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120 mining

Discussion in 'UHall' started by flappy6, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    maybe find t-maps easier

    easier to find val ingots and gems

    find kool artifacts rare stuff though not someting you get everytime you dig(maybe even some of old artifacts we have)(unbreakable pickaxe?)(kool rare bones for deco or used to remove a property from armor or weapons)(ring or wearable item that give you a 500hp force field but breaks after that)( bracelet or item that allows you to walk on water ,timer maybe?)
     
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  2. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    Hmmm I notice a trend with your posts.... Why must every skill have a 120?
     
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  3. King_Fisher

    King_Fisher Journeyman
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    I would be happy just to have a better chance at finding/smelting higher quality ores. Don't need the archaeologist fluff.
     
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  4. Bman

    Bman Seasoned Veteran
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    I think it would be nice if it helped to increase your smelting success on the higher level ores - Agapite, Verite, and Valorite. They are already hard enough to locate then lose about half of what you have found during the smelting process. I have a pile of each of the higher level ore just waiting for something like this to happen - even a talisman or a scroll buff to improve the chances would be nice.

    Of course any added incentive would also be nice at a higher level of mining - increase in gem production, increase in crystallized blackrock, increase in higher level ore spawns, reduced weight, etc.

    I like the idea and it has my vote!
     
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  5. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    For the same reason that all support skills for Warriors/Spell Casters/Tamers are at 120. Could you just hear the outcry if you could only 120 Primary Skill only, no more Anatomy, Animal Lore, Chivalry, Discordance, Evaluating Intelligence, Focus, Healing, Meditation, Parrying, Peacemaking, Provocation, Resisting Spells, Spirit Speak, Stealth, Tactics and Veterinary

    Give Crafters PS 120s for all of thier support skills as rewards from crafting only, no spawn drops.
     
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  6. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    If a 120 scroll is made for a skill it damn near always makes 100 skill in that skill use-able. All making 120 scrolls for for currently skills capped at 100 does is forces people to up to 120.

    Yay for making GM skill useless in the real game and forcing people to jump through hoops to get to 120! Especially in skills when there really is no need to force people to jump through hoops.
     
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  7. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    No one is trying to force anybody to 120. 120 would just give better chances for crafters to do thier craft just like everybody else.

    Sure would be nice to 120 these as most are Primary Crafting or Support Skills for Crafting.
    Now why is it that all other class of chars get 120 Support Skill Scrolls but crafting is left out?
    You do understand that without crafters none of you would have anything to play with.
     
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  8. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    Anyone that does have the time / ability / money to get to 120 gets left behind at a disadvantage to those with money / excessive time.

    See my sig. My main is a tinker. Before that I was a fisher, before that a thief. Thieves lost out to insurance (though I till play him sometimes). Gave up on Fishing because the 120 scroll was well beyond my reach as a normal player. If Tinker gets 120 and its un-atainable by normal folk, I will be turning tail and leaving UO again.

    As it stands I have stopped playing scince the tinker announcement the other week because I am waiting to find out if my Tink is going to be left with an impossible goal.

    Yo do understand some people cannot devote their lives to playing a game right?
     
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  9. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    If these are rewards for Crafters then I will do as I have always done.
    Pre Pub 16 Worked for tips.
    Pre AoS Worked for tips and supplied 120s for what ever you could afford.
    For the most part a simple TY was all that was required. Most people always gave what they could and I have even been paid by others for doing a good deed. That is the way I was tought to play a crafter almost 15 yr ago and I still do it.
     
  10. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    120 camping would be completely imbalancing almost the whole game, but I surely would like that.

    Maybe if a legendary camper logs out, the computer should be shut down as well. After all he is legendary.
     
  11. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    I just copied over the non-120 skills. Should have cleaned it up a bit. Ty for the good laugh. Crawls back in my tent.
     
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  12. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I see no benefit in my skills suddenly requiring an extra 20 points to be fully effective. Why jump through higher hoops for other skills just because someone thinks 120 sounds like a good number? 120 is just a big con. You just move the goal that used to be GM forward 20 points and throw in a few token things that require the new skill level. Lots of players fall for it and are acquiring/buying up the scrolls to basically keep their skills at the same level and get a magic 120 badge. I'm amazed that some folks still seem to fall for this after all these years. I'm all for adding some challenge, but not scrolls...

    Crafters have already had to squeeze in skills like arms lore and imbuing, rather than have their existing crafting skills enhanced in allowing them to imbue directly and make the best gear. That has a big impact on a crafter template, particularly if you collect your own resources and have both gathering and crafting skills in one character. I'm not sure how many crafters have a few hundred spare skill points, but I've never been one of them ;) Adding powerscrolls to what is already a tight squeeze is just going to result in a huge amount of inconvenience as players switch between more characters to perform what 1 character used to do himself. Or soulstone shuffle it. My crafters are just gathering their materials and crafting, not mega mules. But they cannot fit in more skill points, it's simple as that. They couldn't fit in 1 skill at 120 to accommodate either tailoring or smithing, so there's no chance they'll take up any other 120s lol. Because adding 120 skill means taking from something else, for no extra benefit. Because as I said above, the goalposts just move and you lose more than you gain. Once you see that, you stop hanging on to the notion that 120 is something special.

    I would like to see powerscrolls nuked entirely, in favour of a hard skill cap (yup, an actual cap which items can't exceed) and leave the only training route to be a player's time and dedication. Powerscrolls are just the inconvenience and cost before you can finish a character. Make training more fun and involved and pleasant, get rid of the scrolls because they just don't work IMHO.

    My no vote applies to adding powerscrolls to ANY skill that lacks them currently. It's a con, nothing more. They were a lousy idea when they arrived and they're just as lousy now. There is no template that will benefit from shifting GM forward 20 points. But I'm sure we can all think of more constructive fixes and additions to enhance other skills.

    Wenchy
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'd rather not go 120.... But one thing I'd like is some way to get more stone. I'm tired of searching high and low for stone. And I'd like to see new rewards and such..... but I think the archeology ought to be better under say a treasure hunter.
     
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  14. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Well Power Scrolls have been here for over 10 yrs (July 2002) and guess what, only 1 Crafting related PS has been added, Imbuing and Fishing. Yet with every new skill added after that we get 120s for all of them. It is time the Crafters got a lot of love, too. You can still do your job at 100, you will just be even better at it at 120.
     
  15. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I would like a 120 inscription power scroll in addition to mining.
     
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  16. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    Its not crafter love. Its a pain in the bottom. If you are better at 120, whats the point in GM? Such as imbuing? Or if Arms lore was 120? Whos gonna buy your stuff, when it can be made better by richer players or players who have an excess of time?

    If 120 is the norm, then like Wenchkin said, powerscrolls should be nuked from the game entirely and 120 should just be the hard cap.
     
    #16 Stickypaws, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
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  17. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    If you need ANY mining to find a treasure map spot shouldn't be a treasure hunter. Simply give me your maps as I do not ever use mining and find the spots ALWAYS within three tries and clear my level six chests in just a few minutes then I'm off to the next one. If your on GL and cannot handle the map spots feel free to drop any maps in my mailbox!

    P.S. I love fel maps, any level.
     
  18. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    So when 255 Stats became the norm should we have then tossed out all Stat Scrolls?

    Even if they changed things to 120 there still needs to be PS in the game for them. Sorry if you are scared of fel and can't get them yourself.
     
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  19. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    So you want just an individual skill hard-cap or both a hard-cap for each skill and a collective hard-cap (example, all skills individually max out at 120, all combined skills max out at 720, the use of +skill items will not allow you to go over the 720 collective skill cap). Am I correct to assume this is what you mean?

    If so it is total crap.

    My crafters use +skill jewels for odd-ball stuff that only need a few points. You complain there is already not enough room for a crafters template yet you want changes that would restrict their templates even more? I find that a bit odd.

    Remembering that I am not an advocate of making everything 120 (nor am I against it as long as done for the right reasons) I do not believe that raising a skill cap to 120 "takes away" from your other skills. It is all on how you manage and build your template/armor/items etc.
     
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  20. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    For the second time in this thread, I wish people read sigs... 7 character slots, I list 2 in my sig and nobody manages to notice.

    My other main is a thief & scince when have crafting powerscrolls been available from Fel? o_O
     
    #20 Stickypaws, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  21. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Having a those char doesn't mean much. I have a thief too!

    Anyways. Crafting related PS should be available in Fel only. Questing for PS is stupid.
     
  22. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Smiths and tailors got their bits of paper too. The lucky ducks have to brave the thrills of BODs to get them. My crafters weren't thrilled. Like with my fisher I had no skill points spare and the skill I once had trained to it's cap was devalued. If I want those skills at their best I need to mess up some good established templates. That is not love.

    I had a couple of accounts of characters all at the top of their skills. I now have none who are maxed out in all of their skills. None. 3 skills (yes, just 3) are trained to 120 on my tamer. Just to keep her at max skill for that profession. Either I screw up my templates or I accept less effective skills, so I reluctantly chose the latter because it frees me to do something enjoyable instead.

    We certainly don't need PS for a skill to have it given some love. I'd quite happily return to a GM cap with maximum effectiveness than the farce we have now. I've yet to see a compelling argument that made me agree a skill should get PS. It seems to come more like "can we have x new stuff if we agree to having PS for that skill?" That's like putting your life savings on the table before you start haggling prices with a car salesman. Some skills need love, not PS, just love :)

    Wenchy
     
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  23. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    [​IMG]
     
  24. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    We have a "total skill cap" which is the 720 that just about everyone rushes past loaded with jewels. I want to see a cap which is an actual cap, that items cannot exceed. I'd be ok with 720 as I work to that level when I can anyway, but if it's higher within reason I'm ok with that. I realise many players rely heavily on skill boost items nowadays. But the skill cap would then be achievable for everyone, not just those with the right template to max out with items. You could use real skill instead of items which would free up choices in equipment as you wouldn't have to incorporate + skill. You could use it eg while you trained up taming, but then items wouldn't be needed. It would also be easier for a player to figure out what skills they could use at what level in a template if they had to just consider the total skill cap and individual skill caps in their workings. No more memorising all the skill+ items and what equipment slot they take lol.

    The skill cap itself... I'd be happy to go back to GM but I doubt anyone else would. So 120 or whatever. But no more scrolls, that's your skill cap you just train the skills up. If the champs need a different reward, I'm sure one can be found.
    Well if you have a trained character which was as effective as it could be, had a good mix of 7 skills at GM then suddenly all these scrolls arrive that mean you need to lower/nuke some of those skills to maintain that "maxed" out character, with fewer skills...that's not a good thing to me. My characters weren't broken, content could have been added for their skills at GM level. Unless you ignore acquiring scrolls, training skills and rearranging characters, it has a negative impact on any player with that skill. "Oh I need to get a scroll... ok now to go train and hmm, I'll need to get those skill points from items maybe..."

    Wenchy
     
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  25. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I have a better idea....

    How about no additional crafting PS, but allowing crafters (have to have at least 200 points in crafting skills) to designate ONE of the non-PS crafting skills as a specialty (As per bardic specialties), that allows it at GM, to function as if 120 skill? Such specialties would require non-combat quests to switch between (as the Bardic specialties once did).

    Take the following list, and pick one
    Mining
    Bowcraft/fletching
    Carpentry/Masonry
    Alchemy/Glassblowing
    Tinkering
    Inscription (for crafting only, not SDI bonus)
    (possibly Cooking as well)

    Bonuses for being a specialist -
    • Able to take an existing crafting tool for their skill(s) and alter it into a runic (the higher the runic, the higher the investment). Failure chance is high, but would be MUCH more likely of success than a Heartwood/Royal City runic drop from a quest (say, 10-25%, depending on the strength of the runic).
    • Miners could change pickaxes and sledgehammers into Gargoyle's Pickaxes and Prospector's tools, respectively (much higher chance than runic creation for the other skills). If the miner specialist is also a Treasure Hunter, would actually be able to see the chest spot (note that this would require that about half said T-hunter's skills would be in crafting and T-hunting, meaning that you'd probably only see this for mage/TH with inscription and mining)
    • Skill checks will be done as if 120 skill, not 100 (this includes recycling smith-made items, that base the ingot return on the Mining skill level)
    • Tinkering, carpentry/masonry, Fletching, Glassblowing and Inscription would be able to recycle their rejects for a random amount of the base material per item (not exceeding 50%), allowing recovery of materials for further crafting. Miners would be able to recycle any metal (smith or tinker) item this way (but would be better off to use blacksmith for smith items)
    • Gets access to "Elder" and "Legendary" titles for that skill.
    • Support (aka Resource gathering) skills get +20% more swings per resource square, or a +20% chance to avoid the square running out (however the checks occur), and/or a +20% chance of getting a bonus extra item (as, and cumulative with, the human bonus, so humans would have 30% chance of an extra ore, or get 13 logs per swing, if a specialist).
    • Crafting skills get a 10% Lower Resource cost (works like LRC for Chivalry tithing, where you have to have the normal amount of ingredients to do the action, for the bonus to have a chance to kick in (unlike mages with regs and LRC))
     
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  26. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Crafting PS should be through crafting only (be they by quest or BOD).

    Thinking they should be Available through fel only is a sign of self-cranial rectoscopy......
     
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  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think all mining really NEEDS is a 100% smelting chance like logs to wood. If you have the skill, you can do it. No chance to ruin the ore.
     
  28. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I dont think there is enough skill cap for 120 mining but I like 120 scribe. Might as well, cap is there.
     
  29. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Camping, Forensic Eval, Item Id, and Tase Id are such worthless skills as they are. Maybe make having 100 more worth it, let alone adding 120 scrolls.

    If they made every skill go up to 120 we'd need a much higher skill cap or crafter skills shouldn't count toward cap. Maybe have a crafter cap and a non-crafter cap.
     
  30. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    No thanks. 100 is plenty.
     
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  31. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Example, Mining in Fel, "you see an old scroll stuck under the ore" and voila, a PS. This could be very rare, say like the LEET shovels etc.

    Just becuase it is Fel, and not a quest doesn't mean champ spawn.
     
  32. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    IF there was ever a collective skill cap or total skill cap for char, it needs to be the 720 real skill cap and say a 800 (or other number) skill cap with real/+skill items combined. Capping it at 720 would ruffle alot of feathers and destroy a lot of 800 skill point templates.
     
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  33. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't think we need an actual cap on skill points. If you have an extra 100 skill points on your suit you are gonna be missing out on a lot of other valuable mods, so the trade off is fair.
     
  34. Marquis de Sade 209

    Marquis de Sade 209 Journeyman
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    I agree to a point but would hate to have to take 20 points from another skill on a crafter template. I for one never thought that powerscrolls should make it so we had to have less than 7 max skills.
     
  35. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I agree. However, caps do exist. I think barding, for example, was recently discussed in one of those Q&As, in which bard masteries operate on real skill rather than modified skill.

    Hm. Origin would sell so many soulstones if they made every skill go to 120. I think if we ever see something like that we know they're starting to lose money/support ;P.
     
    #35 G.v.P, Feb 14, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  36. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    I agree - and if some loss on fail must be, it should not be that ridiculous 50+ percent in one strike!
     
    #36 Olahorand, Feb 14, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
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  37. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    That's why I said the overall cap could be higher than 720 and I would agree to it. As long as it's not insanely high, of course, some players take it to extremes.

    Wenchy
     
  38. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    120 skill is simply 20 extra points to get you the benefit you had at GM - maximum effectiveness in that skill. So I don't see any point in making pretend 120 effectiveness because you're talking about GM skill. 120 is GM stretched over extra skill points. The barding spells were added in after barding PS arrived and now you can swap between them on the fly, because it was obvious that bards often had multiple bard skills and should have access to that full range of capabilities. So that worked out quite badly.

    What I'm saying is add to the skill without adding frustrating requirements. Because it won't work any better on crafters, none of mine are single discipline and I know nobody who has such a char. When I'm running vendors I want to supply every item a player needs, if it's craftable I want to be able to make it. I already skip many items because they're not worth the trouble heh. Making a player complete a quest means a busy shop owner would be running quests multiple times a day. That won't go down very well ;)

    I see nothing in this list that needs a specialization or a PS for any crafting skill. If a skill is getting new perks, GM is more than enough. It always was. I can't understand why anyone would ask for improvements to a skill and offer to jump through unnecessary hoops to get them. It causes players a great deal of time and frustration if we get scrolls and quests clogging up game time.

    Wenchy
     
  39. Chazztizer

    Chazztizer Journeyman
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    Stone makes my brain hurt!!!!!!!!
     
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  40. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Lets talk about the 2 Crafting skills Blacksmith and Tailor. Power Scrolls were given to these 2 skills in July 2002 (Pub 16). It gave Blacksmiths and Tailors a greater success chance to make items that we did not have a %100 chance to make and it increased the chance to make exceptional items that we did not have a %100 chance to make.

    So according to you Pre-Pub 16 Blacksmith/Tailor at a skill of 100 (GM) had the same success chance and exceptional chance rates as a Post-Pub 16 Blacksmith/Tailor at a skill of 120 (Legendary) does now.

    Could you please tell me in what Publish that they nerfed Blacksmith/Tailor skills to make this happen.

    A GM Blacksmith/Tailor rates are the same Pre-Pub 16 as they are Post-Pub 16. At no time did they drop these rates after giving Power Scrolls to Blacksmith/Tailor Skills.

    So all your ranting and raving about how a GM Crafting Skill will be nerfed and a Legendary Crafter is nothing more than what a GM Crafter use to be is just a crock of you know what.
     
  41. Mr. Plod

    Mr. Plod Journeyman

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    Doesn't Vela The Sorceress sell scrolls that give 100% smelt chance? Just costs a little time in covetous lvl 2
     
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  42. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Yes, but it does not cost just a little time to get these and they have a small amount that can be done.
     
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  43. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Heh. Ok, I'll play. UO has skill difficulty for things, and yes if you do the calculations then everything is going to be easier with 120 skill. BUT...It's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If your goal is to make something easier to create, then 120 skill is a very bad solution. Just tweak the item difficulty down and save all the fuss. Then nobody has to inconvenience themselves to have a well trained crafter. Imagine how it would have been if all skills got the new content and improvements they have, but we didn't have to train them all up by 20 points to get it.

    The publish that nerfed tailoring and smithing was 16. As soon as you add 40 skill points to the average multi-crafter, they lost. Especially if all they asked for was improved chances to make stuff and some new content. Add in some items that require more than GM difficulty and you get a second nerf.

    When GM is the skill cap, GM = fully trained and gives the best success rates using that skill. It's the best you can get, whatever that happens to be. If you require a character to add 20 skill points for that maximum effectiveness, rather than just improving it at a GM level, then you certainly nerf that skill.

    Give me one good reason why I would want to train 20 extra skill points, when there is a much simpler option that would instantly be available to any player with GM skill? Nobody in their right mind wants to re-do a template just to get an improvement which could be delivered without that hassle.

    Wenchy
     
  44. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Lets take a look at Magery before you go telling me that adding +20 to a skill is a wonderful Idea.

    Ok used to be at GM magery I could cast a gate with the greatest of ease.... no fizzles at all. Now I'm at GM and I cast a Gate and fizzle 50% of the time. Did I gain any more powerful spells? NO Did I lose anything? YES So going all the way to 120 now I can still fail on occasion at casting a gate... which isn't even an 8th circle spell. Go figure. Didn't gain any new spells all they did is actually take what used to be good for GM and stretch it out to 120. Now you have to have 120 to cast decently. So is THAT the kind of thing you want for Mining or any other crafting skill?
     
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  45. Mr. Plod

    Mr. Plod Journeyman

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    But the option is there if u want 100% smelt success. That seems fair, not all aspects of the game should be easy..
     
    #45 Mr. Plod, Feb 14, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
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  46. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    :facepalm: LOL You still rant and rave that it ruined Blacksmith/Tailor and not one thing you said proves your point.

    Here are some FACTS.
    A GM Blacksmith/Tailor still has the same success/failure rate they had Pre-Pub 16 at GM.
    Nobody is forcing anybody to use Power Scrolls, you can still be a GM Smith/Tailor just like you were Pre-Pub 16 with the same success/failure rate.
    Pub 16 did not nerf Blacksmith/Tailors it just gave those that wanted to have a better success rate the chance.

    Please show us your facts and not a bunch of ranting and raving to prove your point. You cant.:next:
     
    #46 Lord Frodo, Feb 14, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  47. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Nobody said anything about any skill other than the crafting skills. The crafting skills are prob. the only skills that have never changed since Pub 16, IE adjustments.
     
  48. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Nobody said they should be easy. All people want is to have it the same as wood and leather. With mining you are talking about smelting ore. Cut hides or axe logs at %100. You can also craft with hides or logs but you can not craft with ore, it has to be ingots.
     
  49. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm just saying be careful what you wish for...... I guess you want to never ever ever find valorite... or be able to smelt it. It don't improve with the added skil instead they just stretch it out to make it harder and harder.... like magery.... learn to read.
     
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Val, I get more Val ore from my mining carts than I do out mining. I have never found 1 Val spot since they made it all random, same with Frostwood. So we are not losing a thing by asking for these. Blacksmithing/Tailoring success/failure has never changed Pre-Pub 16 or Post-Pub 16. Yes new armor/weapons and other stuff have been added but if you look at what we had Pre AoS you will see that they are the same today as they were Pre-Pub 16. Power Scrolls had nothing to do with making spots random.
     
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