1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

A Call for Governing Alternatives

Discussion in 'UO Catskills' started by Solomon Wright, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. Greetings,

    Forgive my lack of introductions. I am sure we will come to know each other in due time...

    Recent events have brought an old debate back to the streets of Britannia. The ascension of Lord Casca to the throne has been questioned and discredited by countless citizens, with some even calling for his assassination or arrest. The death of the Council, the arrest of Captain Avery, and the lack of transparency into the new king's nomination have caused a wave of distrust and anger to crash upon our shores.

    It is in times of great change that we are forced to confront our deepest fears and hopes, to choose the future we wish to manifest. And so it is here, at these crossroads we now face, that we must determine if the current governing structure of Britannia still serves its people.

    If we desire to act in accordance with the Virtues, we must find solutions to the problems we face, not simply complain about them.

    With this in mind, I would like to convene a meeting of concerned citizens to discuss viable alternatives to the monarchy now imposed upon us. To solve the political crisis we may be facing, we must explore ways to conjure a unified vision of the future independent of the legacy government that has been dying since Lord British's departure. Is the future of Sosaria democratic, socialist, communist, capitalist, dystopian or utopian? Let us decide as a people, instead of allowing an elite to do it for us.

    On Wednesday, January 21st at 10:00pm Eastern, gather in the Chamber of Virtue in Trammel's Britain with an open mind, a golden heart, and a desire to shape your own destiny. An open debate will be held to determine the course of action we must take to reshape the coming chapter, to ensure we do not fail the generations that will follow in our footsteps...

    -Solomon Wright, Sosarian Monk
     
  2. As an addendum to my call for an emergency meeting of concerned citizens, here is my account of Lord Casca's 8:00pm speech on Saturday, January 17th, 2009, at Castle Blackthorn in Trammel...

    I arrived at Castle Blackthorn approximately thirty minutes before the scheduled event, via a strange static moongate that appeared near New Haven. I found the castle gates were closed, with a tall, thin pedestal set up at the end of the drawbridge.

    After failing to find a way to teleport into the castle, I eventually used a boat to sail around the front and leapt into the castle garden, where I found a field of magic that prevented teleportation beyond the hedges. I decided to bide my time sitting in a tree.

    I noticed a man casting a strange spell on the other side of the gate, and then suddenly appear newly resurrected in the castle's courtyard. We spoke for a bit, and he would only say he used Armageddon to "fling" himself through the gates, but would not elaborate further.

    After some time, a moongate randomly appeared that led inside the courtyard from the drawbridge, but it was short-lived, and only a few people made it through. The few that did found they could open gates outside the castle, however, and began bringing more citizens in.

    ...at which point Casca appeared on the pedestal on the other side of the gate, and everyone inside had to quickly rush outside to hear him.

    According to Evaluate Intelligence, Casca looked only about average, of moderate intelligence. A closer look revealed the trappings of nothing more than a Neophyte Scholar.

    He stated all members of the Council were killed, and a new Council was assembled from the nobles of the land. I yelled to him that Clainin was alive and bedridden in New Haven, at which point he stated he spent the previous night at Clainin's bedside, where he received the mage's blessing. Strangely, Casca mispronounced Clainin's name several times during his speech, calling him "Clanin". Casca even invited us to ask Clainin, but a visit to New Haven later showed the man still immobile and mostly silent, save random utterings about Armageddon.

    He insisted the new Council he referred to voted him in unanimously, but stated he wished to gain the people's trust. He then made a series of promises, all involving bloodshed: fighting the ophidians, defeating the Shadow Lords, ending the invasions. There was no mention of civil projects of any kind.

    When asked about Captain Avery, the crowd was told he was under investigation for being a member of the Followers of Armageddon.

    Casca then demanded the crowd bow to his reign multiple times, which received a chorus of boos.

    At the close of his speech, he announced the removal of city independence bestowed by Lord British, saying any city that did not kneel to the crown would be "outlawed". He concluded with the announcement that a tax collector would be coming around to collect debt from all citizens, so that everyone would "share the burden".

    Unsurprisingly, the taxation announcement caused the most negative reaction of the evening, although I question whether that is truly the most dire of our concerns...

    Apparently, there's another speech scheduled for Sunday, 01/18/09 at 3:00pm. It will be interesting to see how far Casca deviates from his first speech in his second attempt to win over the Britannia population...
     
  3. Shh!

    Shh! Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    30
    Treason! Casca is the king.

    Civil projects? Have you not noticed, the kingdom is under constant attack! It's my hope that he rules with an iron fist. Order is needed in times like these: Hope is for the foolish, order is for the just.
     
  4. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    As long as no one claims it is time for a queen....lol
     
  5. A call by Lord Casca to outlaw some of the realms most longstanding and steadfast independent states is one of wanton disregard for the welfare of the very citizens those states protect. You can count on the Empire of HONOR to stand unwavering in the face of this thoughtless and pretentious sovereign.
     
  6. Uthar Pendragon

    Uthar Pendragon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    3
    Even in the worst of times lord british never called for taxes. He would ask for the people to do what was needed at the time. Be it resources or hearty blades. Every time the citizens did what was needed to fight back the evil.

    Now an unknown coucil that came from where? Has made this person King.
    Who are these people that elected to give such power to someone relatively unknown and until just recently not a part of these lands. He is an elf after all.

    What will happen to these so called "outlaw towns"? Will they be left unprotected in time of need? Will they be "forced" back into the fold? To many Questions are left unanswered by this Pretender now called King.

    I for one will defend this land but not this so called king and his new taxes. Evil will not be allowed to gain hold of the friends and lands I hold dear.
     
  7. Shh!

    Shh! Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    30
    I heard no such call for soup. Perhaps I missed it. No matter. Do you accuse the King of trying to rally Tokuno to his side with promises of wide noodles?? ;)
     
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    LOLO omg ty thats awesome.

    All Hail Casca!!!
     
  9. Twould not suprise me if the Lord Casca did indeed try to sway the Empress of Tokuno with a promise of such a culinary delicacy. Hehe.
     
  10. Moreeg

    Moreeg Guest

    I didnt care for what Casca said sunday about taking up arms against Trinsic if the High Council wouldnt fall in line with his plans...
     
  11. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    <start RP>
    Greetings, my friends.
    As I will likely be unable to attend, I wish to pass along my thoughts early. Casca has most definitly become king under most suspicious circumstances, but it seems to me that attempting to overthrow his reign at this time would not be in Britannia's best interest. Right now, what is best for Britannia, is for people to stand united against the forces attempting to bring death to the masses: The Shadowlords and the Followers of Armageddon. We do not need to all agree, and we should not take anyone's words as truth without putting them to the test, but we should work together towards this common goal.
    If Casca acts in a way that puts people in danger, instead of simply causing a minor annoyance like so many are up in arms about today, then perhaps an overthrowing of government could be considered. Or if the Shadowlords and Followers are dealt with, and we come to a period when there are no real threats left aside from a potentially corrupt government wanting to collect taxes... then perhaps a change in government should be discussed.
    Right now, Britannians face two well known enemies without having any choice. I beseach all of you to not make the choice to add a third enemy to the list, and effectively ensure that everybody suffers more.

    Keep a close eye, discuss possibilities for the future, express distaste for Casca, offer suggestions as to how things could be better... but do not create more enemies when they are already plentiful.

    - Sahra Swift
    </end RP>
     
  12. Sahra,

    You make a compelling argument, and your points deserve discussion.

    With that said, what if Casca's ascent is tied to the Shadowlords or the Followers of Armageddon? Wouldn't substantiation of his coronation be in order, to ensure that's not the case...especially considering the Followers of Armageddon are being referenced in connection with the murder of the Council?

    Additionally, if the Shadowlords and the Followers of Armageddon are to be defeated, it is imperative we have effective leadership at the reins. Your argument about focusing on the more immediate threats might be related to Casca, what with a proposed war against the Ophidians, new taxation, and stripping cities of their independence. Further, even if his rise is independent of the enemies you reference as more relevant, Casca could represent a third threat that actually is just as dire: there is no way to know until we learn more.

    My concern is that blind allegiance to a monarchy with no accountability is the issue at hand here, and it has driven a wedge between the people of Britannia with Casca's sudden rise to power.

    Since Lord British's departure, Sosaria has essentially been in a state of anarchy, with infrequent appearances by nobility accounting for the extent of our government's presence.

    Due diligence is all I am recommending. If the end result is that Casca's throne is verified as a legitimate claim, I would be satisfied, as long as the system at play is clear and abides by Britannian law.

    Let us assume the extreme: a democratic government is established. In this new era of Britannian politics, it is quite possible Casca would win an election for the highest office. I would also be satisfied with that result, again, as long as the system at play is clear and abides by Britannian law.

    The goal of Wednesday's meeting is not to create division; it is intended more as a remedy for the division that already exists. When I stand on the drawbridge of Castle Blackthorn and hear so many people calling for the head of the man who might be king, I feel an obligation to bring peace to both sides at a point of common ground.

    If we are to recognize Casca as king, so be it, but let us come to this acceptance in a way that satisfies the concerns of the population, and the Virtues of Britannia. And if we are to set out in a new direction, let us discuss what our options are, and strive not for revolution, but for renaissance...

    Until Wednesday, my friends.

    -Solomon Wright, Sosarian Monk
     
  13. Moreeg

    Moreeg Guest

    I have to agree with Solomon.

    Maybe some of us have overreacted... I myself may have been hasty in things I have said since the announcement, but I cant help but feel that this was all done in an overly secretive manner.

    Would it have been so difficult to approach the High Council of Trinsic? Even if it was done merely as a courtesy to them, it would have went a long way towards building some good feelings toward this shacking event. Casca could have addressed some of our concerns instead of dismissing them out of hand.

    In one fell swoop we are told that we must bow to a new king, will be taxed and are basically under martial law, all while we hear mumblings of plots and conspiracies concerning the very person we are supposed to bend knee to now...
     
  14. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Hmmmm Bowing??, taxes???, martial law??.. Now where did I set my axe? I need to polish and sharpen it for when the tax man comes to visit!
     
  15. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    <start RP>
    It seems my words are being skewed.
    I do not want Casca's words to be followed blindly. I also do not want Casca to even start to be considered as king in areas that are not, and never have been, under Britannian rule until such time as an opportunity arises where he can show how his rule may improve the lives of those in such areas.

    The "proposed" war on Ophidians is not a proposed war. It has already been initiated, and it was the Ophidians who struck the first blow. Casca may be off base in condemning all Ophidians, but they continue to attack Vesper regularly.
    The new taxation is not new, he is simply seeking to start enforcing existing taxes once again.
    The stripping of independence is the only area where Casca may be stepping too far. If he demands the colonies of Luna and Umbra to start following the laws of Britannia again, he is well within his authority. If he demands that all in Trinsic follow Britannian laws or leave, he is well within his authority. Those regions are legally and rightfully under Britannian rule, and have been for as long as those living there have occupied those regions.
    If he starts to encroach on Aegis territory, however, or demands those from Istas follow Britannian law... he is overstepping his reach and those actions should be fully resisted.

    Casca must be accountable to the people he seeks to rule, but warring the people against a kingdom before that kingdom has actually done any wrong is suicide.

    Correct Casca if he missteps. Refuse to obey orders or laws that are clearly not in the best interested for Britannia, or are imposed upon regions that are not a part of Britannia. Be careful with who you trust, not knowing who may have fallen under the sway of the Shadowlords or Followers of Armageddon... but do not fall into Hatred yourselves and doom us all.

    - Sahra Swift
    </end RP>
     
  16. Sahra, I have to correct you there. While Trinsic still maintains Brittanian law, this is only as a courtesy to Lord British's positions. The city was given to the Purple Guardians of Honor years ago by Lord British himself, and our Pater Imperium Borg has the Deed to Trinsic residing in his bank box. We did not deviate Trinsic's laws from the other Brittanian Cities, other than a bit stricter control on riding horses throughout the city to try and keep the damage to the cobblestones to a minimum. Those repairs come out of someones pocket after all.

    Trinsic has been under the Guardian's possession and protection since Trammel was started, and GM's and EM's and Seers have all acknowledged this. Even Casca acknowledged that it was given to us, though he was only acknowledging it in so far as that he was planning to take it back. Since we own the Deed to Trinsic, and are it's protectors, he has no jurisdiction in the City of Honor. We also are in command of Trinsic's seat on the Great Council, which was bestowed along with the Deed to Trinsic by Lord British.
     
  17. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,644
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    War...huh...yeah
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing
    Uh ha haa ha
    War...huh...yeah
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...say it again y'all
    War..huh...look out...
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...listen to me ohhhhh
    WAR! I despise,
    'cause it means destruction of innocent lives,
    War means tears to thousands of mother's eyes,
    When their sons gone to fight and lose their lives.
    I said WAR!...huh...good God y'all,
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...say it again
    War! Huh...What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...listen to me
    WAR! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker,
    War. Friend only to the undertaker.
    Ohhh! War is an enemy to all mankind,
    The thought of war blows my mind.
    War is caused and raised within the younger generation,
    Induction then destruction...who wants to die? Ohhh
    WAR! Good God y'all huh
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...say it say it SAY IT!
    WAR! Uh huh yeah hu!
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...listen to me
    WAR! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker,
    War! It's got one friend that's the undertaker.
    Ohhhh! War has shattered many a young man's dream,
    Made him disabled, bitter and mean,
    Life is much too short and precious to spend fighting wars these days.
    War can't give life; it can only take it away!
    Ohhh WAR! huh...good God y'all
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...say it again
    War!...huh...woh oh oh Lord
    What is it good for?
    Absolutely nothing...listen to me
    War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker,
    War. Friend only to the undertaker...woo
    Peace lovin' understand then tell me,
    Is there no place for them today?
    They say we must fight to keep our freedom,
    But Lord knows there's got to be a better way.
    Ohhhhhhh WAR! huh...good God y'all...
    What is it good for?...you tell me!
    Say it say it say it saaaay it!
    War! Good God now...huh
    What is it good for?
    Stand up and shout it...NOTHING!


    I say rise up rise up!!!!

    I refuse to live under the yoke of tyranny..... ( what ever that means)

    We have a constitutional obligation.....when the government of the land no longer meets our needs, it is our obligation to replace it!
    ( technically it is your obligation, I signed an exclusion pact)

    :gun:
     
  18. Sahra,

    No one is intentionally skewing your words, I assure you.

    The entirety of Britannia is included under the rule of a Britannian king. That includes the area east of Empath Abbey, meaning Aegis is not exempt from Casca's claim.

    I find it curious that your line of resistance begins with that township; I assume you are a resident?

    Further, no one has called for war against Casca. The meeting on Wednesday evening is to discuss what future we would like to see, and by what means we can and should work to manifest it. No call to action has been made, short of assembling for discussion and debate.

    I am bound by a vow of pacifism, meaning the idea of "warring the people against a kingdom" is in direct contrast with my character and my intentions. Violence is not something you will find me advocating tomorrow evening.

    I agree that caution regarding who we trust is prudent. I would extend that caution to a king, said to be elected by a murdered council, under the rules of a government irrelevant since British's departure.

    Let us meet as a people, guided by the Virtues, and determine the best course of action collectively.

    With an open mind, a golden heart, and a desire to unify...

    -Solomon Wright, Sosarian Monk
     
  19. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4
    <start rp>
    Katherine,
    If Lord British did truly give the Guardians rule over Trinsic, without any conditions that have since been violated, then Casca has no rightful claim to rule over her and I retract my previous statement about the City.
    Please be certain over the facet in which Lord British gave the Guardians before acting, however. I do not know the details of the offer.

    Solomon,
    Intentional skewing or not, there was a skew. I simply want to correct the skew before people act upon that as opposed to my intentions.
    The entire world of Britannia is not, and has never, been under the rule of the Kingdom of Britannia. The Kingdom has held claim over the Cities (in both facets) of Britain, Cove, Yew, Minoc, Vesper, Trinsic (seemingly at least one facet of which was relinquished to the Purple Guardians of Honor), Skara Brae, Jhelom, Magincia (and still holds claim, despite it being in ruins), and Moonglow. The Kingdom also holds rule over the Shrines of Virtue, the Shrine of Chaos, and the Public Moongates in Trammel and Felucca. At the discovery of Malas, the abandoned cities of Luna and Umbra were colonized by the Kingdom.
    I do not know for certain if Nu'jelm or Occlo were, or still are, legally parts of the Kingdom of Britannia.
    Unless I have mistakenly left a region off my list (which is possible, I have not double-checked any written record), no other areas within Britannia are under the rule of the Kingdom of Britannia.

    As a second note, you claim Casca was "elected by a murdered council". Casca claims to have been appointed King by a new Council, formed from nobles in Britannia. Since their identities are understandably being kept secret, they cannot be asked themselves, and it cannot be judged if they should actually be on this new Council. Certainly suspicious, and caution must be taken, but it is well within reason for the rules of the Kingdom to be acting as they are.

    We have known enemies, and we have the unproven. Some may have known friends, but not Britannia as a whole, nor even most of the independent townships and cities. As seems to have already been understood from my prior writings, I believe we should unite with the unproven against the known enemies. As seems to have been missed, I believe we should not trust the unproven just because of a shared enemy.

    Lastly, while you are not calling for war, other are, have, and will continue to do so. Mob mentality has overtaken Britannia and her neighbors many times before, and I do not wish to see it do so again. It is actually because of similar actions that Britannia has effectively acted as a collection of independent factions, bordering on anarchy, for the past few years.

    - Sahra Swift
    </end rp>
     
  20. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
    Governor Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    294
    Had Casca not declared himself King in such a way, perhaps then I would have willingly followed him. To demand such things as he has well...Not the wisest career move.

    Demanding taxes and furthering of war? Have we not seen enough bloodshed? Have we not had enough hardships in our world?

    Casca's time is soon approaching. If he does not cease the activities he has begun, he shall find none willing to follow him.

    Once more tonight I shall be speaking in front of the New Haven bank. Finding those who are against him, showing others the falsehood that Casca wields. If you are against oppression and tyrany, I urge you to come. Many have joined with me against Casca. Will you?

    Know that it is not a decision to make lightly. Most likely Casca will, as he has already done to me, brand you as a traitor. Bent on casting the world into Chaos. Heed him not, but turn to our one true King. Lord British who even while not here, impacts our lives.

    Long Live Freedom. Long Live the Virtues. And Long Live Lord British!
     
  21. Sahra,

    A quality debate, but let's set aside the accusations of skewing, because semantic arguments really aren't relevant to the issues we're discussing.

    My intention is to reconcile the diverse debate regarding the issues currently facing Britannia, and wider still, Sosaria as a whole. There are parties on both sides with valid arguments, and bringing them together is the mission at hand. This includes the arguments you have put forth, which are sensible and defensible.

    Humility, and the ability to consider other perspectives, is important in times such as these. We would both do best to attempt to maintain an open mind.

    If you can find a written record that states the mainland of Britannia is not ruled, in whole, by the King of Britannia, I will concede your point. If not, I believe "King of Britannia" is quite clear, and easily demonstrated by the guard outposts throughout the kingdom, well outside of city limits.

    If you feel you are separate from the king's rule, what do you have invested that substantiates your hard stance on the behavior of those who consider themselves citizens? Shouldn't it be up to them to debate and decide how to react to their new ruler? The fact you draw the line at your own town's borders, ignoring a royal union with your brothers and sisters in Britain, Cove, Yew, Minoc, Vesper, Trinsic, Skara Brae, Jhelom, Magincia, and Moonglow (I'm using your list here), makes your position tenuous in this discussion.

    The death of the original council is the only reason Casca was crowned; that was the point I was making, that their murder paved the way for his coronation. I will avoid subtlety in the future, so that my language is not a point of debate.

    Unnamed nobles who only came to power due to the assassination of their predecessors are just as questionable as the king. Without any way to substantiate that they are, in fact, nobility, or beyond that, that they exist at all, we have yet another reason to investigate Casca's ascent. If the new king can stand upon a pedestal in front of Blackthorne's castle safely, the nobles that elected him are certainly capable of revealing themselves to the people they have come to represent.

    No one missed the fact you call for caution, but are asking for union against common threats. This is a perfectly reasonable position (one of many), and it is being taken heavily into account. However, a formal investigation to substantiate the crown can be held while cooperation is shown in the defense of Britannia; they are not mutually exclusive.

    If the unproven threat is allied with a known enemy, blind cooperation while we "wait and see" has the potential to seriously damage any campaign that is waged.

    It is in Casca's interests to provide enough transparency to dispel the current political climate, so that those that doubt have no more illusions fueling their suspicions. There is a limit to what can and should be offered, but that limit is far from being reached. Your proposal is to cooperate until something goes wrong...but without any substantiation whatsoever. I could gather a comparable number of soldiers and stand in front of Castle Britain and declare myself King...does that make it so? Should you wait until I do something wrong to question it?

    To paraphrase Sherry the Mouse, what qualifies Casca to be king? Why should he be trusted without question? And what of Emissary Kasaven's warnings regarding Owain Surrey's prophecies...should they not be heeded? The words of the Robed carry great weight in these realms, as a very capable and well-educated reporter surely knows.

    The fact that others are calling for war is what I am attempting to address. There is no need for bloodshed, but to avoid it, no one side can claim authority here. There must be compromise, not self-righteousness.

    You make a statement at the end, claiming "mob mentality" caused the state of anarchy in Britannia. I would argue that the lack of decisive and effective leadership, due to an absentee government, has led to the disunion. Without a bridge between the various sides, and a willingness to find compromise, the self-segregation will most likely not reverse itself.

    -Solomon Wright, Sosarian Monk