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A Steam release could be a huge mistake

Discussion in 'UHall' started by donjn, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    I have been doing a lot of reading by some players on Steam and other MMO forums. I have come to a conclusion based on my research.

    You can change the starting area and tutorials all you want. You can listen to the hardcore players who will continue to gladly pay $12.95 per month for this game. But you will NOT get new players (which is whole the point of a Steam release by the way) if the game continues to have a subscription fee of $12.95.

    There are way too many buy to play and free to play options out there. This is a very crowded market; not like 1997. UO is already going to be laughed at for that price point and how the in-game economy is a joke.
    This current fee does not protect you from all of the scripters and botters that have been running rampant for the past 10 years. The economy has tanked because of it. New players will have to spend hundreds of dollars to catch up, or alternatively have to bot/script for massive amounts of time.

    In short, if this is just for the sake of a Steam greenlight sales pitch, its going to fail massively.
     
  2. Spock's Beard

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    If you want to argue that subscription fees are dumb and F2P is the way to go, there's an argument to be made there. It's one pretty much everyone here is tired of having, but it is a valid argument.

    That's completely different from the question of Steam, however. At this point Steam is THE store for PC games, and if you're selling a PC game then it needs to be there. Period.
     
  3. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    They have nothing to loose from being on Steam but everything to gain.
     
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  4. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    I agree with this.
    I also think 12.95 is too much. I think it should be priced closer to 4.99. I'd probably have two accounts at that rate, instead of currently 0.
     
  5. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    Steam could only be a good thing for this game. The price will scare people off but some people will try it. Sure, the economy of this game is screwed up, but if they play long enough to realize how screwed up it is then by that time they are probably hooked. If only small % of people that try it stick around then that's better than what is happening right now. Right now I'm only seeing returning players. The only way to find out about this game is if someone that has played it tells someone else about it. That's about the most archaic advertising there is. They might as well be sending smoke signals. More people playing means more money put into the game for development. Steam is about the only way to get a game like this to the people. I buy all my games through steam. I haven't bought a game from a store for computer in nearly 4 years. A lot of people I play with don't use or know anything about steam but that just shows the age of the average player in UO.
    The rest of the world uses it.
     
  6. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Yes with Steam only good can come. I think we can all agree on that. And we can agree that there will be more new players than there are now.
    But I think this is a golden opportunity to re-brand this thing. Do a fresh start. Revamp things. Charge $5 per month or maybe give people the option to buy the VIP lifetime price of $50.
     
  7. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    Didn't we already try to get it on steam greenlight? Are the devs planning on doing it again or something?
     
  8. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    I agree that the price is just plain dumb. The price is the main reason I haven't opened a 3rd account. I think that 7.99 would be about right. That would probably encourage more players to open extra accounts and be more appealing to people that want to just try it out. I just hope that they do something soon. My shard is about dead. They need to pump some new blood into this corpse before it turns into dust.
     
  9. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    From what I understand they got the green light. They are just dragging their feet putting it on steam. I'm excited about the new expansion but Steam should have been top priority.
     
  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    "This game has been Greenlit by the Community!
    The community has shown their interest in this game. Valve has reached out to this developer to start moving things toward release on Steam."


    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=249850626

    Worth having a look though some of the comments there also.
     
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  11. PurplePotion

    PurplePotion Adventurer

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    From what I've read, I believe the new expansion is supposed to set things up for them to be able to go forward with the steam release. I could be fully wrong on this, so don't take it as gospel. I wholeheartedly agree about the price though. I think $7.99 or even $8.99 would be a lot more appealing to the new player. In regards to the economy. I don't think its broken. The game has been around for 17 years. People are going to have billions in gold at this point. I don't think that will scare people away. In reality any game you play that's been around a year or more is going to have people who have more money than you, more levels, and more items. I don't think most people except to start a game and instantly be able to compete with a lifer, or even someone who has been playing a year or two. I'd hope anyways. :confused:
     
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  12. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    Does anyone else feel like the fact that there are so many free servers kind of hurts the production shards? I mean what if EA reduced the rate to something more reasonable, and then tried some sort of legal recourse to shut down the free shards? I mean it sounds like a crappy thing to do, but if this were any other game, I really don't think that kind of thing would fly.
     
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  13. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Umm I don't get the price is too high arguement when the Collector edition of Assassin's Creed Sydicate is 119.99 exclusively from the Ubisoft Store. Before you say its a one time purchase trust me ,they have PLENTY of pixel crack to purchase. That is why my sister calls it Assassin's Crack LOL. Another one that is popular and more expensive The Sims 4 ...OMG Sims = PIXEL CRACK HELL! I play Sims 3 lol. I could never buy ALL that pixel crack. Anyway I think the price arguement is ridiculous consider the price of Xbox One games.
     
  14. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    EA is LAZY, period. If they'd started sooner they could have nailed them for copyright infringment under the Digital Millenium Rights Act. (It's the same legal recourse ViaCom(munists) used to shut all the Star Trek fan sites. I gaurentee if you starteed pirating Madden their legal dept. would own you ten was to Sunday!
     
  15. Dinurth

    Dinurth Visitor

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    While I will agree that the economy is insane right now and new players will have 0 chance to catch up to everyone who has been around for a decade+, but who cares? The people with billions of gold are on a different level IMO. I just recently returned and the game is completely viable still without having a ton of money (I barely have a mil to my name now, and I had 0 when I returned), but I have a decent house and all the equipment I need (the stuff I don't have I'm working on getting on my own!), you just have to work at what you want instead of buying it. Which for me, is a big part of the fun.

    I think a whole slew of new players that stick it out could reinvigorate the economy for those of us who don't have all the cash in the world. I'd love to be able to sell the greaters/majors I pick up to people who would actually use them. I say bring them on!
     
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  16. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    Yeah as far as the economy goes, it really isn't that hard to get the items you need. Especially if you join a guild and have a decent support group to help you out in farming. Many veteran players are happy to help new players with items to get them going. In some cases pretty nice stuff.
     
  17. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    I'm mostly saying the price is too high from the view of someone on steam trying to decide if they want to play or not. They get a description with some screenshots and probably a video that shows them a game that looks like its from the late 80s. Then a price per month that's as expensive as WoW or some other games like it. If you don't know anything about the game then the price is hard to swallow. Especially if you have to pay for the game + a monthly subscription. Assasians Creed is a major franchise with a new game out every year + commercials that they show on prime time TV. Its a name that people know with graphics that are nice. It doesn't matter that the last few of them have sucked, people still buy it. A lot of companys have gone free to play (but you get suckerd into buying pixel crack), or some of them like Destiny have an expansion or major content that you buy every few months. It may be more expensive in the long run than a pay by month but its perceived as a better value.
     
  18. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    They also get a 14 day free trial though.
     
  19. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    Except UO you don't have to buy it. Plus 14 day free trail...
     
  20. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    A 14 day free trial is good. Are they going to include all the expansions. When I Came back I was able to download the game but had to pay to upgrade my account to use everything (High Seas) and mabe something else I cant remember. The new expansion is free if you have an active account but do they have to buy each upgrade or is it all included by signing up on steam. I haven't seen anything about this. That's what I meant by buying the game + monthly fee.
     
  21. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    if someone does get uo: imagine u a new player, first gl on mythic account set up. u will probably have to go back and set up monthly, or 6 month payment ect. should be a next, next, next set up for everything u need to do. what do I do now? u make char probably with the wrong mix of skills. only got 1k, cant buy much skill lol. ill stop here, we need a organized text that really explains the game and how to really get started and an easy place to find, not talking about strats or uo.com. how do they know about these sites? where do I get this info? the help button with info is weak. if they don't know someone in game already, they may be lost. after they get a few things down and built up, they find out they cant do some stuff without paying for it, 19.99 here 10.99 there and another 19.99 over there ect. then just try to buy something in the origin store, lol. oh I can only buy one at a time or code doesn't work lol. say they follow the rules. they see all these people cheating and nothing being done about it, or are told they cant prove it lol. they find out they cant compete, do they stay in the game or join in on the cheating? need to really fix account management, store and the cheating before steam. now they have a char that can fight pretty well, they here about event and go. with all the multi chars at these events, they lag/ crash/die. they think, this game sucks. once they find out all the people using multi accounts, its may be good bye if not before this point. what do they think when the find out about the resource scripting, while they are working their but off. I could go on lol. now if it does go on steam and we do get more players, will they stay? will we just get more cheating/mutli accounts? what kind of posts will be put on steam about the game? fix game, bugs, improve classic/ec, make user friendly. could of been best game ever.
    making game free, will get endless supply of cheating/scripting. if caught and banned, just open new account have new guy done in day or 2, back to business.
     
  22. Sir Mastermind

    Sir Mastermind Adventurer
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    Wat?
     
  23. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    How would people know about these sites and what to do? The people that say they really really care about this game could take 10 minutes to post a how to on youtube. From there said people can post their links on the steam comment section. It's doesn't have to be as complicated as people want to make it out to be. Hell, you can upload to youtube from any smartphone.

    There's literally thousands of pay to win games out there. The nickel and dime stuff will pay off.

    Your last comment about scripters opening new accounts in a day or 2...they've already been doing that
     
  24. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    I disagree. They potentially may lose quite a bit. UO currently is not up to the modern standards as far as ease of entry or graphics, and that's putting it mildly. That's not so terrible right now because vast majority of players experienced it first many years ago when it was the norm. The very few new players that appear, have to actually research and specifically look for the game in order to join. Most of them kind of know what to expect.
    On Steam you are opening it up to a huge population of instant reward themepark kiddies. Majority of them will have nothing but complaints, starting from "gfx sux" to "so... what do I do?". All the bad publicity this will generate may shut off even the tiny trickle of new players that UO has now.
    Will it happen this way? I certainly hope not. But do not underestimate the damage that this may cause.
     
  25. codemonkey84

    codemonkey84 Adventurer

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    As a recently returned player i often asked myself how could this go better. For example there were several times where I got stuck just in the intro.... This is all my OPINION

    Some things that bugged me.... like dieing to trapped chests and not being able to get back to my corpse(on the docks you spawn at non the less). Were only a modest inconvenience to me because i had a reference point on what to do. But for someone just starting it would be devestating to be without equipment and not knowing what to do.

    The resolution for both cc and ec needs to be increased to at least 1920x1080, if not higher. Not to mention being able to easily increase the size of the text and hotbar buttons. I shouldn't have headaches trying to play because i'm squinting to see needed items. If Pinco can get this done and the uo devs can't then the uo devs need to contact someone for a job or for help.....

    The events need to work so that someone new gets what's going on. Books explaining the back history would work... Perhaps a new npc that would tell the story about the events would be cool. Otherwise why should they care about this guy whose getting stabbed by this ghost dragon. I do agree that things need to be done about the lag during the events. Perhaps allowing multiple instances for each group of X size. If your party goes over the cap of one then you get a new instance to be played out. That would help spread the lag a bit more.

    If that can't be done then have the events happen more than once a week at different times of the day(morning/afternoon/night). So that those who can't play at X time are not left out....

    Empty vendors or very old vendors are a pet peeve of mine. To me the make the world seem much more empty then it needs to be. If the vendor does not have a sale,or an empty pack then it needs to go. Set it for a month or two so that the vendors need some interaction in order to function well. (Bods in bod books shouldn't count as items to cut down on those too)

    Certain places need to be better advertised for visiting. Like magincia is a great market now(except for empty vendors) for those looking for various items/beasts.Hell just a small tutorial about each city would be good. Like yew having the elf portal. Britain being the capital. Moonglow having the zoo. All these things a player shouldn't get past 500 skill without knowing.

    Not having a friends list that can private message people really hurts the social aspect of uo. There were a lot of helpful people in uo. But since I'm not in their guild I'll never really be able to really keep in contact with them just using uo. This would really help keep people together and build community.

    The problem with the economy never really bothered me until after weeks of playing. And most of that is where should I go in order to get the money to get the powerscrolls and better equipment. But that's more of finding out what people are buying and is part of the game imho....
     
    Stubentiger, MalagAste and Lord Arm like this.
  26. Theron

    Theron Sage

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    I agree on a price drop as well. However a 6 month gametime code (45€) already take the monthly price to 7.5€ *Hides behind a tree before he gets stoned*. Don't know how it is in the US...
     
    #26 Theron, Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  27. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Wow is 14.99 month.
    People don't leave or play based on the amount it costs.
    People leave or play based on content they want to play.
    Find what you like about UO and praise it for that. Others who enjoy what you do will come play.
    Not everyone wants to PVP.
    The game is almost a world where you really don't even need to fight or least fight hot and heavy to enjoy.
    UO is not a game of instant satisfaction. If someone is seeking that instead of growing in the world, then they really should be playing something else anyways.
    If you want fresh meat to kill, then think of ways to help them instead of not having them pay lower than the price of a trip to the movies alone for a full months worth of fun.
    $12.99 is not a lot to pay for a full 24/7 minus server down time fun!
     
    #27 Gidge, Sep 5, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  28. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Amen sister!!! You said it!
     
  29. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    hopefully steam brings new exposure to UO that it currently doesn't have. nothing can be worse than the current state where there is no advertising or shelf presence.
     
  30. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    If you go to the uo.com website and click on the Community link at the top and then choose the Forums and Fansites option, you see links for the following:

    ENGLISH
    Ultima Online Stratics - This link takes you to uo2.stratics.com, where the main article on the page is an article almost two years old talking about a series of interviews Taylor planned for October 20, 2013 to celebrate Stratics' 16th anniversary.

    Ultima Online Forums - This link is still good and the forum is still active.

    Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards - The link is still good but the most recent announcement on the main page is from February 2015.

    *Ultima Online Roleplaying Community - This link is still good and the forum is still active.

    UOGuide - This link is still good and the site is actively maintained.

    UO Event Arc - The link is still good but it looks like the site hasn't been maintained since 2010.

    Fishing Council of Britain - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    Aschulze - Site not found (404 message).

    UO Ledger - Link is good but site doesn't look like it has been updated since May 2013.

    UO Craft - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    Ultima Auctions - Link is good but site appears to be dormant.

    Knuckleheads - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    GERMAN
    Ultima Online Bibliothek - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    FRENCH
    UO Jeuxonline - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    SPANISH
    Hermandad ibera de Sosaria - Link is good but site doesn't look like it's been maintained since 2008.

    JAPANESE
    Britiannia Bibliothek - Link takes you to an index page with no files listed on it.

    RUSSIAN
    Russian Community Ultima Online - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    CHINESE
    Alan Studio - Link is good but site doesn't look like it's been maintained since 2008.

    Play UO - Link is good and site is actively maintained.

    ITALIAN
    UO Mania - Link takes you to a page that tells you the domain is reserved. There is no other info/content.

    I hope that whenever the updated uo.com website is ready, this page will be cleaned up. For now, it certainly doesn't give a very positive impression of UO with so many dead links and links to inactive sites. Although it looks like the contact form if someone wants to apply to be listed on the page still comes up, more than likely it is the same contact form that other people have reported using that gives you no indication that the form data even got sent anywhere or what will happen next. There's also nothing listed in terms of guidelines for being listed on this page. I remember well when the guidelines changed back when Jeremy Dahlberg was still the community rep and there was a bit of a stink about the new rules. Seems curious to me that those guidelines aren't at least linked to from this page.

    I'm also really, really surprised there are no functional links for Japanese fansites or forums listed. I know there have to be at least a few who meet whatever the current requirements are for being listed on this page. It's too bad that things apparently never worked out for Broadsword last year to hire a Japanese-speaking associate producer. (http://www.uo.com/article/Producer-Update ) It really makes me wonder exactly how many active Japanese players UO still has these days. I thought that once the official Japanese UO site was shut down that the remaining site was going to provide at least English and Japanese translations of all news postings, but that hasn't been the case.

    *Added via edit.
     
    #30 Tina Small, Sep 6, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  31. Theron

    Theron Sage

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    I think we could all use a good Ultima Auctions website again...
     
  32. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    someone tried to revive the UO auction site a couple of years ago but there was little to no participation.
     
  33. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    You missed a site there Tina, Ultima Online Roleplaying Community... The GL Page is the most active.
     
    Tina Small likes this.
  34. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Oh god no, I'd have closer to ten than the three I have now.
     
  35. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Before UO can even think about getting onto Steam, it has some serious housekeeping to perform.

    1) It needs a new, up-to-date website that not only has news and event info about UO, but also has a well-organized playguide that explains everything. (Apparently BS is sitting on this, probably to be released with the expansion...sigh)

    2) A new, easy to use account management site that doesn't require sacrificing your first born to navigate effectively. It shouldn't be difficult to update your CC info or resub an account.

    3) A new NPE that explains, at the very least, the basics of game play. Racial benefits/drawbacks, movement/navigation, skills, armor, weapons, spellcasting, mounts, the bank, trading, etc... then give the person links to the playguide to learn more. Use New Haven to its full potential and link it to the areas that were designed for specific skills (The old SE Ninjitsu/Bushido area that's still there, and the old Necromancy and Chivalry quests) Don't dump new players into the crown cities from the get go, that will fail.

    4) Advertise UO, at least minimally. Use the UO website to advertise new things, not what happened years ago. The perfect opportunity to generate buzz and nostalgia over UO with the upcoming expansion has been totally squandered. Unless you already know about it, the website is near useless for learning more (no, publish notes don't count). The opt-in newsletter is also quite silly, it should've been blasted to every email ever associated with a UO account - let them opt-out via a link at the bottom if they don't care (a chance to gain metrics!)

    Then UO might have a chance to gain actual paying subs from Steam, instead of continuing to be ridiculed and ignored.
     
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  36. Gilmour

    Gilmour Certifiable
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    in addition to lowering fees, they could introduce a "light" account version, aka restricted (trial like) account with no time limit, however i'm aware of the potential abuse that comes with it.
     
  37. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    My five year old plays guild wars 2 .. And UO... And belive it or not prefers UO.. Even though its waaaaay harder for him due to his constant dieing... And not being able to just click a way point and be rezed..

    Because of this i pay for an extra alt account for him to play on being my main is full and well i don't wanna chance a mistake on his part dropping my house or whatever. Haha.

    Another funny thing is he plays enhanced client... Then wants to play classic thinking its a different game. Ha.

    To the main topic i just paid for three six month codes .. Ouch.

    Guildwars is one time fee.

    UO 60.00 for six months. Per account. That sure hits the pocket book kinda hard at times .. I pay it cuz i always have. But to a new gamer.. UO or something else??? One time play when you want.. Always updated..

    . Or UO.. have to keep paying... Harder... Not easy to get a grasp on... Nothing is given to you...

    I think we need to work on the player experience. Who cares if it makes lvling easier.. Or rezing quicker. To compete we need something. Even though yes it would take away from the original style. But maybe it would keep more of the new generation playing. Which is a win win to me.
     
  38. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

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    Honestly at this point I don't know how bad I'd feel if UO were shut down.
     
  39. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend BoE

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    ***************
    *11 This is where i'd be. (when 10 isn't enough)
    *10
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