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95% done how much longer?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GL_Seller, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    Just curious as to what people think when cal posted this. When i read it i laughed i thought i had heard it all from uo when coming to speedhacking. We are working on it etc. Now that they are throwing numbers would be interesting to see what people really think...

    My guess is a year.
     
  2. Warsong of LS

    Warsong of LS Seasoned Veteran
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    You forgot one option...that they will never get if fixed. Its only been broke for years.
     
  3. EricVT

    EricVT Adventurer
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    I think they've been "working on it" for about a decade now, so 95% of ten years is 9.5 years...still about 6 months to go it seems like :p
     
  4. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    wots a speedhack
     
  5. Lady Narsil

    Lady Narsil Guest

    I would say at least 6 months before we hear about it again and if we are lucky it will be done. Who knows... I know there are people speedhacking but I also know that a lot of players think anyone faster than them is hacking and that is just not true. So it will fix somethings but not much.
     
  6. canary

    canary Guest

    I vote this.
     
  7. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    This is just a another dangled carrot. Well, a rotten dangled carrot at this point.

    Will believe it when I see it in action on a production shard. 8 years is a loooong time to wait.
     
  8. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    I think it is already out and they are getting the goods on the accounts using them. Remember back Draconi said that they were working on dupers and the next thing you knew a lot of houses, items and gold went up in flames.
     
  9. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I voted 2 years. But I am hoping more like 6 months. Though they fix speedhacking, all the players who rely on speed will just start using the EC :(
     
  10. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    HAHA i wanted to put never but just couldnt get myself to put it. I still hope they will fix it.

    I dont want them to ban the cheaters just stop them from cheating. I mean the game has to few of players as is. Personally ID LOVE to be able to kill the guys that have abused this for so long.
     
  11. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I vote "never" Since it really is impossible to actually stop it, as for what they are most likely talking about I am going to go with 6 months to a year :p
     
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I say 6 months, enough time for a new expansion to be announced should EA stay in business. But I feel it will be hard to prevent speedhack ... basically, EA needs to change the contract, and players will need to sign to new terms to give EA ability to scan computers, I would imagine.
     
  13. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    All they would need to do is monitor the data stream from your client.

    If the character's position is changing outside of a certain valid range then auto-record a few seconds and dump the character into a holding cell until a GM can check the recording. If the record shows the character was changing position to quickly than block the account for a day, lengthening the block an additional day each time it happens.

    The classic client seems to need to access the UO system every three steps. If the last character position sent to the system was at Luna's south gate, and the position sent after three steps is halfway to Malas, then the game system should note it and send an alert to a GM.

    A simple if/then test of the data stream from the game clients.
     
  14. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    -I'm not 100%, but the last time I read our agreement they were able to scan our computers to an extent; and that has been the case for quite a few years...
    I'm not saying or suggesting that they've actually done it.
    By definition, 'scan our computers' is subjective & I know they would not take advantage of the info. on any confidential files unless they wanted to lose their multi-billion dollar incomes due to wildly publicized lawsuits, but I'm almost positive anyone playing has already agreed to having their 'computers scanned' to some extent (unless I'm thinking of Testing agreements that do not apply to actual game agreements). The contract change has long been in place, imo. It is just a matter of time before they utilize that to prevent cheating while they do absolutely nothing else with any irrelevant data that they may notice on your computer (just like Microsoft has done and Microsoft users have willingly entrusted them to do for many years); and I say do it, as I am one that believes in fair gaming, and certainly believes in personal privacy.
    ...
    As to how much longer? About 5% longer
    - hopefully sooner, yes / but, maybe later - to try to quantify unknowns is futile, imo, and that is why I believe we weren't given an exact date... so no vote.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Speed hacking is not the only cheat used in PvP.

    Addressing only speedhacking and not also other cheats will not get PvP out of its troubles, I think.
     
  16. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    The poll is kind of... I don't know, worthless? We don't know what exactly they're doing to stop it, or how many other things they're working on. Plus the last 5% of a development cycle, if memory serves, is implimintation who knows how long it'll implement. All this shows is what people think based on what the DEVs have said before, which may or may not be correct thus it'd be imposible to answer, it'd probably be impossible for a DEV to answer.
     
  17. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    One step at a time..
     
  18. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    While i agree it would be nice to see some of the cheats forced to play without cheating, many of these players would also be the first to look for new ways of cheating.. Personally I dont think they should be playing UO at all.
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    As others have pointed out, speedhacking is not the only cheat used in PvP.

    But it just occurred to me that there's a deeper issue.

    You know how people say that the team can't effectively deal with scripting without hurting sales overall, because so many people script?

    That's pretty unlikely, if you're talking about scripters versus the game population over all.

    But, if we believe half of what the PvP community has said about itself, cheating is quite widespread in that community. Widespread enough that one faces a choice between cheating or not competing at all. I see this said in global chat on a near-constant basis, and it's said here pretty often.

    Keep in mind, I'm not saying "PvPers are cheaters." Rather, I'm pointing out something that cannot possibly be in reasonable dispute: PvPers say that PvPers are cheaters. And they say it a lot.

    Arbitrarily, let's say half of the accusations are true. Just half.

    Could the last 5% that the Producer's talking about be the fear that attacking cheating diminishes the size of the PvP community overall?

    If that's his fear.....Is he right? Or do you all think that once cheating is attacked and dealt with to at least some degree, people who have become accustomed to cheating in order to successfully compete against cheaters will adapt, and maybe even be happier overall?

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    One thing to maybe consider, as it is now, everyone has access to said "cheats" right? But if they stopped only a few of them from working, then it could just become more exclusive and even more unfair. Possible..
     
  21. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    The strange thing is, I've played on pretty well populated "free" servers that combat cheating, speedhacking, duping far more efficiently than the EA servers. Their numbers haven't deminished because of more stringent efforts to stop cheating.

    Granted, they might not have financial or subscription numbers to consider, but there comes a watershed time when something has to be done. I personally believe that the benefits will outweigh the negatives. I also believe that if they do manage to beat cheating successfully, we might see more genuine players returning to UO, against those who cheat who might leave.
     
  22. Santa Claus

    Santa Claus Visitor

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    Never seen a Speedhacker and did not Speedman assure us that there is a hardcap on the servers anyway?
     
  23. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    i dont see never....... peeps been speedhackin for 10 years they been sayin they gunna stop it for 9years.....
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yes; something about how movement is partly on your computer and partly on the server, and the server limits how afst you can actually go, versus how fast you can appear to go on the client end.

    But that's been a long time.

    If someone wants to have found a way around it, they could surely have found one by now.

    The mere fact that this issue is being mentioned, at the Producer level no less, means there's something behind it, or at least that the team thinks there is.

    I suppose they could think we're full of it and just saying they'll do something as a placebo....But that doesn't feel too likely, does it. It's more likely that they think there's something going on and something they can do about it.

    What surprises me is the focus on speed-hacks versus 3rd party programs and stuff along the lines of the Quiver of Rage bug. (Because even though that particular bug has been fixed, you know there's something similar out there. In fact I'll wager I'm one of the last people to find out about it, and that maybe everyone else knows by now.)

    -Galen's player
     
  25. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    Point 1 about the developers taking note, Most, if not all, UO hacks are very public, and thus EA can get their hands on them at any time and dissect them to know how they work, so yea they have an idea about what is going on.

    Point 2 about the speed-hacks versus 3rd party programs.....There is only really 1 third-party program that even remotely affects game play as much as speed hacking does, and even then it mostly only affects game play directly in pvp, the other portion of game play it affects is the economy (yea it is a HUGE deal to me but it is less direct than the first issue). Now as for stopping third party programs vs trying to control speed hacking....Speed hacking is much more controllable on a code level than third party apps are, as someone mentioned trying to put a test in the data stream may work, for a time at the very least, but over all the mainstream of speed hacking can be stopped (dedicated programmers/hackers will still be able to accomplish it I have no doubts but still 1% of the current 50%(we are claiming its 50 some where in this thread) is way better) but third party apps are not as easy since they manipulate the memory and no way to test for it in the data stream, and you can only really scan for known 3rd party apps, so as long as people are willing to create new ones, or change them, or what have you, it would seem like the endless cycle.

    Edit: Forgot to mention Point 3, bug abuse....Can not really battle bug abuse until you know there is a bug. =\
     
  26. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    they will get data steam ones most likely but all the ones that speed up your computer won't be fixed. it is a joke and the best computer talent will find a way to bypass that anyways and then it will be even more uneven
     
  27. Raconteur

    Raconteur Guest

    Nuff Said!
     
  28. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Ah okay but for third party, would need a scan? Or just same deal, checking stream? I thought when they were going to do Punkbuster it scanned computer.

    That's interesting, I wonder if that might shed light on why Gargoyles aren't syncing right when they move over seats.
     
  29. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    We have a concept in software development known as the 90-90 Rule. This smells like a classic case.
     
  30. Supreem

    Supreem Founder, Citadel Studios
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    I'm actually playing around with the movement system changes right now. And Cogniac has hit the nail on the head. The last bit is the hardest. We have an alternate movement system implemented, the trick is getting it to work correctly with different kinds of connections and situations (latency, packet loss, area server crossing, etc)
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    So, in other words, there's 95% done and still about 90% to go?
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Just make sure you don't penalize players with fast connections,computers,pings,people who optimize there systems for gaiming etc..
     
  33. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Blimey! This new movement system wouldn't allow better boat movement, too, would it? (Can't stop mentioning the Seafaring Expansion, you know me.) :)
     
  34. Terrorknight

    Terrorknight Guest

    I kind of like your expansion idea. You seem to have it pretty well planned out.
     
  35. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    It does not matter if it is fixed or not. Some folks will always complain that you were cheating when they die to you.

    Before I retired as an active PvPer, I used to get accused of cheating half the times I killed someone. A significant portion of PvPers would rather blame their deaths on some imaginary cheat than accepting that they sucked and actually thinking about how they can change their tactics in the future. I have seen this type of behavior so many times - both from friends and foes. The lies and exaggerations people make up are borderline hilarious at times.
     
  36. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    Tomas is 100% correct. The ONLY advantageous cheats/exploits in pvp i know of right now is speedhacking, exp pots, and using a particular box macro to run through multiple para fields. Other than that, anyone who cries about scripts/hacks etc. are completely ignorant. I actually had someone say to me "your nothing without your auto-cure". People just can't accept the fact that they suck sometimes.
     
  37. Ozymandies

    Ozymandies Guest

    Well, my understanding is that the game works in 1/4 sec tics. If you check the server every three tiles, the max speed would be 12 tiles per second.

    Still very fast. Supreem, though, could comment on the new speed limit.

    OZ