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A plea to MESANNA re what was said during the Legends meet and greet (new items)...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, May 4, 2014.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    New content is always welcome, I heard about the coffee makers and beans, making rune books larger and so forth.

    PLEASE, do NOT hand them out merely as gifts, make them as CRAFTABLES !

    Probably writing the code as craftables is more work than simply designing them and handing them out as a gift but Ultima Online is a rare game out there, a special game out there, I will go as far as saying a unique game out there, because it has a very very solid crafting area. But the crafting area needs to be taken care of, grown over time, "watered" from time to time, so to speak....

    So, please, if you are adding new items to the game wherever possible make them be as first priority craftables..... The coffee makers, for example, make them craftables by tinkers with varying styles (and efficiency) depending from the tinker's level and hey, perhaps we can also have them need to be assembled from various parts (some of which craftable by blacksmiths ?) like the alchemy kegs, for example....

    Do not forget tha world of craftables in Ultima Online which goes beyond making armor or weapons....

    Thanks !
     
    #1 popps, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  2. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    I personally think its stupid to have to have various components from various trades just to make one item. Barrels are a perfect example, a serious PITA to have to make. So go ahead and make new stuff craftable but for the love of god, don`t make it more complex than it has to be. A tinker can make it, perfect, leave it at that.

    Another exercise in stupidity is anything to do with cannons/balls and the likes. Suuuuuure lets have more complicated ways to make simple stuff! Sounds awesome.
     
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  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I need to disagree, and with reasons......

    Unfortunately, in Ultima Online too many players tend to want to do too many things.

    That is, be fighters AND also be crafters so as to be self sufficient with their account. That is, have crafting "mules" only existing to support the needs for their fighters.

    This, IMHO, kills Ultima Online as a real multi-player experience because if too many players are self sufficient, then there is simply no interaction fighters <--> crafters.

    BUT, if the crafting processes are instead complex and time consuming enough, then chances are that those players who tend to favour fighting will NOT (thank God or, I should say, thank to Developers full of wisdom and good design thinking....) either want or simply have the time to get too much into crafting and will stay away from it thus leaving it to those players who, instead, love playing crafters and all of the complexities of crafting.

    This will therefore be an incentive to help a crossing, vital fighters <--> crafters economy.
    And this, clearly will benefit Ultima Online as a multi-player game, overall, IMHO.

    So, the more crafting process are complex and time consuming, the better and healthier for UO I think they are since they inevitably will favour a fighters <--> crafters mutual exchange economy.
     
  4. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I agree with you there popps, on one account I am able to have fully geared/maxed skill crafter #1, crafter #2 (for the skills that didn't fit on #1), a PVM archer that can be switched to swords/fence/mace with 1 soulstone, a PVP archer, a PVM thrower, a PVM Pure Mage, and a PVM Tamer Mage who is also a treasure hunter and thief with only a few soulstones....other than making tons of pvp characters and sampires (which I use my 2nd account for anyways) are there any templates left? the game has been made so 1 person can easily play most templates on 1 account, and all templates with 2 accounts. because of that a lot of veteran players just do everything solo, which kills the community spirit of the game....look at siege perilous, they have an amazingly strong community because its only 1 character per account
     
  5. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Here are my thoughts.
    Bigger rune books - nice, but I'd like my scribe to be able to combine the ones I have. If I could combine my 'traditional Tram dungeons' and my 'newer tram dungeons' into one book, that would be lovely.
    Coffee beans. yup, let me grow them! We can grow cocoa, though we can only make chocolate with it. Have the initial seeds spawn on something that needs a reason to hunt it.
    Coffee pot craftable or gift? Maybe both? a basic, simple pot to craft, a fancy one for a gift?
     
  6. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Crafted items are fine but if to complicated, to resource demanding and to time eating, they will become a pain.
    Just take a suit with max resist, it take to long time to get the resist right and if human crafter and someone want an elf or garg suit, you have to use paper and pen or spreadsheet to make it. The other mods are ok, if you have the resources and skills, just add them.
    Yes this cannon stuff a is a pain too.
    About doing everything solo, I would like to see every warrior, mage, bard, tamer have room for 1-3 craftskills, that be lumbering/carpentry or mining/blacksmith or Tailoring/Imbuing or something else and then let crafters have room for 1-3 combat skills so they can somewhat defend them self vs mobs. I really don't like the idea of multi crafters, where you need a lot crafting skills to make a suit like armslore, smithing, tinkering, blacksmith and imbuing to mane a metal suit. All should be allowed to PvM/PvP and craft on same char. If you choose tailoring/imbuing, you may need to buy stuff made of other crafters like potions, jewelry, tools, weapons...
     
  7. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    And I don't want to have to rely on a bunch of random people I've never met who probably don't even play when I do to meet my needs in-game. The great part about it being a GAME is that it's a GAME, if you don't want to play with others and want to do it all, there shouldn't be something holding you back from it just for ~~~~reasons~~~~
     
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  8. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Aran, 90% of games on the market today are designed for solo, UO was designed almost 20 years ago specifically for community activity and economies...letting people be 100% solo in UO goes against every single idea the game was founded on.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But that's precisely the point !

    we already have way too many crafting "mules" in Ultima Online, IMHO..... If crafting was less complicated and time consuming than what it is, what would stop every player to play a high end fighter and a high end crafter and not need ever to interact with other players in the game ?

    Hell, we even have player vendors in the game so even the selling can do without any player to player interaction !!

    The only one tiny small thing which still keep a slither of fighter to crafter interaction is the complexity of several crafting things which bothers a number of players who thus prefer to deal with other players who enjoy the realm of crafting and do not mind the complexity and time consuming aspects of several crafting tasks.

    Take this way making crafting tasks more simple and less time consuming so that everyone can do them, even if their playing time in UO is limited, and this will be the total nail in the coffin to multi-player Ultima online and player to player interaction....

    No thanks. Please DO leave crafting processes complicated and time consuming, at least, "some" of UO will remain multi-player and with a fighter to crafter interaction.....

    I hypothesized a system where each player had to bound the account either to fighting OR crafting for a given Shard.

    That is, the player had to decide for a given Shard they want to play, whether any and all character of that account can specialize only in fighting skills OR in crafting skills.

    For example, say that I want to play a crafter on Atlantic, all of my characters there will be able to max out their crafting skills (up to legendary), learn all sorts of crafting recipes and all that BUT, as a compromise, NONE of my characters on Atlantic will be able to eat powerscrolls OR train any fighting skill past a CAP of like 80 or 90 fighting skills. In effective, by binding my account to crafting on Atlantic I will only be able to play high end crafting there and just an average fighting up to what fighting skills Capped at 80 or 90 max will allow me.

    Of course, on another shard I can reverse that and with that same one account I will be able to max out fighting skills but compromise having crafting skill go no higher than 60 or 70 (this because many crafting skills stop at 100.0 and so not go up to 120.0).

    So, with this type of design, all accounts will still be able to experience all possible different tasks in the game THOUGH, only on different shards.

    This would achieve not only to increase crafter to fighters interaction for all shards and finally stop the use of "craftin mules", but also, it would bring life to all Shards since players will need to split their game play to at least 2 Shards if they wanted to experience both crafters and fighters in the game.

    I have been begging for this change for years now, unheard though......
     
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Rely ?
    We have safe trade windows which do not allow for any risk. You need as a fighter a crafted suit ?
    Make a deal with a crafter and put gold in your side of the trade window and the crafter will put the crafted suit in their side of the window. No risks involved.

    We even had designed repair deeds years back to avoid having to "hand out" our suits to crafters for repairs....

    I am sorry, but personally I see more hurting to the multi-player aspects of the game the loss of player to player interaction because of the unfortunate use of crafting mules rather than any whatever minimal risk there might be in dealing with other players.

    There is SOLO games if one wants to play without others to deal with, multi-players games should be always played interacting with others.

    Also, you'd always have an alternative to subscribe to a second account and keep one account for fighting and one account for crafting even if design was to keep the 2 activities as separate, at least at high end level, for the same one Shard as I wished wholeheartedly that they did.....

    This is what currently several Siege or Mugen players do, where there is limit of 1 character only.....

    And even now, with crafting as it is, complex and time consuming, noone stops any player from doing it other than lack of time. With limited game time, of course, if one has to spend lots of time crafting, they will play less their fighters.....

    So, many preferring to use their in game time for fighting will just leave crafting alone and contact crafters for their more crafting needs requiring more complex and time consuming tasks. So, noone is barred from doing it, it is just made not so much convenient so that only those who really want and enjoy crafting will bother with it.....

    And this keeps alive the light of multi-playing in UO....

    Now, if only scripting was eradicated for good, once and for all from Ultima Online, perhaps we could finally see the end of crafters being used as mules in UO.....
     
    #10 popps, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
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  11. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    So is the collective of mages going to get together to start suppling power to Sosaria? Can only place a coffee maker in a house that has a mailbox placed already. Have to have someplace for the electric bill to spawn. Or it will be a cordless magic coffee maker that burns gems for power.

    Maybe they should finnish the set and have toilets gifted to place near the tub.

    Speaking of tubs I took the whole coffee maker ask a tongue and cheek joke like the first run ask & answer. First handful of questions to be asked was if they could put arrow and bolt dye tub in the game.

    What to add to the crafting. Rather have a line of stone containers added to the game. More options for that graveyard theme. Would rather have a childs playset deed for yard art over a coffee maker. As long as there is the swing set with the annimation of a skeleton child swinging. Perfect gift for the return of the walking dead.

    17th year pick and can only use, new vet reward eth. Fat Boy motorcycle artwork can not be that hard to stick over a llamma.

    A Fat Runebook with 64 slots will do.

    A may come out with crazy ideals large and small. Adding and blowing out of porportion something like a coffee maker is really a better use of time. Revamp the Doom/paragon arty list and the BOD reward list already. Then move onto a new hidden land that only GM crafted armor and weapons can be worn along with any low end arty earned in that land. Untill you've stripped down and fought an Ogre Lord in GM gear you'll never understand what this game has evolved into. A land where only a three slot or smaller pats can be controled will make that old white wyrm shine again. Stop working harder and take the smarter path.
     
  12. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I didn't say trust, I said rely. I know reading is hard popps, but try it.
     
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Do we really need coffee in UO? i think there are better things the devs could be spending time on than keep pumping out these little do-dads that keep subscriptions open for another month. If thats what UO has come down, so be it, but very sad.
     
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  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Perhaps..... perhaps it was merely a joke but I do am concerned for UO because one too often I hear the powers that be talking about adding to the Clean Up points list of rewards or to the Veteran Rewards list but hardly I hear the mentioning of new craftables.....

    Now, I can understand that coding is more work for a craftable rather than a "handed out" item be it within the list of Clean Up rewards or the list of Veteran Rewards or a game drop or a new Void Pool item to redeem for points but I think the game would be better if new items, wherever possible, are added as craftables rather than being "handed out" whichever the way of choice for handing them out might be....

    So, I thought better stress out that Ultima Online does not merely need new items to be added, but new items as "craftables" to be added and, I think, the more the better.........

    By the way, a coffee maker not necessarily needs electricity, there are coffee makers which just work with some heat source and of these, we have plenty in the game.....
     
    #14 popps, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  15. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    When you get right down to it, do we even need sprites? Rogue did perfectly well with letters and punctuation as basic graphics, and people still play it today.
     
  16. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    UO needs guns.
     
  17. Yadd of Legends

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    I have mixed feelings on this, Popps. I applaud the ideal. It would be nice to stick with just fighting or crafting like the old days, but I don't know if that's ever going to be economically feasible again. I like PvM, but when starting a new mage or dexxer or tamer, I just don't make enough gold to buy everything I need - not the way the economy is now - so I also make characters that can chop wood, make boxes, mine ore, make shovels, make sewing kits - even start unraveling the loot to raise imbuing to eventually make my own armor. It's also just more fulfilling for me to make my own stuff. If that was not the intended model, why do we start out with six character slots and the option for a seventh (unless you're on Siege)? When I started a character on a new shard, I intended to make just a mage. But it soon became apparent the mage was not going to get very far without an army to support her, unless she joined some kind of group and asked for handouts, which was not my style. For me, creating multiple characters with different skills was the only viable alternative other than just creating a single character to hang around for gifts from the developers or EMs.
     
  18. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    As long as the beans are from a new plant and you get +2 hp regen for 20min after drinking a cup of coffee, it sounds like a good idea to me.
     
  19. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    There's no longer enough difference in comparative advantage in most resource production, meaning any particular player has no desire to specialize in most things. Even the wealthiest people in real life don't grow their own wheat (and if they bake their own bread, it's because they like it better than what's available), because the opportunity cost is so high. But in UO, most of the time we might as well produce something ourselves, rather than buy from another player. The most obvious reason is the high search cost of finding another player to trade with, because of the lower population. Last night, several of us in general chat had a good laugh at someone who wanted to buy something. Even if he hadn't alienated everybody else on the shard (some of us would sooner junk what we have before selling to him), the commodity is still hard to find in the quantity he wanted, never mind the low price he offered. And nobody makes a business out of selling that, anyway: most players don't demand it enough to be worth letting it sit on a vendor, and those who want that resource would rather harvest the resource themselves.

    That segues to the second reason. The natural consequence of the passage of time is that players trained up other characters for our own self-sufficiency. Prosperity funded the training of one's own crafters, or someone wanted a miner-smith to make it on the character's own. Either way, a player doesn't even need multiple accounts, just one good mule, to decide to do something himself just as well. By contrast, by the start of 1999, GM blacksmithing was uncommon enough that the introduction of a maker's mark was a big deal. I didn't start my own smith for a long time, so I'd buy a plate suit of AR30 for 900 gold, AR33 for 1500. Then when exceptional breastplates were made possible, I could get a suit of AR36 for 1800 if I was lucky to find a certain vendor was just stocked, but usually I'd pay 2000. Meanwhile, my leather suit vendor near the abbey was very popular with the PvP crowd. But over the next couple of years, I'd say, any long-term player had trained up his own crafters.
     
  20. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    PvP and a lot PvM would still buy their gear if it was not so hard to find what they need and so expensive. I could sell a lot more if I just had time to stock my vendors. Now I don't know how much item insurance hurt the crafters on normal shards but I know it is hard to sell weapons on Siege because all Siege Bless their weapon and never lose it.
     
  21. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    New crafting mechanics for anything. Read recipe and has hidden part that is made not known till recipe is used. One recipe can be read by a character. Crafted item require multiple parts like the obsidian statue. Final assembly one of a random series of an item type. So to craft said deco item would take like half dozen crafters with the different components needed to build one the random assemblies.
     
  22. a slave girl

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    Yes, please no more gifts on silver platters, make us work for them.

    I do not want anymore 6 chars X 8 accounts X however many shards, what's that? like 1000 gifts 800 of which are just alike and useless for the most part.

    As I said with the bunnys, rip them up and give us parts that we have to collect and piece back together, using crafters to do it because we are crafters. If I have 1000 parts and a bunny is 10 parts, then I will end up with only 100 useless UO gifts. Unless the bunny randomly hops, that'd be cute, and the eggs he makes lets us dye ourselves the same color for a day. Bunny outfits! So we can dress them up.

    If you can't do that then please slip a golden ticket into one of my next matching 800 useless UO gifts. A Golden ticket allowing me to get any UO item from the Origin store for free (game time not allowed).

    Oh and if UO gets coffee makers I want an ethereal hummer for xmas, ripped into pieces that my new mechanimagesmith has to put back together.

    :)

    Good post popps.
     
  23. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Part is insurance, part is the customization demanded of armor. For better or worse, they're consequences of AoS and imbuing. There's no more mixing and matching looted pieces to get maximum AR.
     
  24. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    That was already tried, with runed switches. If someone doesn't already have all the crafting skills among one's own characters, it's too much of a pain to make them.
     
  25. Minerva Foxglove

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    I dont mind complexity and several skills involved exept for exreeme things like ship ammo. There I draw my line. BUT ! If the items were arranged in the menues in a logical way and not in chronological order when they were implemented plus some throwed in from distance randomly, plus ordered south facing on top and east facing below, not randomly, this would help alot! I would run 6-7 more carp tinker vendors still.
     
  26. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Coffee pot can be made out of ingots.

    Larger rune books can be made the same way they always have been.

    Grow coffee beans just like you do the other plants.


    Why does everything have to be so hard and complicated? You don't need 10 items to make one. It's almost making these items a "grind" the way the thread is going.


    May as well ask for a Keurig coffee maker.
     
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  27. Gedgerez Tesherd

    Gedgerez Tesherd Journeyman

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    I would like Runebook crafting expanded to include all book size. Instead of crafting a runebook with the pre-selected size, INSTEAD, revamp it to allow one to use regular ordinary blank books, & add the currently standard Runebook size to the book selection as well. For use in public libraries (or bank box), the small pile of books could have daily renewable recall charges. The large pile of books could do something else like the ability to open a temporary Moongate lets say 30 seconds worth, or even eject a rune to the location you want to recall to upon clicking (rune eject comes with auto renewal daily charges).

    Including a picture for the possible Runebook types.

    runebook crafting1.JPG
     
  28. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    What you call a grind I say a method that doesn't include easy scripting. The Orc ship is a grand example opf an item in the game that never became abused. Unlike the very useful minax turn in items. As long as the task is not an easy script FTW. Even if something is new and desired. Then at least use it as a trap to start axing the easy button riders. Brit library turn in was the perfect rat trap that was never used. Even a new player could reconize who was doing fishy game play. The TOS is just an annoying step to start playing UO having to click that AGREE button.

    If a crafter reads a recipe that one time read per character makes one part of a ten part item. Crafted parts could be placed on a vendor and players piece them together. Or chat use for finding other crafters. Once completed then you find out what random item is crafted of a series of items from that assembly. And slip in that 1 in 25k easter egg rare assembled item. How many character would you have to stone a crafter skill on and read that recipe before one person could solo a ten part item. Considering the recipe part learned is random. It is for something deco and not some game changing pet trapped in a crystal.
     
  29. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    More cowbell!
     
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  30. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    OK I forgot about scripting and didn't factor into the equation but I see your point.


    The devs could just not allow these items to be used for turn in points and have to be at max skill to make them.

    As for the ToS, Broadsword needs to go hard or go home when it comes to stepping up to the plate and enforcing the ToS.
     
  31. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    The worst recipe is the new 3 tier cake. I cant kill that chef. Cannon parts are ridiculous.

    Stick with easy.

    And why cant we get a freebie item and a crafted item as a gift? You don't like a bucnch of bunnies, leave em on the floor in Luna.
     
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  32. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    im gonna have to disagree with this one. there should be things in the game which are very very hard. to much in this game has been made so a 45min character with an imbued suit can do it. now the moonstone earrings, thats a little too hard imo. however, it makes them a truely rare drop from the ogre chef that isnt worth the time to farm so you dont see alot of them. i wish there were more items like this. a "common" drop (i think the droprate for the cake is pretty high) with a very rare other drop (novelty only, not game changeing stats if any at all) just some nice easter eggs in the game to keep the thrill of the hunt alive.
     
  33. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I think everything should be easy to get.
     
  34. Dot_Warner

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    The cake recipe drops 100% of the time to a random person with looting rights. The ogre cook isn't that hard if you plan ahead, have enough people and make sure to destroy the cauldrons ASAP. However, it is a rather long fight as the mob has a stupidly high number of hitpoints for no valid reason. I also question the logic of putting a crafting recipe on such a mob, especially when its a cake. A recipe for a artifact-level item sure, but...a cake?

    Moonstone jewelry isn't even worth trying to farm. The 1:20,000 drop rate kinda kills it, relegating it to pure novelty status. Slithers and Lavaliere (which actually HAVE stats) have a higher chance to drop... o_O
     
  35. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Blue Crane Society

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    Expanding Rune books is an excellent idea but please make it so you can mass eject all the runes at once and so that you can move them around like the seed box instead of having to take them all out and put them back in the order you want. The current graphic is very compact and stackable but big enough to see so please keep it as is.
    I have 2 libraries to update so if you could make these changes soon that'd be great! :heart: