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a plea to change one spellweaving spell

Discussion in 'UHall' started by aarons6, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    gift of life.. as it is now its almost useless..
    when i die, the Resurrection gump comes up just like its supposed to.. but since i cannot move i am stuck to cancel it 99% of the time as what killed me is standing right on top of my corpse.


    smart one devs.. really..
     
  2. Agreed, always was a pain when you died to a load of spawn and cant move to res out of "danger"
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The fix could be quite simple, just introduce a "delay timer" before the res gump comes up.

    Like 10 or 15 seconds to give enough time to the ghost to find a better spot to res.....
     
  4. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    or just let you walk around.. you can wait too long standing there, you only get a couple minutes and after that clicking ok doesn't do anything..

    i believe you used to be able to walk awhile ago.
     
  5. sacrifice
    vs
    gift of life(time constraint)

    was gonna suggest teaming a rezzer ... but


    :talktothehand:nvm ... yw
     
  6. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    This might allow players to get into places they dont belong. Its one of the main reasons I have always skipped weaving. It just dont seem right even though it is.
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is why I merely suggested a 10-15 seconds delay before the gump shows up, to differentiate Gift of Life from Sacrifice.

    With Sacrifice one can walk as long as one wants before ressing, with Gift of Life it would be limited. Not forever as it is with Sacrifice, but neither as strict as it is currently where one cannot move at all. A limited ability to move for a short time could be granted, IMHO.
     
  8. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I guess I'm going to agree here that having a few seconds to move to relative safety would be preferable.
     
  9. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    At one time I thought about learning this skill, Mostly just for this spell, but since there's always a 'catch' thrown in to ruin stuff, I decided against it, looks like it was the correct decision. Dev's don't play UO, how would they know??
     
  10. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Instead of changing just spellweaving, what I'd like to see is a delay between a player agreeing to be resurrected and monsters targeting you. Quite often if you're in a spawn with a group of players, someone dies. Then as you resurrect them, they're insta-targeted and dead again. Sometimes even if they resurrect behind someone, expecting the monster to target them instead...it'll decide to score a rezkill anyway. I've been caught that way a few times myself.

    Give the newly resurrected a couple of seconds in which to get a heal or invis from someone, or run from the monster before it re-targets them. Then you don't need to move before you accept the resurrection, you have time after you resurrect to get a head start ;)

    Wenchy
     
  11. Mr. Smither1

    Mr. Smither1 Seasoned Veteran
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    The only char I have that gets any use from this spell is my tamer, I wait for whatever killed me to switch target to my pet. I don't have much luck using it on my pets either. I think my CU has rezzed me more often than the gift of life has rezzed my CU.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    A couple of seconds is too little IMHO.

    Hiding can be done via skill, but if one does not have it, via spell or potions.

    Now, spell requires to re-equip before being able to cast the spell (for LRC) and potions need to loot one's own corpse first. Both actions needing time before one can actually hide.

    I would say the bare minimum should be 10 seconds whether as a delay in between being a Ghost and getting the Gift of Life gump pop up or before any surrounding monster would re-target a freshly resurrected player........

    Let's not forget that not all players may have the fastest internet connection and sometimes LAG is a factor too. A 10 seconds minimum time frame would possibly take these variables in account also.
     
  13. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Sounds like a crutch for players. I personally don't want to see a growth in kamikazi players.
     
  14. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Only thing I could see happening is the added effect of being able to resurrect players or pets that you target.

    Spellweaving skill paired with anatomy would resurrect players.
    Spellweaving skill paired with animal lore would resurrect pets.
     
  15. Then dont look.
    Not sure WTH you mean anyway.
    It only stands to reason that if they offered gift of life as a spell option for spellweaving, to make it useful, effective, viable.
    It currently is, sorta, but it could use a minor tweak, say, when you self res, you come back to life hidden?
     
  16. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Forgot I wasn't suppose to post my opinions on a public form which you posted a topic in which inevitably means you're looking for responses. If you wanted this to be developer specific you should have private messaged one.
     
  17. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Firstly, I played UO for years on 28k dialup, so you don't need to tell me about lag - I've been there and I still wouldn't have needed a 10 second delay. Not even half that.

    Secondly, I only have 1 tamer with hiding so I do know how it works for non hiders recovering corpses etc before they cast. They don't need 10 seconds either. Consider that non-spellweavers have no such protection and cope just fine :)

    What my casters do is double click their corpse while they're still dead so it's the last object, then they can rez, hit use last and run. I also sometimes wait before I accept the rez and let monsters move away. Sometimes they don't, but often they will. And if I die again, well it's no hardship to go get a resurrection like any other player does. Having said that, my spellweaver isn't often rezkilled. Because there's another little trick that all my characters employ when they're gonna die. They run towards a safe spot/gap in the spawn. Even if it's just a second running, if I run, die, then wait before resurrecting, there's little chance the monster will be on top of me.

    Really, gift of life is a good spell and works about fine if you use it with a bit of savvy. I'm more frustrated in resurrecting players and seeing them repeatedly rezkilled even when several mages are trying to heal them up. Which is why I would really prefer if monsters waiting a few seconds on seeing a newly resurrected player, before they instakill them.

    Wenchy
     
  18. WHAT is "why"?
    GoL is already on a timer ... yes?
    you want MORE time for the spell to be effective AND the ability to move about?
    or just the move about?
    or about the location of the items (body/corpse)

    In the OP's stated opinion
    on its own ... perhaps ...
    one could surmise that the OP >dies a lot<(tone of post borders: frustration)

    however ...
    GoL is not the ONLY self rez option available ... now is it?

    Come on popps ... time to earn your keep ...
    How many resurrection options are there?
    what are their separate benefits and limits? ...

    chart it up :pie:
     
  19. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    /this - Since i'm gonna die again anyways, just trying to pick the spot "I" want often makes a difference i getting my stuff back. I usually use sacrifice - hide, and if I Have to, I can always use honor (unless I'm in the bottom of terathan keep - the stairs up & out = FAIL)
     
  20. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    scoff.. if you don't think spellweaving is powerful enough, you obviously aren't playing your character correctly. and gift of life, as it is, is still quite amazing.
     
  21. I didnt say anything like this.
    Troll much?

    Another dumb response. I didnt post the thread/topic, either.
    puni666 = :coco: ??
     
  22. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Huh what?
    "If you are not mounted on the Cu Sidhe, this creature will heal you, you can be mounted on other creatures. It can not ressurect you (confirmed by a dev member), although it will try anyways."
    Since when can a cu rez you?
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The timer that already exists, is about the duration of the spell, NOT the ressing gump.....

    More correctly, there also is a duration time for the ressing gump under the Gift of Life spell which, if one has not used the ressing gump for a given time, makes the gump void and the ressing no longer possible.

    This timer makes using this spell even less possible since even standing on the spot where one died in patient waiting that the MoB walks away can become not usefull if too much time goes by before the MoB walks away. The ressing gump ceases to function after some time without clicking the button thus making the spell useless in many cases.

    As it is now, the ressing gump pretty much comes up right after one dies thus, not giving any time to move out of the place where one died.

    And since one died there, chances are that if one uses the ressing gump to resurrect in that same dieing spot, that one will be rez-killed again by the same monster(s) that just caused the death......

    This, makes the Gift of Life spell often useless as I and others see it..........

    Yes, there is also the Sacrifice Virtue. The Sacrifice Virtue allows for free Ghost walking for an unlimited time before one can invoke the Virtue and resurrect.

    Without changing Gift of Life so much to make it an exact same double of the Sacrifice Virtue, "IF" the resurrecting gump was delayed about 10-15 seconds, this would allow for the Gift of Life spell to be more usefull without making it overlap with the Sacrifice Virtue".

    What would be the differences then between these 2 resurrecting ways ?

    Sacrifice Virtue - Ability of the Ghost to walk without any time limitation before being able to invoke the Virtue and self-resurrect;

    modified Gift of Life spell - Ability of the Ghost to walk for up to a max of 10-15 seconds before being able to self-resurrect thanking to the Gift of Life ressing gump coming up.

    Is it clear now ? They would STILL be 2 different ways to resurrect NOT overlapping each other but working in a separate way.

    Yet, the modified Gift of Life would finally become more usefull as compared to now where on most occasions it is rendered useless.
     
  24. Come on popps ... time to earn your keep ...
    How many resurrection options are there?
    what are their separate benefits and limits? ...

    chart it up


    Sacrifice
    Gift of Life
    wandering healers
    ankhs
    bandages from "healing" player
    :thumbsup: How many resurrection options are there?
    (I know I missed at least one "self rez option")
    *drums fingers*
     
  25. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    why cant you walk around as a ghost until you push the ok button.. it would solve almost all of the res killing.. even at a healer sometimes it would be nice to walk a couple screens before you push ok.

    its not like you can walk around forever.. the res gump has a timer, if you wait too long nothing happens when you push ok.


    either that or you need to be resurrected invisible. or maybe even both.
     
  26. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Humm you died? In an area with a monster close by? Or a PvPer?

    Either way you are standing over your body and can come bakck to life, the down side is the killer is still there and can kill you again?

    No wait I want to be able to run away from the killler to a safe location, resurect, get dressed, med, up, use my LRC sit to heal up completly, then run back and get my stuff? Hummmmmm?

    Perhaps you shuldn't have put yourself in a position were there is such danger that after resiing you have 0 chance of recovering your body.

    I have ressed in Many places with MANY killer there who can kill me rigth away and using dres macros or clicking your body as last target I can be fully Dressed and running fast enough to run away.

    GOL works just fine, nothing should be there so you lose all aspects of risk.

    Pay more attention to what is going on around you and dont get backed in to such a corner that recovering you stuff is impossible.

    There are many way to res, ANKS, Sacrifice, Healers, Tree of life, Freinds, Sacrifical ANKs in houses. If GOL is your only solution your lost already.

    The auto targeting of a ressed player by MOBs is an issue, I have had MObs battling a few player and when a char resses is automatically targetd, there is definatly somthing wrong there.

    GOL is fine leave it as is.
     
  27. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    I'm all for having a 10-15 second delay before the heal goes off. Or make it so spawn won't target you for 5-10 seconds after using a GoL rez. That's long enough to grab your corpse and heal yourself some.
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Self rez option - Not much viable as it looses skill points....hardly anyone uses it....

    Sacrifice - Was it not for the Virtue to decay and one have to always keep up with it, it would be more usable. It is annoying to reach Knight through work and time dedicated to it to see it go away all for nothing as time passes without using it. Means the time used to build it up was wasted all for nothing.......

    Gift of Life - Topic of this thread, has severe limitations currently which hinder its use and full enjoyment.

    Wandering healers - They are certainly usefull but, unfortunately, they are NOT present in many popular hunting areas.....

    Ankhs - Same as above, often to reach any of these (depending on where one is hunting) a lot of walking has to be done and it is necessary to walk back to the corpse after the ressing which doubles the annoyance. Doing it a few times is ok, the problem arises when one is at a particularly dangerous hunting grounds and one dies a lot. Having to go tens upon tens of times to the ressing place can become tedious.

    Bandages from "healing" player - A great option, too bad that it requires to have near by someone who has the ability which, in a game like UO where a LOT of solo playing goes one, does not always happen.....

    I still think that offering a small delay of 10-15 seconds to the ressing gump for Gift of Life so as to allow a little room to a Ghost to walk away from the dieing spot before ressing, would not be a big deal and would make this spell largely more enjoyable.

    And, I think, this "modified" Gift of Life would not overlap with any of the other existing methods but, instead, complement with them to make the UO playing experience a more enjoyable one, less frustrating.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Humm you died? In an area with a monster close by? Or a PvPer?

    This ability can severely be hindered by the internet connection and LAG that a given player might have.

    Not all players have the same very fast connection and while to some players, thanking to the high speed of their internet connection and computing power it might turn out to be easy to res and walk away or hide or retrieve stuff from corpse and blah blah, to many other players not enjoying the same connection or using the same fast computing power this might result in an impossible task.

    Allowing a little delay before ressing would deal with this difference and let also players with lesser hardware/connection be able to enjoy the game likewise by walking away the dieing location a little before ressing.

    As I said, it "may" work fine for those players with top hardware and internet connection but this is not the same for many other players who still play UO. Providing this little delay would in no way harm players who already have no problems but would definately help players currently having problems. So, I see no point in not changing Gift of Life to be a bit more usable to many olayers who currently find it of hardly any real advantage.....

    This is not a valid argument to my opinion. That there might be other ressing options does not mean that if Gift of Life can be bettered with limited effort (how much coding work does it really take to introduce a timer of 10-15 seconds before the ressing gump comes up so as to allow the Ghost to walk away a little ?? I would assume not much....), that Gift of Life should not be improved just on the basis of the argument that there are other options. I already explained why the other options often might not be viable for one reason or another and introducing a limited modification to Gift of Life would not overlap with them but integrate with them to make the UO playing experience more enjoyable and less frustrating.

    Agreed. Ressing characters should definately have a few seconds of immunity from being retargeted from present MoBs to give enough time to do whatever and not be rez-killed.

    I happen to think otherwise and that definately there is room to improve this spell so as to make the UO playing experience more enjoyable and less frustrating.
     
  30. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Another option - res with 50% hp AND all your armor equipped (or auto looting body).

    Or 10%hp per arcane focus level restored.
     
  31. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The history of self rez began with the penalty of stat loss, in which, if you decided to resurrect, you would lose skill points. Then the virtue of Sacrifice allowed up to three free self rez per week, which not only had no penalty, but retrieved your belongings as well. Gift of Life gives a static rez bind with a spell cooldown, while also extending the benefit to your pets if you choose so. Because of the static nature of Gift of Life, it's best to use the spell while in a party, or while on a tamer whose pet is either about to die or has since began tanking for you.

    If Gift of Life was just like Sacrifice then there would be no point to the virtue...but I can understand the frustration. Certain templates can make use of the SW self rez easier than others. For example, a bard w/ peacemake can quickly peace the area in order to equip his/her belongings, then have, presumably, enough time to cast a heal and then peacemake again before an invis. Or, as the spell suggests, it's a nice spell to use on a tamer, who may have the opportunity to self rez while, for the sake of a Greater Dragon, the pet is busy fighting after you have died running away from...whatever. On a mage/sw w/o bard or taming skills, and in a solo situation, it's less appropriate to use--mainly because Gift of Life does not intend to be exactly like the virtue of Sacrifice. However, when used with the right template, or situation (dying on the other side of a steps/cave entrance), it's a fairly powerful spell.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Introducing a mere 10-15 seconds delay before the ressing gump comes up would not make it like the Sacrifice Virtue.

    The Sacrifice Virtue has no limitation to wander around with a Ghost before invoking it.
    A modfied gift of Life would STILL have a time limitation, only that rather than 0 seconds like now (insta ressing gump coming up...), it would have this limitation time raised to 10-15 seconds.

    The Sacrifice Virtue would STILL be preferable by all those wanting free and endless Ghost movement before deciding to invoke it.

    They would not overlap each other but complement each other, I think.
     
  33. Oops! Gem of Salvation ... I know there are still other ways to >get rezzed< in game
    (what I asked for)
    gonna need ALL of them to properly assess the impact of "tweaking" one.

    Don't want one to become the preferred ONLY one being used
    for the same reason we don't want them to all be exactly the same

    One of the goals of any current adventure Should Be: avoid dieing
    and the more you remove the inconvenience of dieing(on the game side)
    (by increasing the ease of avoiding a consequence of not planning/attending attention properly)
    the "player" will never NEED to get better ... smarter ...
    more aware

    a little challenge of puzzle solving
    hard enough to "entertain" & retain attention
    harder for the solo player
    (MMO after all)
    but yet not so easy to spend all day
    banging your head against a padded wall
    OCD and mobs ....
    are closely related ... after all ...

    just saying, (because tis a fair comparison)
    Solo UO mob farmers aren't much removed
    from state fair carney chickens
    playing tic-tac-toe for corn
    (the chicken gets the corn & has nothing else to do)


    :scholar: Carry On!
     
  34. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    There really is no reason not to have a small delay on Gift of Life. Bawwww it makes Sacrifice useless. Nope. Sacrifice still gives you everything on your body, plus you can much more reliably get to a safer spot before rezzing yourself.
     
  35. wow ... missed the drift completely ...

    No-one said a little movement would render sacrifice useless ...
    *tsk*
    fine
    for "a little movement" to be added
    each time used subtracts from total uses per day (i'll offer five total per day)
    or
    the more you move ... the longer it is before you can use it again
    like "stuck option"

    :danceb: