1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

About afk scripting and UO in general...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by hawkeye_pike, Mar 11, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    We all know that UO has been ridden by afk scripters since many many years. I don't know how many thousands of complaints have been filed on boards like these. Maybe it is time to step back and re-evaluate.

    What harm do those scripters do to the game? They damage an already messed up economy. But since UO has already turned into an item-based game, and economy already has been ruined, this shouldn't affect us too much. Most players have been circumvening this issue anyway by either buying gold, or avoiding in-game trading altogether. We all have our own crafters, for exactly that reason. As a consequence, communities have become even more irrelevant, and UO is often played like a single-player game. The services of a crafter are no longer required.

    I personally have given up on arguing about that issue, because it most likely never will change. An age-old client technology prevents efficient measures against 3rd-party tools. The lack of competent GMs doesn't help either. If I'd want to macro unattendedly, hey, I'd switch back to the Legacy Client. There are enough tools to "Assist" me with this.

    What it boils down to, is that UO fails to attract new customers (I won't mention the returning veterans, who cannot even compensate those players leaving the game). The reasons for this development are known to us all. This leads to a lack of budget, and thus the inability to REALLY change this game (and I'm not speaking of giant turkeys for Thanksgiving here). It's a vicious circle.

    None of us can change this dilemma. The only one who could change it, would be someone with a vision and some money, someone who is convinced that UO can be turned into a success story once again, without wasting ressources on totally useless projects like a "Classic Shard" or another new landmass. I'd say that the chances are pretty low that such a person was given a chance under EA management.
     
  2. Anderuin

    Anderuin Guest

    I beleived that when I quit along time ago I would never return. I thought this game wouldn't last much longer. But it has and it probabily always will. Last time I checked this is still a very highly ranked MMORPG. Check the ratings on MMORPG.com. I've tried nearly every single MMORPG on the market and nothing has ever caught my imagination and my interest as much as UO has.

    It's true that UO does have many MAJOR flaws, but what game doesn't? There is endless botters in games like WOW, Lineage 2, Warhammer and Aion. I think the problem is that people think they can't make a difference. The easy thing is to blame it on a GM. But the reality is there not here to babysit each and everyone of us. If we want to make a difference in the game, than we have to do it ourselves and let the GM's know that stuff is going on.

    LONG LIVE BRITANNIA!!
     
  3. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    31
    i really think those scripters help this game out.. they make things impossible to get possible to get..

    like today, i needed some shadow ingots.. so i tried to get my own.. it didnt go well.. 3 hours later i have 100.
    so i found a bunch in bulk (probably from a scripter) and bought them..
     
  4. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Last we heard they were at 95% of getting some anti cheat thingy done. Im going on Vegas odds here and the 5% will be complete by the time my kid is a grandmother :) The real economy finally caught up with UO's economy. Maybe we need some new currency to stimulate UO's economy and scrapping the gold curency we have.
     
  5. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    I didn't say UO would die. But it might slowly fade.
    Yes, other MMORPGs have major issues too (that's why I still play UO). But at least they are new, and they have fantastic graphics.

    You got that wrong: They said that they'd fix speedhacking, not 3rd party tools in general.
     
  6. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually...there was a clarification made in an interview lately. They were 95% done with step one of the three step process(95% done pinning down the issue...5% go, then you have programming, then anti cheat software). No, that's not a joke either...
     
  7. Anderuin

    Anderuin Guest

    I was drawn to UO back in 2000 because it had a very unique look and I think it still does stand out. Some people might consider them bad and dated. But I have always enjoyed playing 2d games more than 3d ones. Anything that looks different is always a plus in my book. UO is still one of the only games people can still play on their ancient machines from the late 90's, if they still have them.

    So to me graphically it welcomes not only people with the new computers but also ones with older dated computers. My PC is about the equivalent of one from about 2004-2005.
     
  8. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    I've come to the belief now, after nearly nine years playing UO, that macroing attended should be legal. I've only played two other MMOs for a very short time. Never played WoW.

    If you're at your computer and paying attention, and can respond to a GM, that should be ok. I don't even begin to imagine how you could balance resource scripting and skill training while preventing PvP cheats. I suppose if it's legal then everyone would have the option of using said program.

    Just for those who need specific clarification, I'm talking about macroing attended only. Hacking the client or utilizing and exploiting bugs in the client or sever code not included. UMing also not included.

    My two cents.
     
  9. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    From what I've seen, communities have changed to include not everyone on a shard, but to everyone in your guild or alliance. Some of these "communities" work together for a common goal, and may or may not become allied to each other.

    On some of the least populated shards, I've heard, there's still some semblance of a shard community.

    Otherwise I agree with your post, OP, and I hope something will eventually be done about scripting and hacking and game mechanic abuse.

    Maybe we could all start calling EA main offices and bugging them about it? Or something? :p (somehow I don't think they'd listen....)
     
  10. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    I think there's still a lot of community left in UO. Certainly on some shards. It's obviously not the same as the good ole days but it wouldn't be impossible to revive it to a higher level. There are certain game mechanics and features that make community involvement less necessary and there are those that promote it. There just needs to be the right balance which seems to continually elude every dev team.
     
  11. Reximus

    Reximus Guest

    It's not just the 2D client, if someone wanted to write a scripting tool for UOSA they could.
     
  12. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    577
    My only comment here is that it is manifestly a stupid idea to have rules which you then either,

    a. Are unable to enforce.

    b. Are unwilling to allocate the resources to enforce or

    c. Ignore breach of.
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Actually macroing attended is perfectly legal and encourage. If you want to get pass the 3rd party rule just use a macro script program or excel macroer on UOassist.Or Use a built in macroer on your keyboard which by definition the program does not interact with uo but with your computer hardware components. There is always a way so it's impossible to stop it. I remmember the anti macro code they put him and made us discover the 8x8 method. They did not bother to close that method as they realized people needed it. Finaly adfter many years the anti macro code was located and removed which removed the need for 8x8 and every body was happy again because the dev learned there was a reason we payed for uo assist and a reason why we wanted advance macros on our clients.
     
  14. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    After spending time in games like Atlantica,they should just allow unattended macroing. In that game you are encouraged to play....more like your encouraged to stay logged in. Work your trade while ya sleep,fish or whatever else. If it weren`t for turn based fighting that game would give all others a serious run for their money IMO.

    I found it interesting that they do allow everything that UO doesn`t and its actually encouraged by the devs because they made systems to harbor unattenededness. They just want you in their game and logged in.

    The funny thing is.....even in a game where unattenedness is encouraged.... there is STILL gold sellers. I am of the opinion that as long as there is lazy ass people there will always be a market for gold/item sellers even in the the easiest of games.

    Since UO`s devs won`t do anything to stop the scripting and unatteneded macroing,they should....just like pot.... legalize it.

    That way everyone can go out and raze the country side driving the prices of everything down to nothing. Why would anyone need millions of gold when 1k ingots would go for a couple hundred gold,frostwood galore and valorite falling out of the sky. Would be funny to see those spamming gold sellers muted by their own programs. Some I`m sure would make it and still manage to sell to the lazy but I`m sure the vast majority of the lightwieghts would be run right outa buisness.

    Alas,it`ll never happen. In 3-5 years we`ll still be crying because of scripts and duping and a fouled up economy and whatnot. Everyone will still be in the same sandbox dealing with the same smelly brown clumps of sand littered throughout and wondering why.
     
  15. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    115
    I wonder.. Random thought on this issue (And I suppose it would tie into the "Honor in a Video Game" thread):

    What stops a person from buying something they clearly can see is from a scripter? (Example: No one sells thousands upon thousands of ingots of various types for anything relatively cheap, unless they are doing you a favor.)

    What stops a person from buying only from people they can talk to, or vendors they know that the same person they are speaking with owns?

    Convenience? Simplicity? Just too difficult or boring? Unsociable? Less people?

    My father always said, "Anything easily gained is easily lost". You could paraphrase that and assume if they're giving it away, it didn't take much for them to get it.

    It's easy to blame the devs, the system, technology.. Much harder to look at the reasons these sorts of activities thrive in the first place.
     
  16. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Lets look at it from EA perspective. Its all about money. They may say what we want to hear but in the end its about money to them. They are a business and they need profit.

    So EA goes on a crusade to save the game from cheaters. They ban 6000 people from the game for using some kind of cheat for skill gaining to resource gathering. At $12.99 x 6000 x 12 = $935,280 a year in revenue loss to them. We the community dont care about the loss just that the game is free of cheaters. Well 6k in people may not be a loss to a game with millions of subscribers or even 300k as long as they can replace those numbers with an influx of new subscribers. UO doesn't have those kinds of numbers to replace that big of a loss in that amount of time.

    Lets face it. Even if you cleaned up the game are we going to get the numbers back UO in it's height and glory days. I highly doubt it. To much competition with other subscription online games, free online games, and the game systems out with online capabilty. They still keep UO going along with all the years of cheating and they must be making some type of profit. It's us as a subscriber that allows it to continue. We still pay to play. As long as we make EA money they may do little crusades to keep spirits up.

    EA worries about profit. Plain and simple. With that kind of loss from the example above and you are an employee of EA you're going to put you"re job on the line in this economy? They did a massive layoff already and the ones still working probably worry everyday if they may be next.

    Just my opinion and not trying to start a flame war.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461


    But "what if" that loss of 6,000 cheating accounts then prompts more players to actually be willing to play UO and, therefore, open new subscriptions or renew their old ones because, now, finally, they can play a game free of cheaters ?

    I mean, why would it be that if the game is free of cheats noone would want to play it ?

    My experience is rather different, over the years I met quite a few fellow players who left the game because they had enough of scripters, or of dupers or of speed hackers, or of house breakers into and so forth.

    And quite a few times I heard of players who might have wanted to come back to the game but were deterred by the rampant cheating.

    So, how can we say that an UO free of cheating would have less players in the end ?

    What if, instead, Ultima Online after it's been freed of cheaters gets more subscriptions as before ?

    Of course, noone has the answer to this, but sometimes, in business without taking risks there is not much gains........


    Without taking the risk and trying it out it is impossible to say, it's all just guessing whether in favour or against a given hypothesis.

    Besides, I think the issue might go even beyond the game itself. It might bring credit to the Company owning the game as better reputation.

    I mean, I am a player of computer games.

    If I know that a given Company has a strong reputation of not allowing cheating in their games, personally, that would raise my interest in the products of that Company a whole lot. I would look at new releases from that Company with a different eye since they gained a reputation with me.

    Instead, if I am convinced that a Company is relaxed with cheating, and I do not enjoy playing games where other cheat too freely, I may not be intersted at all in any future release from that Company. They lost credit with me.

    So, I think a Company should make their decisions for the games they run, not only limiting the scope of those decisions to the individual games, but also looking at the wider picture and to how eventually they want their customers to look at them.
     
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You have a unique out look but The fact is and logicaly,scientificaly,economicaly in a business stand point and the trend of online gaming compared to the resources allocated to this game and still the constant extreme cheating that goes on with all other games using the most expensive anti cheating techniques Zosimus is entirely correct with the assesment.
     
  19. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    0
    The sad truth about why EA has done nothing realistic nor long term about cheaters/hackers/etc, is simply, EA has shown, time and again, that they simply don't give a darn about UO, or the Ultima universe, in general, beyond it being a cash cow that they can milk and will continue to do so as long as they possibly can. And you can believe that the second it stops paying for itself, they will have NO problem pulling the plug on things.

    For empirical proof, I offer U9, UO:X, UO2, TD, KR and now, SA. All ideas that, I'm sure, had a great deal of good intention, but all of which were either killed before birth, or put out in such a way as to be broken and/or unacceptable to the majority of people playing the game. Sure, there are dev teams that, to a degree, care about the product, but they only care as much as EA's dollars will allow them to. The reason?

    It's simple. EA is out to make money. That's no secret. And if anyone even remotely thinks that Ultima Online comes anywhere near the revenue of, say, Madden NFL, for just one year, they are sadly delusional. UO is basically the grand daddy of the MMO world - no, it's not the original, but it's the best of the originals. And yet EA wanted to push the Sims-Online as their premier, flagship MMO. Do any of you honestly believe that, failing that, their primary reason for obtaining Mythic Entertainment was to use Warhammer for the exact same purpose?

    Do none of you find it ironic, and yes, moronic, that when you call EA's customer service line, and are asked to push a number for a product, Ultima Online isn't even listed out of 7-8 choices, but Littlest Pet Shop is?

    So, I seriously doubt they really care overly much about this particular product - especially when they can make more in one fell swoop off of games like the new Battlefield, Crysis/2, etc, on the PC than UO has produced in its 13 year history... then throw in the real cash cows, like all the EA sports packages on the consoles.... yeah, they are going to really show UO a lot of love in that environment... they won't even sponsor their own forums...

    No offense, Cal and crew. I believe you guys are sincere in the things you say. But you have to realize that there are more than a few of us that have been listening to it forever. Maybe if EA hadn't of wasted all the money on the road trips to Dave and Busters, things wouldn't have degraded to this level. I dunno.
     
  20. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    EA is in business, and in their business they would like to make money. Do you people who agree with this statement REALLY think UO could not make money? They make a profit on UO still, if they took that profit and instead of putting it towards other projects, or instead of getting rid of people all the time, and they just put the money into making the game more profitable they could continue the trend of doing this for as long as they wanted.

    The MMO community WANTS a game like UO, so why are they kept away? I will not venture to answer this, and I will not say it's because of "rampant cheating" because face it people, there is not a popular mmo out there that does not have cheating, and yes it is likely that the ratio of cheater to honest player is most likely the same in every one of those games. So again I ask, if UO is the type of game the MMO community wants, then why can't it be UO? This question is all EA needs to take UO and increase its subscriptions 10 fold, or more if they really try. Why don't they? Because EA is not directly in charge, and the person "in charge" of this has changed EVERY year, each new person advocating something and almost getting it done before being removed or getting a new role (recently Bioware took over as head of the MMO section with in EA, a company by the way with no MMO experience) So if either EA stepped in and made some actual goals for UO to accomplish, then maybe they could reach these goals because each new person would have the same plan to follow as the last, or the next. So really it comes down to, "Why not UO?".
     
  21. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    0
    It could be because of the various clones of UO that have come and gone, and all of which have been hit with the same rubber stamp -

    FAIL.

    The games that haven't failed have either had a different marketing scheme - Guild Wars, which has no subscription fee - EQ, EQ2, WoW and various clones, all of which are primarily PvE, where non-Con is an option, not a requirement - Lineage 1/2, both of which actually have an interactive world, where things can be built and destroyed, and cooperation is a requirement to succeed. Aion hasn't been out long enough to make a determination - I've heard both good and bad.

    So why not UO? It would take a complete and total re-working, either back to a time where (arguably, and not the point of this response) the total non-con world drove away more subs than it drew in, or a complete and total re-work into something entirely different, which would require a new client, a new engine, etc. Either way, the current user base won't be happy.

    In this brave new world, full of console players, people are not going to settle for a client that is more primitive than the original Doom engine... Sony learned this lesson with Everquest, and with Shadows of Luclin, introduced an entirely new graphics engine, and, over a period of about 18 months, weaned everyone off the old system, to the point where it eventually wasn't even an option. And it didn't hurt their numbers. 15 expansions later...
     
  22. Paps

    Paps Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Originally Posted by popps
    But "what if" that loss of 6,000 cheating accounts then prompts more players to actually be willing to play UO and, therefore, open new subscriptions or renew their old ones because, now, finally, they can play a game free of cheaters ?
    ==========================================================
    Originally Posted by Zosimus
    They ban 6000 people from the game for using some kind of cheat for skill gaining to resource gathering. At $12.99 x 6000 x 12 = $935,280 a year in revenue loss to them.
    ==========================================================
    on one hand you have "what if",,,on the other hand you have $935,280 a year in revenue.
    I think it is safe to say EA chose the $935,280 over the "what if"
    as would probably 90%+ of all companys that large.

    It reminds me of a saying,,,
    "crap in one hand and wish in the other,,,,see which one fills up 1rst."

    there will allways be cheaters in UO.If you think EA is going to throw out close to a mill a year you are mistaken.Get over it and shut up or simply stop paying for UO.Which will send a message to EA,,,,of course they will ignore that message as they dont give a hoot.

    Thats my 2 cents.agree with it or not,,i`m not gunna bother with any flame wars as its not often i even read these threads.
     
  23. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    not only is it a huge what if especially since ea doesn't advertise worth beans. It wouldn't be 6k accts out instant "Yay, cheating is over" 6k or more accts back in. The truth is they need to be careful how much they address or they will go under and that will be it for uo. Everyone on these boards under estimates the amount of cheating going on. This place is like fairy tale land when it comes to these discussions for the most part.
     
  24. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    But you see those clones of UO are what the MMO community is asking for, my point is they WANT UO, but why wont they play it? You named a ton of games, all of which are the games people are trying to get away from, they want the game play UO offers but either wont play UO or don't know what its about so never try. Maybe the answer is simply marketing the game. And yea, new graphics...they need to ignore the main portion of the player base when it comes to a new client, and listen instead to the people who are backing the clients. An attractive client could be the answer, along with proper marketing and such.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461



    Is there a "cheats' meter" somewhere that daily scans the level of cheating in UO ?

    I mean, how can it be known how many players actually cheat in UO and to what extent ?

    Has Mythic done an extensive study on this and accurately have pin pointed the problem and its numbers ?

    If so, can we get to know them please ?

    The question is not naive, because I DO am a player and I DO pay for the service of this game.

    If there are, just an example for the sake of the discussion, 9 players out of 10 who cheat regularly, one way or the other, I would really want to know it and get to see what game I am into................
     
  26. Gawin

    Gawin Guest

    Look people I wrote many custom scripts over the years for people who wanted them, the list is rather interesting and long. there is every one from past EM's to stratics people to even some of the people you see on here screaming about scripters... the well if you cant beat them join them crowd.

    Just from the numbers of scripts i wrote for specific people and know they were shared around guilds and what not.... I would actually worry if they managed or decided to stop them all together.

    If it had been stopped or cracked down on say 6-7 years ago it might have made a difference today. I have not played the last year but i know many people still request scripts for certain things.

    so just be very careful what you wish for
     
  27. One little problem with that hypothetical you're using: The last time I checked, the scripting program that most of the scripters use had over 26,000 users, not 6,000. And that's assuming that only registered members of the site have copies of the program. And UO doesn't have 300,000 subscribers. It's more like 75,000. If they ban over a third of the current subscribers, they don't lose $935,280 per year. They lose more like $4 million plus, a third of their total revenue, not counting expansion packs. And whether they can replace those 26,000 plus subscribers isn't a hypothetical. It's a practical certainty that they can't. If we assume that there are probably several thousand people using the scripting program than there are members of the site, and a lot of UO's subscribers have multiple accounts, it's likely that at least half of their subscriber base are scripting.

    Just to be honest, since they can't afford to lose half of their player base, their best option would be to allow attended, and maybe even unattended, scripting for skill gains, since the AOS crew did all of that work to make skills practically impossible to gain by actually playing the game, with everything from abolishing power hour, to changing the fail rate that a gain is possible at, to adding 8x8, to adding anti-macroing subroutines, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., until it would take the average player a decade or more of normal gameplay to become legendary in most skills. It's amazing that people would look for a way to gain skills when they suddenly couldn't gain them in any normal way anymore.

    But when they did so, they would have to make permanent insta-bans for scripted resource gathering. The resource gathering scripts are what everybody objects to. They destroy the economy. They allow a few players to become obscenely wealthy while not bothering to play the game. And most people don't miind somebody even unattended macroing to gain skills, but we practically universally hate for somebody scripting to gather resources.

    Also, scripting and macro programs are hard to police against. Even an Office macro can be used to gain skills or do rudimentary tasks while unattended.

    On the other hand, speed hack programs are easily detectable, because they actually have to interfere with the way data is sent and received by the UO client. But there aren't a lot of speed hackers out there. Most of them know that they risk losing their decked-out veteran accounts to gain that little advantage in speed. I've seen exactly one speed hacker in Trammel since I came back to UO in the fall, and only a few in Felucca. When somebody goes a little faster than I do, it's just a fast connection. When they cross the whole screen in the time it takes me to move 4 steps, something's wrong. Now, mass bannings of speed hackers would be totally viable for UO. There are probably not more than a couple hundred speed hackers across all 20+ shards.

    I noticed one other thing about free shards when I researched some of them: most of them allow players to use a free tool that works just like UOAssist, and it has a subroutine designed especially to check if players are running the scripting program that is so popular on OSI shards. Detection of the scripting program is an insta-ban for all players using the same IP address. And GMs can insta-ban players who appear to be unattended macroing to gather resources, but not if they suspect the player to be unattended macroing to gain skills. It's amazing how effective those simple measures have been in controlling scripting.
     
  28. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    I'm not saying that banning all the scripters is a good solution. Good solutions would be:

    1. Make game content less scripter friendly. Repetitive tasks, static content, unlimited skillgain, it all encourages scripting.

    2. Certain tasks should require more player interaction, which would not only make them more interesting, but also more difficult to script (good example: Imbuing).

    3. The client should prevent the use of 3rd party tools (probably impossible with the 2D Client).

    4. In-game scripts should be able to detect scripters (i.e. automated repetitive tasks).

    5. GMs should take action (not necessarily ban people permanently, but give them a warning first.)

    Skill training mostly is a joke today. You can train most skills to 110 or higher within 24 hours. A few exceptions are: taming, ninjitsu, poisoning etc., cause those skills reuqire player interaction that is difficult to script. Yes, you see scripting tamers, too. But they only exist because of the static spawn.

    If those things do not change, getting excited over scripters is a waste of time. If a game has loopholes that allow such things, players will ALWAYS abuse them.
     
  29. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Sorry about this I can find a argument to all your points. Your points are all valid but It's my nature to pick apart things.

    Repetitive task are done with macros thats what macros are for, Static content not sure your meaning in this one.. unlimited skillgain we tried the other way for for many years we don't like it power hour,8x8 boat. This is one problem wioth siege and Thats what ROT is for we in production do not enjoy it.

    Player interaction is scriptable. More complex task makes it more waste of time for non scripters and will push people to script. Which scripting means macros and the only scripting thats illegal is one's that are not using UO programs and unattended.

    Impossible In any client just look at WOW,Everquest or any online game to see how impossible it is.

    All task except PVP are repetitive with use of macros which is legal and found in both clients as well as 3rd party tool of uoassist. So that would pretty much detect everyone that doesn't PVP.

    They do that already suspension. I see them many times if Im mining. I know them by name and there time work time. This is as much as I am paged on. Hope one day there is suspensions to those who abuse the process and tie up there time with meaningless pages. After so many times in the pass they only pop in once in the blue these days to just have a short conv with me and tell me my griefers are at it again.

    They removed the anti-macro code for that reason so that you can macro all the skills up as 8x8 would of being the previous method and every one did it.The rest is what ROT is for on siege which i tend to stay very far away from. i already did my training during the powertimes and 8x8 times I will not revert to that again. Good that there is static spawn for taming or else it would take players 3 to 5 years to finish one. Seemingly having skills less than 100 these days means you can't do anything worth while I think this would be a very bad idea.

    Even if the game didn't have loopholes loopholes will be found because nothing is perfect and if they need to make a real life robot to sit on the desk to do your playing for you guess what they will.
    If there is a loophole to get specilal swords or sandles from npc as you remmeber everyone did it. Hell all those true rares were not intentional they were just items that the dev forgot to lock down and guess what it started a whole community from them.
     
  30. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest




    Good Post!


    I actually agree with most posters here, both for and/or against cheating. Both sides make valid points.

    I guess my biggest question is:

    Why does EA have rules they cannot or are not willing to enforce?

    I personally have never encountered a 'bot' in WoW, other than those sending me tells about their gold selling websites, I've never actually seen a script-mining bot or a skill raising bot, etc. So I can never understand why people always claim WoW is filled with bots.

    Blizzard actually sued a WoW bot script writer? and WON.

    http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/09/29/mdy-blizzard-damages/

    EA needs to make a decision and then stick by it.

    Either enforce the current rules OR lose the GMs, lose the rules, and rate UO M for Mature.

    BUT FOR PETE'S SAKE MAKE THE DAMN GAME A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

    As it stands now new players and old might just as well look at UO and say:

    If I wish to make a name for myself in this game, I have to either:

    1. Spend alot of cash to buy cool items for my char and/or my house from gold sellers

    2. Speedhack, autoheal and other cheats to rank in Pvp

    3. Buy duped runics or script myself up some runics so that my char name can be plastered all over gear (duped or scripted imbuing mats now I guess)

    4. Script up some resources so that I can sell them from Luna vendor houses and make enough cash selling the gold to BUY a Luna vendor house for $2000

    5. and so on and etc...

    For anyone who wants to just play the game to test their competitiveness or to experience life as a virtual blacksmith of renown in a medieval setting, you just ain't gonna measure up unless you play by the rules above.

    I mean whats the point of competing unless we are playing by the same rules?
     
  31. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    110
    Indeed they do, I had a GM to see me yesterday actually. I was recalling wood back and forth for a Lord British chair from the museum, Only about 30 trips with Ash wood, Nothing too major. Anyway, The GM comes along asks where I got my robe (I had the Tyball robe on) I say I bought it and off he goes again..

    Whats scary is, I assume someone was monitoring my house and my movements! :eek:
     
  32. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    Kinda like the FBI monitors us Americans irl?

    And I am sure other countries do the same.


    :)
     
  33. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461



    The problem is that not all players in the game script and, therefore, players are NOT playing on an equal ground.

    Those players not scripting are playing with a handicap and a starting disadvantage.

    The Company owning the game should either stop the scripting for good, or allow it for all actually providing the client with the scripting tools that so far third party programs can do.

    At that point, with either solution, finally all players would again be playing on an equalized ground.

    Until then, this game sees an outrageous inequality among players playing it.

    Anyways, there is also a 3rd option which, could be a solution compromise between the 2.

    Not necessarily any and all scripters, small and big should be banned.

    It could be possible to make a case by case analysis of all scripters and only actually ban the extreme cases, those who really do it a go go 24/7 over multiple accounts and leave alone the casual scripters.

    What I am trying to say is that the whole thing could happen this way :

    Step 1) A fix that would stop scripting for good in the game is developed, tested and made comfortable with its usage;

    Step 2) The identification and monitoring of all scripters in the game for their scripting activity is started and a list with the worst cases noted is made;

    Step 3) A Public announcement is made that on a certain date a publish will be released on all shards and that from that moment on anyone found scripting will be banned outright;

    Step 4) The worst scripters, which I hope would be a limited number of cases, from the pre anti-script patch, are banned.

    A new era for Ultima Online, free of cheating, can now start, hopefully........

    Am I dreaming with my eyes open ?
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461


    How sad to me.......

    I still say make UO a cheat free game, it deserves it so to be able to claim that not only it is the grand daddy of online multiplayer games, but also that it is a game where players can enjoy a cheat free environment and measure themselves with other players on the sole basis of their playing and not on who may sport the best scripts....
     
  35. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,820
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have No Way to Know!!!

    However, we must at least consider the possibility that the most successful scripters are in fact EA Mythic employees. What better way to supplement income than to script and sell what is scripted for real life money???

    And isn't that tax free money?

    I am not making any accusations. But the possibility, plausibility and likelyhood must at least be considered.
     
  36. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    UO will never be cheat free....ever. Niether will any other online mmorpg. Cheats are everywhere for just about everything. Its just something that needs to be dealt with by actually enforcing rules that are being broken.

    If anyone has any high hopes of playing a UO with absolutely no cheats...... I`d go blow your nose and get that idea out of your head. I`ve played sooooo many mmo`s f2p and p2p. Tried everything from DAoC,Lineage,WoW,Atlantica and S.U.N. to Battlefields hero`s,CoD and plenty of other games in almost every mmo genre.

    Every one of them had cheaters. Everyone of them had the same problems. As much as I freekin hate dying to some aimbot chump in BFH or a radar using gank squad in DAoC..... its just something that we as players have to accept. Thinking that ANY online game maker will ever irradicate all cheating in their game is just a pipe dream at best.

    Yes they could make it better and they should....but they will never get rid of it. I`ve played in to many sandboxes and its damn near the same in every one of them.
     
  37. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Look I wasnt being specific with exact numbers. I was just using an example of numbers. I had already proved what you said in the quote above just using random numbers showing a loss. A business isnt going to take a loss with no guarantee they can get it back instantly. UO cant fill up the subscriber base if they ban 6000 to 26000 people instantly. Plus you also forget to add that the site is also used by free sharders
     
  38. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
     
  39. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Catskills Report:

    March, week 2...

    Several miners, lumberjackers and bowyers are missing in action...

    Any info about this misterious vanishing please contact your local sheriff... and stay in the Guard Zone...
     
  40. Ralco

    Ralco Guest

    Beta player, former counselor, off and on player with account age at 94 months, current subscriber. I live in FEL but I'm not a PvPer. I like living in a live fire environment but get my competitive fix elsewhere. I script anything I can but I don't do afk because I like my account and want to keep it. However I don't have a problem with others doing it.

    Please pardon an formatting weirdness as I'm using a text only browser to get around the web filter at work.

    I'm going to go over a few points but the tl;dr is:
    If you crack down on scripting the game dies. Period.

    Resource gathering and leveling many of the skills is boring and pointless. Especially after you've done it many times. Even combat skills can get a bit boring but at least there's variety there.

    Take magery for example. You decide you want a char to be able to gate. How is sitting there casting spells, or really the same spell, over and over and over again a game? How is this fun and entertaining? Past the discovery phase, ie the first time you do it, it's not.

    Take resource gathering. You need ingots. You run around double clicking your shovel and clicking the rock. Again how is this a game? The EC has some really nice macros now but unless you're hunting for ore elementals this is boring mindless drivel. Again the first few times may be nice but once the discovery phase wears off mining is crap.

    Speaking of ore eles. Great feature. Great way to take a mindless activity and make it more entertaining. UO needs more of this.

    With a 12 year old game most of your customer base is vets. The discovery phase is gone. If you want people to keep playing then you have to mitigate the boring parts. Many aspects of the game worked in the past because they were novel. Now they're just bull****.

    Take imbuing. When I started training it I took it up into the 70s by unravelling and saving the materials. With about 2 gains per 40 items that's some 6000 items that I had to loot, dump in a container, and then run to the forge and unravel. This is a task a monkey could do. There is no game here. It's just a bull**** click fest. So I automated it.

    Now let's talk resource gathering. There's a lot of talk that scripting helps everyone except non-scripters who sell things. This is BS. Scripting helps everyone economywise. If scripting lowers the prices on comoddities then it lowers the price on everything since those commodities are used to aquire the other items in game. If the price of supplies goes up then the price of powerscrolls and arties goes up. Frankly that's the problem right there. Why the **** is are there not many options for belt worn items? Why is a crimie 20 mil? Because it's the only damn thing thing that can do what it does. It's rare. There's nothing else to spend money on so you end up with massive price increases. The blame here is squarely on the dev team. It's basic economics.

    People argue that it's not fair that the scripters can run 23 hours a day. This is nonsensical to me. What about the people who don't have jobs? Should I be angry at them and demanding that they be punished because they have 9-10 more hours a day to play for me? Anyone making this arguement is saying anyone who plays more than me and has more than me should be punished.

    It's not really a big deal. The number of scripters out there isn't that large. If it were prices would be a lot lower than they are now. There'd be a huge flood of items on the market with prices dropping to the floor.

    Scripting has been here since day 1. We just have a nice tool for it now. If it hasn't killed the game yet why will it now?
     
  41. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    "Resource gathering and leveling many of the skills is boring and pointless."


    I can understand that after 10 years or 11 years or 12 years of playing UO, you are bored.

    So here's an idea for you:

    Quit.

    Why hang around and screw up the game for others who haven't played for eons and eons like you have?

    Maybe veteran players are the real reason UO can't get and keep new players?
     
  42. frostbolt

    frostbolt Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    44
    ha ha ha..if u all think that scripting for skill-ing up, or resource gathering is the main cause that there are no new players coming to play this game you are ridiculously dense.

    It is because this game is old, its graphics do not appeal to the modern gamer, and the movement is clunky and choppy on the 2d client, the skill gain system is outdated. And there is no advertisement for this game at all.

    and really? you are telling more people to quit? as if this game isnt empty enough we also need the players to help kill this game more by encouraging others to leave

    I am a relatively new player myself compared to the rest of you and i must say that i would have found this game unplayable if not for 3rd party addons that reduce the amount of clicks i have to do.

    Not only this but i still refuse to do pvp in this game simply because of the clunkiness of the user interface, the movement lag, and the horrible targeting system.

    In fact i wouldnt even have known about this game if i didn't see it mentioned in the World of warcraft forums talking about how this was one of the original mmo's.

    Ill tell you how i came to play this game. The first time i tried this game was about 1 year or so years ago. The kingdom reborn client was still around and i decided to give it a try. Having played both the 2d client and the kingdom reborn client i decided to NOT play this game because it was so unfriendly to new players. There is no way that a new player could possibly get into a game where a mongbat regens faster than you can hit it for damage.

    I remember my first character from 1 year ago, it was a mage and i was casting magic arrows at a mongbat and between the fizzles and kiting, i was never able to bring it all the way down because it regen'd faster than i could do damage. The prospect of having to do this to get magery up to a level where it wont be useless was so daunting to me as a new player that after about one hour or so of being stuck in a building in New Haven i said screw it and quit the game

    a few months later i decided to give the free shards a try. The free shards introduced the 3rd party programs that worked like UO assist. It works similarly so i am told except that it allows a loop function which is why UO never approved of it. Anyways, it was through a free shard that allowed what you would call "unattended macroing" to gain skills that i decided to give the OSI shards another try using the same program to connect to OSI like you would with UO assist.

    Once i started playing this game on the OSI servers the person who helped me out while i was still new introduced me to the scripting programs which allowed me to train up my skills and get into the game that much faster.

    And no i dont unattended "script/macro" because i dont want my account banned but as you can see, getting into this game and keeping a sub for me at least would have been impossible if not for scripting and 3rd party programs.

    Finally on the topic of new players subs

    Ive shown this game to at least 4 or 5 friends of mine hoping that they would play with me as well. But i have got the same response from all of them. "I will not play a pixelated 2d game thats over ten years old."

    I guess the only reason i am here is because i enjoyed games like Baldur's gate, icewind dale, and planescape torment. and the idea that i dont have to constantly raid for high end gear in games like WoW appealed to me, although i keep subs for both games. They simply offer different things and UO does not have what most gamers want today.

    Maybe pvp scripting makes it so that people don't want to play but thats not what this thread is about. I would agree using scripts to cheat in pvp isn't cool and is comparable to using fly hacks in WoW arenas that is rampant on the test realm. It affects somebody because pvp is supposed to be a test of skill and gear against a group of players and having a speed hack makes it unfair. But using scripts to skill up and assist in mining and such? that affects NOBODY.

    If anything it makes your time and my time a lot easier because resources are a lot cheaper, and i dont want to hear the oh but it devalues the time of miners who dont script, because face it non scripting miners will never put out enough ore to supply an entire shard anyway and there are better ways to make gold in this game than sitting and clicking around a mining cave all day. And if you are going to argue that mining for hours is an enjoyable and fun minigame, then i will tell you that i find it enjoyable to watch paint dry and you can come play count the number of air bubbles in the drying paint with me.

    I dont even mine anymore at all. It is much more profitable to turn mined resources into something that will sell for 2x-3x the price. and for much less time.

    and how about that argument oh why are you still paying for a game that you dont even "play" cause you are afk all the time. I dont believe that statement. This game as far as i can see boils down to FOUR things that you can do.

    PVP
    PVM
    Gathering/crafting
    and RP

    only 3 of these REQUIRES you to be at your keyboard for obvious reasons. Gathering and Crafting enables you to do the other three things.

    But why should i spend 10 hours of nonstop clicking when i can do the same in half the time with only 1 mouse click? so that i can go and do the things that actually have a purpose and is enjoyable?

    Once all the scripters are gone, people like you will be like oh the economy is ruined! everything is soo expensive why is it that valorite ore which used to be 1 million gold per 5000 is now 1 million gold per 500?? Why is that crimson cincture that was 15 million over 30 million gold??

    But i guess legitimate miners and crafters are happy now right so that solves all the issues in the game and causes everyone who quit over the last 10 years to come back?

    No one would quit this game over someone else scripting to skill up, or attended resource gather, maybe even unattended resource gathering. PVP? Perhaps if thats the only thing that you enjoy doing in this game.

    But Face it, scripters will always be in this game. They are the backbone of the game's economy now, just like how the Gold and item selling sites dictate the prices of artifacts, gold, resources, etc.

    What you are asking for is like asking for Blizzard to ban D2JSP and botting in diablo 2. IT SIMPLY will not happen because these things are so tied into the game that if removed, even more people will probably quit.

    I know i will quit using the 2D client if i cant use my freeshard version of UO assist because i am not paying the UOA developers for a license to use their program that is only valuable because they are the only ones who got endorsed by EA.

    And i know that if the above were to come to pass i would probably never level another skill again. i simply refuse to spend my time manually clicking magic arrow 1000 times and then Heal 4000 times and so on to get a skill up to legendary.

    Here is a comic that is perfect for this discussion, for you people who think that it is fun doing repetitive tasks over and over again

    http://www.vgcats.com/super/?strip_id=31


    there really is no "what if there were no cheats"

    very few new people will play this game even if there were no cheating because no one even knows about this game anymore outside of the people who still play it.

    As a true new player the first thing you ask is most definitely not is this game cheat free. Its more like is this game fun? how easy is it to get into? and how long does it take for me to get to max level?

    And the answer would most likely be no in all 3 categories to the new generation of gamers today.

    And people who do stumble upon it by accident would probably think that its some kind of ancient game from long ago thats not worth paying a subscription for.

    I believe that in the eyes of most people who have never played any video games before the n64 or EQ1, and the old 2d computer games will not even take a second look at games like this. Personally i probably would not have forced myself to learn to play this game if i was not looking for something different, and was already used to the 2d video game style.

    Also from what ive been reading on these forums most veteran players quit because of AOS and the itemization overhaul. i highly doubt that the game suddenly becoming cheat free would suddenly bring these people back. Like previous posters said. if 6000 people were banned at once this game is dead. Those old players most likely have all moved on or are playing free shards now

    If anything some of the things that you call "cheats" are actually what makes this game playable for us "new" players who have not been playing it since the late 1990s -2000s and are used to games like WoW or EQ.

    what more you all should be glad this game still exists. how many MMO's are gone now? UO is still here, cheats, scripts or not please stop encouraging EA to make this game go under with these ridiculous notions that a mass banning or overhaul that causes macros and scripts to cease to exist will save the game, cause i want to play this game for a few more years and i worry more about this game being canceled than how much gold im loosing to an afk mining scripter. Stop worrying about what other people are doing just because it indirectly affects you and play your own game.

    Ahh and this brings to mind one of my favorite quotes from one of these anti scripters who ironically is a scripter herself.

    "oh but this scripter who is turning in things into the Museum will ruin the game for the rest of us because it will bump up the tier!"

    like yea ok having more items show up on display is going to ruin somebody elses game play makes perfect sense gg.
     
  43. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    Alex, is the answer "Methinks he doth protest too much"?


    "Ill tell you how i came to play this game. The first time i tried this game was about 1 year or so years ago. The kingdom reborn client was still around and i decided to give it a try. Having played both the 2d client and the kingdom reborn client i decided to NOT play this game because it was so unfriendly to new players."


    "I remember my first character from 1 year ago,..."


    "The prospect of having to do this to get magery up to a level where it wont be useless was so daunting to me as a new player that after about one hour or so of being stuck in a building in New Haven i said screw it and quit the game..."


    "...a few months later i decided to give the free shards a try."


    So you have played UO for less than a year...


    "I dont even mine anymore at all."


    "Also from what ive been reading on these forums most veteran players quit because of AOS and the itemization overhaul."


    "Ahh and this brings to mind one of my favorite quotes from one of these anti scripters who ironically is a scripter herself.

    "oh but this scripter who is turning in things into the Museum will ruin the game for the rest of us because it will bump up the tier!""


    Has anyone really cared about community collection tier levels vs scripters donating IN THE PAST YEAR since you claim you started playing UO to make the 'lady' scripter quote you mention?

    http://uo.stratics.com/content/ml/mondainslegacy.shtml

    I expect the lady scripter might have said that in the year 2005 when community collections first came out but not in the past year when barely anyone even donates anymore.

    Frostbolt
    "Join Date: Mar 2009
    Posts: 240"


    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1166171#post1166171


    Why is your post count unchanged from your March 19, 2009 post when you were a 'newb' asking for help over on Baja with the spellweaving quest?


    Nor does it change for your most recent post today...


    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1645050#post1645050


    Your long winded post of much knowledge of UO's faults has convinced me you are no newb but merely a self-confessed scripter looking for exoneration.

    May your search be as long as your post.
     
  44. frostbolt

    frostbolt Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    44
    ROFL do you know how idiotic you look right now

    08-10-2009, 08:16 AM #8
    XLaCeDX
    Journeyman

    Join Date: Aug 2009
    Posts: 202

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1346300#post1346300

    lack of coherent logic much? lots of assumption?

    OH how is it possible that your post count was 240 in March 2009 yet it is still 240 after making this post??

    why it must be because, your post count gets updated on this site everytime you post!

    Why I MUST have made 240 posts within 18 days of joining this forum
    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1166171#post1166171

    also no one really cares about community collections? are you joking me no one donates? my shard hosts donations every week to the zoo

    you really need to get your facts straight before making yourself look stupid

    oh look my post count is 241 now! on everything

    oh and if anyone were still a newb after 6 months of playing on payed shards and 2 months of playing on a free shard then well, there is no hope for them in any task they hope to do ever.

    can't pick at my arguments so instead you try and derail my thread by discrediting me? ad hominem
     
  45. XLaCeDX

    XLaCeDX Guest

    Let me see if I can condense your 'arguments' for you into one sentence:


    UO stinks (old, tedious, etc) so you won't pay EA $12.99 a month to play it unless you are allowed to continue to break the rules?

    I bet you say that to all the games...
     
  46. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,881
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    I think this has gone on long enough.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.