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A look at imbuing...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zyon Rockler, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    It would be a nice feature to be able to remove an imbued property. It could cost the same to remove it as it does to put it on.

    Also, GM made suits that don't use artifacts, take a major dex hit. It would be nice if there were some rare ingredients that could be used to imbue strength, dex, and intel.

    It would also be nice if we could imbue robes, cloaks, sashes, and other items with a minor bump such as, 1 regeneration, 1 stat.

    I would like to be able to imbue talisman with possibly a small bump, like 5 skill, 1 or 2 stat, 1 regain and 1 other property, like hit chance, defence chance, damage increase.
     
  2. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I'd like it if the LEGENDARY BLACK SMITH could craft a exceptional weapon with out the Damage Increase modifier on it... you know since he is a LEGENDARY BLACK SMITH.

    Imbued clothing would be cool too. Maybe only have a 100 or 140 cap on the piece. Just high enough to not out do the unique clothing that's already out there.

    Tally's too!
     
  3. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I agree. Have the damage modifier go up to 65-70 at 120 smith and 100 arms lore and only have the damage modifier count if damage is imbued on the item.

    So, a lower level smith could start with a much lower damage and work up to a 120 but if he did not have 120, he would have to imbue the damage, causing the total damage modified to count against his imbue points. Is that what you meant, something like that because if so, I agree. That would really make it worth having 120 smith and 100 arms lore.

    The same thing with robes, like if they put an imbue cap of 120 and then you had a +3 physical resis, anniversary robe, that would not count towards the 120. Let's face it, those robes suck and imbuing them would make them great! They could get a 255 durability, just like the jewelry.

    This way, other unique items, such as a talisman, like a Premiere On Arms, where you could possibly add to it or modify it, having some of the properties on it not count towards the total imbue points. So, you would still have some talis, that you just can't imbue because they are over the cap but others you could add alittle more to them.

    This would be a type of gold sink. Another way to move items because these items would now have durability. So, it would help the economy. They would also need to be repaired, so it would help the community and most of all, the worthless items would become necessary to have.
     
  4. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Great ideas.:thumbsup:
     
  5. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Ya lets make it so an imbued bow can have 4 mods and be balanced....... No thanks.
     
  6. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i just wish 120 crafter with 100 lore makes pieces with higher durability and with more then 35 resists per piece.
     
  7. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    Why not fletchers have been screwed over since the ML release heartwood runics only give 4 max not 5 just as carpenters have.
     
  8. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    The main difference is with the wood enhancing. When ML came out if you enhanced post runic crafting you could still hit the 5 mod max.

    Today with imbueing you can hit SIX! No question wood is a better choice for crafting less mage armor
     
  9. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    This!:thumbsup:
     
  10. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    We talked about a way to remove one property from an item in Beta. It was just one of many things they talked about and then promptly ignored.
     
  11. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    i also feel many of the test people are the haves in the game and human nature being what it is imbuing came out way weaker than what it was proposed to be a great equalizer it's not it's turned out to be the make almost great stuff but not even close to the best stuff.

    you can burn runic to get exactly what you need, or give up and imbue something that has half of what you need.
     
  12. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    This is garbage. the whole thread is. Imbuing did what it was supposed to, imo is Too powerful. If imbuing had max 450 weight it would be more balanced with crafted items. I think any crafter would tell you that. Before imbuing, a "near perfect" 5 mod weapon or peice of armor would easily sell for 30 - 100 mil (when gold was worth alot more too) a six mod perfect piece for more.

    You can make a "perfect" piece for like 2 mil now.

    Now we cant go back and just lower imbuable weight, that would be stupid and unfair, but what can be done is give regular crafting a much needed buff, even its its just higher percentage of 6 mod items, or making 6 mod item creation simply Possible from barbed kits, heartwood kits, maybe even create a tinker runic kit.

    Also a very simple fix would be to make loot weapons imbuable to 500 weight.

    Theres tons and tons of posts about this from when artificing first came out; lots of unhappy looters and crafters, personally ive accepted the change, but to make UO more imbue dependent would be terrible for the state of the game.
     
  13. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    ROFL i'm sorry do not to be mean but i'm sorry this is the funniest post all week and the rest of your post is pure emotionalism. when you use a runic sewing kit and a 1/3rd or so of the items made have 150 or higher in intensity points than you can imbue your falling to what my post actually said
     
  14. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    you have this backwards.. you can burn runics and get the perfect item but with random intensities (might not be 100%).. or you can imbue one that has 100%.
     
  15. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Be easy just work in some use for like blackrock to remove a property. Just add in the breakage just like enhancing. Sure they would be selling a no fail tool in a short time after.
     
  16. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    On Siege and Mugen, having GM Armslore skill gives you an 8% increase in resists and 43% damage increase.

    On a plain leather piece of armor, this means resists total 38 if exceptionally crafted; 43 if made of spined leather; 49 if made of horned leather; and 50 if made of barbed leather.
     
  17. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    It sounds like there's 2 schools of thought. 1 that thinks the crafter became inferior because of imbuing and the other who looks at imbuing as part of crafting.

    I think the imbue system was much more advanced than the other systems. Such as, bow craft, smith and tailor. I think with the new power that imbuing gives, they're going to have to come up with new ways to counter act them because it affects everything in the game.

    I think there are alot of technical items, like when making spell channeling bows and the property balance. I did not expect it to be so easy but imbuing made it possible to be placed on every bow. I don't use one but when I get around to it, it sounds like a game changer.

    I would rather see them improve the crafting menus and fix up imbuing so that they work better in the way you can make the different types of suits that our characters demand without alot of money and work.

    So, in my opinion, you would have to bump everything up. It's not that I want it to be easy, just more organized. I think, I agree with everything that was posted. PoF is another issue, for me. Leather durability is to low. There just seems to be lots of things that could be improved.
     
  18. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest


    with a gold one yes but with ones above that it's like i said nearly 30-35% higher and maybe half of that is better in use
     
  19. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well in my book an Imbuer IS a crafter.
     
  20. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I agree Lady Storm, imbuing is an extension of all the crafts. If you have any one of the crafts, you should have imbuing.

    Another thing, I really don't like about the imbue system, is the fact that our name does not go on the items. Why should I spend hours and hours fixing loot, just to have someone buy it off my vendor and resell it for 5x the price and get all the credit.

    I think if there is no name on the item and the imbuer has 100 to 120 skill, their name should be stamped on the piece that they are imbuing.

    If there is a name already on the piece then no one should be able to take it off or change it.

    I have to agree that the loot having less intensity is kind of strange. Does anyone know why they did this exactly? You would think it would of been better to increase loot intensity, making it harder to imbue rather than making the imbuer limited.

    So, like if you put loot pieces that had faster cast 2 and 7 tiers, you would not be able to imbue those pieces, that would cause the loot to compete with imbuing rather than one being better than the other.
     
  21. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    Heres my "look" at imbuing.

    I shouldn't have to try and kill monsters on my crafter so that i can craft the high end items.

    The loyalty rating thing is ********. Please change it.
    Thanks
     
  22. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I guess im in the "first" school of thought... The pure "crafter" is not really inferior, but instead dependent of the artificer. Ill burn a val hammer or 2 for the hell of it, but the majority of the time spent on my crafters are to make base pieces for my artificer.

    I do enjoy imbuing, and like the fact that crafters are still needed to make properties not obtainable from the imbuing gump. Maybe a few more could be added? Like 3 mana regen in addition to the higher craftable resists, or (please) No damage increase, in addition to elemental damage, the special recipe weapon properties and the like.

    Traditional crafters need some kind of buff tho. It feels like my old crafters now are servants of the great and mighty Artificer, appeasing his imbuing needs with lowly pieces of leather and wood.

    I don't see my artificer as a real crafter becuase he doesnt actually craft anything, he makes already crafted things "better." Yes, if an actual sword or helmet appeared from the pile of gems and relics then id be more likely to call him a crafter.

    Skillwise, imbuing seems most like inscription, both hybrid skills that cross into combat as well.
     
  23. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Smoot-I agree with you but it's really hard to figure out a solution to bring them both closer together. I think runics is where you see the barrier, mostly because it almost seperates them completely, where they are really not usable with imbuing.

    Part of my problem is, I haven't been down the same path as you using runics besides barbed leather kits and shadow hammers for slayer properties on weapons, in that way they seem to work.

    My path started like that and I've moved into building a legendary suit. The first problem for me, is, durability. So, I began to use shadow armour. Shadow allows for high durability, so I don't need PoF. Then, the next problem was trying to create a lower regeant suit. Leather durability was to low and the shadow armour mage took up way to many properties to make a good mage suit.

    So, you end up needing PoF, which I can't afford nor do I want to buy something that is so highly priced because that forces the price higher and creates a demand.

    So, I ended up making a suit for a Sampire, where I did not need the PoF, I did not need to use any other pieces but the intended pieces, plate helm, plate gorget and I was able to add enough fire resistance, enough mana. The only thing the suit lacked was, dexterity and the ability to cap the strength.

    So, what i'm trying to say is, If I changed pieces out for an artifact, like jackal's collar, then I could reach the dexterity. To me, this is wrong or a problem with the crafting system because i'm not able to finish crafting the suit. Even with this dexterity hit though, the template is good enough.

    But, that's only 1 suit or type of suit that I can craft. So, basically all you need is some boura pelts and gems.

    But as soon as you get into a mage armour or a medable suit or a lower regeant cost suit, it completely becomes worthless to craft because now you need PoF and if you make a mistake you can't change it.

    So, now it's probably better to use artifacts or runic made gear for this type of character, mage.

    So, everything seems great, to that point and I think one of the reasons is, because you can reach that 150 durability and it really becomes confusing, in my opinion, how we are supposed to use all of these different aspects.

    It becomes very easy to craft a suit and weapons and still reach that 500 intensity without needing any ingredients, unless you feel it necessary, like using boura pelts to get all 70s or more.

    So, for me, a better menu and possibly a set bonus would complete my non-med suit and the luck suit was alot of fun but again only if it's non-medable. I can't imagine making a piece out of leather, adding 300k of PoF and then trying to enhance it and losing the piece 50 times but if the leather had a 150 durability, then you would end up with a useable piece and not lose so much.

    So, i'm just saying, imagine if the menu actually guided the player and you could create a Sampire Suit or non med gold suit and possibly as a complete set could receive some type of bonus.
     
  24. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Right on.

    While you are at it I think that you should be able to imbue a fish steak so that after you eat it you are 400 dex/400 int/400 str.

    You should also be able to imbue your character's hair with 70 dci/45 hci/100 sdi.

    But only if your cook/blacksmith is Legendary because being Legendary should grant you divine powers since it takes at least 4 days to obtain Legendary status.
     
  25. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Goldberg-That's true. That's why the devs are supposed to set hard caps.

    For example: I remember them saying, 45 defense chance increase was the cap but they allow it to go up to 75. This is something you have to take up with the devs. You have to explain to them, that it's wrong to set a cap at 45 and then allow someone to stack another 45. So, that if their defense is lower it stays the same.

    What should happen is, you get a cap of 45 and that's it. You see, that makes it simple.

    Imagine when they add more races. Like an orc might be able to have 95% physical resis. This number is set by the devs. No matter what a player does or has on their suit, and they have created this. So, it's not the player's divine powers. It's the player working within the powers that be.

    That's why they need to look at different things that affect imbuing. I forgot to mention, that with the sampire suits, you can reach the cap with potions. So, like I said, That is a good suit.

    But as far as weapon modes and resistances, you have to look at different things that don't exist yet or things that do exist being used more.

    Like, take hit life leech, for example. Say, you can imbue 90%. So, now you create a spawn or a reverse property that will remove that 90%, causing balance.

    For example: Some type of spawn might touch you and suck 50 life every time it touches you but you're hitting and getting life at the same time but this other property is causing a balance between the two. So, it's wrong to think that the weapon is overpowered because then you're limiting the type of opponent you can have or the type of tactical confrontation two players could have.

    So, what i'm saying is, we don't have to remove things or nerf things but we do need to come up with ways to make it interesting. Like, being able to disable armour pieces or creating new properties that can be imbued that counter-act the properties.

    Even putting 100 durability on leather, alone, would open up the ability to create some ok mage suits. Same thing with a mage hat. When you make these things, they come out with 20 durability.
     
  26. Agreed :thumbsup:
     
  27. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    LOL

    Mage Wep

    SC
    No Pen (fc1)
    15-21 DCI
    50 HFB or HL
    25 DI

    And you can chug...not to mention it gives you 100 extra points, so please stfu about balanced bows, crazy kids!
     
  28. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    youre doing it wrong. its very easy to make a 6 piece mage suit that you only have to imbue up ONE resist and leaves you 4 properties left.
    first you make pieces out of leather with 1 resist that is absolute base and 1 reist that is low.. it takes awhile
    say 2 phy and 4 fire and the rest of the 35 spread out. so like.
    2,4,10,10,9
    then you enhance that with barbed. you will get
    4,5,12,13,13

    once you get the 6 pieces all set up.
    you add pof, 2 bottles per piece.

    then you imbue up phy on 3 and fire on 3 and you should get all 70s, or very close to it. you can imbue phy on 4 pieces for protection spell, leaving that piece with only 3 other properties.
    very easy for a mage suit.
    put on mr2, lmc7, mana 7 and lrc 17 and you have a bad ass mage suit.

    it gets a tad less complicated if you want to use an artifact.. i suggest the folded steel glasses..
    you will have to max out the lrc and and lmc and lower the mana to 6 i think.
     
  29. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Yeah, I know I could make an awesome mage suit and you're right but what would the cost be for 6 of those suits or 20 of those suits?

    See, you have to remember that I play the game with my family. So, that's 4 of us that I have to make suits for. Then, you have to remember that i'm the Guildmaster and I have to make suits for a bunch of newbies and outfit other people that are in the guild.

    So, I don't want to buy the PoF or use artifacts. Now, if I made the pieces the way they are now, without PoF, the durability would be to low and the suits would need to be repaired to frequently.

    Now, if I had to make one suit and that was it, well then I wouldn't have to imbue anything because then I would go full out arty and barbed kit.

    See, that's where imbuing could really help the game, by being able to make a suit in a few hours and get a guy out there on the field. Instead, the way the game is now, people don't get their armour right, people don't get their templates right, they don't have a clue.

    So, even by being able to create these suits and put them on a vendor, you could be helping your fellow player to have a better experience in the game but the suit that you're talking about, with PoF and arties, puts the cost way over the head of most players, especially those, that don't have good suits because they are hunting ettins or orcs.
     
  30. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i dont think you have the big picture..

    before when i wanted to make a mage suit or any other suit for that matter i had to do this..

    first start off with about 20 barbed and 30 horned runic kits.
    then start making pieces out of barbed leather.
    keeping all the ones that had say lrc, lmc and something else USEFUL

    take those pieces and try really hard to fit them all together so you had 100 lrc, 40 lmc, and maybe i get lucky and 8 mana regen.

    this suit tho would have been nowhere close to all 70s.

    so now days with a few bottles of pof cost, witch by the way is a lot cheaper then 50 runic kits were, you can make a suit all 70s, 100 lrc, 40 lmc and 12 or so mana regen.
     
  31. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    If you really believe what you're saying then the answer to this question should be yes. Are you willing to suit every mage in the game that needs a suit? Think about it, just last week 2 people asked. The week before that, it was 3. I told them no but you're saying, that you would have said yes to them. The 1 wanted a taming suit and he needed to have his ring and bracelet set for taming.

    These are all variations of mage suits. Now, if I would of been able to get 100 durability, without PoF, I would help a stranger. I would be willing to invest my time and make them a suit.

    But you're saying that it's so easy, the way that it is now, that I don't have to worry about it because you'll take care of it. You're saying that you'll stand in Brit and help all the new people or you'll hear in Chat someone needs a new suit, a mage suit, and you'll just run real quick and get your smith character on.

    Not me. What i'll tell them is, that it is way to complicated to craft a GM made suit that will be worth you wearing, for a mage character. It cost way to much money and I have no reason at all to invest into you.

    Now, if you were a Sampire, then I could bang out a suit for you. If you were a swordsman, an archer, then it's no problem.

    Another thing that's interesting, is that we are talking about a useable suit, with 100-150 durability but you feel that it is positively necessary to force people to either buy PoF or do BoDs.

    Think about that for a second. The cap on durability is 255. So, you could always bump it up to 255 but you're saying that it is better to make sure that every suit made, that's a mage suit, has to have a 1 million value, at least. I don't understand that. These suits will wear out quicker, they will need to be repaired more. You don't think that's enough to put a person through.

    Plus, the time that it takes to make the suit. What if you have 5 people that need theses suits. Do you realize that's up to 2 hours of someone's time.

    Why don't the GMs get out and start helping people? Why is it up to me? They designed the system. I wonder what it's like for people just starting out in UO or returning. What do you expect from them? To make a crafter or spend X amount of millions in gold. They're already paying to play the game.

    And the ones that can't afford it, die and don't have a good time. I got to tell you, I'm getting to the point where I really don't care.

    And then you have to think about all the other things that can be done. We're talking about, imbuing as a starter suit. These suits don't have the pendant of the magi, the orny, the crystaline ring, armour of fortune, barbed made pieces with nothing lower than 20.

    And this whole picture thing, I don't understand. When I started playing the game, a smith could bang out a set for you. I remember in Yew, this guy would stand there, in the Abbey, in a Black GM Shadow Suit and I didn't care about anything else but being able to make that suit.

    And then AoS brought in the resist properties. So, finally imbue comes along to fix it and people want to stick their foot in the door and say, Hey, it's good the way it is but not 1 of these people are doing what needs to be done and that's get these new people suited and involved in the game.
     
  32. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Zyon, i dont think anyone is going to argue that imbuing has made it harder to make suites... because, well, it just hasnt.

    I do understand your frustration with durability tho. You might have overlooked one option tho. You can imbue Durability. If your making a "beginner" suit, the four mods is more than enough. You probably wont be making the mods max intensity, so there will be room for the durability weight.

    For mage suits, you really dont even need pof, Especially if the suit is not max intensity and can be remade easily. Ive played one character for over a year a decent amount, and am still wearing his un-pofed mage suit.

    If your giving out suits to family or guildmates, take them to hunt with you and gather the resources for their suits. Part of this Is the pof. Yes it might take 1-2 mil to fully pof a suit, but that should only take a couple hours to make. It should be well worth it to them for a suit that will last for years.
     
  33. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Smoot-That is awesome advice. I have not tested the durability because like I said, I think the base durability on leather is to low and especially on cloth. On average, we use up to 70 durability. Today on my fighter, I used over 100. It was about 4 1/2 hours, just Miasma and me and a couple of people came in to say hello.

    So, that would mean, I would have to repair twice if I was a wrestling mage at 50 durability. So, I would have to test a suit first, to see how long it would last. I think on average, a piece needs to be at least 70 to make it through a day hunting.

    And i'm not arguing that imbuing has made it harder. I mean, looking at this from a perspective, that the suit is for you, that's one thing.

    See, what brings people to UO, alot of what did bring people, was the fact that people were able to reach out to them. Before Trammel, when people would die, you could guard their bones and when they came back, you could have their stuff in a bag.

    You could also make them a suit without having to have millions of gold or any gold at all. This is the whole point of the durability issue, in my opinion.

    You see, back then someone would join the game and say, I need a suit and the only thing required of you, was that you had a smith character, with skill and some ignots or leather. Now, if the person was antisocial or nervous because they never played an online game, they could always go to an NPC.

    So, what I think happens, when you add cost, is that the new players will come in and ask for a suit but no one is going to be willing to spend the money that it costs. It's pretty much, that simple. So, now the community, rather than accepting people, is going to doubt that these people are even legitimate. It could be a new player but it could also be a vet who is trying to get around the cost of PoF. So, in this way, the system will hurt the game.

    If it were me who was a dev or I could design the system, I would cause pieces to break, Boom, Gone. Durability wouldn't have anything to do with it. There would just be a chance of losing your armour or your weapon.

    Then, I would have it go into the pack, broken and have a chance for repair, similar to enhance. If it was failed to be repaired, it would disappear.

    Also, as a piece got lower, like around 20/20, you would have a higher chance of the piece breaking.

    You see, durability should be a luxury, not a necessity and in my opinion, the raw material, comes out to low.

    But there are alot of other things we could talk about, with imbuing, besides durability. It just seems to be side tracked but I think that was excellent advice and maybe someone who has tested it could let us know how much it really helped because I don't know.

    Just to make sure it's clear, we're talking about imbued pieces.
     
  34. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I don't see an option in the imbue gump to add durability on leather armour.
     
  35. As far as I know you don't imbue durability but you use pof before imbuieing. There are also various enhancement types that allow to increase durability for free. (Like dull copper, but you need to do it after hand because it adds a property at the same time).

    I 100% agree with your original post (allow us to remove properties).
     
  36. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I can agree with most all of this....

    I want to remove stuff...

    Course I'd also like to "alter" items in such a way that I could turn a Deer Mask into a bandanna or any other thing for that slot that's got the same "base" property. Couldn't turn it into a close helm but.... could make it a floppy hat, bonnet, cap, or anything along those lines...

    And should be able to alter things like the crimson cincture into a woodland belt ...... and same with a tangle. Keep the properties loose the ugly graphic.
     
  37. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

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    sorry your right, just checked, looks like you cant imbue durability unless it was already a property on the item maybe? :/ Which doesnt really make sense to me, i had used powdered iron to imbue durability on some shields.