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A needed balance for the uber faction items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Fox (Europa), Oct 24, 2008.

  1. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    These items are a good idea if they attract people to factions. They have a huge downside though - they are useable in non-faction fights.

    This is going to create two classes of PvPers: There will be the best of the PvPers in factions getting a huge buff from these new items and then there will be the rest of the PvPers who aren't in a faction.

    In a fight a factioner with the items will have an advantage with no downside against a non-factioner because there is no skill-loss risk when one side isn't in a faction.

    The fix for this is for skill-loss to apply to all PvP deaths if you are in factions, regardless of whether you were killed by someone in another faction or not. This would nicely balance the risk v reward of the new items.

    Fox
     
  2. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    What is the point of fighting in Factions if you can't enjoy the benefits elsewhere? This is like saying 120 skills should be available in Felucca only and be dropped to 100 on Trammel facets.
     
  3. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    The point of fighting in factions should be fighting in factions. That's the problem. The devs aren't smart enough to come up with any way to make factions fun so they are forcing people to join factions just so they can compete against other people that are in factions and have these new items.

    Its not the right way to fix factions at all. But that really wasn't the intent behind these changes anyway.
     
  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    It is indeed possible that Factioners will own all non-Factioners in fights.

    I do not think this is likely, however. And this is why.

    1. These items will wear out over time; no PoF-ing and repairs are limited. (This was the deciding factor in my deciding to not rejoin Factions, but rather to seek out a high-level PvM guild that doesn't mind taking on a non-Samurai dexer.)

    2. You will need to maintain your rank to use them. This either requires legitimate, active faction fighting, or some kind of clever manipulation of the system involving using your friends in opposing factions. And honestly the latter seems like almost as much work as the former. Someone who isn't into Factions may not have the tenacity to stick to it for an item that's just going to break anyway.

    3. I think you're going to need to control towns to get the new items, aren't you? That requires active participation.

    4. Finally, and most importantly....With the apparent coming of EM event "replicas" and Imbuing (not to mention Stygian Abyss artifacts) there's going to be enough other options to get good items that non-Factioners are also likely to have their pick.

    So yeah, you might be right. I don't think so though.

    We'll have to see.

    -Galen's player
     
  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I do think there should be some sort of limit on the xfer of points between characters.
    I do not think there should be a restriction on use of the items on any facet.
     
  6. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Question would I not be able to join faction artificially inflate my rank buy the arts I need and return wiith them to trammel-PVM whith my character continue to keep my rank inflated and never really need to set foot on fel or fight with factions again right?
     
  7. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    If past events have been any indication, balance will go out the window with faction items. Then, balance will go out the window again with imbuing. Then, balance will go out the window with *insert name of pirate only skill added during the Pirate:A Life of Pillaging expansion(added to make Hawk happy, heh)*. The point is that balance has never been right in UO. They should concentrate on fixing things that exist and balancing them before adding new things to the mix that will just make the balance issue worse.
     
  8. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Rank in factions is hosed up right now. Don't expect that the change anytime soon. As such, yes, people will be able to game the system in factions to get these items and use them in Trammel. That's the problem. People that game the system will, as always, have a leg up on those that don't game the system. EA encourages this continually with each thing they add to the game. BoDs? Gamed by scripters, real players suffer. Heartwood Quests? Gamed by scripters, real players suffer. Speed of movement? Gamed by speedhackers, real players suffer. Runics? Gamed by dupers, real players suffer.

    Its a common pattern that EA has no real desire to change.
     
  9. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    All i know I already posted and warn before this goes in effect that the system will be used in this matter and i will use it like this as well. If they dont want it used in this matter fix it before it goes live if they dont care then i will take it as a legitamite feature and not to complain about it after the fact.
     
  10. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I don't have a problem with factioners having some advantages over non-factioners...

    There's always the chance that the guy you're fighting has friends in factions that can come gank you while you're killing their buddy. Then you're in stat...
     
  11. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    First off why would a Faction player risk damage to his item fighting a non faction player let alone goto tram and risk wear and tear on these items? would be foolish if you asked me and not worth the trouble achieveing rank for the items just to waste them instead of using them for what they are meant for which is fighting in faction battles.

    Second non faction players shouldn't interfer with faction fights, so giving a faction player better pvp gear would hopfully change the mind of the non faction player of trying to interfere.


    At first I expect alot of people trying it out but eventually they'll come to realize it's not worth the time in using these items for anything but factions.
     
  12. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    You guys seriously overestimate the importance of gear in fights.
     
  13. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    These items are repairable, just not PoFable, right? Well, assuming they come at 255 durability like their regular counterparts, 255 durability lasts a LONG time.
     
  14. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Bottom line is that ever since factions began, faction players have been pvping against non faction players 24/7. It happens/happened all day at the gates and anywhere else in Felucca that players were pvping/pking.

    Anyone trying to claim that these ridiculous faction items will not create a huge imbalance is either a plain fool or has no idea of Uo's history.

    The only thing sillier then denying this imbalance is trying to use an items durability to slant an argument. It is ridiculous and a total insult to any experienced player.

    Peace :)
     
  15. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    QFT

    I've been saying since they made the initial announcment about these items, that these items will do absolutely nothing but create an imbalance between faction and non-faction PvPers.

    We need non-item based incentives to fight for the towns, that have no effect on the rest of the playerbase.
     
  16. Radun

    Radun Guest

    255 durability last quite a while.... and the items don't even cost very much silver in the first place.
    we're not talking about non-factioners interfering with faction fights... it's what's going to happen when the giant red raid guild on your shard who already fields 5x more players than their next most powerful adversaries (faction or not) joins a faction to use the new advantages for taking over champ spawns on a shard where there's almost no other faction activity (aside from half a dozen solo pvpers, and a couple very small faction-dedicated guilds).

    no you don't need control of towns to acquire or use the new items... it's a community collections box in the stronghold.

    You can freely use the new advantage against any/all non-factioners, and the only drawback is that you get statloss if killed by an enemy faction... do they seriously not see how this is going to force everyone into factions?


    /signed. statloss needs to be for any/all pvp deaths, if the new gear can be used in pvp against any/all opponents.
     
  17. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    LOL I guess no one has though of this?

    Faction Inquis - 4k Silver [Much better than normal Inquis]
    Normal Inquis - Roughly 20k Gold [At least on Siege]

    Way to make the original's worthless.

    Not to mention that people are already working on their rank to get these items and will barely come out of the house. I can just imagine that once they get these items, they'll be protecting their ability to wear these items, even more. So much for fighting anywhere but at the steps of a house. As if its not bad enough already.

    Please leave these items off Siege!
     
  18. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    I believe (I may be mistaken) that you have to "upgrade" the original.
     
  19. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    You are mistaken. No original is required.
     
  20. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    They ain't PoF but PoP and it's essentially the same thing, no?

    To achieve balance begins with the removal of those Faction items(Mana Pots/Bandies = Teh ROFLC0PT3R), deleting all the duped Gladie Collars etc, and re-working Imbuing because it's gonna spawn crazy Ecrus in no time.

    Or at least attacking non-Factions should equal item destruction.
     
  21. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    It will be awesome if us bluebbies can together and go red bashing..find the odd ones and drop there stats till they cry home to mommer!!
     
  22. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Anyone with high end arties should get shut of em half price and quick!!!cause prices are gonna plummet to what i see 25%
     
  23. twoflower25

    twoflower25 Guest

    I agree with the OP - this new faction items are a bit overpowered - and although they might attrack some people to join factions, they will make the strong guys and guilds that are already ruling the felucca shards even stronger.

    The game, esp pvp, has not been balanced before these changes and the new stuff will not make anything better.

    Cheaters and speedhackers will now even more rule in Felucca - nothing has been done against them.

    PVP has been heavily item and not skill dependant before - and this will become worse now with the new items available just for those guys who cheat and speedhack most.

    I started playing in Felucca half a year ago in a nice (speedhack and cheat-free, as far as i can judge) champhunting guild - and we could cope with the speedhackers simply by outnumbering and ganking them - as they are usually no good team players ..... but this will be getting harder and more frustrating, with the Devs "supporting" those Speeders and more and more normal players leaving the game

    The upcoming changes with imbueing items to strong "über-arties" will make the whole game even more item dependant - even if "über-items" might drop in price after a while and might become available for normal players as well - by that time Felucca shards may be empty already.
     
  24. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

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    I believe he meant that you should´ve written 20M instead of 20K...