the faction stone, Quit Faction, then customize by imbue and reforge a suit for your pvp char?
Geez, still argue non stop back and forth doesn't make things better.
People who are greedy and selfish and not participate into factions, will say, ITS NOT FAIR TO HAVE EVERYONE WEAR THE SAME ARTIFACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People who just want to pvp would careless regardless everyone wearing the same or not.
This is the difference. So both have biased opinion. Time to stop it. Thank you.
Holy crap, up to nowadays, I still couldn't find a single reason how is it "NOT FAIR" when everyone wearing the same artifacts on their body with the same opportunities of using it??
REALLY CANT BELIEVE IT LOLOLOLOLOL...
If everyone would be open minded and not be a so selfish loser who cares too much about others..... screw Rank Requirement for wearing artifacts, this world will become better and have no whining same as pre Pub 75.
But too many, too many whiners, too many people who doesnt know what is pvp who talks.
They go and farm up some doom artifacts then they say NOOOOOOOOOOOO ITS NOT FAIR!!
My orny is supposed to be 30 mil, why is it only 10 mil now!! ITS NOT FAIR!!
My inquisitor is over 30mil, why is it only 10 mil now!!!! ITS NOT FAIR
Please go home and sleep honestly greedy mofo. That's how our faction is ruined now, thank you for these type of greedy people
As mentioned, if Rank Requirement for artifacts is removed, I guarantee 100% that the following will happen:-
1. More templates will be created in different shards, transferring of characters will be more frequent.
What does it help?
1. It will create bigger market for other artifacts such as UOSA, imbue suits, reforge suits, etc..
2. It will create bigger market for smithing resources (such as powder, runics, etc..)
3. It will create bigger market for transfer tokens and other tokens such as soul stones
4. It will create more interaction among factions activities and a wide open welcome path for everyone to join into faction
5. With faction artifacts as a starter, it is much easier to customize templates
6. With easier to customize templates, more accounts will be created, more people will join factions
7. With more people joining factions, the probability of pvp will also increase
Ok.. I am gonna stop here, the list goes on..
Rubbish people think rubbish idea, now Pub 75 for faction is really a rubbish , VERY HONEST
Like I said, please hire me as the faction developer, I guarantee 100% that I will perform 100000 times better than the current system. Of course, I will not be the one who programs, I will be the one who instruct how the systems to work. TRY IT. I repeated many many times already
To me it seems if faction armor is the issue. Simply put newer cooler artifacts in Doom for folks to get. (a lot of those doom arties were crap when they first came out anyway) leave the faction orny as it is but ad a little something special to the doom artifact. Maybe even give it a special color too.
Me, I just want people to pvp on my shard and not hear "You're from Cats? God that shards been dead". I'd rather have people ICQing me as they were last year asking how the action is. At one point we had all the factions active at the same time. It really was fun. Not once during any of those fights did I care what anyone else was wearing. Sometimes I'd look at a weapon... but ... eh. I said I was going to try not to care about this stuff anymore.
What would you think to doing a complete point wipe of the system? I know when that was initially proposed people hated it but it would get rid of the bugged chars and it would make it so that everyone was down to 0 so those old point mules would be gone. This would at least correct some of the issues and if they could figure out what is going on with decay would put things back on track.
If they completely wiped points... I think pretty much everyone would be consistantly rolling around with zero based on the massive decay rate they got going on right now. Also, some of the complaining I think is coming from them "fixing" faction ranks to the % based thing they were "supposed" to be long ago. When the system was broken, everyone (mostly) was happy because you get 20k points or whatever (shard specific) and you were lvl 10 and got the arities you need for your chars and could fight. Now, u don't know one day to the next what rank your going to be. This makes for such uncertainty and stress. It sucks! So, no a point wipe would be even worse then it is now I think, even though it might possible wipe the bugged chars with big points (though I don't think so).