Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by popps, Aug 15, 2009.
*does best popps whining imitation*
It's too haaaaaaaarrrrd. I don't wanna try.
In other words, the answer to my question is 'no'. You have no intention of seeing whether the measures taken by the developers to alleviate this problem have had any effect.
Yes it probably would take a lot.. but then again you could also stop being so afraid and go to Fel once in a while.
Seriously, popps. Go play World of Warcraft as they cater for the masses, casuals get everything.
*Level up your character (alone)
*Level up your 2 professions (alone)
*Gear up your character with EPIXXX (crafted/bought -> alone)
*Earn money by doing quests/selling loot (alone)
*Kill lower level characters to earn Honor (alone)
So, there you go. No need for a guild as you can DoItAllByYourSelf™.
Power scrolls are already available in trammel via IDOCs; When I was Idocing use to sell 100's on power scrolls per week from IDOCs.
If you want everything available in in Trammel perhaps you should try a new game like Carebears online, or some other game that has no PvP aspect at all.
Sorry but I had to lol
Oh man, with a post title like that I thought this was going to be something wrong on an epic level, like: You fools! Gargoyles weren't in Ultima, you used the wrong game!
You just gave me get a warm fuzzy inside that the most "controversial" thing so far is giving players a reason to keep sub-120 scrolls
The posts above have done an excellent job explaining what Scroll Binders do and why they're a useful addition to the game, especially in a (fingers-crossed) post-ghost world.
As far as jewelry boxes, seed cases, and the like - they're definitely things we'd love to do, but weren't in scope for the expansion. Luckily, we've got a great team here who really cares about improving the live game, so stay tuned!
Meanwhile, well done on giving me a panic attack with the post title though, heckuva way to wake up! Well done!
Whatever the reason, if things have not changed over so many shard for so many years, that is a fact with which it is necessary to deal with.
It is not important the why that players give up trying to break the monopoly, what is important is that on most if not all shards monopolies have been allowed to persist for all of these years.
This is what makes it an issue worthy of developers' attention.
Now, they have a chance to do something good for most players with Scroll binders but one more change is needed first to make this feasible, add 110 and 115 PS spawn to Trammel.
Oh Lord...Awesome Post.
Love the Avatar too!@!
That is REALLY not disappointing.
It's REALLY not!!
Seriously, responding to a popps-rant, Draconi? Don't you have an expansion to be working on?
Where's my Kittygoyle? huh?
Sssshhhhh! Don't say that! I'm trying to pass this off as work!
*points desperately at GrimmOmen and runs away*
Well, Scroill binders "could" be a great addition to the game catering to the vaster majority of players but they first need another change to the game, bringing 110 and 115 Powerscrolls to Trammel.
Trying to use only 105s to make a 120 would be a helpless task needing too many of them and those who have been hoarding powerscrolls in Felucca now will hold onto the lower ones just like it was for 120s.
So, please, make the Scroll binders change complete by adding 110s and 115s as well as minor stat scrolls up to +20 to trammel, also.
U.Hall never ceases to give me a hearty chuckle.
Now that this thread has officially degraded into yet another "WHY CANT WE GET POWERSCROLLS IN TRAMMEL" can it be moved to Rants?
The "vast majority" of people reading this think you're a scaredy-cat.
What Draconi said
But aside from that, I would appreciate feedback from you guys as far as the number of scrolls required when binding (too low, too high, just about right?).
Also, if you bind SoTs you must go to 10.0 pts. Feedback from closed beta testers strongly suggested going to 5.0 pts instead, which is also where I'm leaning so expect that change to likely go in.
On a slightly off topic, while as Draconi said seed jars didn't make the expansion, you will be able to stack seeds of the same color/type when SA launches. This should already be available for testing on Retribution and work retroactively on seeds obtained pre-SA.
Oh! I see where there's confusion now.
It actually works *exactly* as you're requesting, already (Sakkarah is one step ahead of you!)
Skill Power Scrolls
105's can be combined to make 110's
110's can be combined to make 115's
115's can be combined to make 120's
Stat Power Scrolls
+5's can be combined to make +10's
+10's can be combined to make +15's
+15's can be combined to make +20's
+20's can be combined to make +25's
Scrolls of Transcedence
Can have scrolls of the same skill combined to a given level
Additionally, individual binders of the same type can be combined. So say you find a scroll binder with (3) 105 Magery on one vendor, and (4) 105 Magery on another - you can combine them into a (7) Magery, and then find some more magery powerscrolls until you create a 110.
Oooh! Hi Sak!
Forgot about this - Sakkarah and one of our awesome engineers went out of their way to track down stacking code problems so more stuff would stack in SA
I hope they left nice comments in the code.
See Popps...most everyone HAS learned to deal with it.
I go out and do PVM, get cool things that PvPers like (Artifacts, Armor, Weapons, and Other Stuff) and then I sell these Artifacts and other Desirables to Fel PvPers, who pay handsomely.
They don't really even hunt a lot of this stuff.
You know why?
They are busy getting Power and Stat Scrolls at Champ Spawns...they just don't have time to get out and do PVM, or they don't care for PVM and they don't do it!!
So I am their "Go Between". I help them out. And they help me out too.
Then, with the gold they so generously give me? I buy Power and Stat Scrolls!!
It works Gloriously! It is a Symbiotic Relationship Made in Heaven!!
I don't enjoy any game experience where people can cheat to gain an unfair advantage, so I don't PVP at all. I just PVM. Not all PVPers cheat, but there certainly are some that do, so I just avoid it all.
But after all these many years of playing, I have learned that as long as I can find a way to achieve a goal in game (like Power and Stat Scrolls...all 120s for all my players...all max stats) that doesn't violate the laws of God or Man, and allows me to enjoy the game as I do so I will pursue it.
I can tell you this: You lose lots of cred as you whine about the "Unfairness" of UO, on these boards, whether you want to accept that fact, or not, is entirely up to you. But it is a fact.
Especially when you make up things to "Disappoint" you.
Malagaste does have it right...the Zerg Guilds will control the scrolls for binding...but then...they already do control those. But, in the end, there will be more 120s. There just will be. And maybe the price will stay the same. But i have a feeling with more on the market, and more that can be made, that the prices could actually drop for PS, and that wouldn't be a bad thing for Non-Champers, I don't think.
I figure the best thing I can do is get out there and do stuff I enjoy in game, to get the gold, to buy the items that are received for doing things I don't want to do.
That sure makes sense to me. And I sure don't expect anyone to put Power Scrolls or Stat Scrolls in Tram. And if they throw a few classes a bone (cooks, etc) by creating these binders then even better I say!
So really Popps...do yourself a favor. Research...be objective...use logic.
Emotion has it's place, and I will be the very last person to tell you NOT to be passionate about something.
Just make sure that "Something" is really real...and listen with an open mind for signs you COULD be wrong...it will help a lot...it REALLY will.
Check the Gargoyle Pet construct in tinkering
I can tell you an answer to this one even without logging in. I trade in SoTs...I buy them up at low prices, hang on to them if the market is flooded, and resell them when the time is right. As such, I have a much higher than average stockpile of SoTs than most people. Even so, I doubt I have more than 10 points of SoTs in more than 3 different skills. It would take an "average" player years to accumulate 10 points worth of SoTs in most skills...at that threshold, binders will be used only by dealers like myself who are long-term speculating on skills that they think may get revamped in the future (taste id, camping, etc.). Honestly, even 5 points is really too high -- if it has to be a set value, I'd put the bar at 2 points.
A bit of further elaboration on why 2 points makes more sense than 5 or 10 points. People generally aren't struggling with storage for .9 point or 1 point SoTs. The reason that people want a mechanic like scroll binders is all the .1s and .2s and .3s sitting around...they take up a lot of space very quickly, and their prices are shockingly devalued compared to the nearly-full-point scrolls (especially for something that should have a very linear value). This, of course, further devalues the Trammel-acquired scrolls, etc. But so anyway, the point (at least as far as I see it, although I think this is probably a pretty common sentiment) is just to have something to gather up all the little tailings into something storable, sellable, and generally manageable, moreso than have something to construct "uber-sots" out of.
I agree even 5 is very high. 2 or 3 seems like a good number.
Allowed by the players. No one else is guilty.
The Devs should get involved because players are too lazy to do something? I tell ya, we're running out of silver platters.
Or.......you could actually go to Fel and get the scrolls yourself. Yes, that would require you to actually DO something instead of having it handed to you. Maybe you should just go play test center permanently. That way you can have everything in game simply by typing a few words, unless that's too hard for you too.....
I certainly think this a a great change, not trying to throw too much cold water on it, but it will probably not make 120's sell for the cost of 1000 105's.
It remains to be seen how much price of the 120's will adjust down or if the price of the low end ones will adjust up to equal current levels of 120 pricing.
I suspect it will meet somewhere in the middle, but keep in mind that there is a fair amount of pent up demand for 120's that is restrain now only due to price.
One only has to look at lottery, opps... I mean BOD prices to see the example of this.
I love you...seriously
They can't charge the "ridiculously inflated prices" forever though - because by the very nature of the game there will be more and more scrolls as time goes on - it will just get to a point where they'll have to start selling them for less just to get them sold. Although short term there might be problems, I think in the long run it will work out (as many scrolls have now, after years of champ spawns - I remember a time when taming scrolls cost millions, but now even the 115 I bought a couple of weeks ago didn't cost that much).
Herein lies the true motive. Pity, so much wasted energy and BS to get to this. Should have just said it to begin with.
As the developers have been saying, and many of your fellow players as well, not everything is set in stone, yet. That's what beta is for. Developers implement an idea and put it out there for input (i.e. whining ad nauseum won't further your cause, simply stating your pro/con along with its reasons/rationale will suffice.)
So you see, you have a chance, just like anyone else, to get your suggestions implemented.
How about getting a clue and being less of a drama queen... thank you very much.
OMG Sak Sak you're my hero!!!! "The stacking will work on seeds obtained pre-SA."
*Visions of mega free storage space dances in her head.*
You made my Saturday....my weekend....my week!!!
I got that part of combining scrolls.
The REAL question though is, are 110s and 115s going to be made spawning in Trammel then ?
To my knowledge, as of now only 105s spawn in Trammel and unless you make at least also 110s and 115s spawn in Trammel the Scroll binders change will not be of much use to the general public since the Felucca spawns will still be off limits for many......
Only if you allow 110s and 115s to spawn in Trammel as well as +5,10,15 and 20 Stat scrolls THEN the Scroll binders will indeed become that great a change they have the potential to be.
When I first heard about the scrolls of binding, I immediately reacted much as popps and Malagaste did. But after a day or so of considering it, I decided it might not be such a bad idea. I'd overlooked the fix for ghost cams. I decided I need to give that change and maybe some others (e.g., more spawns to distract/divide people going for PS) a chance AND also make myself go do more champ spawns in Fel. The folks I play with do them / raid them regularly and I'm usually just too chicken to jump in and join them.
I do want to learn to PvP. But as with many other things in UO, I haven't really applied myself yet to learning how to do it. Why? Because I might fail. I might die. Someone might call me names. I might lose some gear.
So what?! Is it the end of the world? Nope, not at all. At worst, it's an inconvenience. I just haven't completely wrapped my head around it yet. Maybe this change will give me the incentive to get there. If not, it sure will give me the incentive to get out and make more gold because I kind of like the idea of having all my characters scrolled to 120s in everything. Who knows when that might come in handy. I've never ever had a problem with paying someone else to do something in UO that I don't enjoy doing. Collecting power scrolls is one of those things. I'm just usually too distracted by all my characters to do a lot of gold collecting.
And besides....get this change working well and who knows what else will come next. Yes, perhaps it is a blatant way to cater to the PvPers. But they need to keep playing UO and paying those subscription fees. Much as some people wish they would go away (and I'm not one of them), they are important to this game continuing to exist and I truly believe their existence provides much-needed tension that helps keep the UO world spinning.
Has he been whining about this all night and all morning? jeez Find something that is honestly broken and then complain.
Since the ghosts in Fel were taken care of on one of our last publishes, I know plenty of people who are "sneaking" spawns in.
Honestly, I don't think this will effect the market for a little while. I mean I could be wrong, but most guilds I know dont keep 105's, 110's and some dont even keep 115's, so what are the chances someone is going to start flooding the market right away?
Most guilds throw them on the ground after the spawn and they decay or a random stealther might come by and pick them up. I know I normally drop mine on the ground at the spawn or even in Luna bank.
I could be wrong and there could be a few out there that have saved every 110 and 115 they ever got and will make a few 120's right off, but in the long run scroll prices will go down.
Hell, 120 Magery is already down anyway. A year ago they were 15-16mil.. now I can find them as low as 10-11mil on most shards.
Plus, even if people combine them to make the more profitable scrolls, how long is that going to take? How often do you get a 115 magery or even a 110 at a spawn, once every couple of months? It's going to take awhile and when it happens, I see there being a drop in price since more people will be able to make them.
*edit* did I actually read that some seeds are going to be stackable? *thinks of all the lockdown space I'm going to gain* yay! Thank you for that. It is much needed and much appreciated!
just a general reminder to the thread to play nice - even if a particular poster causes frustration, remember that Draconi and Regine are looking for feedback here, and sinking into fights over posting doesn't help them at all.
Wonderful. I know trying to fix that coding must of being troublesome.
Just like a few Guilds had control of 120s, now there will be control of all type scrolls bindable in 120s.
More 120s on the market ?
And what if those in control to keep prices high just put them away and don't sell them ?
I have a feeling that what really brought 120s prices a little down was those players who had enough of those Guilds and transferred to unpopulated shards where they farmed for 120 scrolls for weeks and then transferred them to their shard for selling.
If it was for Guilds, I feel, prices would still be high because Power Scrolls are a HUGE source of revenue in this game. Maybe not as huge as they once was but still...
I would have hoped that after years and years of this state of things not changing finally, the Developers saw that some action would be necessary but releasing Scroll Binders without also adding 110 and 115 PSs as well as +5, +10, +15 and +20 stat scrolls to Trammel will not change anything from before.
All PS whether major or minor will still be a Monopoly of a few Guilds who will keep the prices under their control and all other players will just need to sit and watch.
No, organizing seems NOT possible. If it ever was, it would HAVE happened over the years but it has not.
This shows, at least to me, that the problem is BEYOND players' solution.
Unless the Developers do something to better Scrolls' spawn in Trammel, Scrolls of Binders, as I see it, will not change much the status quo, unfortunately.
Like I said before. Very good work on searching for that messy code. Sakkarah probably want to retire early after a search like that. MY head spins just looking at old coding for more than 10min. Remmember to get Sakkarah a little bonus
Excuse me ?
If minor scrolls up to 115 and stat up to +20 were allowed to spawn in Trammel they would STILL require work wouldn't they ?
How's that asking anything on a silver platter when still one would have to deal with the Champ Spawn and WORK for one's own earnings ?
I really fail to see your point.
Power Scroll Binding isn't worth the effort.
10 105s to make a 110
10 110s to make a 115
10 115s to make a 120
From 105s you need 1,000 to make a 120
From 110s you need 100 to make a 120
From 115s you need 10 to make a 120
The only one that might make sense is turning 110s into a 115. Having 10 115s is likely worth more than the 120 itself. So just sell those and buy the 120.
In general I don't like this system because they've already made it a lot easier to get 120s at spawns. If they try and adjust the numbers down it is going to kill the reason people do Felucca champions. We already have problems with farmers for the Transcendence scrolls (no risk all reward), now they will be able to farm 105s too.
Well, if the Developers complete their Scroll binders changes adding to it the spawn of minor scrolls to Trammel Champ spawns of 110 and 115 Power Scrolls as well as +5, +10, +15 and +20 Stat scrolls, leaving only the best as exclusive for Felucca (120 PSs and +25 Stat scrolls) I will be the first in line to say kudos to them and congratulate for the great new addition.
Only adding more scrolls to Trammel Champ spawns will actually make the Scroll binders really affective to the vast majority of players, IMHO.
I will sit and wait to see. I wonder if I should keep my fingers crossed or not, though......
Powerscrolls do not belong in Tram. You wouldnt have to work as hard for it in Tram, but IF they were ever made available in Tram, bet your *** I'll find a way to make life miserable for you and find a way to make you work for them. You can still "raid" in Tram.
My suggestion is this... start a guild for spawning and maybe learn a little pvp along the way OR join a guild that has the capability to spawn. Visit Fel a few times.. hang out in t2a and see how many people you actually see. My bet is, you might see a few now and then, but there would probably be enough time to sneak a spawn in here and there while they arent looking.
Btw... what shard are you on that this wouldnt be possible?
How can one farm 105s for a 120 ?
I mean, getting 1,000 of all the same 105s ? Unfeasible, IMHO.
The only chance is if Trammel gains also 110s and 115s together with +5, +10, +15 and +20 leaving only the best ones, 120 PSs and +25 stat scrolls as exclusive of Felucca.
Otherwise, this change will only be of benefit to the same few Guilds who for years have kept a Monopoly of the Power scrolls.
oh ho ho...all you need do is explore sir! perhaps a bit of *tinkering* around and you might *quest* your way right into em! Give Sutek my regards will you?
AWESOME News indeed!!! There is so much in this expansion.
Oh, not sure where to post this, but there seems to be a nasty recall
crash bug today.
Listen, over so many shards and most of all so many years, this has hardly ever happened.
If it has not happened much at all for so long, it will not happen. Whatever the reasons may be, the time passed is just too much for me to think that such a possibility is even thinkable.
Players alone have been unable for YEARS on MANY shards to break these Monopolies.
This is a fact, like it or not.
And when players are unable to find a way out but yet suffer from the circumstances, I think it DOES BECOME a developer team's responsibility to find that way out for those players who have been not able to find a solution themselves for YEARS and on many shards.
Wut chu talkin bout poops? In the last two years I can think of a dozen or so guilds on my shard alone that have either gone from the bottom to the top or from teh top to the bottom. However I will say that it takes more than just board warrioring to make a good guild...and for the most part takes a lot less wine and a lot more cheddah.
@Sak...10 is too many and 6 to 7 seems about right to make the next level of scroll. That is considering time it takes to gather said scrolls. Seems the end result is to make more 20s, but the market for people looking for 10s and 15s is going to get very dry. Beyond the dryness, one can only speculate on what will happen.
Hey dont blame us we figured a way to do spawns we win some we loose some but in the end we get together work together and just do it, teamwork= success. Its not our fault your incapable or unable to attempt a champ they are not designed for solo play but for guilds and groups. Funny how we are considered the minority but the minority are the only ones who have the chanoies to work the spawns. In the end I would rather risk a couple k insurance for a chance at a 120mage.
I only read a bit of this thread - enough to know that someone DID correct your misconception.
1 - Scroll Binders can be used with SOT's to combine them and make them more user-friendly or seller friendly. Everyone can get SOT's.
2 - ANYONE can do the first level or two of a spawn and take their 105's and SOT's and get out of dodge before they get raided. Do this a few times a day and you will eventually build up to a 120 scroll. So it DOES make scrolls more open to the "rest" of the comunity.
3 - Being a Henny Penny only makes people want to put you on their ignore filter.