It doesn't take a month to fix the faction ranks

Well, I have to disagree with you.

Whether faction arties here or not, there are still people fighting in pvp. You're correct.

But DEV at 2008, have a sudden proposal to enhance faction participation, and that proposal is to make faction aritfacts so to increase the participation rate in faction. In which, IT DID.

So now, we are all talking about faction participation and faction pvp particiation. We are not talking about some bull crap, i have 10 same blues hidden in yew gate guard zone waiting to pvp you! WRONG!! Geez, make some sense please okay?

The point is this:-

Pub 75 is making faction participation rate decline.

Why? Because now lesser and lesser people benefit from the artifacts and some just lost their suits and too lazy to recustomize again all over which caused this participation rate to decline.

So is participation rate decline a good thing or bad thing? You just go figure it out.

If anything that can boost participation rate, its a good thing.

If anything that screw up the participation rate, its a bad thing.

KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Try not to argue about faction aritfacts and all sorts of bullcrap overpowered items.

Because these overpowered items are to be offered in a FAIR and SAME GROUND to you Pre Pub 75.

Its not like, oh, I can't join faction because EA doesnt allow my account to join faction!!!! Its not this way!

As mentioned, I have always proposed Rank Requirement removal for all faction artifacts so everyone can have the exact same opportunities to wear the same thing. There will be no whining at all. Then enhance the faction system to make guarding a town defending a base more meaning to it! Also, add random quests to guide new players through a pvp tutorial and get interest in the system further. I have already put in my 1/10th part of my proposal, which I aint gonna waste my time explaining here to you people who are so close minded. If you're interested, just go scroll through and find it yourself.

So, time to stop all the whines about it and complicating yourself.

Please correct yourself.

I never once stated it takes 300 mil to build a suit without faction arties. It should be another person you're referring to.

Thank you.

Saint, our pvp takes place in Britain, and the spawns in new lich, new demon, despise, destard, not in the Yew gate.

Our pvp takes place in Minax base, in TB base and the guildhouses of enemies or ours.

I already provided screen shots of my pvp diary after Pub 75. If you don't know anything, could you just shut up and calm down and not attack people instead of making yourself look more like a stupid idiot?

Formosa have pvp, it is not dead, it is just not enough. There is a big difference with dead and not enough.

That's the reason I have chars in Asuka for pvp and I am the top tier pvp chars because I have the ability to kill people who have million of points to reach to the negative limit of faction scores 10+ times.

I don't like people such as you who seems to know more than someone who are playing on the shard. GEEZZ ridiculous. Yes ridiculous you are.

Anyways, I am in office right now (14:28pm), there is a photo I have taken for killing someone inside my office with less than 50% of my keys here in my office PC, go take a look at this screen shot and stop yapping your non sense stupid ignorance arguement.

I still have a bunch of photos taken at my home computer and can show you tonight when i head back. Geez, when you dont know anything, its better you just shut up. Now you're making yourself look like a stupid moron, honestly.

You're one to talk

I would put you on ignore, but your inane ramblings are almost comical.

Yeah we get your point, which is the Devs stupidly add overpowered Artis to Factions which at the time were practically dead except for the people who actually wanted to participate in that bugged/broken system. This forced everyone to join Factions whether they wanted to or not. Hell the fact that Trammies were joining Faction in droves tells you what a dumb, poorly thought out change this was.

Did the Devs make their initial screw up better with their latest change? Hell no. But neither you or anyone else on here will convince me that the actual amount of PvPers or PvP action increased due to the Devs band-aiding some dumb overpowered Artis into a barely active system.

on your shard maybe, i don't play there so i wouldnt know, I do know however that on at least Origin and Siege faction participation and pvp in general TANKED to near oblivion right after the faction artys were added, so "IT DID" is not a fact that holds true on all shards (by faction participation i mean people actually participating, not people joining for the artys and running back to tram to pvm farm with them)

True on your shard maybe, here since Pub 75 I've seen more pvp than I've seen in the past year...enough for me to consider swapping my active character back from my crafter (who does hilariously well in pvp..but that's mostly item/knowledge advantage) to my dexxer. We even have a decently sized new guild that joined TB...a faction that's pretty much been dormant for years since for some reason TB seems prone to "ragequit" when we wipe the floor with whatever is left of them, and a old pvp guild that had moved to an "other" shard talking about coming back.

Holy crap, again I am talking about faction participation and faction participation pvp rate with you here, then why are you still continue to yap about overall non faction pvp. If today, I am to pvp without any faction aritfacts, I am out of faction! Simple as that! Holy crap You still dont get this point. If 2008, they didnt implement faction artifact, we wouldn't be here to argue at all because we all would've been still in our blue chars and red chars bashing each others!!! HOLY CRAP MY GOODNESS.

Lets look at below picture, ok lets take it at the shards I play, Formosa, Asuka, Sonoma.

Back in 2007 = rate = 0

2008 = rate = 10

So this is already an increase of participation of faction pvp.

Please dont talk about this with me.

2007 = pvp rate = 10

2008 = pvp rate = 10

DUHHHHHHH....!!!!!!! The thread main topic is about faction and we are argue about faction right now here.

Whether faction artifacts implemented or not, the OVERALL is it brings increase in the faction participation. Face the truth and the face. Well maybe it just so wierd that it doesnt happen in reverse in 3-4 of the 20's shards.

But again, I cant understand one biggest issue here.

In any shards you play, when everyone are wearing the same thing, what really puts you back in PVP comparing when there are some pvp gods wearing the most uber items while you're still wearing the GM crafted armour?

Uhhh... I am lost on you guys complicated and twisted mind.

Raptor, I have been repeating myself, even yourself couldn't convince yourself the reason here.

1. Why would participation rate increase when you have a minority of people able to wear stronger artifact?
2. Why would participation rate decrease when you have a majority of people able to wear the same stronger artifact?

Even yourself couldn't answer this question, which is totally Ironic.

It's like you tell me that Siege people or pvpers are so wierd that, when majority of their armour gets nerfed, they come out to pvp more. Whilst, when their armour are as strong and competitive as the "nerds/top pvpers/top thieves/most account people who could wash points up", they come out an pvp less?

Doesnt make sense.

NEXT!

Easy, now that faction fights are in primarily imbued armor the requirement to grind silver to get the level 10 artys is gone for factions, making it far faster to re-equip. While not expensive in the least in comparison to similar items non-faction it was a horiffic GRIND keeping enough silver to buy rank 10 items. Aside from that non-faction people are actually fighting again instead of running 100% of the time....I was getting kidna sick of all the stealth tamers tbh... Come try it out though...I mean...i'm not kidding, pvp on the shard easily doubled in the past few weeks....it's actually gotten quite bloody, if faction fights on your shard are dying because of crybabys not getting free gear you're welcome to join us over here.

If you don't believe me come over here, build a character, and try it out. I'm done though, no more replies here as it's obvious whatever I say will be dismissed offhand as being "false" without even logging in and checking.

Whee... These threads get silly fast...

How does this sound for a fix:

- End point decay, or reduce it to 1-5% weekly
- Cap points so the totals don't get ridiculous again, may help curb point muling
- Remove current screwed up ranking bell curve system and use a tiered system based off the point cap
- Ensure thieves get enough points they can achieve rank by plying their trade
- Change faction artifact stats to their normal counterparts, reorder their ranking so mages aren't forced to be of high rank (while dexers aren't) This should be a big enough draw without being OP to normal PvP
- Consider reducing stat loss timer to 8-10 mins

Next would be a detailed conversation between the Devs and players on ways to improve Faction content and fix the bugs (preferably without screwing up PvE...)

Maybe on your shard but things on Chesy seem to be going pretty well has been a decent amount of activity. There was a fun public Harry over the weekend that got a lot of folks out, and it was raided and there were fights among the raiders. I want the decay fixed but I think that the problem is they didn't go far enough it should have been a complete point wipe and they should look at ending some of the loopholes that have allowed folks to farm points in the first place. That way you have to be active and your probably going to have to pick a shard to have rank on but at least the system will work. As for the arties maybe its time to just throw that out and force everyone into the same UO item economy. If all you want to do is pvp thats fine, but there are folks that just want to pvm and they are forced to come to fel for scrolls so now the same is true the other way. Tying folks in more with the economy even in its broken state is a good thing.

No one has been able to explain to me why the best pvpers get the best gear.

It does not make sense. It's a reverse handicap.

"Hey, you exploit and speedhack. You know what? Your suit deserves more stats than mine."

Also a fact that is often forgotten, Members of factions can give points to each other via " I honor thee" command. So if your a mage and you got a bunch of guildies that are dexxers, they can wear their gear while giving you their extra points. I don't play in a huge pvp guild so I am once again at a disadvantage.

Bottem line, FACTIONS IS BROKEN.

I have as much right to get access to cool gear as anyone else.

it is interesting to me that the dev's have provided no response to this change despite the uproar it brought upon the PAYING CUSTOMERS. they just flew through the window, took a big ole whizzz on the cornflakes and flew back out again.

Just had another one of those situations where something kinda smacks you in the face. Here's a thought I've got. Was looking at this rough timeline of a history for UO and something that jumps out is that early next year will be the 10th anniversary of the Age of Shadows release that included Doom dungeon. We know the devs are trying to push out one anti-virtue dungeon revamp every other publish. I think it's often been debated whether Doom is also considered an anti-virtue dungeon. What if the plan is to do a massive Doom revamp to coincide with it's 10th birthday? If yes, what would that mean? Maybe now's the time to start pitching out some serious ideas on what people would like to see from a Doom revamp and get some seriously good PvP artifacts in the mix.

Just a thought and maybe something productive to do instead of ripping each other to shreds here and getting people so down about UO's future that they don't even want to log in anymore. I personally think there are probably some great changes in the works, but we need to be kinda patient and also provide constructive feedback at appropriate times.

Anyway, carry on! Don't quit, though. We all need you to stick around!

I don't want to login that's for sure, Ultima Online is just a huge downer all the time. Seriously UO! just die already.

They already said that Doom isn't one of the virtue dungeons and that while its on the list its after the virtue dungeons. With the announced schedule being 1 every other publish I would say that Doom is not getting revamped before its 10th at least not unless they are planning on cranking out publishes.

Indeed.

Anti-Virtue Dungeon - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

-Galen's player

Not all PvPers exploit and speedhack but most have farmed the spawns that give the fastest gold vs time. If you were in PvP for the last 7 years there is a good chance that you did hundreds, if not thousands, of spawns either yourself or from a raid and have recieved the scrolls that sold for millions. My vendors have 600+ mil on them doing nothing, I have all of the items I need plus loads of other junk stuff that is "worth" millions more(EM items, 50+ ethies, luna and gate houses, suits, tokens and rares etc. PvP tends, imo, to be tied directly to most of the more well suited players simply because there is a drive to be better off than your peer.

I agree with this.

You can tell there's some kind of a renewal going on there, Raptor, just by looking at the Siege forums....there appears to be a ton of crafting going on!

Not that it matters to this thread, here are a couple of links to counter yours and the main reason why I said there's some debate on this point: UO Stratics - The 8 Virtues , User:Miqademus/ultima-philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , and virtues of ultima : definition of virtues of ultima and synonym of virtues of ultima (English) .

Maybe Mirt has a link to a direct quote from the devs that'll help end the debate.

I hope someone brought this up...

I did do all that. I have hundreds of millions of gold. I played the game, and farmed and did everything to deserve the best.

Now where can I buy an Orny with 3 mana regen? Who can I pay for a pair of folded steel glasses with 25 DCI? Tell me where I can farm that. Tell me what step I can take as player to get those items.

I want to run a solo faction mage with no help from a guild. Please tell me how I can go about getting my faction artie stuff. Oh I can't because the system is broke and is competitive amongst the same faction which makes no sense.

Make the faction point system noncompetitive. Make it so everyone who has 100 KP can wear rank 10. Why should the fact that 10 other good people from my shard are in my faction disqualify me from getting the gear I earned?

The links you provided for the most part refer to the single-player games. There was a Dungeon called Doom in one of them (5?) where an abducted Lord British was taken.

The term Anti-Virtue Dungeon, Dungeon of Sin, or the like in UO has always referred to the 8 original dungeons, each one of which has an opposite Virtue and opposite town.

Also see here:

Dungeon - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

on a site referred to as the Codex of Editable Wisdom. (Codex being a reference to the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom, see here: Codex of Ultimate Wisdom - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online, a book in the single-player games.)

The most-relevant excerpt of the dungeon article is this:

At any rate, all references to Anti-Virtue Dungeons made by the devs that I am aware of have in context clearly been directed towards and about the 8 main dungeons of the Britannia map.

UO's Doom to my knowledge has little in common with the Doom in Ultima lore. Never seen any actual suggestion of that at any rate, other than the name.

Here is the article on Doom from the Codex of Editable Wisdom:

Doom - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

and here is the article on Doom from the UO Guide.

Doom - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

There is, to sum up, no good reason to think the devs were referring to anything other than the 8 Dungeons of Sin, and little reason I've been made aware of to think that Doom can be counted as one in a philosophical or fictional sense.

There is one lingering reasonable doubt there and that is that the Virtues of Spirituality and Humility, both of which are formed from Truth, Love, and Courage (all other Virtues are formed from only 1 or 2 of those 3 Principles), has always had an ambiguous status relative to the dungeons. Humility in particular is considered the keystone of the Virtues, so what's its opposite? Hythloth? The hardest of the original 8, arguably a keystone Sin as Humility is a keystone Virtue, and it's located on the Isle of the Avatar (Fire Isle). Is it the Abyss? Maybe. The Abyss, in Ultima 4, was on that same island as I recall, the same one it is now, and it surely is more or less on that island in UO. (Ok, ok, not technically, but the Underworld entrance surely is and the Underworld's one way to get to the Abyss.) A case had been made at one point that Doom was the Dungeon opposite Humility.

But, at any rate, it wasn't the best case in terms of figuring out the in-game theology (I think I may have even made that case at one point) and there's no good reason to think Doom's what the devs had in-mind.

Not that all this really matters of course; if you stretch the definition of doubt far enough there is literally doubt on everything you see, read touch, or otherwise experience. And that definitional uncertainty of reality surely works to the advantage of many here on Stratics.

-Galen's player

Re: The Doom Debate

Doom is not the anti-Virtue dungeon for Humility, the Great Stygian Abyss is. Its stated as such several times in the single player games, specifically Ultima IV. However, it is also described as being the antithesis of all the Virtues.

Doom in Ultima V is at the center of the Underworld...which is where the entrance to the Great Stygian Abyss is. In essence, they are the same dungeon in the single player games (especially after all the retconning OSI did over the years).

Doom, in UO, is rather unrelated to the Virtues since it is found on a continent not released until 2003. While Malas could be the Lands of the Dark Unknown, lost during the Shattering...no one with any authority has ever come out and said that. At any rate, the anti-Virtue dungeons have all traditionally been within the bounds of "Britannia" somewhere.

I am not trying to say that your shard have this scene isn't correct. Its an exception. Maybe few more shards are the same as yours which have this wierd attitude. But thinking as the majority and normal situation, the scenrio of Pub 75 comes down to below:-

Pub 75 implemented:-

Originally each player have 3 templates under faction gear, now they are down to 0 or 1.

In this scene, we already can tell that just the template itself already fall shorts in the faction pvp activities.

Then we got people who customize full set of armour under imbue and reforge and not need any faction arties, well some of those will decided to just quit faction and pvp/pvm under their blue characters. Well this again decrease the faction pvp activities.

Then we got some god thief, god pvper, god wash point people, god nerd who are able to acheive the higher ranks for the higher ranked artifacts, but because the ranking bracket is so small that when there are more than few of these top nerd, top pvper, etc... they also have trouble compete and wearing their armour! So end up without their armour, they either gotta customize it, readjust, or they just don't play, which again is a sign of faction pvp activities in decline.

Like I said, its the change of one thing that affect the outcome of many other things.

Moreover, it really doesn't make sense. If originally, there are 100 of players in a pvp bracket Pre Pub 75, those 100 players are still pvping in Pre Pub 75 either in blue or in factions. Now after Pub 75, 90+% of the players have their armour dropped with only 10% or less that can avoid of dropping armour (temporariliy; in which they are able to go straight and fight in pvp), then those 90%+ of peeps will need to readjust their armour to go out and fight again. But will all 90+% of these people go and adjust their armour for faction pvp? Like I said, many will have to adapt and adjust their armour, but the point is that they might not be staying in factions anymore, because there are no new content or any interesting content enough to keep them inside the system. Again this is a decreasing of faction activities.

The logic is the same, if EM event announced that there is no reward at all, how many players you think would cut short in participation?

Like I mentioned 100000000 times, since UO implemented into a more ITEM BASED game system, everyone have a fairly high incentive to adjust their suits to play on the ground. Human are never satisfy at all, they want more. That's why when faction artifacts are easier to come by, more templates are created and used in pvp / pvm activities. More templates means what? Means a possibilities of more accounts created.

Moreover, faction artifacts only hold 1/4 of a players equipment if you think clearly. There are a total of 15 slots for equipment, excluding weapon and shield.

Normally a dexer template include:-

either a mace glass, bear hat or deer hat (1 slot)
glove (usually is under imbued, very seldom using that 25 di one due to the resist will suck in poison and fire)
talisman (sometimes will be using the rank 7 ones, but actually there are still a BETTER replacement (conjurer trinket) out there
apron (gives you 5 more dex, but then even lesser 5 dex under the normal version still isnt the end of the world)

So as you see, total of 15 slots, faction gear only holds up to max of 4 slots for the dexer templates in normal.

You still have 11 slots that you need to think yourself in customization. So again, I don't see a problem of when everyone have the same ground of using those as a basic starter in faction.

I gotta be honest.... I only read part of the post above and stopped at:

"Well this again decrease the faction pvp activities."

Hope you can memorize what i'm about to say below, because it's going to be very short and very sweet:

UO PvP Does Not Revolve Around Factions... Adapt, get over it and play the game with or WITHOUT factions or unsubscribe. End of thread.

If there are is any CONSTRUCTIVE feedback in regards to factions then i'm fairly certain that the devs have seen it and already made their decision.

And I would like you to check out the topic of this thread:-

"It doesn't take a month to fix the faction ranks"

Now shut up and stop making yourself like an idiot.

We're discussing faction pvp activities, you come over here and yap around other things? Hello?? more off topic please?

Make it so average players have the ability to acheive rank 10. PERIOD.

god... someone needs to get slayer888 a very large box of tissues.