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A couple idea's to help fight unattended scripting.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Malimus, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    #1. Put a limit on the amount of special resources a account can farm per 24 hours. (example) Wood and Ore/gems. Make iron, dull copper, and copper available 24/7 like normal. Same with regular wood, oak, and possibly ash.

    As for the rest of the colors like shadow ore and up, yew wood and up, and the gems you can mine, Make all these count in one number and cap it. Once you have mined/logged up a total of lets just say 2500 of the more speacial resources then you have farmed all you can farm for the 24 hour period and must wait till the next day until you can gather these again. (Or put a cap on each of the more desired resources individually)

    The idea is to make the cap pretty close to what your average ATTENDED player will gather in a day. I don't know about you but i cant mine/log for much more than maybe 1-2 hours in a day without getting extremely bored. I know there are also those who do farm attended without the aid of scripts for long periods of time but we would have to find a happy medium while at the same time kickin the 24/7 script farmers where it counts.

    Skill gain wont be affected as there will still be resources to farm for gains. Only the resources will be the lower end and in least demand.

    I think this would hurt the un-attended scripters farming to sell gold/resources for cheap in game and cash out of game while not really hurting your average player.

    It could also possibly see the come back of the original resource spawn system. Static veins that don't change location. Because all the marked locations could only be gathered out by someone until they hit the cap and then its the next guys turn. Chances for everyone increase.

    Idea # 2

    Heartwood quests.

    Keep Oak/Ash runic saw's and fletchers tool's as they are with the current quests but maybe make the loot in the bag a little better as well as the chance to get Oak/Ash. This way these quests still have purpose i.e Recipe's, chance at loot/talisman, and a chance at Oak/Ash runic's.

    As for the Yew/Heartwood runic's. Make a couple new quest's that require you to fill a Exceptional Large Bulk Order. (Example) For the heartwood runic fletcher's tool you must fill a L-bod for 25 of each 4-5 random bow's.

    Bulk Order For Bow's
    25 Bow
    25 Composite Bow
    25 Elven Composite Bow
    25 Heavy Crossbow
    All item's must be exceptional
    All item's must be made from Heartwood (Or Yew for the yew kit)

    This could also just be a list of toggle quest items instead of a bod. (Example) Quest giver want's you to bring him 10 pieces of Brilliant Amber, 2 small pieces of blackrock, a oak fletcher's kit and 50 heartwood boards.

    Guaranteed to get the high end runic

    But here's the catch. Make it so an ACCOUNT can only do the quest maybe once every 2 weeks?. Do the same for the Runic saws as well.

    This makes it so basically anyone who GM's fletching/carpentry through the lower end heartwood quest's or by whatever means they GM it can obtain a high end runic at least once per month. But they have to have the appropriate skill's/materials.


    Anyway these are just a couple idea's that came to mind before bed last night and i thought they would be a good way to help level the playing field a bit. As they would stop script farmer's from farming the really expensive stuff 24/7 and make the multiple accounts they are running much less profitable.

    Tell me what you all think. Please keep in mind these are only rough idea's and try to keep this thread constructive :D
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I don't agree on capping resource gathering. Yeah it might help the unattended scripting, but there are still a lot of others who gather resources the honest way. Capping works but isn't the right approach.

    New quests for Heartwood though instead of the same repetitive one? Sounds good! Only once every two weeks? No. Guarantee a high end runic? Nah.

    Just guarantee a runic for the BODs but once a day. The high-end less common to get the low ends more common.
     
  3. aranier

    aranier Visitor
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    Attended or unattended scripting is against the rules.
     
  4. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Yeah, funny how many people forget that.
     
  5. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Sadly, a cap will do nothing to the scripters... just like resource randomization didn't do a damn thing.

    The only thing a cap does is hurt honest miners/jackers. Just like the only ones hurt by resource randomization was honest miners/jackers.
     
  6. cunolebin

    cunolebin Visitor
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    Not sure where it is now, but at one point someone from EA/Mythic complained that some of the scripters they were catching were using hacked or otherwise accounts that weren't paying the sub anyway. If ya put a limit on resources or anything then they will go after other players info that much more. They would then use the stolen accounts to log in get they amount they can do and do the quests they can do and then log off and get on another account. Seems like the hacking spiked a bit in early summer but has slowed again, put a cap on stuff and you will see hacking spike again.
     
  7. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    The point is honest miners/loggers cannot even come close to competing with the scripter. This idea hurts the scripter because your taking his farming down from 24 hours a day non-stop script mining/loggin to 2-3 hours.

    On average id say your average honest miner/logger will only farm 3-4 hours a day if that. If you go beyond that then you don't really fall into the average honest player category now do you?. Your more of a power gamer/farmer trying to compete with script farmers.

    And if this idea came to be you could most likely get rid of the random resources and bring back the old spawn system. And if the old resource system were back in place you could use up your cap on exactly what you needed cause you know where to get it. If this were the case it would help honest miner/loggers because you save the mass amounts of time it takes to find what your looking for and you even out the playing field. The script farmers however lose that 20 hours of unattended non-stop scripting that find the rare resources for them while they are at work or watching TV or sleeping and can only farm as much as anyone els per day.

    This "could" in turn start leading to the script farmer's shuttin down shop because they have to pay that much more for extra accounts and there product income is drastically reduced in the UO resources market.
     
  8. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    I'm sorry but i highly highly doubt you would see a increase in accounts being hacked just so script farmer's can use the account for a few hours before its reported hacked??? Kinda silly. And people who's accounts do get hacked are usually do to the fact they are downloading programs that say they will give them an edge in uo but really its just a Trojan or they are being sloppy with account details/email addresses/Icq.

    You make a separate E-mail for online games and use it for only that and don't let anyone know the e-mail address. Change your password every few months and don't download shady software/search for UO bugsites and that sort of thing and ill almost guarantee your account wont get hacked ever. Also don't share account's. It is usually your own fault if you get hacked weather you know it or not.
     
  9. Laina

    Laina Sage
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    I can't manage to mine for even an hour but some people find it relaxing and can mine for 2 hours, take a break and come back and mine for a couple more hours.

    Unfortunately, I don't see putting a cap on resources as deterring scripters - they will simply make another miner or lumberjacker or 2 or 3 and then just log on each one in turn. We watch the auto-loggers collect bods how many times a day? I sure they will find a way to modify it and adapt.

    wish that it were otherwise...
     
  10. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    And in all this, you have made a huge assumption that is completely false. Scripters don't have just one account or one char per account. I would assume they don't script 24/7 on all their accounts.

    You are also making assumptions as to what "average" is. When I was a miner, I was doing ingots AND granite. When I needed to fill an order, I would go on 6 hour binges of mining. I know several other "average" players who did the same thing for mining, wood, <fill in resource here>

    So again, you proposal hurts honest players whether they are casual or "power gaming" to get stuff. All your scripter has to do is take 24 hours, divide that by YOUR magic maximum an hour number, and bingo... they now know how many accounts they need to mine with all day everyday.
     
  11. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    100% incorrect.

    I can (and do) some VERY complex scripts in UOA. They are legal because I do them attended.

    Using 3rd party programs that aren't approved is against the rules. But using 3rd party programs that are approved (like UOA) while attended is completely legal.
     
  12. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I do things in binges too. I may not mine for 2 months but when I do, I do it over a whole weekend. I fill bunches of bods at a single time and slowly sell the rewards over a period of months, etc.

    I'm sure there's a better way to target scripters, but so far it seems like most scripters are smart enough to stay attended when they "play", and swap out characters etc.
     
  13. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    Dude think outside the box! Im well aware that scripters have more than one account. Capping rare resources like this would 'hopefully' make these accounts NOT WORTH paying for because they cant pull in the amount they need to make the gold they sell for real cash that they in turn use to pay for the accounts.

    You say "When you were a miner". Your making the assumption things are indeed the same as when you were a miner when in fact most legit miner/loggers like myself and apparently you as well gave up and just started buying from the scripters or other honest players willing to put that time in. Because it just became to damn tedious and monotonous to gather/search for your own just to have the vein your tapping turn into shadow or dull copper or a scripter recall in a drain it before you can.

    And as for all my assumptions. I like to think that after playing this game for roughly 12 years of my life that i might know a little about it? You know... maybe i have learned a few things and possibly played along side a few other gatherers in my day's here. Maybe this is where i base my "Assumptions"?

    You say 'Scripters don't have just one account or one char per account'

    Perhaps that's why I am mentioning a cap and that it be ACCOUNT BASED and not character based. As in as soon as you hit the cap on the ACCOUNT then your done across the board on that ACCOUNT for the day. You really think someone wants to pay the monthly fee's on a buncha mule/script-farming accounts if all they get out of the account is only a small fraction of what they once did and now it wont pay for itself?

    As for hurting your honest gatherer. How so? This could possibly be the best thing for them in the fact the cap would be based on what the average honest miner/logger is willing/does gather per day roughly. While at the same time limiting scripter to the SAME as a legit player rather than giving the scripter the advantage of gathering all day and night without sleep/food/Bio/LIFE.

    You could use a whole day to fill your cap or you could powergame to reach it sooner. If it brought back the old spawn system due to this change it would be even better for your average honest miner/logger. As it is right now i don't know how anyone can bare to mine/log without scripts and macroing.

    From what i hear lately not many people even really want to go farm resources and this is due to the changes that were implemented to cut down on the scripters in the first place which actually just made it easy for them and harder for us.

    It would take a little while to adapt to but overall it would benefit EVERYONE instead of just scripters and power gatherer's. It would hurt scripters the most imo. Not to mention with the coming release of SA script farmers are gonna be raking in a fortune if something is not done.

    As for these magic numbers i have come up with... They are just that. Magic numbers. Space fillers. Like i said these are rough idea's. This idea is manly in hopes of leveling out the playing field between script gatherer's and legit gather's as well as getting the old resource spawn system back. This idea does rely strongly on the return of the old resource spawn system
     
  14. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OK lets say we could figure out about how much a scripter could gather in say 6 hours. If that were used as a cap, then they would need 4 accounts to gather 24/7. Even when I powergamed my miner (attened) F11/F12 macros the most I could stand was 2-3 hours a day. Now I just strip mine my rune book (caves) once and call it a day, maybe 1-2 hours. This may not be a bad idea if the numbers were set to hurt the 24/7 and not the norm. player. I have 3 accounts, with a miner on 2 of them and if I wanted to I gues I could do a 3rd. But if we set a 6 hr base limit than I could never see myself even mining for 12 hrs a day anyway. Scripters would need 4 account to do what 1 is doing now and I don't see them paying for 3 more accounts to do it.

    Devs would need to run scripts themselves to come up with the numbers for a 24/7 scripter then maybe divide by 4. 6 hrs for a scripter should be a high count that the reg player might hit in say 8 hours. If you can mine for 8 hours a day you are a true powergammer. This set amount needs to be set on an amount not a time and if you hit that amount in 6 hours than you are done gathering that resource only. All ore is the same, all wood is the same, all leather is the same, all regs are the same, I think you get my thought. Once you hit your limit on one type then you can still get the others.
     
  15. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    If you want a idea of how some of these script farms works let me tell you about a few pictures i saw.

    In these pictures there is this simple desk with a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Nothing other than that on the desk. Behind this desk is a wall and on the wall are 4 or so shelves about 7-8ft in length. Now guess what is on these shelves.... That's right computer's. About 7 or so machines per shelf somehow all tied into one mouse, keyboard, and monitor. Apparently this guy ran around 28+ UO accounts on this setup all scripting resource gathering and whatever els he wanted to farm. Making an income off of the people that actually do follow the rules. He and many others actually live off UO and other Online Games. Some make a fortune.

    But this is just to give those of you that don't know an idea of how out of control scripter's are and the fact that they are taking advantage of and stepping on legit honest player's in a system that has been geared to there advantage. It's like that because of them in the first place. I think it should be stopped or if not stopped made legal for all players to do afk or not.
     
  16. Malimus

    Malimus Guest


    The number would be based on what your average attended non-scripting player gathers in a days session. Not what the scriptor can gather. And yes i stated in my first post (Maybe each resource could have its own individual cap)

    I was saying find out what the average player farms per day and go from there. Like 2-3 maybe 4 hours of resource gathering is what i would assume your average player would do per day. So you would look at how much they gathered or could gather in a 2-4 hour time frame and set caps from there.
    Limiting the scripter to what anyone els can get per day. Of course if you have a couple more accounts you will get double or triple but that's for people that can actually justify paying for more accounts due to the fact they do play a large amount of characters or they have house holding account's or whatever. The scripters however wont have much reason to pay for more accounts if they are not worth it to them. And the only reason they are worth it to them now is because the account's pay for them selves... They have unlimited resources to sell to the mass's as it is right now.
     
  17. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    That guy and picture you mention was a very long time ago when gold was in demand about what 5-8 years ago was the end of him. He had a interview i believe on it and because demand for uo went down he went on to better more profitable games.
    Anyway my average when I dedicate a day to mining is around 15-20k ore in trammel and double that in fel but because of keeping a look out for miner pks my average might drop if I get attacked.. With many breaks in between. Lumberjacking not sure haven't done that for a long while. Don't spend too much time on it maybe a few hours for lumber if I need it for some reason.
     
  18. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Even if you used the scripters numbers and gave them 1/4 of thier 24/7 amount that is still a 75% drop for them and a number high enough for any normal player to deal with. You don't think cutting into 75% of thier profit isn't going to hurt them. To get back they would need 4 accounts to get back what 1 account did. Thats a lot to pay just to script mining lets say. Thier prices would have to be so high for selling I would hope nobody would pay it and with gold at $.99 they would lose money. $40 a month vice $10 a month for the same output would not be worth it.
     
  19. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    Ok i see what your saying now... You could go with a higher cap then im thinking and still really hurt them. I agree
     
  20. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Yes, former miner because of EA's dumb random resource idea that did nothing to curb script gatherers at all. I was fortunate to have pack-ratted away a metric ton of resources so no, I don't buy any resources... so again, you are making an assumption.

    And since you are now starting the "I've been around so my opinion is more valid than anyone else", I counter with I've been playing since 98. So based upon your "I might know a little about it", I think I know a little about it too.

    I'll once again state you make a lot of assumptions about how scripters work. Do you think they are really paying for dozens of accounts a month? Really? I highly doubt it. I'd hazard a guess that most scripters have dozens of TRIAL accounts.

    As I said, you are trying to tell everyone else what YOU think is an average player is. You are trying to tell ALL players they have to act like average players. Some people REALLY like to mine... so who are you to say "I'm sorry, your game play is like a scripters so stop mining after 2 hours"?

    If we want to start the "average player" rule making, you might try some of the following:
    • Average players only play UO 2 hours a day so we are going to limit ALL players to 2 hours of play per account.
    • Average players only do 2 champs a day so we are going to limit ALL players to 2 champs a day per account.
    • Average players only do 2 peerlesses a day so we are going to limit ALL players to 2 peerlesses a day per account.
    • Average players only make 50 potions a day so we are going to limit ALL players to 50 potions a day per account.
    The above examples are as ludicrous as your limit players to what YOU feel players should do per day.

    There are other ways to curb scripters/exploiters/hackers/etc that will not interfere with players game play. Sadly EA has shown ZERO interest or competence to handle these issues... case in point is the random resource "script fix" that screwed everyone BUT the scripters.
     
  21. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    Sorry, but this idea is kinda pointless:
    if you put a limit (say, 6 hours) in place, scripters will just open three new accounts and use those - if you are making money out of gathering resources, it's gotta be more than 10 dollars a month, right? So, yeah, the scripters will earn a little less and EA will earn a little more, but from my POV nothing is gonna change (but that's because *I* get really bored when mining).

    What you need to keep in mind when "dealing with scripters" is that there is pretty much nothing a player can do that is not doable by a sufficiently advanced script. The only thing that in theory could have any effect are captcha-like tests (implemented in any way), that is tests that should check if you're human.
    But even assuming that you can devise a test so that it actually works without false negatives and false positives (and that is a big assumption), that will only work against small-scale scripting, because big money farmers have the cheapest solution at hand: using an underpaid kid to just watch the 20 UO windows in front and click the right button every once in a while. Even better, have the scripting tool make a beep (or text their phone, or send an IM) when the captcha popup - that way they can pay the kid even less.

    The only true solution for scripting would be making it so the potential money gains are less than any effort required, but that would require some huge change in the economy of UO (and by that I mean everything, from skill raising to crafting to looting), and I can't really imagine what would work.
    Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't do a thing against the other scripters, those that do not plan on making money out of it, who would still script exactly like before.
     
  22. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    caps are always a bad solution.
    some days ago i posted an idea

    let skilling/resource collecting player randomly teleported to a special npc,this npc ask a question, if the person cant answer he get another question,if both dont get answered the player get parked in jail 72h the first time

    the second time he is unattend he should get banned perma.

    pro┬┤s:
    1.eleminating many scripter is possible
    2.fair player get the feeling "THEY"(Mythic) care about the game


    (i personal always welcome a visit of a GM,got every time the feeling"hey they care about")


    also, mythic should randomly "check" player, they know the scum-webside, and they know what is possible in game and what not,so checking here and there a player and take a look what he/she do will help alot.
    we all know that 50% or more 2D user "cant live without their little cheat prog"
    so if player see that player vanished left and right,they maybe think twice about their behavior.
    in the long term it will be a win for mythic.
     
  23. aranier

    aranier Visitor
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    Zodia,
    There is a difference between macros and scripts.
     
  24. Splup

    Splup Guest

    The thing is, there's pretty much no other way to prevent scripting except to prevent usage of illegal third party programs. I mean no matter how many GM:s there would be, scripters could still run their scripts, they would just go to spots where they are really rarely seen. When they get banned they get a new acc.

    Now comes the best part, last time there was a poll about Punkbuster, if I remember correct over 50 % of voters here were against it.

    Would it hurt casual player? No

    Would it hurt scripters? For sure

    Still over 50 % against it, even thou everyone here seems to agree that something needs to be done to scripting?

    I'd go for Punkbuster... I don't wear a tinhat so I'm not afraid of EA monitoring my SUPERSECRET COMPUTER STUFF! :D
     
  25. Zodia

    Zodia Guest


    Doesn't change one word of what I said.

    I was addressing your wildly inaccurate post that said "all scripts -- attended or not -- are illegal".

    This isn't true.

    It depends on what program you are using.

    UOA is capable of some very complex scripts, all 100% legal as long as you are there.
     
  26. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Wth is attended scripting?
    Who runs a script just to stare at the screen? LOL
     
  27. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    What UOA uses are called macros, not scripts. So you can say UOA is capable of some very complex macros.
     
  28. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Please not this again.
    PunkBuster
    SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

    This is just part of their EULA

    Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, Licensee's Internet Protocol Address, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. Licensee acknowledges and agrees that if Licensee does not want Licensor to collect and process such information, Licensee should not use the PunkBuster software.

    I f you wish to read the whole thing here is the link.
    http://www.ea.com/portal/pdf/legal/EULA-Crysis-Wars.pdf

    And here is part of an interview by UOForums

    5) Does PunkBuster disallow play if a "problem program" is simply installed on the player pc, or must it be running?
    Tony Ray: By default, PunkBuster does not look at any files on the hard drive nor the registry, it only scans memory for the presence of something running with the game. So with a plain vanilla installation of PunkBuster at the server, only running programs will be detected. There are, however, optional settings and commands that allow server administrators to look for the presence of unwanted or modified files on the hard drive. It is up to the UO team whether or not to use those optional tools on the servers they provide.

    I f you wish to read the whole thing here is the link.
    http://www.uoforums.com/interview-area/19725-uoforums-interview-with-tony-ray-founder-of-punkbuster-com.html
    This means that they can go into your system and look at anything they want to and there is nothing you can do about it. So I hope you have nothing on your computer ie e-mails, letters, photos, passwords to anything, CCinfo for secure sites or anything you may think is private. It will no longer be.
     
  29. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    The GMs don't care much if ur scripting since there's no way for them to prove it but you have to be able to respond to a GM if he talks to you. If you're unable to do so then you're considered unattended and that's against TOS.
     

  30. It all boils down to cheating. Its funny when people cry about cheating when it effects their abilty to make gold in game or if it effects their game play (such as an unfair advantage. ie. pvp). I've ask some of these people if they consider using 3rd party programs to water plants, sort through boxes for items, move bods from book to book, make potions, ect, ect. The answer I get alot of times is "it doesn't hurt anyone therefore its not cheating". Theres alot of thing that people won't sit and do over and over for hours
     
  31. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    Ya know what... I don't know why i even bother posting any idea's to try and help UO gain some of it subscriber's back/FUN/help get a almost cheat free game back. There are just too many ****** bags that troll these forums and don't read the idea for what it is. They Respond like i'm actually a dev that's gonna put my un-polished idea right into place tomorrow.

    If you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread or if you disagree with something come up with a alternate idea. If all you want to post is "NO I DON'T LIKE THAT YOUR WRONG" then please STFU FO and post elsewhere. Leads me to believe half the people here support or ARE script runners.

    As for you Gellor... I at one time thought you might be a pretty chill dude. Now i cant help but to think your just a complete GOOF/****** of very low intelligence that may as well be a scripter/hack for all i know.:coco:

    As for posting on stratic's i am so done with it. I find myself at least once a week wanting to cave one of these whiny little carebear faces in. I think that a good portion the people that post here must be mentally handicapped due all the nitpicking and the Bullsh-t trolling they pull to ruin people's idea's and thought's. Honestly grab a f--king brain and a bit of fresh air it will do you good. Karma will catch up to you all some day and when it does i hope it hurts.

    To those that don't fall into this category im sorry ya had to read this and i wish you well and goodbye.
     
  32. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Malimus, your idea sucks. Most players don't want artificial limitations to UO. You're basically copying the daily-quest system from World of Warcraft (daily = a quest that can completed once a day).

    I bet the next thing you're gonna suggest is a cap on how many hours you can do resource farming a day. Oh wait, you did that already.
     
  33. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    First off, it's not really so much your idea as one that has been used (in other games) and proposed (for this one) a gazillion times. I hope you didn't think it was some kind of original brain flash.

    Secondly, if you have such a low opinion of the posters here...why did you post here to begin with? Or are you upset that everyone didn't say "hurrah! the solution to our problems! you're a hero!"

    Thirdly...are you related to Jirel of Joiry? I think she takes her ball and goes home about once a month. Maybe you guys could meet up...
     
  34. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    While I think this is completely hilarious, I also think you might have some anger issues.