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A purely moral/ethical debate re: Money Trading now

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am pondering an idea to decide which side of the coin I agree with most, so I thought I'd throw this question out to see how people feel about it.

    I was thinking how in EA Land hubby and I have more money than we really need there since we like playing in TC3 better. So I was thinking about trying to get some of my EA Land money traded over to TC3, but then I came to the question regarding the economy. Cash out isn't going to be enabled in TC3 but it will be for EA Land, so I'd be sending my money from where I could cash out out where I couldn't, however the person I am trading with would then have that amount of simoleans that they could potentially save up to sell back to EA along with whatever he or she managed to save up. Resulting in EA ending up having to pay out more money to sims than they really need to based on what the sims actually earn themselves.....so now I'm kinda like blech [​IMG] not sure what to think or do. Does anybody who is gung-ho for the new economy we have now have any problem with money trading back and forth between EA Land and TC3, in either direction? I know EA's stance has always been that they won't bust people for it but that they assume no liability for anything that happens during a transaction between two sims, which basically means don't go crying to them if you get scammed, watch your own back. But now that RL cash is about to become involved with it, I really wonder if EA's stance on it won't change drastically, or maybe it already has. I'm going to ask in the Town Hall ASAP about it, but I just thought I'd get an idea of what some of the proponents of the new economy's take on it was.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Back in beta my roomie was one of the original money traders, maybe even the first. I know he was the first one I heard of doing it anyway lol. At the time we thought, oh cool a way to get extra cash flow! Of course sometimes we lost money but overall we made out pretty good.

    Not long after that folks started to complain about such practices, very loudly calling participants cheaters and the like. We didnt really think of it as cheating because it was an even trade of funds. Of course eventually traders started to charge a fee for the service and it became acceptable. I built up a huge lack of trust in traders over the years and eventually only traded with players I knew well.

    You pose an excellent question in todays current ecomony. I'm not 100% sure how I feel about this. You make some excellent points. My first instinct is to be against it, as I find myself against other types of player to player simolean (or whatever) sales. I will have to think this over some. It will be intersting to see what the devs have to say about it. I dont think they could stop it. But we do have to keep in mind that they keep track of every transaction. I still dont think its cheating, but it could very well cause the "economy" to become futher imbalanced as we have seen with stores. Interesting topic.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What type of imbalance would that cause? The money would still stay EALand. Yes there is a chance that they may cash but who's to say that CBrewton would not have cashed? Which means that the transaction would have happened anyway. The way I see it the money hasn't gone anywhere, It still resides in EALand.

    The chances of using the cash-out option is still there but I think for the most part the balance would not be offset. If you think about in a way that when creating this particular feature, in their minds, cashouts are to be expected. So they may had "tweaked" the economy to accomodate these transactions.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What type of imbalance would that cause? The money would still stay EALand. Yes there is a chance that they may cash but who's to say that CBrewton would not have cashed? Which means that the transaction would have happened anyway. The way I see it the money hasn't gone anywhere, It still resides in EALand.

    The chances of using the cash-out option is still there but I think for the most part the balance would not be offset. If you think about in a way that when creating this particular feature, in their minds, cashouts are to be expected. So they may had "tweaked" the economy to accomodate these transactions.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You're missing the point. We are talking about transferring money not between avatars in the SAME city but between EA Land and TC3, so no, the money would not still reside in the same city that it came from, and would imbalance the economy albeit on a very small scale per person probably, but if alot of people do it that adds up pretty quickly to a pretty big imbalance, hence the moral/ethical dilemma. Some players don't care about the purities of the economies so for them the answer is simple.....do whatever you want to do or whatever will make you come out ahead. But for some the issue is bigger because we are starting to look ahead to what making this a common practice will cause.

    I hope Lee or Greg is in the Town Hall while I am there, and I hope that if they havent' already considered this as a possible thwart mechanism or maybe even borderline exploit that they will after it's brought up, before it becomes an issue. It's always easier to prevent something from happening than it is to clean up the mess when it happens. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure......or, if you're a Steel Magnolias fan "An ounce of pretension is worth a pound of manur" LMAO

    OK, now I'm getting slap happy....going to bed, be back in 6-7 hours, have a good morning in game all [​IMG]
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes I do get the point that you are making. This is how I see the transaction going:

    Sims A and A1 - TC3
    Sims B and B1 - EAL

    Sim A TC3 has 100k
    Sim B EAL also has 100k
    Sim A gives to Sim B1 100k
    Sim B gives to Sim A1 100k.

    So in TC3 money changed hands from A -&gt; B1 (mind you the money is STILL in TC3)
    And in EAL money changed hands from B -&gt; A1 (again mind you the money is STILL in EAL)

    That would be the only way it could work because there is no "moving" from TC3 &lt;-&gt; EAL.

    Where did you get the idea that the sims could move between cities?
     
  6. vapd3317

    vapd3317 Guest

    I have traded money in the past between cities also, and in the past it was possible to transfer from one city to another. However, that is not a possibility now as you cannot move a sim from TC3 into EAland with cash. the trade would be such as this;

    Both players (assuming only two are involved) have a sim in each city.

    Player 1 has sims A in EA land and B in TC3

    Player 2 has sims A in EA land and B in TC3

    Player 1 sim A in EA land receives cash from player 2 sim A in EA land.

    Player 1 sim B in TC3 then gives player 2 sim B in TC3 the same amount of cash.

    There is no transfer of money between cities at all. The transfer is simply from one sim to another in exchange for the same transfer that took place in the previous city.

    This is no different than giving a friend sim all of your possessions and cash to hold, while you delete your sim to recreate another, and then getting back all of your previous possessions and cash from your friend.

    this will not in any way shape or form affect the current money or object balance that is in the city.
     
  7. vapd3317

    vapd3317 Guest

    LOL DAMN you PB....I wasn't quick enough [​IMG]
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LMAO. I just type faster! [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    There is no transfer of money between cities at all. The transfer is simply from one sim to another in exchange for the same transfer that took place in the previous city.

    This is no different than giving a friend sim all of your possessions and cash to hold, while you delete your sim to recreate another, and then getting back all of your previous possessions and cash from your friend.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Very well put!!!
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I get what you guys are saying. Still thinking it over. Starting to be less bothered by it. [​IMG]
     
  11. <blockquote><hr>

    I have traded money in the past between cities also, and in the past it was possible to transfer from one city to another. However, that is not a possibility now as you cannot move a sim from TC3 into EAland with cash. the trade would be such as this;

    Both players (assuming only two are involved) have a sim in each city.

    Player 1 has sims A in EA land and B in TC3

    Player 2 has sims A in EA land and B in TC3

    Player 1 sim A in EA land receives cash from player 2 sim A in EA land.

    Player 1 sim B in TC3 then gives player 2 sim B in TC3 the same amount of cash.

    There is no transfer of money between cities at all. The transfer is simply from one sim to another in exchange for the same transfer that took place in the previous city.

    This is no different than giving a friend sim all of your possessions and cash to hold, while you delete your sim to recreate another, and then getting back all of your previous possessions and cash from your friend.

    this will not in any way shape or form affect the current money or object balance that is in the city.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Your right now that I think about it. The money really wouldn't go anywhere except to change hands in the current city its in.
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    I am pondering an idea to decide which side of the coin I agree with most, so I thought I'd throw this question out to see how people feel about it.

    I was thinking how in EA Land hubby and I have more money than we really need there since we like playing in TC3 better. So I was thinking about trying to get some of my EA Land money traded over to TC3, but then I came to the question regarding the economy. Cash out isn't going to be enabled in TC3 but it will be for EA Land, so I'd be sending my money from where I could cash out out where I couldn't, however the person I am trading with would then have that amount of simoleans that they could potentially save up to sell back to EA along with whatever he or she managed to save up. Resulting in EA ending up having to pay out more money to sims than they really need to based on what the sims actually earn themselves.....so now I'm kinda like blech [​IMG] not sure what to think or do. Does anybody who is gung-ho for the new economy we have now have any problem with money trading back and forth between EA Land and TC3, in either direction? I know EA's stance has always been that they won't bust people for it but that they assume no liability for anything that happens during a transaction between two sims, which basically means don't go crying to them if you get scammed, watch your own back. But now that RL cash is about to become involved with it, I really wonder if EA's stance on it won't change drastically, or maybe it already has. I'm going to ask in the Town Hall ASAP about it, but I just thought I'd get an idea of what some of the proponents of the new economy's take on it was.

    Thoughts?

    [/ QUOTE ]



    How can this be done? There is no possible way of getting money from EA land and moving it over to TC3. It can only stay in its current city, right? Unless something changed that i'm not aware of.
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    How can this be done? There is no possible way of getting money from EA land and moving it over to TC3. It can only stay in its current city, right? Unless something changed that i'm not aware of.

    [/ QUOTE ]You guys are missing the point. CBrewton's not talking about moving her Sims anywhere. What she's saying is that she has Sims in both EA-Land and TC3. Since she only plays in TC3, she has money accumulating in EA-Land from the weekly bonuses that she's not using. To transfer her money to TC3, she would trade her money in EA-Land to another person's (a money trader's) EA-Land Sim. This other person also has another Sim in TC3 who has enough money to trade the exact amount (maybe minus a transfer fee) to CBrewton's TC3 Sim. Nobody moved any Sims anywhere. She just traded money to someone in EA-Land who gave it back to her in TC3. Before we had the ability to move Sims from city to city, using money traders in this fashion was basically the only way to move money from city to city.

    Back to the topic, I think once cash out in EA-Land is enabled, you could accomplish the same thing yourself by cashing your EA-Land money out to RL funds and then cashing it back into TC3. This would definitely overcome the moral/ethical issues because basically EA is doing the transfer. If the two economies aren't the same, they should give you a different exchange rate for the two cities that would compensate for it and not unbalance either economy.
     
  14. I see your point CB. You'd need to bring this up with Greg or Lee. Heck, they have ATMs... so why not a personal bank account for each avatar? That way we could make a deposit, and then withdraw in TC3? Although, seeing that we cannot move into TC3, as it is, ahem, a 'virgin' test environment, economy included, I can't see us being able to 'officially' transfer money in there...

    Nope, the only way would be for you to find a trusted money trader. PM me hun - I've got crap-loads of money in TC3.... [​IMG]
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>


    Back to the topic, I think once cash out in EA-Land is enabled, you could accomplish the same thing yourself by cashing your EA-Land money out to RL funds and then cashing it back into TC3. This would definitely overcome the moral/ethical issues because basically EA is doing the transfer. If the two economies aren't the same, they should give you a different exchange rate for the two cities that would compensate for it and not unbalance either economy.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    JimDog is right, although I see nothing ethically wrong in using a money trader since you are really not taking money out of the EA Land money pool. However if you wait for EA's cash out you will be paying EA the transfer fee twice. One time to for cashing out of EA Land and secondly for taking that cash and buying your simoleans from the atm in TC3. Using EA's atms creates more revenue for them which is good for the game. It's really up to you but I'm sure you would get a better deal from a trader (if you can trust them).
     
  16. Yep, think the 'terminology' adds to the confusion. Let's keep simply to 'money trading' between cities and not drag in the 'money guys' on this one because that's another subject.

    First off, there's absolutely nothing going between the cities. Money is not leaving EAland and going to TC3 or the other way around.

    Basically, you are giving your excess money in one city to a player that will give you their money in the other city.

    I'd have to deal with someone I really really trusted because you may never see that money or player again.

    But no, I don't think there is anything wrong in that type of trade. That's pretty much how it's been done all along isn't it?

    It's kinda like this....

    "Hey somebody here in MF, do you have a sim in AV that has 100k?....
    Yeah I do&gt;. If I give you 100k here in MF can you give 100k to my sim in AV?"

    I think it's rather inventive that players figure out how to move their money and objects around before the 'move' was enabled. And hey? We were told to find ways to create businesses and that's what some people did.

    (I hope TPTB decide to NOT buy Sim Money back from players.)
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    One issue I see with this is free accounts - they have unrestricted play in TC3 and can make money there, however they cannot make money in EA-Land by conventional means.

    If people were to start trading across the servers and giving large sums of money to free players in EA-Land in exchange for their money in TC3, there would not be so much incentive for them to subscribe. This means less revenue for EA. This means bad news for the game in general.

    Polly
     
  18. vapd3317

    vapd3317 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    One issue I see with this is free accounts - they have unrestricted play in TC3 and can make money there, however they cannot make money in EA-Land by conventional means.

    If people were to start trading across the servers and giving large sums of money to free players in EA-Land in exchange for their money in TC3, there would not be so much incentive for them to subscribe. This means less revenue for EA. This means bad news for the game in general.

    Polly

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Now THAT makes sense. Free players should not be able to take part in the cash out feature. They pay nothing to play, and should not be able to receive 100% profit by performing cash out.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    From everything I have read, TC3 will never be able to take part in the cash out feature if/when it comes. So this is a non-issue. I just hope it is tested before being brought in so that free accounts can't cash out.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Free players in EA-Land will be able to cash out but only as much as they have cashed in : From the EA-Land website

    Limitations to Free Players in EA-Land

    <u>Cash-out</u>

    When cash-out is enabled, Free players will be able to cash-out has much money than they cash-in, but to be able to cash-out more, they will need to be subscribers.


    So, with people offering money trades across servers - free players could cash in in EA-Land, spend it all, trade their money in TC3 for their money in EA-Land and then cash out.

    Not to mention the danger or being scammed by trading money via an unreliable/unknown source.

    For many years people have been scammed - via cross city money/item trades, property trades. The team are working hard to erradicate scammers and giving us means to protect ourselves - the secure housedeed being an example.

    Players finding alternative ways to bypass the systems in place for their own benefit and quick wins will continue to give scammers a market for scamming and more importantly damage the potential revenue that EA can make. And the more money that EA can make, the more chance we have of a longterm future for this game we play.

    I don't recommend cross server trades.

    Just my twopence worth.

    Polly
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Honestly theres nothing to debate and nothing not moral or unethical about it. Theres no change to either cities economy.

    Why? Because say CB uses cash trader to trade 100k from EAL to TC3. In both cities the cash is already there. it is simply changing sims is all. It is not making either city more or less cash its staying exactly the same. That is unless of course the cash out is ever implemented, which i seriously doubt we'll ever see it in game and again still it makes zero difference because whats the difference if say CB or the cash trader cashed out the cash the result is the same regardless.

    From what i've seen there are far more sims trying to trade out of TC3 and into EAL then the opposite.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I don't recommend cross server trades.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    EA just recently banned a very well known money trader who took to scamming on the side. Even someone with a "name" in the trading industry could rip you off.

    I don't think its morally or ethically wrong to trade. But I do think that when that person loses their money to a scam they should spare us all the sob story hoping that EA will do something about a situation they probably don't even really support.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good idea, let EA do the transfers for you. There are a lot of scammers out there.
     
  24. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Guest

    There is no such thing as a moral/ethical debate about what you can or cannot do in an online game. The morals and ethics of the game are made into law by the game code, and supplemented by the RoC/ToS. It's either against the rules to do cross city money trades, or it isn't.

    Like many other things some of our more slow witted players never could accept, cross city money trades aren't, and never have been, a violation.

    Anybody who tells you it is immoral/unethical is simply making up their own rules, and should be ignored.

    End of debate.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Yes I do get the point that you are making. This is how I see the transaction going:

    Sims A and A1 - TC3
    Sims B and B1 - EAL

    Sim A TC3 has 100k
    Sim B EAL also has 100k
    Sim A gives to Sim B1 100k
    Sim B gives to Sim A1 100k.

    So in TC3 money changed hands from A -&gt; B1 (mind you the money is STILL in TC3)
    And in EAL money changed hands from B -&gt; A1 (again mind you the money is STILL in EAL)

    That would be the only way it could work because there is no "moving" from TC3 &lt;-&gt; EAL.

    Where did you get the idea that the sims could move between cities?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    NO PB, I did not say anything about SIMS moving between cities, I am talking about MONEY trading as we have always done *that* over the last 5 years.

    Sim A has 2 sims, 1 in EA Land one in TC3 but all their money is in EA Land

    Sim B has 2 sims also 1 in EA Land and one in TC3 but all *their* money is in TC3.

    So Sims A and B trade their money so that now Sim A has the money in TC3 where they want it and Sim B has it in EA Land where *they* want it, so the money has totally switched cities....do you see NOW what I am talking about? [​IMG]
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    One issue I see with this is free accounts - they have unrestricted play in TC3 and can make money there, however they cannot make money in EA-Land by conventional means.

    If people were to start trading across the servers and giving large sums of money to free players in EA-Land in exchange for their money in TC3, there would not be so much incentive for them to subscribe. This means less revenue for EA. This means bad news for the game in general.

    Polly

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's a very good point, and one *strike* against doing it in my own mind.....it's looking more and more like ethically this just would not be a good thing to do even though realistically it would be nice to be able to have that money toward my goals in TC3. Still gathering input on it though and still have to talk to the devs about it.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    There is no such thing as a moral/ethical debate about what you can or cannot do in an online game. The morals and ethics of the game are made into law by the game code, and supplemented by the RoC/ToS. It's either against the rules to do cross city money trades, or it isn't.

    Like many other things some of our more slow witted players never could accept, cross city money trades aren't, and never have been, a violation.

    Anybody who tells you it is immoral/unethical is simply making up their own rules, and should be ignored.

    End of debate.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I respect that opinion as your own right to have it but there have been some good points brought up as far as at LEAST making sure that you are dealing with a premium player and *not* a free player if you're gonna go ahead with it. I still haven't decided if I'm going to or not......so far I'm seeing more positives for myself but more negatives for the overall health of the game.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is not going to be a problem, since no new money is generated and it is contained on the server it originated. It is simply traded amongst players.
     
  29. <blockquote><hr>

    This is not going to be a problem, since no new money is generated and it is contained on the server it originated. It is simply traded amongst players.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah I don't see a problem with it unless you get scammed, so just be careful who you trade with.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Yes I do get the point that you are making. This is how I see the transaction going:

    Sims A and A1 - TC3
    Sims B and B1 - EAL

    Sim A TC3 has 100k
    Sim B EAL also has 100k
    Sim A gives to Sim B1 100k
    Sim B gives to Sim A1 100k.

    So in TC3 money changed hands from A -&gt; B1 (mind you the money is STILL in TC3)
    And in EAL money changed hands from B -&gt; A1 (again mind you the money is STILL in EAL)

    That would be the only way it could work because there is no "moving" from TC3 &lt;-&gt; EAL.

    Where did you get the idea that the sims could move between cities?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    NO PB, I did not say anything about SIMS moving between cities, I am talking about MONEY trading as we have always done *that* over the last 5 years.

    Sim A has 2 sims, 1 in EA Land one in TC3 but all their money is in EA Land

    Sim B has 2 sims also 1 in EA Land and one in TC3 but all *their* money is in TC3.

    So Sims A and B trade their money so that now Sim A has the money in TC3 where they want it and Sim B has it in EA Land where *they* want it, so the money has totally switched cities....do you see NOW what I am talking about? [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Carrie, read PB's again, that is correct. No actual money goes between cities at all.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Yes I do get the point that you are making. This is how I see the transaction going:

    Sims A and A1 - TC3
    Sims B and B1 - EAL

    Sim A TC3 has 100k
    Sim B EAL also has 100k
    Sim A gives to Sim B1 100k
    Sim B gives to Sim A1 100k.

    So in TC3 money changed hands from A -&gt; B1 (mind you the money is STILL in TC3)
    And in EAL money changed hands from B -&gt; A1 (again mind you the money is STILL in EAL)

    That would be the only way it could work because there is no "moving" from TC3 &lt;-&gt; EAL.

    Where did you get the idea that the sims could move between cities?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    NO PB, I did not say anything about SIMS moving between cities, I am talking about MONEY trading as we have always done *that* over the last 5 years.

    Sim A has 2 sims, 1 in EA Land one in TC3 but all their money is in EA Land

    Sim B has 2 sims also 1 in EA Land and one in TC3 but all *their* money is in TC3.

    So Sims A and B trade their money so that now Sim A has the money in TC3 where they want it and Sim B has it in EA Land where *they* want it, so the money has totally switched cities....do you see NOW what I am talking about? [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Carrie, read PB's again, that is correct. No actual money goes between cities at all.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not in that situation, but in a situation like mine it would, because of the cash-in/cash-out issue. If I were to give my EA Land money to another player, then that player would have 1500 (example) simoleans to cash out potentially where he wouldn't have otherwise. So the economy wouldn't be affected on my side since my money is going to the city where there is no cash out, but it would be on his side because he'd have that extra money to cash out whereas if I kept it there I would not cash it out. That leads to a potential loss of revenue having to pay players more RL money when it changes hands from a person who wouldn't cash it out to a person who would, and there's no way you can discern whether or not a player is gonna cash out even if you try because if you specify that you only want to trade with sims who don't intend to use cash out, then there's nothing to stop a player from just lying about it to get your simoleans and then turn around and cash out after they said they weren't gonna. If there was more of an 'honor system' in the game then it might work, but based on the reality such that it is, there's only a few people I'd trust to do or not do what they say they are going to do or not do. I also know that there's alot of people who feel cash out will never happen so it ought to be a moot point, but until it is said by the devs that they have cancelled their plans to implement it, then that still has to be a factor in the decision-making process for anybody trying to decide whether or not to do this in the long-term. Looking forward to Wednesday when I can approach the devs about it directly and see if they are going to alter their 'we don't care as long as you don't ***** about getting scammed if it happens' stance. That too will weigh heavily on whether or not it is going to be acceptable to do it in the new game or not.
     
  32. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    How can this be done? There is no possible way of getting money from EA land and moving it over to TC3. It can only stay in its current city, right? Unless something changed that i'm not aware of.

    [/ QUOTE ]You guys are missing the point. CBrewton's not talking about moving her Sims anywhere. What she's saying is that she has Sims in both EA-Land and TC3. Since she only plays in TC3, she has money accumulating in EA-Land from the weekly bonuses that she's not using. To transfer her money to TC3, she would trade her money in EA-Land to another person's (a money trader's) EA-Land Sim. This other person also has another Sim in TC3 who has enough money to trade the exact amount (maybe minus a transfer fee) to CBrewton's TC3 Sim. Nobody moved any Sims anywhere. She just traded money to someone in EA-Land who gave it back to her in TC3. Before we had the ability to move Sims from city to city, using money traders in this fashion was basically the only way to move money from city to city.

    Back to the topic, I think once cash out in EA-Land is enabled, you could accomplish the same thing yourself by cashing your EA-Land money out to RL funds and then cashing it back into TC3. This would definitely overcome the moral/ethical issues because basically EA is doing the transfer. If the two economies aren't the same, they should give you a different exchange rate for the two cities that would compensate for it and not unbalance either economy.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I know what your saying but....even though the money is traded among the avatars, the actually amount is not leaving the city. She is just going to recieve money that is already in TC3 but from another avatar. at least thats how I see it. You can't take money out of the cities right? I don't know, this is confusing unless you can make moves.
     
  33. <blockquote><hr>

    I see your point CB. You'd need to bring this up with Greg or Lee. Heck, they have ATMs... so why not a personal bank account for each avatar? That way we could make a deposit, and then withdraw in TC3? Although, seeing that we cannot move into TC3, as it is, ahem, a 'virgin' test environment, economy included, I can't see us being able to 'officially' transfer money in there...

    Nope, the only way would be for you to find a trusted money trader. PM me hun - I've got crap-loads of money in TC3.... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]


    This would be the only way that I see it could be done and change the economy. Either way I don't think it would be bad morally.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I see your point CB. You'd need to bring this up with Greg or Lee. Heck, they have ATMs... so why not a personal bank account for each avatar? That way we could make a deposit, and then withdraw in TC3? Although, seeing that we cannot move into TC3, as it is, ahem, a 'virgin' test environment, economy included, I can't see us being able to 'officially' transfer money in there...

    Nope, the only way would be for you to find a trusted money trader. PM me hun - I've got crap-loads of money in TC3.... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]


    This would be the only way that I see it could be done and change the economy. Either way I don't think it would be bad morally.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe not morally, but it seems to have some ethical implications based on conversations I've had as a result of this thread through PMs and in-game. There seems to be strong feelings on both sides, so it bears giving it alot of thought before going ahead with it rather than just doing it and dealing with the consequences if and when they happen.

    Really if I can just start finding more consistent skill speeds it will be a moot point anyway because once my TC3 code team is at 63 points we'll be making money hand over fist anyway if I can get the hang of leading myself without the code cheat sheet. At that point I won't need to dip into funds in EA Land, I can just let them accumulate there until I'm ready to start skilling a set of sims there, as well.
     
  35. <blockquote><hr>

    Yep, think the 'terminology' adds to the confusion. Let's keep simply to 'money trading' between cities and not drag in the 'money guys' on this one because that's another subject.

    First off, there's absolutely nothing going between the cities. Money is not leaving EAland and going to TC3 or the other way around.

    Basically, you are giving your excess money in one city to a player that will give you their money in the other city.

    I'd have to deal with someone I really really trusted because you may never see that money or player again.

    But no, I don't think there is anything wrong in that type of trade. That's pretty much how it's been done all along isn't it?

    It's kinda like this....

    "Hey somebody here in MF, do you have a sim in AV that has 100k?....
    Yeah I do&gt;. If I give you 100k here in MF can you give 100k to my sim in AV?"

    I think it's rather inventive that players figure out how to move their money and objects around before the 'move' was enabled. And hey? We were told to find ways to create businesses and that's what some people did.

    (I hope TPTB decide to NOT buy Sim Money back from players.)

    [/ QUOTE ]


    That's what I was trying to say but couldn't spit it out right LOL. But with the ATM it could be done. Sell here and buy there or visa versa. Anyway we've done this many times in the production cities and I don't see anything wrong with it myself.
     
  36. <blockquote><hr>

    One issue I see with this is free accounts - they have unrestricted play in TC3 and can make money there, however they cannot make money in EA-Land by conventional means.

    If people were to start trading across the servers and giving large sums of money to free players in EA-Land in exchange for their money in TC3, there would not be so much incentive for them to subscribe. This means less revenue for EA. This means bad news for the game in general.

    Polly

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Ohhh I wasn't thinking about the free accounts. I don't think they should be able to use the cashout option either. That would just take EA back a few steps.
     
  37. PoindeJ

    PoindeJ Guest

    I don't see any major issues with it from an economic standpoint, as the two cities' economies are probably somewhat close - at least, no different than say Alphaville and Dan's Grove economies were back in the TSO days. I think Polly brings up a couple good points, though, about the free accounts vs. premium accounts in EA-Land and TC3. I think it really depends who that money is going to. It's probably better for that money to be actually used and spent on something rather than just sitting around on your sim, but to give it to a free player who just wants to avoid paying the subscription fee would defeat the purpose, I think. If you know a friend who plays in TC3 and doesn't need the money there, that would be okay, I think.

    Cashing out from EA-Land and back in through TC3 would be the easiest and best way to do it, if/when that becomes available.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dutch..... you hit the nail right on the head.... the money never left the city... it was just gave too someone else that has the money in another city that could give it back too too....lol
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I get what you guys are saying. Still thinking it over. Starting to be less bothered by it. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]I'm not greatly bothered by it either. As has been pointed out, the money is not physically going anywhere; it's just changing hands. An equal amount of currency has to be physically present in both cities in order for the "trade" to take place, so it's not like it can unbalance the economies at all.

    Unless someone can convince me otherwise, my stance will be that money trades between TC3 and EAL are harmless to the game.
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    One issue I see with this is free accounts - they have unrestricted play in TC3 and can make money there, however they cannot make money in EA-Land by conventional means.

    If people were to start trading across the servers and giving large sums of money to free players in EA-Land in exchange for their money in TC3, there would not be so much incentive for them to subscribe. This means less revenue for EA. This means bad news for the game in general.

    [/ QUOTE ]That's a good point. However, after giving it some thought, the same game dynamics that keep this from becoming a problem between subscribers also keeps it from being a problem even if free players are involved. The currency has to come from somewhere in order for it to be "traded" to a free player in EAL. Since I can't think of too many people altruistic enough to pizza their brains out in order to hand their earnings over to a free player in exchange for currency in TC3 (which, as I understand, is far easier to obtain), this means that the money traders would have to pad their "books" with currency bought from ATMs in order to have enough to trade to the free players in EAL.

    Either way, EA is getting their money.

    The only way I can see this becoming a problem is if third-party sellers become involved, as their currency source may be bot-derived.
     
  41. IndigoSpin

    IndigoSpin Guest

    <font color="purple"><blockquote><hr>

    If I were to give my EA Land money to another player, then that player would have 1500 (example) simoleans to cash out potentially where he wouldn't have otherwise. So the economy wouldn't be affected on my side since my money is going to the city where there is no cash out, but it would be on his side because he'd have that extra money to cash out whereas if I kept it there I would not cash it out.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It doesn't matter who has the money that is being cashed out. If you cashed out your original funds and the trader cashed out his or her original funds, EA will pay out the exact same amount as if they were paying a single trader with both funds. It doesn't matter whether or not you actually would cash out your own funds if you wanted to. Everyone has the same potential to use the cash-out feature.

    <blockquote><hr>

    That leads to a potential loss of revenue having to pay players more RL money when it changes hands from a person who wouldn't cash it out to a person who would ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    EA already makes more than enough money to cover payouts if you just think about the monthly fee, the exchange rate, the low payouts, and the recent frequent downtime that has kept people from earning more money. It's not your job to worry about whether or not they have enough to pay the bills. EA is a major gaming company that knows a thing or two about maximizing revenue. Your actions aren't going to suddenly plunge them into bankruptcy.

    As long as you aren't using an exploit or a bot or something of that nature, you aren't going to ruin anything by doing a money trade. There's no need to worry yourself so much. :p</font>
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So Sims A and B trade their money so that now Sim A has the money in TC3 where they want it and Sim B has it in EA Land where *they* want it, so the money has totally switched cities....do you see NOW what I am talking about?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Your words.

    Why are you even debating this? I will not affect the ecomomy.

    Also, the cash out rate will be a small %.