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4000 BODs and still going....*updated 3/17/08*

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Gheed, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Well I'm back with another 1000 BOD results to add to the list. Couple of things before you read. The category "shield" refers to all colorable BOD smalls that can not be combined into a large. That includes all helms except plate helms, all shields and all female plate. In the chart below the first 5 columns from the "norm" column are combined results. I have added columns to the left to give you the abridged versions of each batch of 1000 BODs The last column is the breakdown of each ore type's chance to hit if there were no weapon small or large BODs in the sample:


    [​IMG]


    *3/17/08*
    Another 1k BODs on the pile. 30 Valorite BODs and still not one 20x plate since I started keeping track. Well I did get a 20x female plate this time. The numbers are about the same. Poledancer is still there. I didnt have the heart to page again on her. I offered her 1 mil to go somewhere else... I think she is too far gone to be saved. Maybe fate will bring her sweet relief this week. I feel bad for part of me hopes so....

    *3/01/08*

    Looks like some things are still the same. About a 50/50 exceptional vs non exceptional split. Same for weapons vs. armor (50/50). Got a lot less Dull Copper on the second batch...not that I am too upset about that. A few more Gold and Verite than before.


    *3/06/08*

    Not the greatest batch I've done yet. Too many non-combinables. I don't keep very many returns from handing in BODs at all. Only 10 count exceptional weapons, all normal weapons, and of course any reward that I can sell to pay for NPC stock and what ingots I need to fill the rest.

    I tell you this because I hate to just cancel those rejected BODs when there are others that could use them. So I typically take them then drop them on the ground. Since Luna is the hot spot these days I go there. The BODs I drop on the ground there never stay there long. Folks always come by and pick them up. Occasionally this sparks a conversation about this or that and I enjoy the break so it's overall a very good experience.

    The first day I am at the Luna smithy I notice I have a noisy friend off to the corner. This poor young lady is a neglected swamp dragon named PoleDancer. Here she is dancing at what appears to be her pole:

    [​IMG]

    She is bonded and clad in Exceptional shadow stripper gear but no one seems to pay any attention to her at all. For three weeks now I sweat at the forge and this poor thing hasn't earned one dime! She is getting ill too because she constanly makes this horrible noise as if she is coughing up flem. And I mean constantly...like every 4 seconds. So much so that I have paged GMs a couple times now to come help her out.

    First week I listen to it. Second week I page a GM I asked them to take her back to her master who must miss her dearly. My response was that she was under investigation and I would not ever know the outcome.

    Third week She is still there so I page again and ask them to stable her so she may get much needed care from the stablemaster. This time the response was that they (GMs) were not allowed to stable pets and I should try to find the owner myself.

    Week 4 and she's still there dancing away. Poor thing. The paladins are giggling at her when she isn't looking. Chivalry indeed! I'm going to try to get the GMs to help her out again tommorow.

    Now I spend a lot of time at the smith. Imagine if you had to listen to someone hawk up a loogie every 4 seconds for 3 to 4 hours almost every day. And just how on earth is this pet here every day? It is bonded. If server went down for maint wouldn't she get auto stabled or at least returned to her master? I would hate to move to another smith ar turn the volume completely down.


    *Thoughts*
    The non combineable armor drops are too high. 40% of the colorable armor drops were in this category. On the journey to the high end reward we loose 50% of our attempts at the iron (weapons and non colored armor) to colored ore test. Then we loose 40% of those at the shield (helms, female plate, shield) to non-shield test. Finally loosing 50% of that again at the exceptional to non-exeptional test.

    I have confirmed that female plate is not allowed to be combined with large plate BODs. I would love to see that changed. Considering colorable BODs only:

    1. There are 11 colorable smalls (4 helms, 6 shields and female plate) that can not be combined into larges.
    2. There are 4 ring, 3 chain, and 6 plate for a total of 13 desirable smalls.
    3. 3 desireable LBOD (plate, chain, and ring).

    So out of 27 colorable BODs, 11 are non combineable. About 40% so the results match the facts. But who would like to see that change? Is it really that unreasonable to ask that female plate be combineable to plate larges. It could be argued that it isnt right to have two BODs that can fill one slot on a plate large but plate larges are 6 part vs 4 and 3 part respectively. And there are so many ore types that the differences are only slight.

    Also, I can remeber a comment a long time ago that tailoring rewards were changed based on the number of BOD's it took to complete a large. 6 part leather were considered of higher value than 5 part leather because they required more pieces regardless of the fact that they were easier to make. That kind of makes sense. Based on that is it time to reconsider ring(4 part) vs chain(3 part) large BODs? Currently 3 part chain yields higher rewards.

    I am currently siiting on about 150 POFs as a result of this experiment. At the risk of being run out of this forum on a rail.....Maybe they are a little too easy to come by? Maybe if smithy rewards were reworked these become rewards for low end chain larges and high end singles?

    Still I am thrilled with the "Valorite" drops. Not too many 20x plates from these but exciting to see anyway.
     
  2. Very cool!!! Thanks for the effort to post your results here.
     
  3. Lilac Crypt

    Lilac Crypt Guest

    In my usual non-powergamer fashion I have gotten all of 142 Bods since the change came about.

    *dimpled grin* Guess I gotta compile a few more numbers before I come up with some sort of matching statistics.

    What I DO have so far, I like. No valorite bods as yet, but a whole lot more colored ones. Even the non-combinable ones make me happy, cause I work with gargoyle picks, so bopping a copper ele or two as I mine and filling a sheerly fame-giving shield bod pleases me. (For no reason other than that I'm odd that way.)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi there,

    Im not a power bod filler either but I have turned in 2 batches of 100 bods each.

    And I received 1 valorite bod in each batch.
    [​IMG]

    20e shield and a 10n noncombinable bod of some sort.
    I did receive alot more PoF giving bods that before.


    Regards
    The Scandiavian
     
  5. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Gheed,
    Thanks for sharing the data and your good analysis. Although the sample size is limited for the high end bods, it may be enough to give us an rough estimate on the chance to pull a verite or valorite hammer bod.

    For Verite Hammer small BODs (20x verite plates, 10x and 15x Val plates) :
    Let's assume the verite BOD spawn rate is 1% -1.5%. Small verite BOD spawn at about 0.6%-0.9%. Exceptional small verite BOD spawn at 0.3%-0.45%. Among them, only 6 (20x plates) out of 39 (chain, ring, plate, 10x, 15x, 20x) bods will be 20x verite plate, so that leave us with 0.05% to 0.07%.
    Let's assume the valorite BODs spawn at 0.5% - 1%. Small Val BODs spawn at 0.3%-0.5%. Exceptional small val bods spawn at 0.15-0.25%. Among them, 12 (10x and 15x plates) out of 39 BODs will give verite hammer. That leave us with 0.05% to 0.08%.
    Add them up, the chance to pull a verite hammer level small BOD is about 0.1% to 0.15%, or one in 700-1000. It is roughly equvilant to pulling a barbed kit LBOD. It could a 120 smith 1 years to pull one and 7 years to complete the set (3 bods a day).


    For Valorite Hammer small BODs (20x val plates):
    By the same token, the chance to pull a valorite hammer level small BOD is about 0.025% - 0.04%, or 1 in 2500-4000 . It could a 120 smith 3 years to pull one and 20 years to complete the set.

    For LBODs, their chance is about 1/3-1/4 of smalls. But thanks to the abundance of them over the last several years, getting them is not as nearly difficult as the smalls.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think your math has proved out that Origin wants people to have more than 1 account. 7 accounts pulling 3 times a day would take roughly 47 days to get 1000 bods and a verite hammer, and roughly 6months to get a valorite one.

    I'm better off selling my BODs to the 'factories' that need them and just buy the end kit.
     
  7. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    On days that I play I can comfortably do about 250 BODs in 5 hours. Yes I am a powergamer. I am that way with everything in my life. Once I commit to something I don't half ass it. I do what I can to get the best out of anything I attempt. But even a casual gamer can hit high turn in rates for BODs.

    I thought I would take a moment post a few tips I have learned about this system. It could really speed things up for anyone.

    First. ANY char can get a BOD with at least .01 skill. I have 14 runners with the purchased minimum(around 25 skill). I could have more but 14 is about my threshold for thumping account names and passwords. There are two advantages to using these characters:

    1. At such low skill they get a new BOD every hour as opposed to every 6 hours at legendary. So they can produce 6 times the quantity of BODs as a legendary. In 5 hours that's 70 BODs.

    2. These BODs are gaurunteed iron non-exceptional (yes thats a good thing). Now I do not include these in my chart above. Only BODs from my legendary. Most of these BODs are one of three items: 1. Bascinet 2. Dagger 3. Metal Kite Shield. This seems like a waste of ingots but alot of folks miss out on something very important here. You can fill iron non-exceptional BODs from NPC stock.

    A bascinet costs 18gps at the smithy...20 costs 360gps. And when you hand it in, you get roughly half your gps back. So your net loss is less than 200gps. That isnt too bad. Now metal kites are around 120gps so you could loose around 1k per on that 20 piece small. But the other gps rewards from non iron or exceptional BODs will cover the loss. In the end you actually make a little. Point is don't burn your ingots on non-ex iron smalls. Use the NPC's.

    Even most casual gamers with one account can fit .01 smithy skill on their chars. For $20 you can upgrade that accout to 7 chars and have 1 legendary + 6 (.01 skill) runners.


    Next involves UO Assist. I mentioned above there are three kinds of BODs my runners get (mostly). I have a UO Assist Macro "target Item Type" set up for each of those. So filling purchased stock from NPCs is extremely easy. As easy a clicking the appropriate macro and thumping my play current macro hot key.


    Now that all of these are filled, log your legendary to hand them in. You are allowed ANOTHER BOD instantly after you turn one in. So if you turn in 70 bods, you get 70 back. From this point keep whatever you are comfortable with. In the chart above roughly 25% of the returns will be non-ex weapon smalls....perfect! NPC them! While you are doing this don't forget to log in your runners every hour and claim their BODs.

    Wel I could go on an on but I'm loosing out on BODs! Hope this helps some of you folks out there. Good Luck!

    *edited in some clarifications*
     
  8. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    *bump* next 1000 bods added.
     
  9. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    I think your math has proved out that Origin wants people to have more than 1 account. 7 accounts pulling 3 times a day would take roughly 47 days to get 1000 bods and a verite hammer, and roughly 6months to get a valorite one.

    I'm better off selling my BODs to the 'factories' that need them and just buy the end kit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think your math is off a bit. Seven accounts pulling three times per day would net 1000 BODs in 10 days. That's with no fill and turn-in done.

    (7) accounts x (5) characters = (35) BODs x (3) runs per day = (105) BODs/day



    I've also received more Valorite BODs since last publish than I had pulled in the entire time I've done BODs. I got my first ever Valorite hammer small BOD just a couple days ago. I also pulled the Exc 15 Plate LBOD and three of the smalls for it since the publish. I think the Valorite BOD rate is finally acceptable.

    Cool, I just got a Barbed leather 4pc footwear BOD. Guess that really is working again too. Thanks Wilki.
     
  10. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Thanks again Gheed for the update. Your data from the 1st and 2nd 1000 bods are pretty consistent.

    I revisit my estimated chances for pulling sbods for verite and valorite hammers with your new data. My numbers did not change much: 1 sbod for verite hammer every ~500 runs; 1 sbod for valorite hammer every ~3000 runs.

    As for LBODs, the average ratio for LBOD:combinable sbod is ~1:4 to 5 for all ore types except weapon, which has a lot more sbods. Since you didn't break up the ring/chain/plate, we don't know whether LBOD vs sbod for ring is 1:4, for chain is 1:3 and for plate is 1:6. But the overall ratio is roughly approperite.
     
  11. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    My pleasure. So sad.... of all the above Valorite BODs, I none of them are the coveted 20x plate. What started all of this was my first 50 BODs after the change. In that batch I scored a 20x val plate tunic. Within the next 200 I got a 20x val plate arms! Yes I thought it was going to be that easy. So I started keeping track. over 2000 BODs later an not one 20x plate piece since. Means I'm due yes?
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Just hang in there...

    The only combinable Valorite BOD I'd gotten before the changes was a 20 Ex Ringmail LBOD.

    Then, in the first 540 I've tracked (just my legendary smith, not my runners), I got SIX more Valorite BODs - All of them non-combinables.

    Now, I turned in another 172 BODs for replacement since midnight, and the Patron Angel of BODs smiled....

    5 Valorite BODs - all are 20-count
    1 Normal 20 non-combinable
    3 Exceptional 20 Chainmail (2 tunic and a coif) - the reward for a large is a gold hammer.
    1 Exceptional 20 Platemail tunic (YES!!!!!)

    Sometimes the RNG does run in your favor....
     
  13. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    You already got two 20x val plates with 2250 turn-ins. According to your data and my calculation, you have been quite lucky.
     
  14. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    <blockquote><hr>

    You already got two 20x val plates with 2250 turn-ins. According to your data and my calculation, you have been quite lucky.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    More like 2 20x val plates in 3250 BODs now. But you are right....thats still way better than before. [​IMG]
     
  15. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Some observations:
    It seems the chance to get bronze bods dropped quite a bit from copper bods (from ~7.5% to ~4.5%) and declined slowly to ~3.5% over gold and agapite. Then another steep drop to ~1.5% for verite bods and ~0.75% for Val bods.

    The 40% chance of getting a non-combinable bod (shields/helms) keep the reward value at respectable level.

    A lot of players (casual boders) just fill and turn in the combinable sbods, including the high level ones, to get instant reward. It is a waste but hey you can't ask everyone treat bod as a religon.

    Gheed, make sure you don't get driven crazy by bods or PoleDancer, or the combination of the two.
     
  16. Antiochian

    Antiochian Guest

    Thanks for this amazing study. Very inspiring..

    Is there a UOAssist macro for combining items with the BOD? I macroe the crafting, but I get bored to death when clicking one by one to combine with the BOD.
     
  17. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Had a few folks asking about this in pms so I spose I'll spill the beans. Here is a copy of my response:

    I now have 15 runners that get a BOD every 1 hour. Those at 25ish skill ALWAYS get a metal kite sheild, bascinet, dagger, or metal shield BOD....always. So I have a UOA macro for each of those 4 things.

    Here's how I set it up:

    1. Get a 20 count BOD for each of the above four.
    2. Lets use Bascinets...purchase 20 bascinets.
    3. Be sure the UOA menu is set to "always on top".
    4. double click the 20 bascinet BOD and click the "combine this deed with the item requested" Button.
    5. At the UOA menu press the "record" button
    6. Fill the BOD by targeting all 20 bascinets one at a time by hand.
    7. Stop recording.
    8. At this point in time you should have recorded 20 "target item" actions in the macro.
    9. Right click each of these literals and select "Target item type" from the drop down. When you are finished you will have 20 actions named "Target Item Type". Basically dine here. Do not add pauses or anything else to the macro.

    10. Name the macro "Bascinets" or some sort of reminder of what the macro actually does.

    Repeat this process for each of the other three item types. You now have four permanent macros. Be sure to lock them so you dont accidentally record over them. Now you should have a play current macro hot key assigned in UOA. Play the macro then double click the next 10/15/20 count BOD for bascinets. when you hit the combine button it will almost instantly fill the bod with bascinets if you have them in your pack.

    Funny thing is this stops at 20 items. so if you fill a 15 count BOD, you can combine the remaning 5 items to the next BOD.

    For all other item types I do basically the same thing on one macro. Only I dont record the target item action 20 times...only twice. When I click the combine macro it will select two items from my pack and combine them. thump the play macro key then manually select the item. It will combine that item +2 more from the macro. Repeat untill finished. When you change item just right click "target item type" then "reset target" from the drop down. Select the new item to combine then set it to "target item type" for both lines. It isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread but it does cut down on mouse clicks alot. I use this macro when I have 150 or so smalls from turning in the BODs i get from my runners. By then I'll have enough of each oddball BOD item to justify taking the time to switch out the macro.

    Hope this helps. Need anything else just ask.
     
  18. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    Is poledancer still dancing away? Poor little thing.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i too am feeling filling bods is a waste of time.

    Besides having more powder of fort and low end runice (below bronze) than i can count. I dont get crap.

    my time would be better spent killing monsters, collecting gold and buying a valorite hammer for 35 mil.

    Your very detailed info just confirms what I have been seeing.

    The changes might have helped, but not nearly enough.

    One great change was the usefulness of the bronze runic. Its easy enough to get and can make a useable weapon.
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I wouldn't go that far...

    I'm only doing 6 smith runners, all with at least 70 skill (and my one 120 doing the turn-ins); I typically average 2 runs a day with them, plus I fill all the junk iron smalls to train the other 5 smiiths up (thank God for random gypsy camps in Ilshenar). I've gotten my first val plate EX 20 BOD, from the 1000 I've catalogued so far from just the 120 smith, and the last two smalls I needed for my first ASH +60 - that I had needed for over 2 years.

    I don't buy that type of stuff. I earn it. As it is, I've only had as much as half the price you give for a val hammer ONCE, and it was immediately spent at the time on a Magery 120 scroll (and for 2 weeks afterward my characters were in constant danger of having too little money to autorenew their insurance).

    I like bronze hammers too - been getting a lot of them. One of my recent guilty pleasures, after cranking out 38 POF BODs and getting 34 vials (and 4 gloves +5), was using 2 of the vials and the leftover part of a previous one, to make my combat miner/smith's suit and primary weapon all 255 resist.

    The biggest thing that would help would be a re-alignment of the BODs.

    Put the 11 non-combinables over to the weapon side of the decision tree, and that would substantially increase the number of combinable colored BODs, while reducing the number of non-combinables and weapon BODs.

    Current state is (ignoring the LBODs)
    50% Weapons (regardless of level)
    (GM/110/120 smith) 25%/15%/5% Iron Armor (11/24 are non-combinable)
    (GM/110/120 smith) 25%/35%/45% Colored Armor (11/24 are non-combinable)

    At GM smith this works out to
    50% Weapons
    11.45833% iron non-combinables
    13.54167% iron combinable armor
    11.4583% colored armor non-combinables
    13.54167% colored combinable armor

    At 110 Smith, this is
    50% weapons
    6.875% as iron armor non-combinable
    8.125% as iron combinable armor
    16.04167% as colored armor non-combinable
    18.95833% as colored combinable armor

    At 120 Smith, this is
    2.29167% iron non-combinables
    2.20833% iron combinables
    20.625% colored non-combinables
    24.375% colored combinables


    Still way too many weapon BODs, and too few combinable colored BODs.
    ******

    Essentially, change the decision tree to

    Combinable Armor / Weapons &amp; non-combinables

    Occuring before color selection, and you get....

    100 Smith
    25% Iron armor (combinable)
    25% Colored Armor (combinable)
    (25/36)*50% = 34.722% Weapon BODs
    (11/36)*25% = 7.3689% Iron non-combinables
    (11/36)*25% = 7.3689% Colored non-combinables

    110 Smith
    15% Iron Armor (combinable)
    35% Colored Armor (combinable)
    (25/36)*50% = 34.722% Weapon BODs
    (11/36)*15% = 4.5833% Iron non-combinables
    (11/36)*35% = 10.6944% Colored non-combinables

    120 Smith
    5% Iron Armor (combinable)
    45% Colored Armor (combinable)
    (25/36)*50% = 34.7222% Weapon BODs
    (11/36)*5% = 1.5278% Iron non-combinables
    (11/36)*45% = 13.75% Colored non-combinables

    **********

    Now, compare the new status quo with my suggestion (for a 120 smith)
    Weapons BODs: 50% / 34.7222%
    Iron non-combinables: 2.29167% / 1.5278%
    Iron Combinables: 2.20833% / 5%
    Colored non-combinables: 20.625% / 13.75%
    Colored Combinables: 24.375% / 45%

    Doesn't that look a LOT better?
     
  21. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    You know, I was just going to suggest making female plate bods combinable with LBODs. But it isn't enough. I like your idea better.

    Now don't get me wrong I love the changes. I have made nearly 25 mil since they went into effect. But still it could be just a tad bit easier to get a Val runic and just a bit tougher to get PoF(i have 300 now). Your idea does both.

    I did read about a crafting focus group in the HoC. I'd love to get in on that.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yup, i have to agree. I wonder if all my time spent is just wasted.


    I am sooooo slowly collecting bods to fill anything worthwhile.

    The over abundance of powder of fort has dropped the price a lot on my server.

    Yet, I still have not filled a gold hammer + out of a few thousands bods.

    Considering i have no use for dull and shadow, and really copper.

    That means after thousands of bods, all i have to use are bronze hammers.

    I could kill mongbats and earn more gold....and it would just as much fun as filling 100 bods per night