Okay. The Bible SUCKS!

As most of you know, I work in an elementary school, and *your* tax dollars go directly to my imposing my liberal mindedness on your future leaders, and on occasion, even though we’re a public school, the Bible comes into play.

The other day in the 7th grade classroom, there was a discussion going on about the role of women before they were afforded so much as the right to vote. When students were asked why women were not allowed to vote, the answer most of them said aloud was that “Women are inferior.”

No matter what the question was about why women were not allowed to do this or that, the answer was always the same.

FINALLY, I had to pipe in and correct them about what they were saying. Women were never inferior, they were, however, CONSIDERED inferior by men. I explained that in American society, because it was based strongly on Judeo-Christian morality, women were held to their more “biblical” roles of mother and wife.

We talked quite a bit about this, and why it could be. What it boiled down to was that men have wanted, and still want as much power as they can get.

It’s a given. The Bible is a “Goddly” endorsement of their rights to that power.

The Bible was written, and subsequently translated, by men. I doubt very seriously that anyone here has researched the ancient writings, or learned Aramaic so that they could check the accuracy of what we’re *told* is the of God.

Men wanted it to be this way. They wanted to be the king of their castle, and they didn’t want any competition from within their family. Women were to be submissive objects, who live and die on the whims of the men.

Anyone who has experienced multiple churches and different pastors knows that everyone gets something totally different from each and every part of the Bible. It’s like a tool you would expect to find in Ms. Cleo’s psychic hotline HQ. It’s so vague, that you can teach almost anything you want from it. Forget the true meaning! What’s *YOU’RE* agenda? That’s what you preach.

The Bible is nothing more than a sham document created for the purpose of luring the masses to follow people who otherwise would be nothing more than peons in the world.

Remember the “campfire” stories? The ones where it’s never the same when it gets around, either because details were left out or people intentionally changed it?

The Bible’s the same thing. Just a campfire story with a God complex.

There was more equality in Ancient Rome, between Men and Women then there was in the the 19th century. Times Change. Views Change. What's acceptable changes, and the pendulum swings.

Culture also dictates way of life. Compare the Middle East to America. Different Values. You have to remember the time period in which the Bible was written (and where). Do we need to follow the Bible to the letter? No. Because our way of Life has changed since the time it was written. Can we use it as a guide? Yes. Because we, as a human race are still fundamentally the same. The morale lessons taught in the Bible, still hold true in today's world.

Does the Bible suck? No, but Peoples interpretations of the Bible, that impose limitations, misconstrue, and misjudge what it is that the Bible is teaching us, does Suck. Organized religion is the culprit, and their shortsightedness.

Perhaps it's these 'Godfearing Men' that also fear Woman for their 'godlike' powers to create Life. Envious for their gift that God bestowed upon them. Feeling inadequate, it is Man that imposed their Will upon Women.

The Bible is not to blame. We are.

Im going to have to disagree with most if not all your post. Here goes.

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women were held to their more “biblical” roles of mother and wife.

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Women were not held to this standard that was what was accepted by all including women they did not fight it. It wasnt until the early 70's that women in corporate america really came into the picture and this stems mainly from young women not marrying immediately out of highschool or college. This forces women into a job to support themselves which is fine I dont disagree with women in the workplace and I beleive that most religious groups (save radical muslims) agree with that too. I would also add that according to child developement studies a child raised by a stay at home mother has the upper hand in almost every study compared to those children who were raised by a sitter or child care business.

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It’s a given. The Bible is a “Goddly” endorsement of their rights to that power.


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Godly is the correct spelling
The bible is not a bill of rights. The bible is a spiritual guide to how you should live your life and an example on how to follow in the footsteps of jesus on a daily basis. It is also a source of true history of the world.
If you were to read instead of judge you would know that the bible does not give full undeniable power to "man" over "women" in fact it specifically state to not take advantage of that because it is wrong and to put it matter of factly not very honorable to your wife or women.

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The Bible was written, and subsequently translated, by men. I doubt very seriously that anyone here has researched the ancient writings, or learned Aramaic so that they could check the accuracy of what we’re *told* is the of God.

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The bible was not written by men. It is the pure word of God printed on paper by men. Man did not add or subtract from what God intended the bible to say. There are several translations out there most common one being the King James version. It is the closest translation from hebrew to english that you will find today. I have not researched the ancient writings of God so I can not tell you that everything is exactly as it was originally written in fact I am almost sure it is not, mostly due to the difference in languages and some words just dont have a meaning between the two. Meaning texts have been written to help study the bible including Hebrew to english bibles to show exact meanings as close as possible to original writings as well as greek dictionaries since many of the old languages were very similar and can be cross refrenced with a words base to get the meaning from several different languages helps to attain the asured definition of a word not to mention context. Im sure that the translations of one of the oldest texts on earth was not just translated in a halfa$$ fashion.

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Men wanted it to be this way. They wanted to be the king of their castle, and they didn’t want any competition from within their family. Women were to be submissive objects, who live and die on the whims of the men.

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Again this is incorrect it has nothing to do with what man wants. It may seem to many that when the bible says, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." Ephesians 5:22, this can be taken out of context lest you read the rest of the passage ... "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." Ephesians 5:23 This makes it clear that husbands are not "over" there wives, as Christ is not "over" the church is more a guide, a teacher, a mentor. This is how the husband is to be towards his wife He is to take full responsibility for all things related to the family. If something bad should happen and it was the result of something the wife may have done (like not paying a bill) this in Gods eyes is the husbands fault as he is responsible for the well being of the family.
Here is another reference "Husbands, love [your] wives, and be not bitter against them." Collosians 3:19
"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

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Remember the “campfire” stories? The ones where it’s never the same when it gets around, either because details were left out or people intentionally changed it?


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These diffrences are due to different religious sects. Just as we have all debated the meaning of the constitution here so have people debated the writings of Christ. This is not the fault of the bible it is the fault of the people.

Some are whacked out of there skulls with the meanings that they pull from the bible just like the Democrat liberals are whacked out of there skulls when they attempt to pull meaning from the constitution.


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The Bible’s the same thing. Just a campfire story with a God complex.

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You my friend will be spending an eternity in hell and im sorry for you. God have mercy on your soul because you are already dead.

Okay. . .but if the Bible weren't the supposed word of God, people would not be able to use it to force their opinions on the weak minded.

These powermongers use the Bible, the ALL POWERFUL "Holy Word", complete with visions of heaven and hell and the swift wrath of God, to coerce people into doing their bidding.

Evangelism is a billion + dollar industry!

Remove the Bible, and it looses the abiltity lure people with promises of a wonderful afterlife, in exchange for doing the bidding of certain "religious leaders" during their life on earth.

It's just sick.

/php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif you love posting topics like this just to get a rise
so whatever happened to you "claiming" being a Christian?

It was the patriarchal Greco-Roman world that led the Roman Church to its views on the roles of men and women. Early Christians were much more inclusive towards women. The Reformation helped correct some of the false perceptions held by the Roman Church.

Did you also teach your students about ancient Greek and Roman culture, or did you just blame it on the Bible?

So to you the bible is just a peice of ancient litrature written by some old guy and all the hundreds of thousands and millions of Christians worldwide are mindless zombies correct?

"Evangelism is a billion + dollar industry! "

"It's just sick. "

You're right that is sick. Stealing money from the sick and the old. The God I believe in, isn't short of cash.
What they've done is a perversion of Faith, Belief, and Religion.

"I have a vision!..........I Have a Vision!!....... TELEVISION!!!"

Okay.

This is Genesis 1:28 from the KJV:

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And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

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Replenish. So. . .what was here before Adam and Eve? To "replenish" something means to put back what once was.

In Genesis 9:1 in the KJV, it says:

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And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

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Replenish again, but this time, talking to Noah and refering to recreating the civilization he had just wiped out.

Now, is one word a mistranslation? Both words? Neither word? What was here before Adam and Eve then, and how did it get here and what happened to it?

It's just rubbish.

A few points,

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It is also a source of true history of the world

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I really have to disagree with this. Many of the events described in the bible are taken from many other religions (et al) which have an older history (I taking the start date as the birth of Christ, so please don't mention about Genesis). I would agree that the bible is a very good starting point in which to investigatre ancient history, just that's it's not all true. Many stories are parables (sp) and not supposed to be taken literally.

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The bible was not written by men. It is the pure word of God printed on paper by men. Man did not add or subtract from what God intended the bible to say. There are several translations out there most common one being the King James version. It is the closest translation from hebrew to english that you will find today

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The OT and NT was compiled by MAN. It was decided that certain books were "influenced" by God, whereas others were not (for the NT). I most certainly do not believe that it is the "pure word of God". As for language, it wasn't just in Hewbrew (at least for the NT). Also, the translation of old Hewbrew texts is a subject for much debate since it is a language that does not use vowels. The problem from translating old text comes from interpreting the "world" at the time it was written. For example, there are English words used today that had a completely different meaning as little as fifty years ago.

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These diffrences are due to different religious sects. Just as we have all debated the meaning of the constitution here so have people debated the writings of Christ. This is not the fault of the bible it is the fault of the people.

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I agree with this, although as I said before, I would go further and say there are also debates concerning the translation. Just to illustrate, it's a popular perception that the Bible says "thou shalt not kill" (words like that at any rate), whereas it should be "thou shalt not murder". Many similar debates occur with the Qu'ran (which at least has the advantage it is in its original language).

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Remove the Bible, and it looses the abiltity lure people with promises of a wonderful afterlife, in exchange for doing the bidding of certain "religious leaders" during their life on earth.

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To be fair, it does seem that you have seen too many of the tele-evangelist-money-grabbing-lieing-self-publicists, and as such tar everyone with the same brush. Which is just as bad as the people you critcise.

<font color=blue>Replenish. So. . .what was here before Adam and Eve? To "replenish" something means to put back what once was.</font color=blue>

in hebrew its much deeper than what you read in kjv

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary:
1961. hayah ... to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass.
8414. tohuw ... to lie waste; a desolation (of surface).

the world became waste and desolation he didnt create that way at that time
its a much deeper study to understand why it became like this and you would have to reseach the earth ages

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

it wasnt formless and empty in hebrew its clear, it became desolation

just because your frustrated doesnt means its rubish

Show me an honest man or woman of god.

Please.

Look at the wealth aquired by the Catholic Church alone. Not tele-evangelists.

These people poses world "treasures" that they won't show anyone. If we had them in our bedroom closet, the government would take them away because they "belong to the world" and should be shared. They're doing that in Iraq right now!

Look at how the Catholic church uses the Bible to keep women from the priesthood.

It's not looking at specific cases. It's taking in all of it that makes it so bad.

You're proving my point.

Why should anyone read the Bible, or listen to anyone who does, when it obviously is completely irrelevent compared to the original writings?

Are you saying that I should go to church, and listen to someone preach to me about something in the Bible that, because he hasn't studied the ancient writing themselves, is not what God really said?

I'm not debating the ancient writings that the Bible is loosly based on. I'm debating the usefullness of a document that has been tainted by psuedo-intelectuals who have a specific agenda and plan to use God to make it happen.

Everything you just said reinforces my point.

The Bible is CRAP!

The Catholic Church is a political force created by the Emporer Constantine. An organisation with numerous faults, and a construct of man, does not necessarily negate or condemn all who follow it.

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Look at how the Catholic church uses the Bible to keep women from the priesthood

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Which is not the fault of the Bible. It is an example of how an institution uses the Bible.

if it wasnt for the kjv and the excellent concordance wrote by Strong i would have very little understanding of the word so its far from irrelevent

<font color=blue>Are you saying that I should go to church, and listen to someone preach to me about something in the Bible that, because he hasn't studied the ancient writing themselves, is not what God really said?</font color=blue>

its like anything in life, when researching on a subject do you go to one man for your only source? no
why would anyone expect anything different from obtaining the Truth, its not gonna fall in your lap like anything you need to study

<font color=blue>I'm not debating the ancient writings that the Bible is loosly based on. I'm debating the usefullness of a document that has been tainted by psuedo-intelectuals who have a specific agenda and plan to use God to make it happen.

Everything you just said reinforces my point</font color=blue>

i cant disagree with that and even some of those so called scholars have been used by another person with his own agenda to distort the bible and he been at work on that agenda for several generations and he is the best in the business
but to throw out the whole translation and say it sucks would be going way to far

Before you expounded upon your biblical opinion to your class - did they say specifically why they thought women were inferior? Was this just boys giving you some jank as it were - or did the girls think this too?

When I was in school, some of the boys did not think women should get equal rights because they could not die for their country like the boys could. It had more to do with politics than questions of inferiority. Right or wrong, at least that is a specific example. Pose this question to your class again and see what they say.

It deeply concerns me that these students seem to be totally ignorant of the struggle women went through to gain equal representation under the law - particularly your female students. Do they not know why? How would they like to live in a world where your husband owns everything of yours and gets all rights to the kids? If they cannot defend their sex in a simply classroom discussion, how will they handle the workplace - marriage, and so forth?

For example, a male could say to me - "Women can't drive - they're stupid, always talking, and putting on makeup when their eyes should be on the road."

I'd respond to this accusation of inferiority, "Really? then please tell me why is is that insurance companies generaly charge more for male drivers because they are more reckless?"

It also concerns me that the modern feminism movement has lost touch with the common man and woman. Well meaning PC nonsense doesn't help.

Don't forget the Bible gets re-interpreted by almost every church and culture. For example, a Catholic woman in the US enjoys more equal privilages than in the Catholic Spanish flavored machismo countries of Central and South America.

Problem is with the Bible and other religious documents, people tend to focus on more literal aspects - or societal aspects that really have little to do with the message or intent. Also, I figure some chapters (Deuteronomy for instance) was not meant to be taken as holy dogma. And yes, males have long used the Bible as a crutch to suppress women. And Christians are not the only ones - Muslims and Hindus are masters of this.

Thats funny I just recently read somewhere that this exact example is used all the time by those that doubt the scripture in order to cast badlight on the bible give me some time to find the documents I need to explain this Ill get back to you on it

Thank you for that most complete agrument for the word replenish and how it is mistranslated into english

its not completely irrelevent to the original writings. Again this is not a stupid text book from one of your worthless moronic students backpack (moronic and stupid because you teach them)

The Bible is for deep immersive study not light reading to pass a test. Its like most teachers to believe that its just a book and all its good for is to read and take literally

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The Bible is for deep immersive study not light reading to pass a test

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Spot on. You could spend years on the first few books of the OT.....

Actually, it was JUST the girls saying it.

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Don't forget the Bible gets re-interpreted by almost every church and culture.

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Agreed. But this isn't Shakespere. It's (supposedly) the Word of God, and isn't really open to interpretation.

When I was growing up, I was told that the Bible was written on a sixth grade level, so that it was easy to understand. Whether or not this is true, it just goes to the point of how people pull things out of their butt and say it's the truth, and we should respect it's holyness!

Why do we have so many different faiths within the Christian belief if everyone is reading the same Bible?

Why do some worship on Saturday instead of Sunday? Why is dancing okay in some religions and bad in others? The list of differences goes on and on. It's supposedly one Bible, but someone somewhere has some sort of research to support their "belief".

Who exactly do I believe?

Do I believe what the Bible says about keeping the Sabbath holy, and do my worshipping on Saturday? Do I do what the majority of Christians do, which is worship on Sunday? Does baptism require total immersion? Should communion be wine or grape juice?

What happens to us when we die?

I have never me two people that have exactly the same opinion on what happens when we die!

All of these differences can be attributed to the vaguery of the Bible.

Is it an accurate translation and God just didn't feel like being clear? Did the biases (to use a statistics phrase), either known or unknown, lend to the distortion of the TRUE word of God?

Too many questions.

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(moronic and stupid because you teach them)

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lol! /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

[*edit*] Where do people keep getting the idea that I'm a teacher? /php-bin/shared/images/icons/biggrin.gif

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The Bible is CRAP!

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Its odd, im not religious but this statement really struck me as rude. My wife is christian and my two school age children are being raised with that belief system more or less. I say more or less because they know that even though I have the same beliefs as to what is right and wrong, I dont determine right and wrong based on what the bible says. I would hope that you keep your opinions about the bible out of the classroom. In your original post it almost sounded like you might not. Religion is a personal choice and I wouldnt want a teacher telling my kids it was crap anymore than I would want them saying everything in it was fact.

A. God wasnt born he just was.

B.Please give an example of something that happened before the creation of the world as we know it?

C.I agree with you not everythign you read in the bible is true Christ on many occasions uses parables as a means to teach people the meanings behind some of his teachings. But the you cannot say that the bible itself is not a Historical document of past event because it is but its also the story of jesus' life.

D.Yes it was all compiled by MAN thats not What I was saying The Lord God put those words in the writers hands or it was as history played both are acceptable some parts of the bible are actual Written Letters Corinthians for example are the letters written by paul to the church in Corinth Lots of teachings in corithians on how to be a good christian.

E.I agree with your statements on translation as MMII has pointed out with the word replenish however that is why you are to study Gods word and find out what the meanings of today are compared to what the were when it was written

F.I agree with your statements on the kill vs. murder many people use this to get out of war saying that god forbids them to kill Which is not at all right God does not forbid people to go to war in fact he has told armies to go to war and then assisted them in winning. Goto revelations when he speaks of his great return and the Battle of Armageddon(sp) This battle will be God and the Christians against The Anti-Christ and his followers. The end of the Anti-Christ and the begining of Gods 1000 year reign on earth begins with the battle of all battles. A battle to shame all wars.

I'm a Christian, and so are my wife and kids.

If one of the requirements to being a Christian is to not think the Bible is crap, then maybe I need to rethink my affiliation.

The Bible is a good read, and it's interesting, but it's filled with obvious, and some not so obvious, mistakes.

I consider the Bible to be a loose guideline as to what Christianity is. If I want a more stingint guide, I'll do what Owned By OSI (dude you need a nickname) said, and learn the ancient languages and consult the original texts.

You could say the Bible is Cliff Notes for God.

Taking it too literally is simply ridiculous.

(dude you need a nickname)

just call me Owned i dont mind lol

Biblical roles?
When did the Bhagavad Gita and the Koran become integrated into judeo-christian-westernism?

It seems to me that damn near any religion, philosophy or idealogy can and has been used to justify the hierarchy-du-jour. That does not mean that the texts naturally privilege any particular structure, any particular class, race or gender: The fact that these texts have been used by damn near every kind of person in everykind of civilization to justify and pursue disproportionate authority demonstrates the wide interpretability of the texts. You might as well hate your physics book because some people use the words in it to make atomic bombs.

How about GED for genetically enhanced donut? Sweet nick for you GED.

As for the bible being crap....have you read anything by Robert Jordan? Now that is a bunch of crap.

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Remove the Bible, and it looses the abiltity lure people with promises of a wonderful afterlife, in exchange for doing the bidding of certain "religious leaders" during their life on earth.

It's just sick.


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Do you even read the Bible? It doesn't say any of that anywhere in it.
Do yourself a flavor and read it why don'tcha?

What it DOES say though, is to question everything, including those losers that say to give them money in exchange for your afterlife mansion. Jesus Christ Himself went up against those ppl. Did ya know that? Read that one, it's a great 'campfire story'.

In fact, why don't you just read the stuff that Jesus said (usually highlighted in red) if the whole collection of canonical books is too overwhelming for ya.
And if knowing it's the Bible you're reading that bothers you, then slap a cover on it and call it "The Ultimate Chicken Soup for the Soul" hehe pun intended /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif


*edit-- oops forgot a word lol*

LOL Kudos to you for pointing that out about replenishing. I mentioned that to Magdalene the other evening.

You're forgetting something Major, the bards Arthurian legends and chivalry having tremendous influence on how the West has perceived male/female relationships. Pre-Christian Europaganism has a whole lot more to do with
chauvinism than Judeo-Christian theology. You're also forgetting Deborah Ruth Esther Priscilla etc.

The New Testament commands that husbands love their wives as Christ loved the Church cherising nourishing and giving himself up for her. Women are merely commanded to respect their husbands.

You're correct to be bent but you're bent in the wrong direction. Good topic btw.

I agree that organized religion has turned more spirits away from the path of righteousness then to it.

"I work in an elementary school, and *your* tax dollars go directly to my imposing my liberal mindedness on your future leaders"
Are we to assume that you take pride in "imposing" your personal ideologies on our children? Thankfully after 25 years of teaching high school seniors my husband does not feel the same "obligation." He teaches (helps) them to learn and decide for themselves.


As for the rhetoric over superiority. Read a little further what the Creator spoke about this subject.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

Could this mean equalization of/to both man and woman? Personally, that is how it is in our home. My husband and I love each other the way we want to be loved. Works out rather well because we realize everyone loves in thier own way.

"It’s a given. The Bible is a “Goddly” endorsement of their rights to that power."
Oh, really? Where, pray tell us, is that in any biblical translation?

I would agree that most "man wants to be king of thier castle". That goal appears to be a "man"kind of thing. However, it is not the way it is suppose to be for "man"kind. We are not the "king". Man nor Woman.

As for the interpretation of the ("bible") Word, it is suppose to be heard (translated) as our soul "hears" it from His Spirit. That is why we are all different, yet we all are the same. The Word does have a thread that is never broken or frayed. It is for us to read and use as a personal tool. Hopefully to help our constant interpretations of "life."

"Forget the true meaning!"
I would like to know what you think the true meaning is, it might help me understand where you are coming from in your "liberal mindedness."

I sincerely hope that it isn't that: "The Bible is nothing more than a sham document created for the purpose of luring the masses to follow people who otherwise would be nothing more than peons in the world"

For me, a child of our Creator is more than a peon with or without the "bible". I am created in the image of our Creator. And that makes me pretty darn special /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif -- hehhee just ask my family, they will be happy to tell you!!!

"Just a campfire story with a God complex." I had to chuckle a little at this statement. God is complexed. Once I realized that, the the rest became simple for me. Order in a Chaos world.

"Show me an honest man or woman of god. Please."

Major Minor II, please read Proverbs 31
Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price [is] far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
I am proud to say that I try every blessed second of my life to be such a woman!

I do feel sorrow and pity for souls who try to seduce others into doubtful wickedness. He ask us to speak the truth, not to force the truth. His truth needs no force. Truth releases all mankinds hearts free. I pray He comes soon to judge such idleness and that you shall know the peace that His Grace gives.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Not a bad way of life I think! /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

Now I wonder Major Minor II do you also "impose" this side of "mindedness"?

Peace Be With You ... Always &lt;+&gt;&lt;

YukonJack declares that Major Minor II is dead at 04/30/03 02:28PM. “God have mercy on your soul because you are already dead.”
Major Minor II marks his presence at 04/30/03 02:43 PM, and numerous occasions there after.

I have developed several hypotheses to address this apparent contradiction.

1) YukonJack has the 1.21 gigawatts needed to activate the DeLorean’s Flux Capacitor, or has some other time stream tampering device (against the DMCA).
2) Major Minor II is actually dead and it is a double posting/pretending as Major Minor II (Major Minor III?).
3) Major Minor II was resurrected and is now Major Minor Christ II.
4) YukonJack doesn’t know what he is talking as he doesn’t know the difference between being dead and being alive. This puts into question everything YukonJack said up to this point and everything else he might say after.
5) YukonJack got confused and tried to pull an April’s Fool prank on the last day of April instead of the first.
6) YukonJack is simply a liar. Him being a liar puts into question everything he said up to this point, and everything he might say after.

Well, maybe I am wrong, This could be a “God is dead”-Nietzsche “Nietzsche is dead”-God thing. In any case, this anomaly either renders YukonJack’s arguments infertile or prevents us from acting on them due to the danger of disrupting the space-time continuum.

<font color=blue>It seems to me that damn near any religion, philosophy or idealogy can and has been used to justify the hierarchy-du-jour.</font color=blue>

I agree, and following the "logic" I can't really articulate, I'd say that that should help to rationalize how and why they came about.

*** It is also a source of true history of the world. ***

lol. the bible is biased veiw from a very HUMAN follower of the original Christian religion. Like it or now, it was a MAN (not genderspecific) That wrote that book. And men are weak, fallable creatures. So sure, you could probably get some true history out of it, after to pick it apart and compare it to all the other records of that time

It is against my beliefs to actually say that the bible is crap. Lets just say it smells a little funky. And NO i'm not Christian. I would probabaly be as offended as any of you would here if someone called you a pagan, if someone called me a christian.

Originally, i'm sure Christianity was a lovely peace-loving, serene productive belief, i mean Hey, he's a new religion that wouldn't want to make you sacrifice your cattle or crops or anything! Great! But you want to know what happened to warp it? We did. Men got involved and were big headed enough to say they were "Ordained by God" And of course when men get involved, so does money and we all know how well bringing money into a situation works.

1. Adam and Eve: two humans...make from clay..yea sure.
2. Original Sin: Why is it always the woman's fault? And if you think about it, it took the evil snake to confince Eve...all it took for Adam to mow down was a look from eve. So remind me who the weaker sex is...
3. THE CRUSADES...yes, lovely peace loving religion..lets slaughter the pagans, just because they're aren't mindless drones and don't think exactly the way we do.
4. Library of Alexandria: There my friend would you have found the true histories of the world, and remind me again who burnt it to the ground
5. Salem Mass. : .....burning women at the stake, can you feel the love?
6. Joan of Arc: If it had been a man that said he heard god telling him to fight in a war, become the leader. He not only would have been made a Saint 100 years earlier than the catholic church apologized...he wouldn't have been set on fire and probably would have made pope.

9. The world was created in seven days: K i don't have a bible in reach so i don't know exactly what was done which day, but exactly where do dinosaurs fit in there? Animals were made right before man, but we have scientific proof that man was NOT around when the dinosaurs were. And don't give me that crap about "How long is a day to a god?" We wouldn't have the seven days the world was made, if the days were different than what we know them now. We would have, "It took a long friggan time to create world, and some stuff happened when god wasn't looking..like ice ages, dinosaurs, some metours ran into us..took a few thousand years to recover from that...but yea, eventually he got around to finishing the job and made those clay people"
10. Moses (my favorite) lovely story really, one i actually belive most of it. Cept for this part about god doing all those miracles. So if god worked through Moses in doing magical acts. That means any power Moses had came from God. Right? So...why are we supposed to burn witches? Arn't techically they supposed to be getting their *powers* from the original source? oh, right, they get theirs from the devil...forgot. Cuz God doesn't share with women..that would be just wrong. I belive and always will belive in this, Moses was a mage..big stick, water's parting ..yea he was a mage.
11. How many times has the bible been reinterperated? In how many different languages? Are you try to tell me NOTHING has been lost in the translation?? I can barely understand the Asian's that come into my shop when they want something wrapped, and your trying to tell me that something that was written in a dead language (or almost dead) has been written into modern speak with it's point intact?
12. How does a King become ordained by god? What qualities have any of the kings of history possessed that the benevolent and viceless creator decided he could oversee the rest of humanity? I've never read about a good king, or a really good leader.. so I've come to the conclusion that God is a really bad judge of character.

and regardless of what anyone belives, i'm not going to hell because i don't think exactly like you. I refuse. I lead a pretty clean life imho. I don't drink, i don't lie, I don't intentionally cause people pain, and except for this post, i usually don't threaten anothers religious beliefs. I help people out whenever i can, and i recycle... But i don't remember who it was above, but someone said that that Miner was going to hell for his opinion, it kinda ticked me off, because people like you were at the head of every hanging trial, and witch trial. Omg your skin is darker than mine! your different! Omg, you don't follow my beliefs to the letter! Your different! Now that is CRAP.

yes as her daughter i agree she is a very special woman no one out there like her well i think im the closes you can get hehehehe

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Adam and Eve: two humans...make from clay..yea sure.

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The human body is made of the same elements as dirt. Wonder how the author of Genesis knew that.

I like quotes so thought id share some on religion:

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."Thomas Jefferson

"There are two visions of America. One precedes our founding fathers and finds its roots in the harshness of our puritan past. It is very suspicious of freedom, uncomfortable with diversity, hostile to science, unfriendly to reason, contemptuous of personal autonomy. It sees America as a religious nation. It views patriotism as allegiance to God. It secretly adores coercion and conformity. Despite our constitution, despite the legacy of the Enlightenment, it appeals to millions of Americans and threatens our freedom.

The other vision finds its roots in the spirit of our founding revolution and in the leaders of this nation who embraced the age of reason. It loves freedom, encourages diversity, embraces science and affirms the dignity and rights of every individual. It sees America as a moral nation, neither completely religious nor completely secular. It defines patriotism as love of country and of the people who make it strong. It defends all citizens against unjust coercion and irrational conformity.

This second vision is our vision. It is the vision of a free society. We must be bold enough to proclaim it and strong enough to defend it against all its enemies."
Rabbi Sherwin Wine


We will be a better country when each religious group can trust its members to obey the dictates of their own religious faith without assistance from the legal structure of their country. Margaret Mead


Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects? James Madison


When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion. Abraham Lincoln


What is the meaning of human life, or of organic life altogether? To answer this question at all implies a religion. Is there any sense then, you ask, in putting it? I answer, the man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life. Albert Einstein


"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." Benjamin Franklin


Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. Don Hirschberg


"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."
Emo Philips.



In the begining there was nothing and God said 'Let there be light', and there was still nothing but everybody could see it."
Dave Thomas.


What do I believe? As an American I believe in generosity, in liberty, in the rights of man. These are social and political faiths that are part of me, as they are, I suppose, part of all of us. Such beliefs are easy to express. But part of me too is my relation to all life, my religion. And this is not so easy to talk about. Religious experience is highly intimate and, for me, ready words are not at hand.
Adlai E. Stevenson

2. Original Sin: Why is it always the woman's fault? And if you think about it, it took the evil snake to confince Eve...all it took for Adam to mow down was a look from eve. So remind me who the weaker sex is...


The Original Sin was Pride. And that was Satan's shortcoming.

Eve is very reminiscent of Pandora of Greek fame. (unleashing the world's sorrows and troubles from a tiny box. or in Eve's case an apple from the tree of Knowledge)

The Lesson taught in the story of Pandora, is that the last thing to come out of the box was Hope. and the Bible teaches the same for us. It gives us Hope.

Through all of our shortcomings and failures, through our pain and suffering, we are given Hope.

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"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."
Emo Philips.


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omg RFLMAO!!!

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The human body is made of the same elements as dirt. Wonder how the author of Genesis knew that.

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oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, magnesium, iron, fluorine, zinc, silicon, rubidium, strontium, bromine, lead, copper, aluminum, cadmium, cerium, barium, iodine, tin, titanium, boron, nickel, selenium, chromium, manganese, arsenic, lithium, cesium, mercury, germanium, molybdenum, cobalt, antimony, silver, niobium, zirconium, lanthanum, gallium, tellurium, yttrium, bismuth, thallium, indium, gold, scandium, tantalum, vanadium, thorium, uranium, samarium, beryllium, tungsten

These are the elements that make up the human body. Its a little more than potting soil. a person with limited observation skills could watch a body decompose,and basically become dirt. "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return"

Hmm I see. So it was a really good guess. Kinda like the guess that life started when lightning hit the Primordial Ooze. Any links to show why no one has been able to recreate that?

Im not saying it was a really good guess nor am I saying that life started by an electrical strike in primordial ooze(so no I dont have any links). I am saying that there is nothing in that statement that isnt something one can observe, then or now. Also about the primordial ooze thing I would say the elemental make-up of the human body is more similar to sea water (primordail ooze?) than dust.

I dunno what Christians you're listening to, but the pastor and his son whom I listen to fairly regularly, frequently state "Women are the strongest gender" and other lofty appraisals. I'm also Christian and I surely have never thought women were inferior. And Jesus surely didn't think females were inferior, otherwise he would have ignored them in favor of the men, but the bible states time after time that he treated all equally, and stating they are all God's children, each and every one. Though there are parts in the bible people can and do latch onto to support their own selfish purposes, for one reason or another. And it depends upon O.T. or N.T. and which bible. And which country and or background. They haven't caught up with the rest of the world... still think women are lesser because they must "cover their heads" (which in fact, covering heads has nothing to do with sin but for protection when the giant evil angels come again to earth and try to seduce and mate with mortal females -- in other words, "Keep the veil of Christ over your head = protection.")

&gt;Evangelism is a billion + dollar industry!

I agree with that! Which is why I enjoy watching the pastors whose every word or every other word does NOT precede and end with $'s. What is that evangelist who is still on, Tiltman or Titterman (I almost typed Titman) or Thomas somebody or other? (I think I purposely block out his name, he is so disagreeable to me!) Every time I happen to find him on TV late at night he is ALWAYS ALWAYS <font color=red>ALWAYS</font color=red> asking for money, threatening people if they want to improve in life they MUST pick up phone and call in their <font color=red>MONEY</font color=red>. He makes me utterly sick. I growl and snort and glower and am furious that men like him still hang on to ruin the good name of Christianity -- and then I surf by, to someone better. I honestly get the feeling the man is "possessed" -- by what, I'm not sure -- but that's the feeling I get. I could be wrong, and if I am, I will apologize to him. However, he gives me the creeps!!!!

GED /php-bin/shared/images/icons/uhoh.gif funny stuff lol careful man nick names like that can stick

but for me its more like Genetic Freak or "Freakzilla" you know like Big Papa Pump
WHos Yo Daddy !?

Note: We've all been scattered into the lands of "Babble" -- scattered, confused, unable to understand one another. Open your heart and listen. It'll translate that of those who have likewise opened and listen. Many of the most important things in life go beyond words.

"Women are the strongest gender"

In the Beginning when God was creating you'll notice that each creation was greater and more magnificent than the one that preceded it..... Like an artist creating a master piece, not quite satisfied until He gets it just right.

The last thing He created was Woman. She is the Pinnacle of God's creation.

&gt;The last thing He created was Woman. She is the Pinnacle of God's creation.

Which would explain, why woman can love man in spite of how man has mistreated womankind.

Yeah, and I want a piece of rib tonight... Hmm.../php-bin/shared/images/icons/laugh.gif