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A Census of New Magincia

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tina Small, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    It's been just over a year since the lottery to win plots in New Magincia ended. I thought it would be interesting to see how things look now, a whole year later. So I ran around today and took a quick census in Magincia Trammel on every shard and Magincia Felucca on Siege to determine how many lots were occupied by shops with stocked vendors; how many non-shop houses were public, private, or bare plots with no walls; and how many lots were completely vacant. I also checked all the bazaar stalls to see how many were occupied and how many occupied stalls were actually selling or buying stuff.

    I stuck the results in a Google spreadsheet that you can find here: Welcome to Google Docs .

    There's a slider bar on the right side so you can scroll up or down. Pasted at the bottom of the spreadsheet is a copy of nice map from the UOGuide.com website that identifies each lot by its number. The second sheet of the spreadsheet gives the color coding for the 1st sheet (i.e., green for shop with vendors, yellow for public house, orange for private house, red for bare plot, gray for empty lot). Please note that I was very generous when determining what a stocked vendor was. If there was something for sale on the vendor, even if it was just shop runes, an old pair of shoes, or a pile of apples, I counted the vendor as a "stocked vendor." I did not count vendors that had completely empty packs, or packs that were filled with empty containers or books that were not for sale.
     
  2. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    All I know is that if this stuff maps to overall player activity then this really is a Japanese game now.
     
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  3. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I won't argue with you on that one.
     
  4. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Strictly my opinion...

    Been very disappointed in magincia. We were told we would be involved rebuilding it. Nobody I talk to envisioned nor asked for what we got. What most of us wanted was an ingame search engine, like everybody but Mythic can create...What we got was another unGodly eyesore, we thought Luna was bad, they outdid themselves this time. Mag is no longer a city, nor a beautiful island, its just a residential subdivision with unused (for the most part) garage sales...

    If our people played UO for what it is, and should be, and was, and not to try to make it like all those other games...the search engine woulda been the obvious thing to do. Part of the panache? (sp) joy, pleasure, interest of UO was shoppping those out of the way shops, finding a pretty spot you'd never seen before while hunting a vendor. *shakes head* We are slowly but surelly losing all our identity...The game that created the genre, the groundbreaker, is being ruined by trying to turn it into what the followers ended up being.

    Still opinion, and not attacks, but I believe there have been 5 great tragedies in UO, and have quite a few peeps that agree with me. In no particular order, those tragedies are: Anthony Castoro, Luna, AoS, Calvin Crowner, and last but not least, the watered down versioin of the KR client that we were finally served.

    So yeah, Mag is dead, its gonna be dead. Cause it is NOT what we asked for, nor wyhat we expected.
     
  5. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    New Magincia is intended as a player driven town and I think it has the potential to be the heart of any shard's community as Britain once was. Adventurers can sell the resources they've gathered from the dungeons, fisherman can use the docks to fish deep water fish (or even for lobster fishing), players can buy themselves a useful mount or tamers can buy or sell powerful pets. The land on the island can be used by gardeners and I should also mention that the inn and the fishermens' guild are very nicely decorated.

    However, there are also some disadvantages, like the moongate and the bank are too far from the town center, there are no basic shops or local anvils (or forges, soulforges, looms etc.) for crafters to use, the town doesn't even have a simple townhall.

    Since this is supposed to be a new town that is being built from scratch, why don't the Provisional Council hire the most brilliant architecture of Britannia to design a city square with conveniently located public spaces (gardens), shops and local buildings?
     
  6. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    New Magincia is the eyesore lovechild of a stripmall and a trailer park. "Humility" is nowhere to be found.

    We were told so many things about how exciting the rebuilding would be, but it was a pathetic tissue paper of lies. Epic Fail.
     
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  7. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    It was an attempt to sell halfhearted horrible boosters, nothing more. They missed a real opportunity. They could have made an actual auction house type deal LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME OUT THERE HAS.
     
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  8. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    I pretty much predicted this when they showed us on TC what the new mag was gonna be. I NEVER go there to shop for anything and it might as well not exist. I laugh at people who spent all that money on tickets thinking it was going to be as good or better than Luna. Epic fail - as always.

    Our poor game is in the hands of interns.
     
  9. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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  10. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    It's a nice place to sell junk if you can find someone offering an okay price.
     
  11. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Was fun lottery..but it was never going to be luna 2 was it...and with 10k accounts buying tickets we ''ALL'' kinda got a feel that if at least 1/3 of players took part then uo as still got a 30k player base.....not bad for a 15 year olde game methinks.....and hopefully another 5 years to come still....
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I have one tiny corner of Magincia, Trammel, Europa where I have a pet stall - not for tamers, but for all other classes. I sell all non-tamer mounts that can't be bought from an npc stable master. I *think* I'm using the place as intended. Of course, not being a mind reader, that's only my opinion.
    I have, on occasion, sold surplus imbuing ingredients to another stall nearby.

    I did try having a commodity stall on Siege - I found it was costing me a small fortune to sell nothing at all, so I gave up on that. I think there could be grounds for asking if the fees charged on those could be re-examined.
     
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  13. This is the biggest problem with new Magincia - it's not as cost effective as having your own house vendor, or <shudder> renting a vendor space in Luna. Trying to make this area a gold sink after 15 years of game time was a bad idea. If vendor fees were half normal, then it might work and people would come back.

    Honestly, I think it's too late for Magincia to recover because it seems that this isn't a priority for the Developers.
     
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  14. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I do still like it but mostly as a fishing village.

    I do wish however that instead of so many stalls that players basically do not use, that the dev. team could have used some of those stall areas around the large square area, for those some tiny npc stalls, ones with loom, spinning wheel anvil forge etc. The island IS missing npc shops, but since 'in theory' it's an island being *rebuilt* the dev. team coulda used a few of those stall areas for reg. npcs and some carpets even on the lawns or floor tiles to add npcs and *mini* npc shops as workin out of some of those stalls. Or they could have added a few npc shops by the bank area or dock inn area to the south and south east of island, even if only small versions of npc shops.

    I personally never expected, nor wanted it to be some new Luna. I expected it to be an island being rebuilt, and or more like a fishing boating island, just that it could use, more functionality like more npcs.

    But what also got lost or destroyed in the rebuild, is its history.
    Once upon a time there also was a CoM faction base on one side of the Magincia's.
    I do not feel it should have been moved to Moonglow.
    Even if only partially left, CoM base should have remained on Magincia, fel side at least.
    I once belonged to CoM when factions were brand new, can still remember how difficult it once was to defend the *airy* most faction base in the wide open arched sorta bank area full of Sigils. :)
    Sure later on the dev. team redid Magincia CoM base to make it a bit more protected, but point is it too was part of the 'newer history' of Magincia, and moving CoM to Moonglow
    made no sense at all, and it still doesn't make any sense at all for CoM base to be on Moonglow.

    I do not mind New Magincia being not much more, than a fishing, plant growers sort of island village, and the new stalls, which are barely, used,
    do provide a way for some newer players to find common pets,
    to buy if not outragiously priced, like blue beetles.

    But now that it is a yr. later, a bit more *rebuilding* could take place, [without forcing another fee booster on us, just a patch of something more useful added], like adding some of those stalls around the large main town island square area, as npc mini shop-stalls, complete with whichever addons may fit said npcs, or minishops which the dev. team could add somewhere along the middle sections of sorta new paid for it, kinda, nothing-ness.

    I will continue to like it though, as a *fishing village* and I do not mind that, that may be all it ever will *become* just kinda hoped for a bit more for it as a rebuilt *city* more than, empty stalls customers hardly bother using when we all can vendor from our own homes, wherever they may be. :)
     
  15. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Maybe we're using them wrong? Maybe we should use the commodity vendors for buying rather than selling?
     
  16. Mirt

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    New Magincia is what we make it to be. I think thats why folks are so mad at it its not what they want it to be but what everyone that lives there makes it. You want a public forge. Build a house with one. Town hall, build one. A wonderful tavern with bar fights and tons of drunken nudity? Come to the Sea Witch on Baja on a friday tavern night. We need to remember that just becuase we think it should be one way doesn't mean anyone else likes that idea. While I do agree that the layout could have been a lot better it has so much potential it just probably came a bit to late. Many player towns have already been established and why pack up stakes and fight to get into New Magincia? That being said I would like to see a bit more of a hybrid solution where the non vendor houses in all the towns eventually come up and can be customized by players making the towns a place to live and not just a place to get loyality for banners. Will that mean some of the houses are ugly? Oh yes. Oh dear lord by all the virtues yes. But thats like life sometimes you live next to the best house. Other times your neighboor is a moron that has a house painted dayglow orange. Thats the fun of playing in a sandbox. For folks wanting to see what it can be I have to recomend Trammel New Magincia on Baja. It looks pretty good for the most part and has things going on in it. Then the trick is trying to get that done on each shard.
     
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  17. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    The problem I have seen is that a lot of the vendors seem to be "buying" for a very very low price - and also "selling" for a very very high price. I'd understand a little profit for service - but the ones I have looked at are gouging the market. Maybe that's needed for the stall fees - but either way - I can usually sell for more elsewhere - and buy for less elsewhere.
     
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    True. I sold essence of order to the stall buying at 50k per - I totally ignored the one offering 3gp per :D
     
  19. Symma

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    Ooo suprising see how well Siege did on the spreadsheet hehe
     
  20. Very interesting...

    while not scientific at all, this should give a relative estimate of populations sizes by Trammel vs Felucca, and shard by shard. Trammel had a 4:1 lottery sales over Felucca.
     
  21. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Yeah, it was nice to see how well Siege and Mugen came out. Both places looked alive and well compared to almost every other shard--fully stocked vendors with a wide range of goods for sale. I only saw shops with that wide variety of stock on maybe 3 or 4 other shards.

    It was very, very depressing to see that fully a third of UO's shards have empty lots in Magincia. (One shard that had no empty lots yesterday had a visibly uncamped IDOC that might be an empty lot by today, which would push the total of shards with empty Magincia lots to 9 out of 27.) It was also very depressing to see the many, many houses that were set up as shops with wide open areas or steps but that were devoid of vendor NPCs; the many vendor NPCs selling nothing but a shop rune or two, or a few pairs of dusty old shoes for 5 gp each; the many shops with vendor NPCs that had nothing to sell; the many house foundations with no walls that were set to public and all you saw inside was a pile of boxes; or the beautifully built multi-story house I saw on one shard that I ran inside to get a better look and found that it had not even one stick of furniture or a container anywhere in the house.

    More discouraging than all of that, though, was the almost complete lack of player characters running around. I counted fewer than 10 among all 27 shards, and not a single one said hello or wandered after me to see what I was up to, even when I was on a poorly dressed character that could have been a new or returning player. Only two shards had red raiders, so I'm pretty sure that wasn't what was causing the quiet. Drachenfels had probably the liveliest of Magincias, someone escorting rioters, cleaning up litter and putting out fires, and another person doing some smithing in his winery. Overall, though, it was like running through ghost towns. No one home.

    Very sad.
     
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  22. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Each account holder could only buy a single ticket for each one of the 12 northern plots. So if we divide the total number of tickets sold for the northern plots with 12 for each shard, we can find the (least) number of accounts that participated in the lottery for each shard:

    Atlantic:1152, Yamato:883, Asuka:770, Great Lakes:632, Sakura:624, Hokuto:569, Lake Superior:445, Pacific:416, Wakoku:415, Mizuho:400, Chesapeake:365, Izumo:358, Catskills:318, Europa:302, Sonoma:212, Napa Valley:168, Legends:161, Baja:150, Mugen:146, Drachenfels:129, Origin:129, Lake Austin:103, Siege Perilous:100, Oceania:91, Formosa:57, Balhae:48 and Arirang:23.

    There are six Japanese shards on the top 10 shards according to participation out of eight active Japanese shards in total. So I guess it is safe to assume that the lottery was more popular amongst the Japanese shards.
     
  23. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the numbers...Other than the strength of the Asian shards. Other than that, these numbers are fairly useless, look at Atlantic's outrageous numbers. That's no sign of population but rather a sign of greed, as I know a few peeps that bid on lots there, just because they knew, if they won em, they could sell em for a fortune, just because Atl needs housing. I seriously doubt that anyone had that idea and came to Legends or Lake Austin...
    And it's quite possible the same cross shard bidding happened with the Japanese shards.
     
  24. That's like saying marketing (and sociology in general) is useless, which is based on numbers just like these. While individuals do act differently, groups tend to behave in similar fashion. The real question; are we correctly interpreting the data?
     
  25. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Mainly this:

    I didn't say anything about the population.
     
  26. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I stand corrected. What I wrote, on second read, did sound somewhat harsh...not what I intended.
     
  27. Adrianas

    Adrianas Sage
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    Yeah, that is strictly because of the stall price. I tried running a stall once. Basically, the way the system is set up, they get you both coming and going, which makes it impossible to sell at a reasonable price. In fact, if you're not careful with how you set the stall up, you'll lose your shirt! If someone comes along and actually sells the vendor an unlimited number of, say, valorite ingots - it pulls the gold straight out of your bank! So, as far as I can see, the stall system is terribly broken, at least on Siege. I *do* wonder how they are running stalls over on the Japanese shards. Have they figured out something that we haven't? Actually, as I think about it, I wonder if you could set a stall up to not buy from sellers, but only to sell the stuff you stock. But even then, the price it charges to hold the stock is too high, if I recall.

    And it's a shame, because on Siege we would love to be able to set up stalls that would buy basic commodities from new players to give them a way to earn some gold as they train up their skills. But we couldn't figure out a way to make it work. Shouting out in general chat that you have basics to sell still seems to be our only option.
     
  28. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I had high hopes for Magincia. I was offered a home on the island, but I have zero desire. The commodity vendors are disappointing and they make the whole island look like a ghetto strip mall. I would have much rather have seen the number of stalls spread out throughout all the cities with not so many in one particular city and NOT have had it attached to a booster pack. If they wanted to give players the ability to make a player town, they should have taken more time and effort in the aesthetics of the island. I hate that the tree/plants are not the type that should be found together in my opinion... looks like someone sneezed plants and trees onto the island... pin the tree on the island.. bleh.
     
  29. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    There was a stall (may or may not be still there) in Fel Atlantic that was buying almost every kind of spell scroll for 10gp and selling them for 999gp. Lolwut?
     
  30. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    As having some small homes on a few obscure shards I have found the mag stalls a god send for 3 reasons.
    1. pets - blue beatles the most...
    2. G dragons - when the time zone is up ..im asleep and vice versa sooooo being able to get a work pet without disturbing the natives is great...also nice to have a choice in the pet.
    3. the buying vendors. You have to admit mongbat killing with a novice is not anyones idea of fun! sooooo while your busy skill gaining its nice to find a vendor who will buy up and help you out with a bit of spare gold you really do need. This counts even on Siege!
    I own 1 mag home my son bought on Atlantic for his vendor place there. Its nice but to be honest I am disapointed with the way we got things done here.
    I assumed when the Dev said we would be rebuilding MAg that WE WOULD BE BUILDING~ ie: mr jones needs 200 hammers 40k oak lumber 60k dull ingots and so on and you would see scaffolding go up as you donated items to the new buildings..... community donations and the like. Dont get me wrong the stalls are nice but way too many of them.
    Assis's idea would have been nicer, a few stalls here and there between the new shops would have been great. But we got no new town....I cant blame jeff for this as it was done way before he was brought in. But he most certainly can fix it. My best word to him is Listen to your paying public, they just might surprise you with a better solution to many uo debacles.
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    If the stalls can be used by red characters, maybe it was a way for rich red characters to buy things like teleport scrolls?