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2/3 times damage against other templates?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by lancelot99, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    Ok, we have the slasher doing extra damage against pets ...i'm not against this and actully think it's a good idea as stops tamers fighting every boss, but like it to extend to other templates...

    Maybe a Necro boss that doex 3x damage against anyone with Chiv in their Template, or a Chiv boss that doe 3 times damage against anyone with Nexro in their template

    Give some variety and stop averyone using the totally crazy gimp Bush/chiv/necro templates that have all the bonuses of each skill but none of the drawbacks...

    as sadly, thats all i ever seem to see and i see it because no other template is viable for such high damage with little or no drawbacks....

    A recent talk with my friend who plays wow, asking him to join the wonderful community of UO

    '" So, can i play a paladin in UO like i can in wow?"

    " Sure you can, but to be effective, you also need to have necromancy"

    " Umm... ok, i can be a Death knight, that sounds good"

    " Ahh, you also need bushido in your template"

    " But i don't want to be a samurai"

    " You don't have to be... no roleplay here, just need it to be effective, as without it you will be weaker"

    " But i want to be a pure Paladin, can i?"

    "Sure, but don't expect to do much in the game"

    "Umm, i think i'll stick with Wow then..."


    After re-reading this, just seems the roleplay aspect of uo has been lost as every melee fighter has to have some variation of the necro/bushido/samurai template ...

    So, specialised bosses may be a way to break up the template, bringing more role play into the game
     
  2. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    I like the idea!

    Another twist could be, that the boss is only damagable by a certain type of damage (magic, melee, ranged) or maybe cycles through his resistances by changing forms. this would required well balanced groups.

    I never liked the sampires either, I still play an oldschool paladin and I have to say, I do not do too bad compared to a sampi. Sure in some situations a sampire works better, but in others my classic template works better.
     
  3. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    3 times the damage to my paladin? Sure. As long as I get the same amount of hit points as a greater dragon gets.
     
  4. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    What you do request is already in game. Corgul, Osiredon, Minions of Scelestus and Void Manifestations already got corrupted life force, you cannot use any form of lifeleech against them. Also seen that at em events.
    Other mobs put you out of form, copy all of your abilities , reduce your swingspeed or do other things that are unpleasant for dexxers.
    More things to come when next publish goes live.
    People run necro/bushido/chiv/dexxer because its easy to play, but you can fight most bosses on a non necro dexxer with healing as well.

    If you look for interesting group pvm, play wow and find a nice guild. Group pvm in uo ususally consists of a ton of gd's and summons running around , maybe a bard and someone shooting arrows. Not very challenging really, because there is not much content for that.

    Where a mystic or tamer can run around with 360 skillpoints, sampires need to spend at least 600 points, most got soulstones to switch skills as needed, because there isnt a single template that works well against absolutly everything as you may think. Also does reqiure a lot more crafting then your tamer or mystic/mage .
     
  5. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    "3 times the damage to my paladin? Sure. As long as I get the same amount of hit points as a greater dragon gets."

    I'm happy with that, as long as the Greater Drag has the mana regen, Damage output and casting/healing ability of a sampire :)
     
  6. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    What sort of casting abilities sampires have? The mana regen comes from weapon leech, mages have med,focus and wraith form for that purpose.

    Damage output is something that is broken, you are right here. Still a pet that has 900-1k hp ,better resists than any player and needs 240 skillpoints to control should not have the same damage output as a human player.

    Otherwise people would complain that the only thing they see is tamers.
    Different classes have different advantages and uses. If you are going to reduce everything down to damage output in pvm, you are not getting what uo is about. Sampires for example are not really useful in group play or for pvp.
    Also there must be a reason that everyone brings his mage mystic or tamer to an em event and you see next to no dexxers there?
     
  7. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    "Different classes have different advantages and uses. If you are going to reduce everything down to damage output in pvm, you are not getting what uo is about. Sampires for example are not really useful in group play or for pvp"


    And thats part of the problem (imho), Everyone soloing on a Sampire is not what UO is about... sadly with PVM (pvm is over 90-95% of playbase) it seems now it's all about the damage you can do alone and a sammy/necro.pally gives the most damage so obviously, people will hunt with one... and soloing on a Tamer with a GD is not right either (hate lumping my gd around)..

    Just read the Warrior forum posts..

    (Whats the Best temp so SOLO peerlesses/champs), not ( Best template for group dynamic for peerless) etc ...

    Maybe the devs should think more about making some bosses which DO require a group effort...
    or bosses where you need 120 chiv to gain access, or 120 nec to enter.. (something to encourage specialisation

    not sure what the solition is... or if there is one..
     
  8. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    There is no good solution to this problem, not with the budget that is availabe.
    There are to many flaws with game and boss mechanics involved, it would need a complete rebalancing of everything. UO developers of the past where pretty bad at designing pvm.

    Swinging the big nerf hammer would cost subscriptions. Only thing the devs can do is doing better with future bosses and by adding some nice stuff to other skills like they did with bards , chiv or healing lately.
    A cheap solution would be to add enrage timers like in wow forcing people to group. Would be bad on dead shards.

    Or just play what you have fun with , you have 7 char slots as well. Make a samurai yourself and see how easy or hard it is in reality.
     
  9. pgib

    pgib Guest

    What you request is basically a nerf (a subtle one but still a nerf). That's not the way to go because maybe someone actually enjoys playing its paladin or sampire or whatever against the mobs that suddenly will become unkillable.

    In the end we will have those players very unhappy because they have been nerfed and others still unhappy because nothing has changed for them.

    But what if the now totally useless vial of armor essence granted a pet resistance against that silly anti-tamer thing? (and a similar effect could be granted by some other craftable or quest item to mages against ore elementals and sampires against anti-sampire stuff).

    For the "make the template that can kill them all" that's a miserable way to play this game - that has been enforced by very bad design decisions.
     
  10. jradar71

    jradar71 Journeyman
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    Just a quick thought that maybe you could express to your friend.

    "We are NOT WoW!!!"

    Other games have different mechanics, characters, templates, abilities, perks, and downfalls. If he wants to play a "paladin" then he should stay where he is... period.

    It is because this game is different than WoW that I play it.
     
  11. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    Here is the truth. Some one will always find a way to tweek their skills to be able to do multiple things. If we are talking about removing content based on temp we are running down a very dangerous path. What if they decided to make a monster that made pets go wild and untamable? The truth is if he was so opposed to putting bushido on his temp then maybe an open skill set game isn't for him. I remember once back in the day someone said they wanted to be a healer. We came up with all sorts of viable temps but they made it clear that any offensive skills were not acceptable. We had to tell them that they would be very limited in UO and they ended up not playing. That is not the games fault, that is a players fault. Saying that I don't want to have to use this skill for this is just as crazy as railing against gravity because you can't flap your arms and fly. It is the boundaries of the game. They have address sampries with multiple nerfs. They stay and the reason is that they work well. Are they the best temp? Probably not as if your in any kind of pvp situation your dead meat. Are they very functional yes. There is nothing wrong with that. If we get rid of that it will be back to tamers being the most versatile, which hardly solves the problem.
     
  12. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I do not agree here. This is a game's fault because the game is open, there are no predefined classes, the game should aim to maximize the amount of skills' combinations that can be effectively played and this is a thing totally overlooked now.

    It is not that hard to imagine that a player when in party healing pets or players receives some amount of the hitting points delivered by the healed players so that he can enter the loot (and hope for a drop).

    I can't simply find one single drawback in having more playable combinations of skills.
     
  13. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    I like it
    Maybe it could work like anti slayer

    Repond do more dmg against undead (wrath form lich form)
    Undead do more dmg against repond (humans)
    Fey do more dmg against demon (gargoyl)
    demon do more dmg against fey ( elves and all fey pets)
    .
    .
    .
    and so on
    the increase in dmg the monsters deal out cant be so high it makes it impossible to fight vs your anti
     
  14. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    I am not sure you got the thrust of my point. Therefore I will try again. If I said I wanted to be a warrior and I took healing, parrying, magery, resist spells, mining and blacksmithing I would not be all the effective would I? If you want to play a healer, well that’s great. UO needs more healers, but there are areas where your going to be a liability and people will not want to take you. If you want to get loot from it work it out with the group ahead of time. That is what the multiplayer option is. That is in fact the exact reason that they created parties as everyone shares the loot. If others are not inclined to do that, well... best bet is find folks that are. That being said one of the most popular play styles is hunting monsters. If you want to do this you have to realize that there is always going to be some things that work and some things that don't. Just like you have to acknowledge that if you want to hunt deer bringing a fishing pole may not be the way to go.
     
  15. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    thought they were already adding in anti-sammy mobs? I like to think of it as 'Cal's revenge'
     
  16. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    **Just a quick thought that maybe you could express to your friend.

    "We are NOT WoW!!!"

    Other games have different mechanics, characters, templates, abilities, perks, and downfalls. If he wants to play a "paladin" then he should stay where he is... period.

    It is because this game is different than WoW that I play it**


    This basically explains what i was getting at with my opening post...

    There is no variety in templates because playing anything other than a pally/necro/sammy (incert slight tweak) becomes non-viable for pvm..

    And, as the above poster states "If he wants to play a paladin, he should not play UO" and then people wonder why the game is losing players...
     
  17. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    It's a deal as long as I get to triple cast spells,and have the same huge mana pool as a rune beetle and greater dragon.
     
  18. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Yup, i've got it and you're wrong but there's no point in starting a faith vs logic battle here.
     
  19. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Wammie with healing & resist, instead of bushido & parry works well against Everything, the only thing that could possibly kill you, is Slasher's Stun-till-your-dead ability. which kills basicly everything. if your close enough to be hit by the rocks as it starts.
     
  20. Mirt

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    Again I am not sure what you mean. I am saying that some skills will always end up working well because someone deliberately looked for a way to make the most effective temp. It involves math and testing. There is no real way to avoid this. I am wondering why you are so angry. Its not like a sampire stops you from using another temp it is simply better at it. That being said the constant demand to nerf this or that tends to not really be all that helpful in the long run as nerfs tend to drive people away. Maybe asking to have some boost to another skill combination would be a better point.
     
  21. Tor the Invincible

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    "Dear devs, something besides us is killing things. Nerf plz." - Signed, Tamers

    That being said, yeah the hell with glorious lord vampires already. Make chiv not work if you have necro, or the other way around.
     
  22. Mirt

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    Why should Chiv not work with necro? I am not judging just curious.
     
  23. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Lol, good use of a red herring. Your friend can go play WoW all he wants. UO will kick it's ass any day. That's the whole point of UO is that there aren't any "classes" or crap like that. He can play a pure paladin and still do lots of damage to creatures. Just because people prefer sampires doesn't mean it's the only template that can deal lots of damage. It's purely a power gamer template. So go role play all you want.