1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

2d vs. whatever.....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ZippyTwitch, Dec 8, 2009.

?

2d or EC or another client

  1. 2d

    116 vote(s)
    67.1%
  2. EC

    50 vote(s)
    28.9%
  3. Another Client

    7 vote(s)
    4.0%
  1. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    19
  2. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Barter Town

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    58
  3. Otis Firefly

    Otis Firefly Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,461
    Likes Received:
    0
    i love 2D because ive become accustomed to it..its easy, no complications! and thats pretty much it! lmao..
    i dont mind the Enhanced client either!, its something new to mess with and try to become accustomed too aswell!, i just find some of it gets blurry and thats when i shut it off, its still in beta!, hopefully they can figure out how to get the look and feel where we want it, i liked KR's look aswell xept for our chars and backpacks...i cant quite say what it was but something just didnt feel right!, if that makes any sense....a lot of hack/cheat programs can only exist through the 2D client, so without 1, you kill the other...but until they get the client to the point where most of us will take the time to learn how to use it and try to forget about 2D....were stuck with those programs ticking us off. i dont know much about them so im sure there might be some going on with the enhanced client aswell! i dunno...but i do know the majority of them exist because the 2D client is easy to manipulate! at least thats what i get from various posts ive read and been told...
     
  4. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    6
    First.... the EC client is also 2d.. so I think the post should have been called: Classic vs. Enhanced

    Iam only using EC.
    Yes there are minor bugs and glitches... but I would never go back to the old client and miss out on the great features of the EC client like:

    - Rescaleable play area... I have 24" monitor running at 1920*1200 and when using the 2d client I have a HUGE black area for gumps.... but a very tiny playarea.

    - Zoomable playarea.... I think this is what makes some people think EC is "ugly" they forget to zoom out so they hit the "sweet spot". If you do this you wont get any pixilations. Also when placing larger homes like keeps and castles its a big plus that you can see the entire area.

    - The new Gridview bags... I know some older players have a hard time with this, but I really think its so much more easy to organice your stuff... also when doing idocs or looting monsters/chests you dont have to move stuff arround to see whats below it... you have everything there to quickly look thru.

    - Hotbars.... damn I love hotbars and the new targeting system... wonna make a heal self with bandie or spell key?? takes 2 secs and you dont need UOA to make it work either. We could use an option to lock the hotbars thou.

    - Build in map... another 3rd part app I can avoid installing... the build in map is very usefull... of course it could use some of the functions from the old UOAM, but its very good compared to what you get in the classic client.

    - Macro building..... easy and no use for UOA

    - Holding on to new players.... In my oppinion they should put the EC as the default client to download on the download site... I believe that if a truly new player comes to UO he will have it alot easier learning the game using the new client where he dosnt need 3rd part apps to make it work.
    I hope they put much more work into the EC client as I truly believe it can carry UO for many years to come.

    :thumbup1:
     
  5. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    42
    2D for UO life...or until something better comes along. So far...2D for life.
     
  6. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Decide what?

    If the choice is which client do uhallers users prefer, I think classic will win the preference vote.

    But what does this decide?
     
  7. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    9
    What she said! Pretty useless to have a poll like that on a board infested with 2d whiners that are afraid of change.
     
  8. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    6
    Actually a few of us are not afraid of change :) EC FTW :)
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,882
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    The only thing I'm trying to decide is whether to lock this thread before it becomes too much of a troll fest.
     
  10. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    194
    If we are voting ....Lock it
     
  11. Pazuzu

    Pazuzu Guest

    Well, my 2x GTX295's and I say "EC", since the EC uses said hardware, while the 2D client is still using GDI graphics and thus runs the same on my modern gaming machine as it did on my piece of garbage machine back in 1997. Problem is... some people are still using the machine they had back in '97. ;)

    Gaming = upgrade or die. Just a fact of the hobby!
     
  12. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Barter Town

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    58
    I enjoy the game for what it is. If I wanted to play a new game, I would.

    Sounds like you're trying to have it both ways with one foot in and one foot out. Seems to me, you're the one who's afraid of change.

    :grouphug:
     
  13. Pazuzu

    Pazuzu Guest

    Same game, different client. The game plays the same from a content and mechanics standpoint on either client. Difference is, for people with a machine constructed in this decade, the performance on the EC is approximately a billion times better. Plus no "need" for UOAsssist and such with the EC - it has most of that functionality built in and then some. Plus other modern features such as, you know... hotbars... arbitrary keybinding... etc.
     
  14. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
    Governor Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    76
    Don't troll and let us vote! :p
     
  15. falseprophet

    falseprophet Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,142
    Likes Received:
    12
    well if it's gonna get locked I better get my +1 in. I use both, some characters I find easier to use in 2d. but I am trying my best to get used to the EC, I think my biggest issue is the sharpness of it all. and 10+ years using the same client I find I can do most things without thinking about where it is. In the EC I am always saying "now where is this option", but that will fade as time goes and i get used to it.
     
  16. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    ROFL.... yea change.... thats it. rolleyes:
     
  17. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    19
    Why would you lock this thread? This gives stratics users a chance to show which client they prefer. There are other worse troll threads right now that aren't locked.
     
  18. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    1
    Not another one of these again. *sigh*
     
  19. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    45
    Here's the deal neil............take a look at the thread........"how old are you"....count, all of the players pushing 40 or older.

    What you have are players not wanting to change, they are accustomed to their ways and change won't happen. I'm over 40, but an optimist, I will try different things. I see the user interface as one of the biggest hang-ups for this older generation.

    Yes, there will be some younger, that won't care for it.....bottom line, what's a poll like this going to prove? That the original poster just wants to see players bicker and argue?:stir: Probably.

    There are things in life where older is better, car quality. todays cars are tin coffins, more plastic than tin.

    you get my drift.....routine will always rule.

    later
     
  20. Decide what? 2D is a long completed and stable client while EC is a client that's still in beta and has graphical bugs & glitches, not to mention a lack of stability. That's like asking if you'd prefer the fully built and pristine '67 Corvette or this half built '09 Vette.
     
  21. Llwyd

    Llwyd Guest

    I love 2d. :cheerleader:
     
  22. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    7
    I'm about to tell you the truth. Try not to get angry. It's not a personal attack. Every 5 years you will be a completely different person. You will look back and think "How could I ever have acted that way? Why did I think like that?" It's just how things are in life. You grow and mature.

    Now back to uo. Every single time there's a new client. I rush over download and think this is going to be it. We're finally going to move into the real world. 2009-2010 graphics, incredible special effects, more features. None of the clients ever deliver. We have a bunch of computers here. Remember we're old. Old people have more stuff. lol
    The new clients ALWAYS look terrible compared to the classic client. We're not blind or stupid. Then, we go out and play them. They have problems we don't have when we're not playing them.

    So, people come here talk a bunch of crap about them and move back to using the old client. I've done a whole lot of programming, but I can't really conceive what it would be like to program something like uo. Most people can't.
     
  23. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    7
    That's an easy one. Have them send a poll to everyone on the mailing list and keep it a secret. I don't need to know the answer. THEY need to know the answer.
     
  24. kittykat

    kittykat Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    THEY = the devs? You do realize that they already have a much more foolproof way of seeing who uses which client and how much, right? They don't need a poll from one site to tell them that (which by no means represents the entirety or even likely the majority of uo players).
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,376
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    *chuckles* Ya think?
     
  26. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    9
    Have you even tried the EC in recent time? stability has greatly improved and most of the glitches are gone now. there are still bugs of course, that's why it is a BETA, not a finished product. But it's getting better with each patch.
    Also if you apply some of the fabulous (and legal!) mods that some great people have done, it get's even better and the usability of it flies!

    I get the feeling that most people that are flaming the EC never gave it the week or two you need to adapt to a different client surface.
     
  27. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I get the opportunities, i like playing in EC. I would make some changes to it, but over all I really like it. My computer can't support it, however.
     
  28. Reximus

    Reximus Guest

    The graphics in the EC are incredibly ugly, it's not about refusing to change, Guildwars was released in like 2005 and has way better graphics than the EC, if EC looked like Guildwars, I'd switch in a millisecond.
     
  29. Pazuzu

    Pazuzu Guest

    Let's face it: if graphics are the primary reason you game, UO is simply not your game in the first place. :D
     
  30. Like I've said in the other thread... IF I could play the EC without getting a headache IRL, I would. Would I adjust to the graphics being different? Probably over time.. but the choppyness of the client and the blurred lines, give me migraines, literally.
    Sorry, I cant play it and be happy with it like everyone else. As long as the art in EC stays what it is and my screen waves while I'm moving, I wont play. =/
     
  31. Reximus

    Reximus Guest

    Funny that I've been playing 2D for 10years without a problem?

    But why would I play a client where the graphics are worse than 10 year old ones?
     
  32. Why yes, yes I have.


    Which pretty much proves my point. I'll take the '67 Vette that I can just hop in and drive away with than the half built '09 that still needs a ton of work just to get it on par with the other.


    And why are these not part of the actual product instead of having to be programmed outside of the game programming? Seems to me that if they are so wonderful, they should already be part of the game with no additional installing needed.


    I was in the 1st stage of the original beta and tested all the way up through the first week after open beta was released. I'd say that's a good sight more than a week or 2. Bugs and glitches that I reported in closed beta are still present in the game today. 'Splain that Lucy. :popcorn:
     
  33. Fink

    Fink Guest

    10 years is being generous, I would place them more around 20 years old.. at least 15 since it had been in development that much longer than it was released, and they certainly weren't state of the art (or art of the state) back then. They were actually a step backwards from some of the older Ultima games.

    *edit* Wow, EC preference numbers more than a third of the polled users as of this writing. I wouldn't have thought that many based on the amount of anti-EC posts that fly around here. That's a fairly decent share.
     
  34. deadite

    deadite Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend It's My Birthday

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    20
    Bah, who cares what your neighbor uses? Mythic said they will support both clients, so what's the problem? Why is it a competition? I don't care if more UHallers prefer Classic to Enhanced. It's not gonna influence my decision at all.
     
  35. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    For now, I am a classic client(CC) kind of a guy. I give the enhanced client(EC) a try about once a week and still do not like it.

    My reasons are as follows:
    1) I like the graphics in classic. Both in terms of actual art and just general feel. My GF who plays UO on and off looked at EC and asked WTF happened to UO:lol:
    2) To me, all the fancy extra animations(running waterfalls, spell effects, etc) do nothing to enhance my gameplay. Sure they are stunning and eye candy but I'd continue to play UO in 1990s tile graphics if the content was there:stir:
    3) I like the old backpack style. To me, going to a grid or list form makes this into a Diablo type game and doesn't enhance the "feel" of the game. While at times, the old backpack style is a pain in the butt, I put up with it for "THAT feel":thumbup1:
    4) Hot bar. Interesting concept... but again, here we have Diablo UI. While not bad, if I had wanted to play Diablo, I'd play Diablo. The functionality of the hot bar is similar to UOAssist's(UOA) macros and key assignment(ie potions, mounts, etc)

    To me, CC is like a Victorian house that needs to have the plumbing fixed and a fresh coat of paint. While the EC is a Victorian that got the plumbing fixed but someone decided it would look much better in neon pink paint.:mf_prop::stir:

    I do understand the CC graphics will not attract new players. Definitely not with ADD "good" graphics like Wow or dedicated console games(PS3, etc) out there. However, EC still can not compete with those graphics. A good analogy here would be CC = 68 Camaro, EC = 88 Camaro, PS3 games = 2010 Camaro.
     
  36. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    7
    o i hear that

    All this is because the guy from ea posted about how they weren't really worried about giving features to the classic client. That, you know its old and they are going to put their resources in the new one. That we can ask nicely for some of the stuff to be added to the classic client and maybe they'll do it. I read it and thought, these people have no idea in this world what's happening. Most of them are fairly new and don't remember ALL the other clients they were going to spend their resources on that were discarded. I remember them. I just want them to understand that they can basically WASTE time and resources we need other places if they like. Nothing I can do about that, but at least I thought I'd mention it to them in case they are listening.

    I don't want to stop you or anyone else from using any client you like. I LOVE diversity.

    Have a Blessed Day!
     
  37. deadite

    deadite Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend It's My Birthday

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    20
    He didn't say they "weren't really worried about giving features to the classic client." He said it was a lot easier to put new features into the enhanced client, but that they do their best to add them into the classic client as well despite its limitations. Big difference. Why are you trying to mislead or blow it out of proportion?

    Honestly, what more do you want? I get the impression that they are doing their best to keep both camps happy.
     
  38. Ivorythorn

    Ivorythorn Guest

    Same here. I love the EC.

    Ivorythorn "Royal Guardian of the Enhanced Client"
     
  39. Ivorythorn

    Ivorythorn Guest

    It would probably be the same or more. Not everyone reads the Stratics UO boards, or even if they do they don't post. I've talked to many players in game who use the EC. Most don't even know about Stratics.

    Ivorythorn "Royal Guardian of the Enhanced Client" :thumbup1:
     
  40. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    7
    Normally I overlook you entirely, but you want to fight so WOOHOOO!!!

    Here's what he actually said "The Classic Client is... well its old. And very difficult to add new features to. The Enhanced Client is designed in such a way that it is very simple for us to make minor modifications and improvements.

    We definitely haven't abandoned the Classic Client. We will still put every effort in to add these new features to both clients, but sometimes the amount of time it would take to implement them in the Classic Client just isn't worth it."

    My point is its worth it if they abandon EC like they abandoned KR and the other clients. IF they abandon EC then every resource they put into is wasted, while the Classic Client is still here.

    Now argue your way out of that one. While you're at it go log on KR and see how far that enhanced client got.
     
  41. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,809
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    I log into the EC and play it about once a week now.
    Sometimes for hours, sometimes for 10 minutes. My problems, which I am sure I will eventually have to overcome:

    The grid backpack...sux for scribing and filling spellbooks on the fly, as well as a few other things.
    Walking or riding, that floating motion, whereas with CC each step I take looks solid.
    I still don't sit my mounts properly.
    Cursor doesnt align properly, Im not really pointing at what Im touching.

    I understand we lost a lot of our manpower. And I am sure that is gonna cut deep into the time required to improve/enhance the EC. As far as the art goes, if the EC is so easy to manipulate, the art files should be able to be changed/swapped almost anytime they want to do it.

    But, and I have to say it bluntly, after so much time passes, EA/Mythic/Bioware, or whatever the name du'Jour is, is gonna look absolutely silly running around going "we gonna fix that, its on the radar, I mean, after all, it's still in BETA!"
     
  42. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    And why are these not part of the actual product instead of having to be programmed outside of the game programming? Seems to me that if they are so wonderful, they should already be part of the game with no additional installing needed.

    UOA? UOAM? UOCartographer? Any of the other myriad of mini programs used for 2d?

    Guess what... the mods are legal and ARE internal to the client once they are added in.

    Mods = internal modification of the client
    UOA = external hack of the datastream

    Both are legal, but if you're going to deduct points from the EC for the use of UI Mods, then you have to do the same for UOA being around for 10+ years with many features never added to the 2d client.
     
  43. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    As for my vote, I use the EC 100% of the time, but voted Other because I feel that they screwed up by downgrading the graphical quality of the EC while the 2d client remains in existence. If it were a compromise to close the 2d client it wouldn't be a problem IMO. Without closing the 2d client, it's a useless downgrade of graphical quality for no benefit.

    And yes, the "other" client I would prefer would be a completed KR client.
     
  44. OxAO

    OxAO Guest

    I want to make sure it is understood.

    If/When the 2D client is 'done' so am I.
    I been playing since day one.
     
  45. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    um... ok.

    All I was saying was that I thought the graphical downgrades made to the EC were a mistake.

    My posts in other threads on this topic show that I have no problem with retaining the 2d client due to the advent of systems like netbooks, I would prefer to see a client that instead of being a compromise between KR and 2d to be one that either matched or exceeded KR for graphic and UI quality. Basically a TRUELY enhanced client for those who can and want to run it.
     
  46. Lexfixr

    Lexfixr Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    183
    How many of these stupid polls do we have to have 2d 3d 4d 5d who gives a crap and its not going to change anyones opinion for the 57th time enough already....
     
  47. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Benefactor Evergreen

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,267
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    I've used the EC... dedicated myself to it for about... erm... 3 weeks and that included time during my vacation where I had to log in with a laptop. When I returned home, I happily uninstalled it and returned to my favored combination of UOAssist and UO Classic.


    Some notes:

    [+] If you explore your settings gump, you can get the old-style containers back (backpak/chest/bag instead of grid) - although is not intuitive - you WILL eventually find it.

    [-] The Graphics are remiss of the KR version... and I didn't like them then.

    [-/+] Playability is alright - but if I wanted hot-bars I'd have stuck with that other game by Blizzard. I kinda enjoy having the tiles where I want them, all over the place. It is easier to click on them for certain functions (ie: recall tile to pak for insta-get-a-way from charging pkers)

    [-/+] Anyone who attempted to play KR will remember how to do their macros, is exactly the same in this EC - and if you don't remember is still confusing.

    [+] In this version the Paperdoll doesn't dance around or spin so you can see what you look like. I consider that good as the paperdoll served as a HUGE distraction in KR - drawing my attention from the battle as well as drawing resources from my machine to power said animations. I like it that the paperdoll is static (not moving)!

    [-] The zoom messes with my trackball functionality. Sometimes I would wind up zooming when I really wanna move in a certain direction. Ayuh, I use a trackball, not a standard mouse.

    [-] Sux on a laptop. Even my hi-end quad with uber graphics card I use for programming and gaming in that other game by Blizzard. It just doesn't look right on the laptop and the screen config is warped... which STAYS that way when I go back to my desktop. The scenery graphics are nice and smooth and pretty, but the creature movement seriously drops in quality the faster I try to do something.
    ----horse movement chops and appears to skip frames when running
    ----Monsters walk funny...
    ----moving objects (rotating hour glass) skipping frames when zoomed in
    I utterly lose that immersion factor when playing on the laptop. :(



    Basically, I see this EC as a KR-part deux or KR-Revisited. I didn't like KR the first time around - mostly for the following reasons:
    A - yes, I have an older computer I use to game on... my money is spent in servers not gaming machines. :p
    B - The graphics are (imho) crappy. Sorry, would rather have little toon with non-descript features than the plain-jane ickiness given in the KR/EC version that looks just about identical to other plain-jane avatars. Even in the Classic we can do things to make our avatars utterly unique from each other.
    C - Immersion is poor as the graphics are not the best in the offered isometric view and causes eye-strain and fatigue, forcing me to put on my glasses which I despise :p



    Yes, I am over 40.
    Yes, I am what would be considered a "hardcore" gamer and computer geek.
    No, I do not have unlimited funds for snappy and snazzy graphics cards.


    I'm a programmer and always looking for the "next best thing" - is part of my job.

    The Enhanced Client is NOT the next best thing....
     
  48. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    The paperdoll in EC is the exact same paperdoll as in KR. You are thinking of the old 3d client paperdoll that could be rotated and moved as your character moved.
     
  49. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    26
    I hope there are more people playing than the 125 that have voted sofar. Oh wait, all the other people are actually playing the game and not trolling the stratics forums.

    I just hope the other 50.000 are playing the game with the EC. Unless they make a windows mobile 6.1 compatible client, which is what I would have needed to play at the moment, I would say that the future lies with progress. My vote clearly goes to the EC!
     
  50. Aroma

    Aroma Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    12
    2D or nothing Just aint no way there new client will be the same.
    Not looks, performance, and still extreamly hard to use.