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41 minute UO interview with Vogel and Walton.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Derium of ls, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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  2. PsychoKinetic

    PsychoKinetic Journeyman
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    Excellent find. Thanks Derium.
     
  3. Fogsbane

    Fogsbane Seasoned Veteran
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    Excellent video, thank you Derium for the post about this. The discussion was great to hear, even with the background distractions - Sheep for the wolves, undirected world, craptastical connections, tens of thousands of bugs, constant triage, 'funnest game worked on', imagination of players. Wonderful stuff.
     
  4. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    been a lot of talk about old school UO lately. I'm also looking forward to Garriotts talk coming up soon.
     
  5. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Markee picks the weirdest and worst ways to interview people. Just saying, lol. I mean, props for getting them done and all, just, why not get a conference room or something?
     
  6. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    I've wondered the same. He's got the best video quality around, yet worst audio due to his locations.
     
  7. NorCal

    NorCal Guest

    I was a big classic supporter, but this video makes me wonder if I could ever get that feeling back. Not only in UO, but in any game. The talk about the wild west, player ingenuity, and just the rush of playing a game with real consiquences for the first time ever with other players probably can never be repeated. Plus I was 19 years old at the time and a lot more into games.

    It made me laugh we he talked about smashing his mouse, because I broke a mouse out of anger playing UO. The only time I ever did anything like that over a game. I was on a red and my 56k got disconnected when my friend called me and let it ring until my connection died. I wasn't even killed by anyone, but I was in stat loss and earth elementals got me in Shame. I was actually pissed at my friend that called me. All he wanted to do was hang out a drink a few beers, but I was so pissed.

    God good times. I'm not sure any game can recreate that feeling for me. Right now I don't play any online game, but I'm waiting for something that can recreate classic UO. I did the WoW thing, but got bored of the item grind and it's one fo the things that turns me off about current UO. That and I like PvP in my gaming and don't want to be treated like a sociopath for enjoying that aspect of a game.
     
  8. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The video froze up for me about 2/3 of the way through. But I was disheartened by the sound of what looked like those guys having given in to the idea that the only way to make MMORPGs is to make an EQ clone (like WoW). It seems the entire establishment of the gaming industry has tossed in the towel on the idea of making a true, worldly, Sandboxy game like UO started out being.

    I hope I'm wrong. I think not. I expect a great Sandbox to someday be made, but it'll come from someone who comes up through other ranks, like Facebook games or a success story like (can't think of the name now, that "box" game where you can shape the world that's a big hit right now).
     
  9. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    One problem is that most of those past devs have moved on to bigger projects and nobody wants to fund a sandbox game at that level. If given a choice between the numbers of UO or EVE Online, or WoW, the big companies are going to pursue WoW every time.

    Had UO been able to grown in the face of WoW rather than lose subscriptions, I think things would have been different. Then again, EVE Online continues to grow, and it came out before WoW. Sandbox games can grow over the long run, but the problem is even a success like EVE still only has less than 350,000 subscribers. That's great for smaller companies, but the major companies are aiming for much higher. The EA CEO sees 1 million Star Wars players as a bare minimum to shoot for and he's far from being alone. Warhammer should have made them a lot more gunshy, but if anything it's made them want to stick to the formula even more.

    I think it's very telling that not only do sandbox games lack the kinds of numbers needed to garner attention for new development, but player housing has also fallen by the wayside for the most part. Outside of UO, EQ, and Darkfall, in major MMOs where player housing is available, it's an afterthought and/or not meant to be long-term. In most MMOs, player housing is a rental type of situation where players are prevented from "owning" a home.

    Back in the early days of MMOs, I remember reading plenty of articles where all of the analysts and writers felt that UO's housing would be the thing of the future and that any successful MMO would have to have solid player housing. Instead, the biggest MMO does not have it and has no intention of adding it. I think this might change with Titan though. If Blizzard wants Titan to be viable in 20 years, I don't see how they can do it without having something that creates a really long-term connection with the players.
     
  10. Ancient Sosarian

    Ancient Sosarian Journeyman
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    Hail Sosarians,

    I found it sad, and insulting to hear all 3 refer to UO "was" as tho it no longer exists. It remains awesome.

    Sadly EA also treats UO as tho it "was" once alive tho now dead. I think, and hope the Dev Team and staff treat it as the Enduring Marvel it IS!

    An SoS
     
  11. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    WoW was suppose to have player housing, but they yanked it before it went live.
     
  12. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Man, I've tried to respond to this twice now and deleted it to start over. There is too much to say, and I've been saying it for years in parts and pieces. And I'm just tired of it. Some day I think I'll make a web site and spell it all out, with reasoning and all, and how everything ties together.

    But the short end of it all, these are game makers making games for gamers who have only ever played games... like they've ever made.

    And what the next step is, the true "next gen", goes past that and into social engineering, AI, Terraforming, and World like no one has ever done World before. And that includes story and mystery and charm.
    And the key to this is in the video streaming tech that's being developed now for MMOs.
     
  13. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    And they've never had any incentive to add it in and take it live, not when they keep growing, especially when they grow at the expense of games that do have it.
     
  14. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I would agree with that, except that you left out the part about game makers making games for companies to sell to gamers who have only ever played games like they've ever made.

    I don't think the sandbox is necessarily a dead model though, I just think too many companies are looking to copy the success of the rail MMOs because it's very safe, and because, tying somewhat into what you are saying, there are very few gamers these days that have been exposed to sandbox games. The gamers shoulder a little blame since most do not expect anything but the latest leveling game, but ultimately they will play the games the companies make. It's also a lot easier for game companies to make rail games than sandbox . Nobody wants to go through what the early devs went through with UO, not when 10s of millions of dollars are at stake, if not more. It's going to require indie developers doing things like Minecraft to break people out of that mindset.

    Just imagine how cool it would be for the Star Wars MMO to be a true sandbox MMO. It would be very appealing to you or I, but it would probably screw with a lot of gamers. End result: another MMO focused on items/leveling, complete with space combat that is literally on a rail to the point where you can't deviate from where you are going or what you are fighting. They call that aspect "tunnel shooter" but it's no different than the rail you'll probably end up on when you're not in your ship. An EVE Online player would turn their nose up at such a space combat system, but the target audience for Star Wars will probably not stop to consider the fact that it's incredibly silly that a $300 million Star Wars MMO does not have actual free-flying ship-to-ship combat and that instead you are on the interstellar equivalent of a roller coaster.

    Still, there is Minecraft. Minecraft gives me some hope, because it means that a lot people have been exposed to the sandbox and it's raised quite a bit of money and gotten a lot of attention. Even if many people didn't realize they've been exposed to a sandbox game or realize the value of it, there is a large group of very prolific Minecraft players who do realize that. Second Life gets a small nod as well, although it appears to be having some serious problems that are more than just growing pains. There are certain things about it that tended to work against it over the long run. A lot of people look down their noses at those two, but I know people who are addicted to Minecraft, who have the same tendencies and attitudes of my friends who were incredibly addicted to UO early on. Both Minecraft and Second Life have a lot more sand in the sandbox than most sandbox games.
    I hope you're right, but I fear we are headed towards more WoW clones that are just adding Facebook/iPhone/etc. components. I am insanely curious to see what Blizzard does with Titan. They are really pushing the idea that it's going to change things and that it's good enough to relevant for the next 20 years. I don't see how they could ignore the social aspects of it. What we see now with WoW and the iPhone, where you can check auctions, research gear, look at your in-game calendar, etc., I think is just the tip of the iceberg for them.

    I have a hope that somebody is watching UO, and Second Life, and Minecraft, and even some of the rail games, and is thinking about tying all of this together. There already people marrying Minecraft to the Ultima universe - Ultima 6 Minecraft Conversion is one example. Ultima Online within Minecraft is another example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwC_3tPSt8

    This is another:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HZ_OGizAJs

    Minecraft is a really weird bird, given the graphics and how much work is required. It seems like it draws the kinds of people who go crazy with house decorating in UO.
     
  15. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    those videos are awesome, spent some time looking around youtube, there seems to be a lot of them