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A public service announcement on vendors and “enhanced” client.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by EvilPixieWorks, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    I’m no fan of the “enhanced” client… and I’m sick of the staff trying to force 3d down our throats for the last 10+ years… but if you like it, great… whatever. BUT you need to know something if you have vendors:

    When someone who plays the enhanced client places a vendor… then loads the vendor full of goodies for sale… no matter what they see on their screen, the vast majority of players… who are playing classic, only see a big jumble at the top of the vendor’s main pack. When the vendor owner uses containers… from what I see, the stuff INSIDE containers looks to be fine… however putting multiple containers in the main pack means they are slumped together in a pile and extremely difficult for a shopper to see what they are looking at.

    Even if your vendor is in a prime spot… your sales are suffering! Not “may be”, they ARE suffering more then need be. Most people refuse to dig around in a vendor’s mess.

    My best suggestion is to manager your vendor with classic, then go on your marry way as you wish. OR depend on some smart containers lined up in just a single row at the top of your main pack and only put items inside. It doesn’t do wonders for your first impression, but at least your goods wont be hidden from shoppers. If you don’t believe the possible state of your vendor based on what I just said above… log into classic and have a look.

    Happy vendoring! :danceb:
     
  2. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    +100,000,000
     
  3. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    Yup - if I go shopping and see the clumped items, I head to another vendor. Right now as I get used to EC I do work mostly (60-40) in CC.
     
  4. Hello Pix
    I dont play enhanced for 2 reasons. Dead bodies look like they float to me and the vending packs suck.
     
  5. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    For those who are playing EC and Pinco's UI, there is a button that you can drag onto a hotbar and clicking on it will let you open packs in the classic client mode. Clicking on it again will let you open them in the normal EC way.

    There is no reason for those using the EC to have problems with CC customers other than laziness.
     
  6. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    True! if the packs dont look right its because they are not using it right
     
  7. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Been a problem since the Third Dawn client.. Old news.

    I always stock in 2d and have done for years because of this problem.
     
  8. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    Of course, if all the lazy dinosaurs who insist on using the clunky "classic" client would join the rest of the world in the twentyfirst century....
     
  9. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    See, this is what I can use ... I have the UI but have yet to implement it. I think I see some UI changes in EC coming at me!

    Thank you for this tip ...
     
  10. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    Read the post above yours. ;)

    EvilPixieWorks, it would be nice if you edited your original post to reflect the new facts. :)
     
  11. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Why should we downgrade to the EC? The CC works better as a User Interface for UO, was done right, unlike the exasperating EC, and has the cleaner graphics.

    We dinosaurs, as you call us, have the wisdom that comes with age. You'll wise up as the years go by as a natural side effect of experience. I suspect UO and the CC will still be here when you realize what a poor User Interface, in spite of all it's bells & whistles, the EC actually is.
     
  12. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    rofl how mistaken I tried to use the cc today to help a friend figure something out and not only did it give me a headache it reminded me why I will never go back to using it other than trouble shooting to help others who wish to use it!
     
  13. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Give it time. I've read that the average age of UO players is getting up there. That would explain why most players still use the CC. You'll come back to the Light Side one day. :scholar:

    :)
     
  14. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    lol I like the cookies here
     
  15. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    took me 3 months to get used to EC. playing it from 1-5 hours a day. I cant go back to CC it is slow choppy, you get less of a play window. Effects in EC like paralize show exactly how long one is parad. CC you can para someone and never know if they are parad or simple no moving (tons of little things like this). I wont tell you all the best parts of EC cause then you might beat me in pvp =)

    clearly tan you havnt spent much time at ec and simply gave up. This is still UO, even with there enhanced client you still have to put in many hours of learning computer basics to play the game. I know youve already done that on the CC but now you have to do it again, and once you do youll like the change.

    PS the UI did seem lacking without pinco's UI. being able to press one button to target a player, then press another button to get there bar is simply amazing. NO more ctrl shift "oh i missed his bar" and if your like me you have the drop down mobiles window showing you all the orange bars on your screen at the time anyways. Pinco's UI is awesome.


    ..... Pinco's UI
     
  16. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    No arguement there. EA should give him the entire code for the EC and pay him to redo the turkey they handed us from the ground up.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    m no fan of the “enhanced” client… and I’m sick of the staff trying to force 3d down our throats for the last 10+ years…

    Stopped reading right there... rest of the post is worthless.
     
  18. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Messy vendor packs aren't attractive to anyone.

    As someone said above, apparently Pinco's mods permit the EC user to view vendor packs in CC mode, so everyone is happy.

    It really doesn't matter to me which client anyone else uses. I hope one day the EC is sufficiently appealing to me to want to try it again.

    Truth be told, and from all the good reviews Pinco's received, I may check it out when I next have some time to give it a good whirl.
     
  19. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Pinco's UI has made a world of difference..... with the Copper or Decors Icon and Texture packs it's taken out much of the "ugly" of the EC.... save the paperdoll and all it's weirdness...

    But the usefullness of playing in the EC with Pinco's has made such a difference to me I'll never go back to the CC.

    As for vendors I can see the point and you are right something needs done about it. But sure isn't me I've never had a vendor don't ever plan to get one either.

    Once you learn all that you can do with the EC over CC you'll get over the uglies of things like the poor Hiryu and your dragon looking feeble and small..... and all of them being one color and embrace the change and upgrade Pinco has given the EC.

    And Yes I agree...... UO should hire Pinco and give him/her control over it to fix it and fix it right.

    If the DEV team could do things half as quickly and effectively as Pinco we'd have a game that puts all others to shame by Thanksgiving.
     
  20. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    Personally, I think everyone should give the EC/Pinco's UI a good try.

    After a good two week trial (and I mean a real, true effort) with Pinco's UI, anyone who still prefers the CC will in my opinion deserve, nay, command respect for his/her preference

    As for me, it's EC all the way. Every once in a great while I'll use the CC (with UOA) when I'm forced to use my little netbook (it almost looks like a real laptop :)) but I immediately miss the features found in the EC (more importantly, Pinco's UI). But I honestly don't care which client a player uses. I'm just happy that they're playing :)

    And back to the main topic:

    I couldn't agree more. Venders should always be stocked either in CC or in Pinco's with the containers switched to Legacy though I suspect that the CC is probably the best choice for vendor stocking.
     
  21. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    There is no difference between the two - I've looked at vendor bags, both my own and others, with the legacy mode in the EC and then in the CC, and they look the same.

    Really it's just a matter of EC players stocking their vendors and being lazy/not caring to take a few seconds to flip the view to legacy containers.
     
  22. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Meh, how about the laziness of CC players from upgrading to something more current in terms of technology and user interface?

    The argument can go both ways.
     
  23. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    I forgot to add my 2 cents about the accual topic = )

    Im sure the EC players who do this dont even realize it. When i made my first vendor in EC a friend looked at it and laughed at me in vent. I checked for myself with cc bags fixed it.
     
  24. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    May be old news, but I didn't know about it.

    Thanks Pixie, while it doesn't affect me, I'm sure it does help others.
     
  25. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Been a problem since the Third Dawn client.

    Not really... Third Dawn had a "2d zone" in the containers that you could identify by either crafting enough or looting enough to establish where it was (top left corner, same amount of area as 2d). I used Third Dawn all the time and could stock a vendor to look as if it were done in 2d without a problem. (not to mention Third Dawn had the Legacy backpacks as well)

    KR changed this in its version of legacy freeform by making it the bottom center of the area. The problem was that the placement differed between the two clients and how KR/EC handles dropping items into that area is also different.

    Of course the touchy placement issue may have been fixed in EC later on, but ever since they dropped the Legacy packs back to the postage stamp miniscule 2d versions, I simply don't use that format anymore. Closest I will use is "Legacy Gridless-Grid view" in Pinco's UI for best of both worlds.

    As for stocking my own vendor (when I do), posts like the original one in this thread makes me NOT want to consider 2d players due to the attitude put forward. I feel no want, need, or desire to cater to that type of attitude, and if that IS the prevalent attitude of 2d players, then I don't need them as customers.
     
  26. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    this
     
  27. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    It's not just Pinco's UI that has Legacy Containers, it just makes the process of fiddling with them easier. Which is not to say Pincos isn't recommended, because it is, highly! However I think it shows the ignorance of the original poster when she apparently isn't aware that Legacy containers have been an option in the default EC for ages... The problem is with using that clients style, because items are limited to a tiny amount of space (especially bookcases which are just pathetic), have a fair amount of dead space around the borders, and stack when you want them to appear separately. It's not that EC users aren't familiar with Legacy containers, but unless you're a masochist, it's an enormous amount of extra effort to get lesser results.

    Incidentally my own vendor is always stacked in CC, as is my slowly improving player lore library... but I wish it didn't have to be. Give CC users better containers I say...
     
  28. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    There are aspects of EC I like, hell, love. But the main reason I'm not playing it is because the graphics are an utter attrocity. There are a few other reasons too, but if the graphics didn't look as bad as they do then I'm sure I could get over them.

    So, it's the CC for me or nothing. CC it is.
     
  29. Who the hell is Pinco and why do I need to go, again, to other places to make something work in UO?

    Does Pinco have a fix for the way bodies fall in EC? Another year and the EC will be ready to play. Once it is out of BETA im in! Woohoo.
     
  30. grig_since98

    grig_since98 Guest

    As mentioned earlier in the post, it is quite easy to switch to legacy containers to ensure that customers can see your merchandise. I play with EC, but I always check the pack in legacy to ensure that all the merchandise is arranged the way I want it. With experience, you can estimate where something in grid will show up in legacy, but its always best to check.

    Regardless of how I or others feel about CC, most players apparently use CC, so if you're selling something, you have a responsibility to accomodate that.

    I would like to thank EvilPixie for bringing this up. I may not agree with you on the CC/EC comparison, but everyone needs to know because I wouldn't have known except that I was curious how the grid backpack translated to the legacy. A new player downloading the EC would have no reason to suspect something was wrong. It did indeed make a several million gold difference to me.

    This is where I would like to point out how ridiculous it is to have two clients for a game. As a barrier of entry to new players, I think it exceeds "dated" graphics by far ( Just look at runescape with its "dated" graphics ). I'll be as nice as possible ( since my customers are apparently CC users), but it is something that frustrates me to no end.

    First off, I don't like the implication that the EC is for new players or "kids". This shows up in a lot of criticism of the EC ( though certainly not all ). I have played this game since 1998, and when I came back last year after a long hiatus, I installed the EC. I didn't like certain aspects of the EC, but after installing the PincoUI I can't imagine going back to CC. Sure, I probably shouldn't need a mod to play the game, but with CC you are pretty much going to "need" UOA. I don't have to pay for PincoUI. I admit, the grid containers of EC take some immersion out of the game. When I went to other MMOs from UO, I always was expecting a picture of a backpack when I opened my inventory, and was always dissapointed. Pinco handles this well with hybrid containers that have the function of a grid, but the look of the classic GUMPs. Frankly though, I use the EC grid because of functionality now.

    I don't understand the complaint about EC graphics. Sure, there are some odd glitches with hair and the paperdoll, but that can be fixed. The graphics are NOT true 3d. The game is played in the same isometric perspective, with many of the same graphics for terrain. What is so bad about EC graphics? I was impressed with some of them. For instance, the robes on the paperdoll were particularly good I thought. It looks almost as if I could reach out and touch them and feel the texture of the linen. Your characters can actually have different faces now.

    To continue the graphics argument, were the CC graphics ever that good? I remember that one of the surprises I had when I played UO for the first time in '98 was that to me the paperdoll looked ugly and stilted. I remember thinking " Wow, I think the paperdoll in Serpent Isle looked a lot better than this regardless of it having supposedly higher resolution". The female paperdoll CC is decent, I believe, but I always felt the male model was "weedy". Keep in mind that the comparison I used was 5 or 6 years before UO.

    In my opinion, gameplay trumps graphics any time. However, if graphics "don't matter", as is often stated, then there are some very good MUDs out there to play that have as many or more gameplay options than UO. I also don't believe that I should be playing a "retro" game. When I load up U6 in dosbox, or play a game that is intentionally designed as a traditional or retro game ( i.e. Avernum by Spiderweb Software, or even Darwinia), I know what to expect. I don't think UO should be presented as a "retro" game. I think it has all the features someone could want in a modern MMO, it just needs graphics to match. No one is expecting UO to be a first person 3d view, which is probably technically impossible, but it isn't unreasonable to have crisp, high resolution, scalable graphics.

    I'm sorry but most of the reasons I read for continuing the use of CC are pretty weak. Ultimately, most of the arguments, when stripped of the rationalizations, boil down to either nostalgia or familiarity. Yes, the EC is different. Life changes. EA could ditch the EC and make every server pre UOR tomorrow, but it still would not be the UO we played in the late 90's. That is gone forever, and we have to move on. Sure, I believe that some of the changes that have occured in the last 10 years should not have happened or should have been done differently. That doesn't justify stagnating UO in 1999. Do you really want life to be that boring and unchanging?

    I'm sorry but I've never seen such rampant conservatism and prosaic-ism ( Is that a word?) as in UO. I believe that nostalgia certainly has its place in UO, as well as life, and that a future single client should acommodate the desires of CC users as much as possible. Some responsibility does reside, however, with CC users who need to accept that some things have to change and there is no reason for the game to stagnate forever.
     
  31. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I take it you don't play with UO Assist?
     
  32. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Barok
    Of course, if all the lazy dinosaurs who insist on using the clunky "classic" client would join the rest of the world in the twentyfirst century....

    Take a whirl around Conan for a week and learn what a dinosaur the EC client really is.
     
  33. grig_since98

    grig_since98 Guest

    Well, I don't think there is any reason to use loaded language like that, but I think there are more good reasons for adopting the EC than otherwise, and I think the CC is ultimately hurting UO.
     
  34. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Pinco is a UO Modder. He likes the artwork of the classic client and the functionality of the enhanced client.

    More impressive is that Pinco has volunteered his time and his skills to work towards making an EC that we CC users are willing & able to use.

    You can find, and download Pinco's UI right here:- Helpful Linkie to Pinco's UI
     
  35. Lord Raven

    Lord Raven Seasoned Veteran
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    I already replied to this post on the Atlantic Forum, this is like playing Wack-A-Mole.

    I've included my previous reply below... now to add a couple of things to the discussion...

    How is it that people who freely admit to rarely using the EC complain so much about it? Yes, you are going to have difficulty using a new client if you only invest a small fraction of your time to trying to learn it. To all the Classic Client folk, really think about how long you have played using that client. Did you apply even 1/10th of the effort to the EC?

    For those folks who use UOAssist and claim the Classic Client is best... if it's so good, then why do you use a third party program? You're not really using the Classic Client, you're using a modified/enhanced version.

    I play UO on two laptops. One is too old to run the Enhanced Client while fighting, it just lags too much. So I understand the frustration of people that have older computers that just can't run the EC. But face it... sooner or later ALL computers become obsolete and by keeping UO so that it always caters to the lowest common denominator it harms the game. If your computer is so old that you can't run the EC, your OS is probably no longer supported by Windows.

    Are you driving around in a steam powered car? Do you heat your house with a coal furnace?

    My newer laptop has modest specs and runs the Enhanced Client very well. I fight, shop in Luna (one of the laggiest things I do), craft and everything else. I love it. Hotbar macros are the cat's meow! I no longer have to move all my runebooks around in my pack whenever I need to find something that got buried.

    If EA tracks server logons to determine what portion of their users still "prefer" the Classic Client then unfortunately they get to count me as I often switch between clients. I would rather be counted as an Enhanced Client user and when the Classic Client finally goes away, I'll just retire my oldest computer.



    Original reply:
    Personally, my life would be a LOT easier if everyone used the EC for shopping. I could just drop stuff on the vendor, knowing that anyone looking at it in the Enhanced Client would see everything neatly arranged.
    Instead I'm stuck with those obsolete pouches and having to try and arrange everything so it fits just right.

    I'm almost tempted to create an EC Only vendor that has deals at 10-20% lower than my other vendors just to reward those shoppers that make my life easier!
     
  36. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    Yep, just what we need... another EC vs. CC thread. Brings so much light and information to the subject.. or not. :wall:
     
  37. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    You can thank the OP with their tone and start of their post Amber.
     
  38. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Unless they removed it, I'm pretty sure EC with no mods has an option to use classic containers which should remove this problem.
     
  39. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    <laughs> Agreed. I just installed Pincos UI last night and actually had fun in the EC! The movement is still troublesome to my ancient eyeballs, but the CC is ready when I need it.

    Good UI mod and impressive as heck!
     
  40. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    The OP stated his biases up front, pointed out an incompatibility between the two clients, and offered a work around of sorts. Others have offered other work arounds.

    So yeah, I think the original intent of the thread got covered. Back and forth over which client is superior is pointless because it seems to come down subjective assessments.

    Two important ideas: The dev team has stated they will continue to support both for the time being. Second, the EC must win over those that don't support it on the basis of it's strengths. No amount of forum bombast is likely to convince anyone one way or the other.
     
  41. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    This is correct
     
  42. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Excepting, of course, that the Classic Containers in the EC behave differently -- and thus align differently -- than the ones from the Classic Client. It doesn't really solve the problem, but it is a bit more of a solution than grid mode.
     
  43. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    A Public Service Announcement- Those using the old classic client will not be able to shop at the Superior Vendor Malls that use the enhanced client.

    That's right, it's a club and you need membership if you want to shop at our most awesome vendors. If you're looking for goods, we have them but you can only buy them if you're using the enhanced client and have its' Superior Grid that will allow you to shop easily.

    We do not apologize or cater to or baby you like the people at Mythic do. We have decided as players that if you don't wish to join us in the EC, then to bad! When we look at our vendors they look awesome. If you don't see the same thing, it's not our problem.

    There is no way i'm going to log in and out or switch modes or cater to a group of people who are not even willing to try something new that might be UO's only chance or make a self sacrifice to UO's future.

    I have been selling imbued items that go in Luna for over 50 mill for 7,777 gp. I don't care that a classic user can't find it on my vendor. That's their problem.

    This has been The Real Service Announcement. Thank You.
     
  44. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    ^^^^1,000,000 + This^^^^
     
  45. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    Not to mention, when you do Treasure Maps in the EC all the good stuff is automatically placed at the top of the grid in the pack --- so no more digging through all the junk in the CC! And you can see everything in one shot anyway!
     
  46. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    I have nothing against modern graphics. My gaming rig is a beast and I play a wide range of brand new games just as much as UO. But EC isn't modern. It looks terrible.

    I'm not saying CC has better graphics, just grahics I can put up with since I've played them for 8+ years.
     
  47. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    Please note:

    This post was about helping people with their vendors... not about client issues.

    I wish the staff would fix the issue on both so no one has this problem... but it would be one fix requestion in 30 I have on my list right now.

    All I do know is that as good places to shop dry up... its extra frustrating when I cant reach into 1/10 of the goods on offer because everything is a big ole mess and not at the fault of the vendor owner.
     
  48. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This post was about helping people with their vendors... not about client issues.

    Then don't start it as an anti-client diatribe.
     
  49. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    Trouble with some people is you say the sky is blue... they say its green. No matter what... this was about vendors and not about anything else. I dont play EC, I dont like EC, I refuse to play EC... so whatever. Why not question the fact I dont wake up on the left side of the bed everyday. Just pointless to try and help people that clearly know everything already.
     
  50. Lord Raven

    Lord Raven Seasoned Veteran
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    I do appreciate the fact that you were trying to be helpful. But you should take a second before clicking "submit" and re-read your post.

    You started this thread by bashing the Enhanced Client... even your title puts "enhanced" in quotations. I get so tired of hearing people on these forums complain and complain. If you have something positive to say, just leave it at that. (Your message about the vendors was positive and helpful.)

    You should also acknowledge that anyone that prefers the EC and uses it exclusively actually has to go through extra work to stock vendors so that those using the Classic Client can view the vendor pouch contents.

    I've mentioned before that I use both clients. One reason I still use the classic client is to stock my vendors so that "classic" folks can see the items. Sure, it's extra work but it's good for sales. Well, I'm guessing it's good for sales since my vendors don't generate sales reports that tell me what clients my customers use. (Sales reports are another feature I'd like to see added to vendors. FarmVille provides them for my winery and bakery).

    I went through the same thing with the 3D client. (3D Client and Enhanced Client are not the same thing.)

    So, thanks for the info. Maybe someday the Enhanced Client will be good enough for everyone, even the "Classic" client users.