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A trammel only shard.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by pgib, Nov 3, 2011.

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  1. pgib

    pgib Guest

    What about a siege-kind shard but just with trammel facet?

    You know, no need nerf pvm stuff because of pvp, no more shard duplicated stuff with "incentives", no more trashtalk in general chat, no more risk vs reward whining.

    Call it "paradise", a decent ping and i'm ready to pack this instanct.

    Anyone else who doesn't like pvp shares the same dream?
     
  2. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    You are kidding right?

    I mean...

    Really?
     
  3. Symma

    Symma Certifiable
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    LOL this is the funniest post I've read for awhile.
     
  4. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Aint that the truth. Tram only so there would be no power scrolls. LOL
     
  5. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    I think he is asking for that but in a trammel rules set. So PS and Harrowers just no pvp.
     
  6. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
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    If I could not strike my brother in anger...
     
  7. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    I'd bet a lot of money Trammel only would have a far greater population than Siege.
     
  8. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    haha and after a few weeks powerscrolls and such would be so cheap people would be throwing 120s on the ground after doing champ spawns..

    and actually also, since its tram, anyone can just come down after YOU worked up the spawn and take a whack at YOUR champ and take said powerscrolls and such..

    i think it would be far worse then you think..
     
  9. Symma

    Symma Certifiable
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    We're a hardy bunch on Siege. We wouldn't give up easily...

    Bit like the film 300
     
  10. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    aarrons just for the record that happens anyway in fel. Only they tend to kill you. For the most part there isn't much trouble in the ish spawns so I see no reason why it would suddenly get much worse. I am not sure I am for it but that might be because I remember pre trammel and while I would not call myself a hard core pvper it is something that I like to do sometimes.
     
  11. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Silly idea IMO.

    But if we are going to create a new shard I think it only logical that we create a Fel only shard first as it was in existence first.

    Siege is not Fel so it does not ever factor in the Fel/Tram debate.

    I think it is quite obvious to any knowledgable vet that in the current state of UO both facets(Tram/Fel)rely on each other equally and are necessary to a healthy overall shard so all is as should be.
     
  12. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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  13. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I would give it a shot.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    A tram only shard would NOT get rid of trash talk at all I can promise you that. Trash talk does not only exist for pvpers. But anyways, a tram only shard wouldn't be any different than existing shards except for champ spawns and thus a waste of time to produce. You'd be better off just asking for a tram champ spawn.
     
  15. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    Ummm ... <looks around for guys in white coats>

    Nah. Trammel only shard would not do a thing for the game. <shakes head>
     
  16. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Of course the trammel-only shard would have the felucca champ spawns added to the only trammel-ruleset facet.

    I don't know if double-resource stuff should be in too, to me it doesn't make sense.

    It may need some tuning in the drop rate for champ spawn items, to avoid a blatant excess but starting from zero it will grow its own economy: if ps are easier to get they should have a lower price, i don't see this as a problem.

    Even if we do not consider Siege as a shard with felucca ruleset creating a felucca only shard would make no sense: you had to gather all the felucca players of all shards to fill it, it won't work.

    I really do think that blues will transfer in mass, especially those who for time constraints or whatever had no chance to gather so many castles that moving would be an economical disaster.
     
  17. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I'd so make a char there just to grief the snot out of those trammy tweebs...oh my what fun you could have with simple lure, wait I ment I was chased by all these things and only cast my invis right now. That was your champ? I think not. You want to work up that mini boss, thanks for doing it again. If I find you are doing Corgul I'm coming at the end. Watch me release this greater dragon beside you cause I don't like the look it has...or watch my fel guild make stupid tamers so we can release five at a time...

    Hate to say but this is a first place stupid idea.

    And I can transfer to and from right?
     
  18. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Well, the same can happen in regular shard too. I have to say that where i play (Europa) there are a lot of "not very pleasant blues" but not so many to be a major issue.

    I don't think players should be able to transfer in and they shouldn't be able to transfer out (because of pvm specific items).
     
  19. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You just dont seem to be getting it sir.

    What you are asking for is exactly what you currently have on all shards except for the powerscrolls & general chat. And general chat will still have its share of blue idiots. Just a few less idiots overall.

    Do you expect people to uproot their current existence just so they can farm powerscrolls?
    And btw, powerscrolls would become a total non-issue within a matter of months as the shard would be so loaded with them(no matter what the drop rate)that they would be selling for nothing.
    Once that happens who is even gonna bother doing champ spawns? They would simply be one of about a hundred other boring farm areas. Thus making your "paradise" shard the toilet bowl it sounds like.

    IMO your issues appear to be jealousy & intolerance. Jealousy over something as easily obtained as powerscrolls & intolerance of something as petty as a few children talking trash in chat(which btw you can turn off no?)

    IMO a new shard will not help you with those types of issues I am sorry to say.
     
  20. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Funny thread. On both sides of the argument.
     
  21. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Well, no. The purpose is to have a shard where pvm features don't have the need to be balanced taking pvp in consideration.

    [edit: i'm replying to chessy]
     
  22. Shiznit Bo'Bourbon

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    I would totally play a Trammel-only shard. General chat isn't a perpetual PVP smacktalk sewer? The guys who try to steal your champ can't kill you first? A lack of e-peen waving dipsticks who think beating up someone's pixels on the internet is an important and serious thing?

    I'm in like nobody's business. This would have 20x the population of any shard's Felucca and 40x the population of Siege overnight. And from the way the PVP crowd is already whining "Siege isn't really Fel" they know it too.
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    So you want the devs to do extra work to focus on one single shard?
     
  24. MatlocK

    MatlocK Adventurer
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    It makes as much sense as having Seige as a shard, why not I say?!?!
     
  25. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Yes. Which is why the chances to see it even as an experiment are not so high. But we can still dream, can't we?
     
  26. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    and where does this happen?
    how would trammel only make this happen?


    right now as it is, you can pvm anywhere you want and not have pvp.
    you get tram, ilsh, tok, abyss, ter mur.

    you dont NEED to pvp at all..
     
  27. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Take potions as an example. You can't really make a pvm bomberman (which was a very funny pvm char of the past) because monsters have this huge amount of hit points and you can't simply carry enough bottles to take it down because they weight too much. And you have timers that makes no sense in pvm where stock should be the only limit.

    But you can't change it, it is not like a spell where you can say "ok, if the target is a character the damage is reduced": it's a formula that doesn't have a target. And this kind of things are tuned after pvp. We have seen endless discussions about the right timer for the effect X.

    Or take the speed of pets, their ability to teleport. A greater dragon that throws a fireball then teleports on you biting and bleed attacking is not so good for pvp. But in pvm teleport would be wonderful. Yet there's no way to have it in pvm but not in pvp.

    These are the issues i'm talking about. Don't think just about these stinky powerscrolls: i can buy more ps i'll ever need.
     
  28. You may have better luck setting up a poll. People are going to debate here, but bottom line is a yes/no answer. I'd say set the poll up as a yes/no for Trammel-Ruleset shard (so you still have both facets and can still do champs, harrower, etc).
     
  29. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Anyone that cannot easily take down any monster with one of about 20 current/different templates is either a fool or someone that has been playing UO for less then a week.

    Create a whole new shard so that 12 bored people can make a different "fun" pvm bomber? That is too funny.

    People quit this game in droves because they have no clue what Fel is really like and they get insanely bored after awhile killing Tram monsters. Creating a different template to kill the same monster will not change anything.

    Pvm is predictable. That is the real issue. Nothing predictable can remain fun or interesting ofc.
     
  30. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    A trammel only shard makes more sense for RP'ers than for PvM. If one is made it should cater heavily to RP, not some guy who dreams of making a bomberman character.
     
  31. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    We wouldn't need them - Word of Death - say Die, monster falls over dead
     
  32. vexyvixen

    vexyvixen Journeyman
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    I agree.
     
  33. HD2300

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    It is the same argument for 720 skill for all players... People who don't have real jobs and make a living off UO, and lessor PvPers dont want it.
     
  34. Percivalgoh

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    There have been several other threads about Trammel only rules shard over the years. I am happy where I am in Trammel. Haven't even been to Fellucca in several years. I don't really need a new shard but if there was one, I would check it out and consider moving there. I would just have to see how it all plays out. If it had the same types of players as Trammel or better I would move there permanently.
     
  35. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I'm for anything new. Maybe they could create a new landmass, new waters and islands. Just imagine the possibilities without having to worry about balance. You could start with small, weak creatures and work all the way up to the impossible.

    You could remove power scrolls or set them higher. You could allow character strength or hit points to be much higher. You could find new ways to connect skills and balance them with strength or dexterity.

    Dynamic systems could be added. Powerful items could be found and used because it wouldn't matter. Connective powers and crazy spells that are over powered and completely God Like could be added. Imagine one spell being able to level a Champ at the high end and at the low end not being able to beat a Slime.

    But it would take somebody who knows what could be done. You could still have PKs and Thieves, they would just be NPCs. I think the idea has alot of potential and alot of possibilities.
     
  36. pgib

    pgib Guest

    It feels a bit weird having to explain this but... the bomberman was an example, a specific case that a human being makes to tell to another human being about an abstract fact.

    The point is the "hidden" abstraction, not the specific case.

    So i don't want a bomberman but (probably, i started the discussion because of this) a wider range of equally effective pvm characters that I think is not possible if we mix pvp and pvm.

    The thing about predictability is wrong, it's a long discussion but if you take a look at some paper about obsessive-compulsive disorders you'll find a lot of very interesting results (it's a bit scary but it has a lot to do with online gaming).
     
  37. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    The example was noted, but was too silly not to prod. A trammel PvM shard isn't worth dev time in my opinion, whereas a trammel RP shard could be. But if we who asked didn't get a classic shard I don't see them doing this either. Good luck!
     
  38. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Not a chance !
     
  39. UOPlayer4LYFE

    UOPlayer4LYFE Visitor

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    Sounds like the most boring shard ever created in UO. I bet you've never even tried to PvP in the however many years you've played UO. You probably went to fel, got your ass beat and then went crawling back to tram because it's the easy care bear thing to do. Heaven forbid something in a video game actually take skill. What you're asking for is EXACTLY what WoW is, so go play a non-pvp server on WoW and don't disgrace UO with such thoughts.
     
  40. HD2300

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    The reason a classic shard didnt go ahead was that they would have been quite a bit of coding involved to emulate the T2A era, and it would have been insane to offer a cut down alpha version of hotmail.com and charge people $150/yr.

    A PvE shard is basically change a 1 to a 0 in the settings for Felucca, and it is an all consentual PvP ruleset everywhere.

    So
    1. It is easy and cheap to do
    2. It will back former players and keep existing players p(l)aying

    But
    3. Losers who dont have real jobs and make a living off UO, and lessor PvPers dont want it.
     
  41. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Well, of course i don't pvp! For god's sake, i'm talking about a no-pvp shard, do you think i pvp?

    And about the skill stuff, UOPlayer4LYFE, Lizardmen are renowned for being particularily proud of their hunting abilities.

    Grab your tamer and come to TC1 and we'll see if you can even go close to the things i can kill. Then we'll talk about skills, flessshling!
     
  42. UOPlayer4LYFE

    UOPlayer4LYFE Visitor

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    I really hope you're just a bad troll.
     
  43. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
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    Talk about wasting server resources !!!
    If you want a Tram shard stay in tram facet and pretend there is no Fel.
    What you really mean is gimme all the same benfits as the Fel.
     
  44. pgib

    pgib Guest

    The bad troll is still waiting for you on TC1.

    About the waste of resource i already acknowledged that, it's clearly not a priority. If you read the posts though the thing is a bit more complex than having what's in felucca (in fact is having what can't be added because of felucca).
     
  45. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Sure. But it's still pointless for the reasons already listed above. If champ spawns were in trammel the prospect of a tram only shard would be completely and utterly pointless as you already have your trammel only shard, just avoid walking into fel. Hence, powerscrolls in trammel would be much more likely than your own shard.

    Another reason is simply this: Shard to player ration is already a bit messed up. We don't need more shards, we need less.
     
  46. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I would never play on it but I wouldn't be against creating it, It's population would never be that great though. Just like with siege the vast majority of players who would want to play on it wont move to it anyways as they don't want to lose their house/items from their home shard to place a house there. That and there's not much point, 5 out of 6 facets right now are tram ruleset on all shards anyways, so basicly what....that's 25 nearly 100% trammel shards now anyways, so why even bother? Only thing in fel on those shards is power scrolls, and it's not like they're horribly expensive to buy....and if you're interested in doing the spawns themself there's the ilish spawns, tokuno spawn, and bedlam spawn already.
     
  47. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The Classic Shard wouldn't of had many players on it after a few months. The PvPers and the PKers would have gone there for a month or two, and having no one to gank would have had the PKers leaving it like they did after Tram was created. A Trammel Shard, particularly an RP one, would draw people who are sick & tired of PvM being screwed with as the Devs try and keep the PvPers happy, and might well have the fel-bait items available to them to boot.

    Not hearing the Risk (all your time and work) vs Reward (the PKers with all your time & work) line any more would be a bonus. :)
     
  48. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    I think a trammel only shard would be stupid, but if that is what the majority of people playing this game want then they should get it. I have often found that games that do not have risk vs reward get extremely boring extremely fast. I enjoy playing FPS (first person shooters) and pvp orientated rpgs. So I am playing these games to fight, where you seem to play these games to collect things, build characters and such. I think this is the real issue here.
    There is a split, I would prefer more combat, more pvp, harder and stronger monsters with a reason to fight over them. You want less competition, more favorable drops and no reason to fight for them. That's cool I respect your reason for playing this game, but that is not why I play the game. You and I would constantly be at odds regarding moving the game forward and improving things. I use that as an example but it's how the entire game is, some want more fighting some want less and it will continue on forever and ever. Apparently darkfall is failing (last I heard UO has more people), so I guess most people who want this instant combat, pvp style game are getting more and more into FPS, and the "Trammel" type games are what people want.

    Point is a trammel only shard seems like the worst idea I've ever heard, but if it keeps people playing then go for it. I just tend to think that if you are not playing UO for at least some of the pvp experience (top notch in large battles, top 3 of any game), then you would've moved onto a game like DDO or WOW. DDO is story driven group pvm that is perfect for roleplayer types and has beautiful graphics. IF you are just wanting to kill monsters this is your game, the pvp is pretty horrid and extremely limiting. WoW is a little more balanced in pvp/pvm but you don't HAVE to pvp in wow to have fun. All games have upsides and downsides, but nothing can compare to UO's freedom and UO's combat. I just don't ssee how someone who enjoys to collect things, build characters and not enjoy pvp at all would put up with the stuff UO throws at us on a consistant basis. If I only wanted to PVM I certainly would not be playing UO.

    Also the general chat talk is soo soo sooo toned down compared to most games that I can't see how it bothers anyone. It seems like people just log into most of these games to yell and argue with one another. I have a high tolerance for putting up with BS, so I am not even phased by most of what is said. I'm just saying tho if you are offended by UO you are in trouble if you ever go to another game.
     
  49. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    Yeah, I mean, it's not like the pre-tram "hush hush, we can't talk about them" shards have more players online at any time than all OSI shards combined or anything.... /s

    EA makes the same thing, with the guarantee of no character deletion when inactive for 3 months, and that the shard won't just disappear overnight one day and they could win back quite a few subscriptions.

    PS..darkfall is failing because it's a boring game, nothing to do with pvp or pvm, can't extrapolate the want for pvp from that (else I could say nobody likes pvm because lineage 2 is failing)
     
  50. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    You're assuming that PvM and RP go hand-in-hand. But there are a lot of RP'ers who enjoy PvP and wouldn't like all the changes that would be unleashed in making certain skills more powerful just so they can be used on AI.
     
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