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Logging out to stable or retrieve your pet

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I don't think that logging out to stable or retrieve your pet is within the spirit of the game.

    At no point should in order to gain advantage in a game should 'logging out' be part of it. There are certain situations where you can actually exploit this, currently i see no reason for doing this other than the convenience of saving your pet from death upon your own death. I believe if you die, your pet must go down with the ship.

    Here's a few situations that show how lame the current logging pet system can be:
    Lets say i have a greater dragon, i can set the greater dragon on another player, that other player may then kill me, however i can then wait and see how well my pet fairs, I could get a kill from the dragon or simply wait until my dragon is redlined then log out, it's a no lose situation.

    Also, I could set my dragon or other pet on another player then run off and hide, when logged in, to retrieve my pet i would have to use a pet ball/balls which will reveal me. However if i log out and in, i can retrieve the pet without revealing myself.

    I say that with pet balls (and the low cost of petball insurance now) there's no reason that logging out should statble your pet and logging in should retrieve your pet.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a dev played a trammel tamer, as this current system has trammel tamer written all over it.
  2. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

    u have a pet you worked a long time to gm in all skills. you get killed. you log to save your pet. i c nothing wrong with this. there is enough grind in this game than having to go work your pet an hour so it gets it's last 1/10 gain in magery to gm.

    now if your talking about factions. say u kill the faction tamer and both he and his pet gets statted for 20 min. i have no problem with that mechanic if it were ever to be implemented.
  3. Really? With all the other issues going on in UO, you think this is an issue? Petballs are all but useless because 90% of the places a tamer might want to use them at they don't work. With the amount of game area that currently does not support recall... Fel dungeons & T2A, Ilsh, and the Abyss, I find it un-realistic to expect players to drag unmounted pets all over, somestimes through heavy spawn just to get to your destination. I realize there are a few out there who play UO soley to PvP, but I think the vast majority still PvM at least some of the time. You request a change that would impact a great many players ability to enjoy their game play so that a few might be able to kill a pet in PvP. In my opinion it should be easier, not harder, to summon a pet to it's owner. Furthermore, I find your rational for needing to be able to kill a pet in PvP to be lacking. If someone wants to run away and hide just to save a pet so be it, either kill them as they try and run away, or kill someone else.
    Arrgh and Xalan Dementia like this.
  4. Most of the time killing the tamer is more than sufficient, unless the pet is a giant beetle or the like, the tamer can't control the pet once they are in stat.
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil Premium Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Royal Knight

    Obviously you have NEVER lost a beloved pet. Pet balls do NOT always work. Infact often they don't. And I hate to break this to you but "Trammel" Tamers probably make up 95% of all "tamers". And considering the HUGE post about how nasty it is to lose your packy because when they die there backpack doesn't stay around for very long at all...... Logging out to "save" your pet isn't that bad.

    So from this tamer I can say this.... leave my pets alone.

    As for factions Stat loss for pets only makes sense....
    Xalan Dementia and Conrad99 like this.
  6. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    Here's a thread from 3 1/2 years ago, same topic. Save you all some work. Pet Summoning | Stratics Forums .

    Maybe if server lines were eliminated, it might be possible to come up with a solution that satisfies everyone (non-tamer PvPers, tamer PvPers, and tamers that never go near Fel) to some degree or another.
    IanJames likes this.
  7. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable


    ...someone got smoked by a tamer. :D

    An argument brought to us by the folks that brought you specific windows for doing champ spawns based upon his own schedule.

    And the trammie reference was hardly logical as you provided 2 examples of logging abuse based in fel. Just as likely that a PvP tamer implemented this system to use it against you (not that I think any dev did, as it was implemented, if I remember correctly, to resolve a bad bug with disappearing pets)
    Xalan Dementia and O'Brien like this.
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Pets should not be able to be commanded to "kill" other players.
    Problem solved.
  9. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    Eliminate PvP :eyes: :D

    All PvP issues solved

  10. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    That is also my recollection of why the auto stabling feature was added. The notes for Publish 33 that was released on June 16, 2005 (hard to believe that was almost 7 years ago!!) with regard to auto stabling read as follows: "Addressed an issue with followers being lost at logout: (1) When a player logs out, followers (pets, hired NPCs) will be auto-stabled, returning to the player upon login. (2) Pets that do not automatically return to the player can be claimed at the stable master."

    And it's not as if the actual process of using a pet summoning ball hasn't been tweaked a bit already too in response to complaints. Publish 51 on March 26, 2008 imposed a few restrictions on using pet summoning balls: Attempting to use one unhides the summoner; there's a disruptable casting animation when using one; and there's a 15-second reuse delay.

    Also, in Publish 59 on July 14, 2009, a change was added that disallows criminals to stable their pets. Maybe this last change should have extended to auto stabling at log out as well? For all we know, that was the intent too but the devs were absolutely up to their eyeballs in wrapping up SA at that point, so maybe they weren't able to finish/correct their programming? We'll probably never know for sure one way or the other.
  11. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I proposed that champs should only drop scrolls during peak time of each respected shard, not my time, peak time. I'm not always on at peak time.
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    That's funny, almost got me there.
  13. Based on the devs adding insurance, blessed deeds, pet bonding, etc....I'm of the opinion that you're definition of the "spirit of the game" is wrong.
    Berethrain and Mervyn like this.
  14. Tina Small

    Tina Small Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran


    If they ever do this, the EMs should also be required to run events at a shard's peak time, which doesn't mean everything on the North American shards, even the west coast shards, is done at 8 pm EASTERN TIME.
  15. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Why must your pet be 100 everything all of the time?
    O'Brien likes this.
  16. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    A lot of people do not play at peak times, and their ability to play the game the way they like to and when they want/can is not trumped by yours, mine, or anyone elses.
    O'Brien likes this.
  17. *checks the date*

    HEY! C'mon... April FOOLS Day was yesterday!
  18. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    Even i lost interest in this since lordDrago side-tracked
  19. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran Stratics Veteran

    There are plenty of peak times for all players on diff shards people should be on a shard which would suit their peak time.

    Whereas this is the wrong place for mervyn to meantion this due to a massive amount of trammies on these boards because they dont understand why this could be a good idea.
  20. Cetric

    Cetric Crazed Zealot Stratics Veteran

    While i get the frusteration with this, i also know the frusteration with losing connection and losing an expensive creature *dread mare*. One night i was working skills on the dread a long while back, and my internet went out. i went to bed eventually after the isp found it couldnt be resolved, only to log back in to a missing amazing dread mare.
  21. Flutter

    Flutter Stratics Legend Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Or we could elminate Trammel so there's more people for the PvPers to kill! Yay! :mylittlepony:
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Well if you seem to think it's such a good idea to restrict powerscrolls to players who can play during peak times then perhaps you could explain it instead of labeling those who disagrees with it as "trammies."
  23. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    The problem with this is there should never be a scenario where logging out becomes an advantageous strategy in battle. That's why even since the early days of this game, you could not insta-log to save your char from being killed in battle. Your char can only insta-log at inns, homes, and campfires (after a delay of "setting up your camp".) It should be the same for pets.

    The auto-stabling of pets when logging out was just another bug-bandaid we get that creates other, sometimes greater bugs.

    If you don't want your pet to die, then don't bring him to the fight.
    o2bavr6, Mervyn and Raptor85 like this.
  24. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

  25. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper

    What if the pet lost some skill if you log out when it is in aggro or within a minute or so of aggro mode? Wouldn't this give the player the choice to save his pet and at the same time give the attackee some form of satisfaction?
  26. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable

    Honestly, I just think the combat timer should apply for pets as well as players, when a player logs a pet shouldn't insta-log it should have to wait the 2 minutes if it's in combat, and if in an area that was specificly flagged so that you can't teleport a pet to you there the pet should NOT teleport to you there if you log in, it should teleport to the last position you were in before being in a non-teleport area. It's 100% an exploit to leave your pet inside your house, run down to l4 of a dungeon, then relog to pull the pet to you. Or my personal favorite to set a pet on someone, run for the nearest private house, then reolog to pull the pet to safety.

    Relogging to teleport pets in non-teleport/combat situations is exploit abuse and should be bannable just as all other exploits are, if you want to teleport a pet to you use a petball, if you're in a area where that's not allowed....tough! it's not allowed in that area for a reason...this is no less an exploit than the guys who were using the glitch to sacred journey home with scrolls after completing champ spawns.
    o2bavr6, Daelomin and O'Brien like this.
  27. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    What? You moved from California to NY but still want to do champ spawns with your friends? HOW DARE YOU!!!!! IF you want to do champ spawns, you must do it where we tell you to do it!!!!

    yeah...sounds like a grand idea.

    Actually, I didn't move, an Army pal of mine did. Guess I could call the Department of the Army and see if they will PCS him back to the east coast. Theyt will probably do it cause they are such an understanding and easy to talk to group.
  28. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    But that wouldn't fix any of the PvP problems (other than finding more people to kill). LOL
  29. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    This is a good idea other than the fact that the insta-logging of pets is a bug fix, and the ramifications of removing it to the tamer community is rather big. I know some people do not care, but if we are truthful to ourselves, there are bugs that effect different groups that these groups want resolved. The Devs do what they can to resolve them (do not go there :)), and sometimes these fixes have unintended consequences.

    The question is which is better, a tamer being able to log out to save his pet, or the continueing deletion of pets through a bug.
  30. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable

    Sounds right to me. Now, can it be implemented without bringing back the pet deletion bug, or creating some other bug or unintended side effect?

  31. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    I didn't read anything but does anyone remember when you could boat pets? I would love to boat someones crappy pet.
  32. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Hehe no I never heard about that but this type of thinking does open a new realm of possibilities.

    What if in Fel, after killing you, your enemy could choose to either kill your pet and its ghost, or retame your pet, essentially stealing ownership? :devil:
  33. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus

    I don't believe players should be able to log out and pull a pet from battle. A better solution would be to place a timer on logging out pets when they or their owners were in the heat of battle. But after that time, the pet is logged off as normal. Pets are designed to be bonded, to die and to need resurrection. When a player can effectively pull a pet from the fight, they bypass that whole system. A tamer who stays logged in has the disadvantage of a dead pet and the need for an NPC vet or some vet skill. And their pets suffer a skill penalty when they're resurrected.

    Pets being transported by players who leave them somewhere safe then relog at their destination... well it kinda makes a joke of pet summoning crystals and their restrictions. I would suggest that the devs look at the list of places that crystals work and decide if more should be added. Then make it so a pet will go to the stables if it's alive when the player logs out.

    Pet crystals are a system that could be expanded on, perhaps with different charges for other commands - like a send home one to stable a pet, or a really awesome one of calling a specific pet out from the stables... with plenty of restriction, using multiple powders each use, and only available in areas where the crystals can be used normally. And make it take a minute for the pet to appear etc. Very handy for non mage tamers who can't gate though :)

    LordDrago likes this.
  34. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Auto stable was put in because to lose con was to lose your pet. On one memorable occasion I lost con to Europa - in fact the whole of Europe lost con to Europa, but the shard hadn't gone down. All the US could reach it. A vital Sprintlink server right at the end of the route had gone out. EA didn't even know there was a problem till it was reported on various message boards. Eight hours later I was very lucky to find that my white wyrm was still alive, though wild, among the lich spawn in Ankh. Retaming it while dodging the spawn was interesting to say the least.
    While it is wrong that this should be abused the way it is, removing it is not the answer, and I'm not sure that the game can tell the difference between connection lost unexpectedly and connection lost through deliberate log out.

    To attach a combat timer may be fair for pvp - but what of the tamer who loses con in the middle of a dungeon? His pet should be left alone there and fighting with no owner to heal it?
    Jingles and LordDrago like this.
  35. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox Stratics Veteran Staff Alumnus Stratics Legend

    Trying to come up with a workable suggestion.
    Suppose autostabled pets actually went into the stable (creating a temporary 'storage crate' type slot if the stable is full). Suppose then the player had to re-claim that pet on log in - that would prevent the log in-out get the pet in the dungeon scenario and the log out hidden, pull the pet to another part of the fight.
    Suppose also that there was a two minute delay on log in before a pet could be retrieved from the stable. This wouldn't bother anyone logging in to begin playing, they'd usually spend at least that long checking supplies etc before heading out. It wouldn't even bother the tamer who lost con and died. They would spent that time getting rezed, equiped and healed.

    ok, without telling me I'm an idiot or worse, find the flaws in my idea, refine it, or come up with your own. Keep it simple, the more elaborate the plan the less likely it is to be workable.
    LordDrago and Xalan Dementia like this.
  36. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie Stratics Veteran

    You used to be able to drag them through gates into spawn that would insta kill them. Many a pet i draged down to the balrons and they were not able to bond to them way back then either
  37. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    It's funny how some people are so closed minded that they believe that there is no other way to prevent bonded pets from disappearing other than them to insta be auto stabled/retrieved upon log in/out?

    (A bit like when Tazar believed you couldn't fix the loss of hit points from crossing server lines without causing everyone to bug out and get 70 resist in everything naked, oh no i didn't)
  38. "It's funny how some people are so closed minded that..." when many other people tell them that their idea isn't that good or won't work, they think the other people are wrong, not their ideas.
    LordDrago and Xalan Dementia like this.
  39. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Its funny when someone avoids other peoples ideas and avoids coming up with a better idea themself and resorts to calling everyone else closed minded...

    So much easier to say someone is wrong and an idiot instead of supplying a constructive alternative isn't it? It just doesn't lead anywhere close to a solution. You can't build a solution to a situation involving tamers and their pets without feedback and input from the tamers just because you don't like them, sorry Mervyn.
  40. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage Stratics Veteran

    How about in Fel instead of the pet being auto-stabled it is auto killed when you lose connection or log out as a ghost, but resurrecting the pet when it dies in this manner would not cause skill loss?
    Raptor85 likes this.
  41. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran Stratics Veteran

    My idea would be if you log out to save the pet then the only way to retrieve the pet is by going to the stable or using a pet ball.

    There Fixed.

    And if there is a bug with this i propose the bug is fixed instead of just skirting around it.

    Im affraid this dosnt compute i neither revolve my life around uo or expect uo to revolve around me and i actually determined my shard as it had the better Ping and primetime classed as my pimetime. Easy
  42. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    I play a tamer, but nice try
  43. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Touche then, but then the first part of my post stands. If you don't like ideas of others open up to coming to a solution instead calling others closed minded. Comes off a bit hypocritical there...
  44. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    Maybe a temporary penalty like stat-loss instead when recovering it out of the stables or make it unable to attack for a limited amount of time. Nothing too severe for consideration of those who truly do loose connection and are not trying to exploit the system.
  45. These still penalize the players that lose connection, or more likely, when the client crashes. That would just take you out of the game for a period of time, or make it harder to recover your body.
  46. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah Stratics Veteran

    A pet with stat-loss would still be of a little use for quick retrieval of ones body, an in-and-out kind of deal. But if one has more than one combat pet in the stable they might be able to use another one. I'm not suggesting like a 30 min penalty on a pet, something more like 5-10 minutes if it's stat-loss.

    Although I do like Petras idea too.
  47. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran Stratics Veteran

    Con loss can be faked and abused.

    Also Con loss is one of those things it happens why do we have to have mechanics to prevent the loss of a pet? On that basis on a con loss a player should be sent to their house so they dont die or loose anything in their pack?

    The period of time lost maybe 5 - 10mins tops big deal........
  48. Mervyn

    Mervyn Slightly Crazed Stratics Veteran

    My idea is, when you die, your pet stays logged in until your character actually logs out, upon logging in, your pet appears next to you. If you have logged out and logged in without your character being logged out, your pet will remain doing whatever it was doing.

    I don't really understand why i have to STATE what my idea is, isn't that just the obvious way of making things work? rather than this weird way of pets insta logging out on request.
  49. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable Stratics Veteran

    Yes but if folks lose connection and can't get it back then their pet can go wild and they lose their pet. This was put in to prevent that from happening. Taking it out would cuase many tamers to lose thier pets which is a huge issue.
  50. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Unfortunaly, sometimes it does help to let the people in charge know that we expect more as paying customers and we're tired of doing their job for them. They may not like it. They probably won't read our rants.. But some of us are not just going to gobble up any 10% effort and 90% goofing off publish on a game we love. Things that they add to the game which improve the game, we appreciate, and they are already thanked with our hard-earned cash.

    If we don't receive 110%, we'll be on the boards whining about it if not cancelling our accounts. Will that kill UO? No, it will always be around in some shape or form, even after EA decides to pull the plug.
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