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A Philosophical Discourse...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by joblackjon, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. joblackjon

    joblackjon Guest

    What was intrinsically wrong with the old skill-gain system (pre GGS)? I'm refering to the system where the tougher the opponent the greater the gains as apposed to the current system that requires the "appropriate" combatant (read skill level equivalent) for a skill gain?

    In our current sysem, learning under an expert/superior practitioner is discounted...you cannot earn skill gains. You can only gain from opponents + or - 10 points from your current skill level. Mediocrity is the rule. The teachings of a legendary, skilled role model are totally ignored.

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could take, for example, a neophyte Archer to Oger Lord Island and introduce him/her to fantastic skill gains! What a boon to the UO community! Can you see toughened oldtimers next to new recruits working training routines?

    Please make skill-gain a more pleasant experience.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As I recall, and I'm fairly certain I'm remembering it correctly, it was because of powergaming.
    The devs of old didn't like it, so they made the change.
    I never liked the change personally... I used to take my newbie fighters to fight ettins... A single fight lasting upwards of 10 minutes, but yielding really good gains for the risk involved...
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A legendary master can only enlighten a worthy student. Nobel prize winners don't generally teach kindergarten [​IMG]
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What was intrinsically wrong with the old skill-gain system (pre GGS)? I'm refering to the system where the tougher the opponent the greater the gains as apposed to the current system that requires the "appropriate" combatant (read skill level equivalent) for a skill gain?

    In our current sysem, learning under an expert/superior practitioner is discounted...you cannot earn skill gains. You can only gain from opponents + or - 10 points from your current skill level. Mediocrity is the rule. The teachings of a legendary, skilled role model are totally ignored.

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could take, for example, a neophyte Archer to Oger Lord Island and introduce him/her to fantastic skill gains! What a boon to the UO community! Can you see toughened oldtimers next to new recruits working training routines?

    Please make skill-gain a more pleasant experience.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Back then, instead of golems, everyone gathered in the rotting corpse room and GMed weapon skills in that manner. It was quite the social spot, as I recall. For other skills there was 8x8. I do like the picture you're painting and that's how things were back then as new players were introduced to that room. Skill gain is pretty easy these days, which is a boon for my friends and me. We like creating roleplaying characters with quirky templates and so it's nice to quickly get them to a level they can compete with more experienced RP characters.

    Personally, I believe that after nearly 11 years of existence, UO Players aren't looking to play the game to treadmill skill gains. Once upon a time it was satisfying to GM skills, but all the vets are past that and brand new players are few and far between. I think EA should focus on an event/story driven game. Back with the Invasion of Trinsic, I thought they were going this route. Unfortunately, they dropped the ball. They seem to be coming back to it now, however. I love taking part in events. I love seeing the community working together to heal each other and battle the challenges set before us. One of the other things I would like to see EA implement is not just item driven events, but events driven by heroism, sort of like the Book of Truth event where someone gets their name inscribed into the history of their shard. It would be cool if players who gained this notoriety would receive more recognition, like town criers and bards hailing them as they passed, speaking out about their accomplishments. That would be a nice feather in the cap, so to speak.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The Power Hour/GGS came about simply because the old method was so easy to exploit and cheat at.

    Not that this system is that much better, but there is marginally less incentive to park yourself in a corner, put a skill macro on an infinite loop and then go off on vacation.
     
  6. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    What was intrinsically wrong with the old skill-gain system (pre GGS)? I'm refering to the system where the tougher the opponent the greater the gains as apposed to the current system that requires the "appropriate" combatant (read skill level equivalent) for a skill gain?

    In our current sysem, learning under an expert/superior practitioner is discounted...you cannot earn skill gains. You can only gain from opponents + or - 10 points from your current skill level. Mediocrity is the rule. The teachings of a legendary, skilled role model are totally ignored.

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could take, for example, a neophyte Archer to Oger Lord Island and introduce him/her to fantastic skill gains! What a boon to the UO community! Can you see toughened oldtimers next to new recruits working training routines?

    Please make skill-gain a more pleasant experience.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Back then, instead of golems, everyone gathered in the rotting corpse room and GMed weapon skills in that manner. It was quite the social spot, as I recall. For other skills there was 8x8. I do like the picture you're painting and that's how things were back then as new players were introduced to that room. Skill gain is pretty easy these days, which is a boon for my friends and me. We like creating roleplaying characters with quirky templates and so it's nice to quickly get them to a level they can compete with more experienced RP characters.

    Personally, I believe that after nearly 11 years of existence, UO Players aren't looking to play the game to treadmill skill gains. Once upon a time it was satisfying to GM skills, but all the vets are past that and brand new players are few and far between. I think EA should focus on an event/story driven game. Back with the Invasion of Trinsic, I thought they were going this route. Unfortunately, they dropped the ball. They seem to be coming back to it now, however. I love taking part in events. I love seeing the community working together to heal each other and battle the challenges set before us. One of the other things I would like to see EA implement is not just item driven events, but events driven by heroism, sort of like the Book of Truth event where someone gets their name inscribed into the history of their shard. It would be cool if players who gained this notoriety would receive more recognition, like town criers and bards hailing them as they passed, speaking out about their accomplishments. That would be a nice feather in the cap, so to speak.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I couldn't agree more. New shinies are fun but stop the ever increasing inflation of power (new, but balanced powers are cool too), and give us things to do and heroes to be made.

    Give us LIFE, not a "stay of execution"!
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Work the Harpy's/Stone Harpys &amp; Para Harpys &amp; Para Stones. You''ll like the results on the macer at that Skill [​IMG].
     
  8. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Whit Hci/HLD and the special moves/spells that further increase success, we can basicly start a new char and hit anything. That would mean without the current system the low lvl spawns would go untouched and be meaningless. That was the idea behind the current system.

    That said I dont realy enjoy whacking at skeletons ettins and lizard men all that much. But centralizing skill gains for a comunity benifit has its assets. Extra chances to meet people in game while battling a comon foe helps form bonds.

    Gathering lowend resources is a boon to a new acount. It slows skill gains because of the weight issue ie. plain/spined leathers and bone. These items are a much needed resource but are farmed by high end templates with a good str base for carry capacity. This was intended for lowend chars to gain skill and wealth via a BoS. Since thats changed these heavey resources have fallen from the hands of the new chars to that of seasoned vets.

    Personaly I am a power gamer by trade. I prefer to get it all done asap in a manner the beguiles game mechanics. I find a nitch where I can use the mechanics of a system to their upmost potential and I get a feeling of accomplishment from that. I did it in the most expedient method possible. NICE!

    But I find n a general scale people like to follow a path that they are directed in. The curent system alows for this but there is no trail to follow. I use this method when gaining a weapon skill. 0-30 buy npc(40haven) 30-42 hinds in delucia. I then hop over to covetous and use the skeleton overland spawn between floors 2 and 3 from 42-68. From here i run over to despize lvl 2 and hit the ettins untill 85. From here its earth ele till 102. At 102 I figure Im done training and let the skill manifest naturally or if im feeling aggressive for the time I run into painted caves and use the troglodytes till 120. This is a very fast way to get my skills up fast but, it doesnt have a "path' to follow.

    And as I see it thats the main problem. there isnt an area I can, from scratch, follow these wrestling numbers to optimize my gains. If we have a training area that has all these wrestling numbers in a nice neat row where new players and vets alike would go for training we could get the benifits of the old system and the current one together for a greater experience. That leads to stale mechanics after some time and would need to be spruced up from time to time to keep it fresh.

    But mostly I want to finish my skills fast. I want to hunt not train. I want to find new areas. I want to fight new creatures with new ability's and use new tactics. I want to stay interested.

    Staying interested in a golem is not going to happen. Making it so there is no risk is a problem. And with larger groups working on a single creature where everyone is cross healing wont make this go away. Hence the current system keeps us on our toes minus the golem of course.

    Maybe a new player handbook or ingame encyclopedia or compendium with simular info as the hunter guide here on stratics would help. Or an area with a path to follow leading ever upwards to legendary.

    Now with a pvp template or goal in mind we see the golem trainers hard at work. The idea is to "not pvm" but to pvp. So, this leads up to wanting to avoid these char interactions untill on the feild of battle vs a player. Making it so these players can work skills expediantly without lose of insurance/items is another facet of this problem.

    Training off other players.

    As the current system makes it very dificult to train from other players I think it could go a long way culminating the benefits we are seeking as a community as well as speeding up the process of skil gains. The main problem is where the more skilled kills/loots/collects insurance from the training char. This is where we run into trouble as either your in felucia or in a guild. In felucia as we all know anything goes and training there isnt a viable option. The we have the guild. where fighting amongst themselves is considered ungamely or rude. This is one option. A training contract that bonds a pair of players into an agreement of aggression for a certain duration. This can allow trust as well as skill gain and tactical knowledges of battle for a "fee" determined by the "teacher".

    Teachers might even gain in a virtue. I know as of late thats a bad word as this game has severly needed a virtue fix/finishing. But teaching hasnt even been brought up ever as far as I know. My skill canot be a benifit to anyone in their skill gaining progress. This is somthing that can be done and bring players together as well as add a fresh feel to training skills.
     
  9. joblackjon

    joblackjon Guest

    To sablestorm...

    I agree with most of your comments..but...I think the Devs must focus on attracting new players. The fate of UO depends on new customers. UO's graphics are likely the number one reason a new player won't last a week but the skill gain system is probably the second factor...just too complicated, cumbersom and time-consuming for a new player who doesn't know the "tricks".

    However, my main point is: if you have the innate "ability" to fight Ogre Lords with less that GM skills, you should be rewarded with greater skill gains since you obviously have the right stuff! Currently you won't gain a thing because you "should" be fighting Lizardmen.

    Or consider this RL scenario. I successfully Provoke 12 drags onto 12 other drags but since they are too far above my ability, I don't even receve my GGS gain. That is effing ridiculous! If these targets are so far beyond my "supposed ability" and I somehow manage to succeed, I should receive a commendation, a bonus, some sort of special recognition. I should definitely not be ignored and punished with zero skill gain.

    That just seems wrong to me! I shouldn't learn more from mediocrity than from superiority.