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About Test Center! And Its Policing!

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Omnicron, Jun 2, 2008.

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  1. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I know its test center, and its not GM patrolled for the most part, but is really necessary to build houses with schwastikas on the roof? I mean people are taking their "freedom" too far imo. I would like to see those houses removed. The house is running west from yew gate fel side.
     
  2. packrat

    packrat Guest

    I agree.. If it offends people, it has to go. We have enough trouble keeping membership in UO. We dont need anything else to turn people away..
    Did you report it? they usually respond quick to things like that.
     
  3. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I mean, im not easily offended, i just think its kids blatently abusing the system. THAT is what makes me sick. Not really the symbol itself, even though its so not cool, its just the kiddos that have to do that stuff...
     
  4. There should be "hot topic" things that GMs should INSTANTLY report for. And we can even have a policy that people who cry wolf and page falsely can be suspended... but there are two that should go to the top of the queue:

    1 - Obvious cheating in progress. (ie obvious unattended stripmining)
    2 - Hateful imagery and words (I remember on Catskills seeing two PKs with the titles "Gew Stomper" and "Kiek Kicker" and I paged, to no response)
     
  5. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I just cant see why that would be allowed.
     
  6. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
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    http://www.kamat.com/indica/culture/sub-cultures/swastika.htm

    It is unlikely that it is used in this context within UO (by players at least), but actually the shape itself is the ancient holy symbol which supports the wellbeing of all mankind. (See link)

    Certain people in the 1940's certainly did ruin the world image of what seems to be a perfectly wonderful symbol.
     
  7. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest


    I myself knew it had a longer history with a greator meaning , but Hitler ruined it , along with skinny mustaches.
     
  8. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    I agree with Pete there, its a holy symbol abused by the nazi regime. Please post a picture of the house, its context may reveal its real use here.
     
  9. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    GM's won't do anything, call corporate and threaten to sue them to hell and back.
     
  10. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    for Salivern Diego, context.....

    [​IMG]

    and yes, that's me in a lovely shade of grey.... I predict all will be wearing this color come fall
     
  11. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I know its a holy symbol..I'm not that naive. but this is clearly not the intended reason. And we've had this discussion before, with the same remarks..its a holy symbol blah blah blah...

    We all know its been ruined and what it represents.
     
  12. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    It's test shard, who cares...


    Don't let them succeed in thier intentions of offending people. (Not on a tet shard at least..._
     
  13. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
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    Problem is, you can find something that offends someone somewhere. Should we remove the ability to eat meat because it offends someone? How about the use of Magic? Surely that'll offend someone, not even mentioning Necromancy. Have to remove books because I'm sure someone has written something that someone else doesn't like.

    Where does one draw the line? Great thing about freedom really. While that symbol may be displayed and in poor taste, I can't think of a single valid reason why anyone should be sanctioned/banned 'etc for it. At least in the states, there's a very good reason displaying such a thing isn't illegal, it's because everyone has the freedom to make an ass outa themselves. As it should be really *grins*

    ~Rai
     
  14. Raider Red

    Raider Red Seasoned Veteran
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    true where do we draw the line, ut this one should be a perma ban.Eveyone knows that this symbols means hatred and racism.It is used to promote anti-semitism and anti black plus it was the symbol of an army the murdered 6 million men women and CHILDREN under the guise of natinal unity and purity.

    This falls under the same rules that you cant name a char after a mass murder r well know cult leaders.
     
  15. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    How about the fact that kids play this game?

    It's not hard to draw a line. While i do agree that just about anything can be deemed offensive there are some things that are beyond poor taste and just over the top offensive/vulgar and they should be dealt with as such.

    Unfortunately, Test isn't supported for obvious reasons and people use that to their advantage so don't expect anyone to do anything about that.

    From now on expect to see the ugly side of the internet there.
     
  16. Beerman72

    Beerman72 Visitor

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    I am in agreement that certain things must be removed in certain cases. In the sense of fairness though its hard to say true intent without speaking to the owner, This is a very sensitive topic, and as such the subject matter needs to be handled with care. The reason behind this is context makes the difference behind weather this is allowable or not. If the player in question is of Indican descent or perhaps uses the symblol in ther religion, do we chastize and ban them for displaying a symbol they are proud of? That is despite what some SOB did some 60 years ago?

    Honestly alot of things offend me these days looking at our society. However you will not see me pulling people aside IRL to tell them to stop doing something freedom allows them the ability to express. To walk on the freedoms of speech and of expression is walk on freedom itself, and isnt that what Hitler himself did?

    No flames please, as my above statement is completely objective.
     
  17. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    What is Indican?

    Either way, i don't feel this videogame is anywhere to project your beliefs onto others. Even as a christian i could completely agree with them removing a picture of JC because it has no place here. This also goes for "Vote [insert your candidate here]" and anything like that. I like being able to promote my guild on top of my house and such and it would be a shame to see that feature taken away because of people taking advantage of it. I think you should keep everything not game related out of the game.
     
  18. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    *yawns*

    I know its easy to get off topic, but sheesh. This topic is about people abusing their freedoms such as running around shouting completely vulgar language and racist comments everywhere they go. The schwastika on the roof was just an example. We all know it happens, people abuse their freedom just because they know they can get away with in on TC.
    We know where UO draws the line, thats not what this post is about and there is no point in arguing over it since people will believe only what they choose to believe. Its an argument with no end.
    The problem is that there is no one policing the activities and harassments that go on in the Test Center. I do believe that there should be at least one person to try and keep people in line and prevent the kids on there from slandering and purposefully trying to offend people. Its juts immature and completely offensive at times to see how some people choose to act on the Test Center just because they know they can get away with it.
     
  19. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Agreed.
    Were this A for adult then we would see plenty of that (non-immersive) malarky.
    Yet, this is T for teen, so that is uncalled for and just asking for trouble.
    But I wonder how much weight that has for our GMs?
    As bad as the imagery is,
    Might there be more pressing matters at hand?
    Dunno.

    (Last I saw they stole that anyway. I thought the propaganda was interesting. They took something that ~always meant 'good' and ab used it for bad.)
     
  20. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    How do you justify eating meat or using magic in the same way as a Nazi and their beliefs...

    My main point was, people on test center, should still be held accountable for their actions. I not saying people shouldnt be able to do stuff, but come on, some stuff goes to far. I saw people "R wording" people "left and right." It just gets a little outta hand really.
     
  21. Beerman72

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    Honestly though, this is a matter of freedom and everything it entails. IF you are bored with the discussion then please dont troll just to get a response. (the *yawn* in your post says it all) No but seriously, I dont know you and have no idea of your intent so I cannot make an informed decision of your intent. This matter being discussed is no different.

    To the person who mentioned this being a teen game, that really is a poor excuse to censor content. After all, to play this game requires payment, which for the most part requires a credit card, which in turn requires an adult to authorize. Moot point. In addition, I had a bigger potty mouth at three than I do now at 36. So whats inappropriate to whom? The child or the parent?

    I am more offended with the idea of someone asking for censorship than I am about the so-called offending individual. Freedom to our nation came at a great cost, so to upset that balance due to uneducated opinion would just be ludicrous.

    Oh and *Indican*...my apologies...my mind was obviously involved in my bowl of illegally grown legally smoked weed. (say that two times fast!) Yes illegally grown legally smoked...does that hint at all to the readers how ludicrous this matter really is?

    Edit: Did any of yuo consider the reasoning behind thier placement of such *offendable* material might have been specific in nature? Perhaps to open floor here to debate and criticism? Who knows. I certainly dont, therfor I have no right to be judgemental under our constitutional guise of freedom.
     
  22. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    Swastikas are a religious and good symbol, not hateful in nature. Here's an article from about.com about the symbol...

    "The Oldest Known Symbol

    The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Artifacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE.

    During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe. By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names:

    * China - wan
    * England - fylfot
    * Germany - Hakenkreuz
    * Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
    * India - swastika

    Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also have long used the symbol of the swastika.

    The Original Meaning

    The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

    Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

    Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.

    A Change in Meaning

    In the 1800s, countries around Germany were growing much larger, forming empires; yet Germany was not a unified country until 1871. To counter the feeling of vulnerability and the stigma of youth, German nationalists in the mid-nineteenth century began to use the swastika, because it had ancient Aryan/Indian origins, to represent a long Germanic/Aryan history.

    By the end of the nineteenth century, the swastika could be found on nationalist German volkisch periodicals and was the official emblem of the German Gymnasts' League.

    In the beginning of the twentieth century, the swastika was a common symbol of German nationalism and could be found in a multitude of places such as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth movement; on Joerg Lanz von Liebenfels' antisemitic periodical Ostara; on various Freikorps units; and as an emblem of the Thule Society.

    ....

    What Does the Swastika Mean Now?

    There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate.

    These conflicting meanings are causing problems in today's society. For Buddhists and Hindus, the swastika is a very religious symbol that is commonly used. Chirag Badlani shares a story about one time when he went to make some photocopies of some Hindu Gods for his temple. While standing in line to pay for the photocopies, some people behind him in line noticed that one of the pictures had a swastika. They called him a Nazi.

    Unfortunately, the Nazis were so effective at their use of the swastika emblem, that many do not even know any other meaning for the swastika. Can there be two completely opposite meanings for one symbol?

    In ancient times, the direction of the swastika was interchangeable as can be seen on an ancient Chinese silk drawing.

    Some cultures in the past had differentiated between the clockwise swastika and the counter-clockwise sauvastika. In these cultures the swastika symbolized health and life while the sauvastika took on a mystical meaning of bad-luck or misfortune.

    But since the Nazis use of the swastika, some people are trying to differentiate the two meanings of the swastika by varying its direction - trying to make the clockwise, Nazi version of the swastika mean hate and death while the counter-clockwise version would hold the ancient meaning of the symbol, life and good-luck."


    http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

    There are many, many more articles out there about this symbol. Don't let one "evil" man/group determine what's "true" about something.... After all Bush doesn't make "democracy" evil does he?........ But that's a whole new can of worms.
     
  23. Mayadevi

    Mayadevi Guest

    Among the people it's a holy symbol for are us Hindu's. It's actually a nice lovey fluffy symbol.

    Unfortunately being a nice lovely fluffy symbol, doesn't do a lot of good, if it scares the snot out of someone or brings back really painful memories. :(
    there are actually players in this game old enough to HAVE those sorts of memories.

    I really pisses me off that the nice lovely fluffy symbol of all things good and happy got messed with to such an extant. :mad::mad:

    I've been on test recently, as well as a few other shards so I don't remember, if test was the place I saw "Nazzi (Something) That really pissed me off.

    *sighs* So I 'spose the nice lovely fluffy symbol ought to go :( Even if Sosaria isn't where it got corrupted. We're 'sposed to be having fun, Genocide isn't any fun.

    Mayadevi (who hopes people won't chastise those who follow Santana Dharma for using that symbol for several thousand years before it got corrupted, but thinks it may not part of that Dharma to go upsetting people with it )
     
  24. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Get over yourself.

    There is alot in the real world to take offence to; but this is a game.

    I swear that you people live la la land.
     
  25. Jahira-Tor

    Jahira-Tor Lore Master
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    I dont see how its clearly not the intended reason they have it displayed. If i saw it id first off think it was ment to be the spiritual symbol. I think your being too sensative.
     
  26. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    Word... The freakin shard/server is located in the US, supposedly land of the free. Just because "Nazi" or "hate" comes to your mind first, doesn't mean it's the intention of the person who portrayed the symbol.
     
  27. Saris

    Saris Guest

    Hmmm If indeed they offend you, got 2 choices page on them or ignore them.

    I dont relay get offended at all over almost anything unless it is personal attack.

    One week ago someone in game I know had to change their char name on the spot form "Left Nut" lol

    Hitler did not ruin anything the 2 symbols look differnent and many hindi and other races use it.

    My old bosses wife put one on the door step completely unkown of the poo it was gonna cuase lol.

    She was hindi

    BTW best thing I ever heard in my life"You must choose to be offended"

    I dont buy the pain from that long ago, old memories dont have feeling, at least for me, only the fresh (4-5years) do, though I have never been to a death camp , so maybey im wrong.

    Left Nut is funny btw and I dont think it should have been changed, to see it as a testicel is to have ones mind in the gutter.

    3 years ago my freind named his new red after a rl mass murderer and got banned

    Paging does work but I dont know about test shard.

    If my post is confusing, sorry my brain has seen better days
     
  28. Beerman72

    Beerman72 Visitor

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    Heh...no kidding. I am the bad guy for upholding some guys country given right to display a *fluffy symbol.* I think our vets would get a kick out of how someone gets offended by the very thing they fought to uphold. No not the swastika but freedom. These people who are so downtrodden by offensive materials really ought to (like you say) step out and take notice of the real world around us. The sunshine and fresh air would also do them good, nad help clear thier minds of this nonsensical drivel.

    Edit: It just came to me how rediculous again this whole topic really is. The people in the states are getting so worried about others doings but yet our own youth are taking a huge dump from a grades standpoint, from a legal standpoint, and from a responsibility standpoint. We allow them to live under the tutilage of games and television...instead of the home movies, family dinners, and board games we were priveledged with as kids of the 70s. Those simple things taught us social skills, teamwork, and a desire to do what is right for those around us (understanding and compassion). So please, what is more offensive? Letting our future become less social and active beings or our own selfish desire to squelch the very fabric of our nations being?
     
  29. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    I see crosses in UO all the time, can it be offensive? To some, yes..

    I see bad language in UO all the time, can it be offensive?

    I see pentagrams and altars in UO, can that be offensive?

    It absolutley can... My point is though, if everyone got banned when they offended someone, then a lot of us would be banned from UO.. Deal with it, you have the right to be offended, but it is not a crime to offend someone, otherwise we just because a police state, which is not what UO is based on, or what it is about..

    There is nothing wrong with Swatika's anyways, they are found in much art and architecture, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and many arabhamic religons, just like crosses... The earliest consistent use of swastika motifs in the archaeological record date to the Neolithic period..
     
  30. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    Censorship by a government or community is one thing, having people follow a Rules of Conduct is another thing:

    "You may not use any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player."

    A online game is like a public club which can choose any rules concerning conduct. The Boy Scouts can disciminate against gays, athiests, and Unitarians according to the Supreme Court despite getting some really sweet perks paid for with tax dollars because they are a private club. If people have the freedom to form clubs that exclude certain people, why don't those of us who find the genocide of millions of people distasteful lose that "freedom?"
     
  31. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Okay, well i get the point you all are making. Really, the swastika dosnt offend me. In fact I never said it did. My whole point here test just needs some policing. Rather its symbols, language, hackers, or what ever that maybe need some looking into. Yes, the states are a "free" country. But unfortuneatly uo isnt.

    actually, i dont really care. uhall has some of the most diverse posters around. it seems they are always split 50/50. My main goal of the post was too see everyones stand on the subject...i knew there would be the people who hated it, and then the ones who celebrate or back it up. :stir:
     
  32. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I just want to say:

    It doesn't matter if your religion symbol is a plus sign or a [member of the male anatomy], just keep it out of the game. If you want to sit there and write books and keep them to yourself or make shrines in your private house then that is fine. When you put something on a rooftop you force your beliefs onto anyone who just so happens to look at the HUD and it's wrong.
     
  33. AEowynSP

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  34. Beerman72

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    Ok, so you are saying that 500+ years of the symbol being a good thing has no bearing on its meaning? Are you next going to tell me its ok to ban the peace symbol because a few morons decided to use it as a gang symbol? While your logic may *sound* good it is rather flawed due to this principle.
     
  35. Beerman72

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    If it didnt offend you, then why put such a thread up on the boards? In your opening statement youi even mentioned that the TS needed more policing DUE to the sign on the roof and activity like it. If you werent offended why would you lie and say you were? Your goal had nothing to do with seeing reaction, because if that ws indeed the intent you would have made your post without opinion or thought on the matter. You would have left the idea open to discussion instead of leaning into the conversation and saying *psst..can you believe this poop?*

    Not being a jerk here, but the bait and switch toipc is just another way of opening up the negative can of worms here on the boards. Also it is another example of why its important for us to play our own games, and not spend so much time on everyone elses. In the end it wastes my time, it wastes your time, it wastes the GMs time, and last but not least it wastes the devs time looking into this crap.

    So good job on wasting my time and money just so you could get a rise out of the populace. Thats my two pennies.

    BTW...I'M JEWISH!!!! HOW ABOUT YOU OP?
     
  36. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I'm white. What does it matter? I don't have to be Jewish or black for me to think Nazism is just lame sauce. You got your panties ruffled. You posted your opinion, good job. I wanted people to see the bs that goes on on test center. Again, the symbols don't bother me. Its the lack of enforcement that gets me. I know its test, but allowing people to spew hate gets me a little irked, not offended. Trust me I have a potty mouth at times. And Ive seen things on the local news more tragic than some moron making a swastika on their virtual home. So, before you act like you know me or where I'm coming from, check yourself.

    And on a side note, I know swastikas were a symbol of love and friendship before the Nazi's did their thing. But the fact is, the swastika is known world wide NOW for hate and death.

    I'm sure if some gang bangers made the peace sign their logo it would ruffle peoples feathers, but probably wouldn't change the public view because it wasn't used as propaganda for a regime that killed over 6 million people...a little different don't you think?

    And go back and read my first couple posts, no where did I say I was offended. I just dont think people should be able to go nuts on Test Center...cause that crap always gets back into production shards...
     
  37. Beerman72

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    Ignorance is bliss eh? Please go back and reread the last paragraph in the quoted post. You clearly say you didnt get offended but show your true colors in the very next sentence. Your frustration is obvious to anyone with intelligence.

    Btw...as a Jewish person in this country dont you think I should be the one to judge weather I see the swastika as an evil or good symbol? After all it was my grandfather who left with my father to America while my grandmother was marched off to die. You sir I am offended with because you are trying to force me to share your thoughts on the swastika being a sign of hatred. Thats ********, as the real culprits were the nazis...and the symbols had nothing to do with the acts.

    In regards to your thoughts on things getting into productions shards I call bullcrap, as the only reason things get brought to prodo shards is because some idiot allowed it to get under thier skin on the boards. If you never would have even brought it up and just reported it as per the rules no one would have cared. So by definition you opened the very can of worms you are trying to throw out! WELL DONE!
     
  38. Orvago

    Orvago Stratics' Finest
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    Sorry, religious debates/discussions do not belong in UO Stratics.

    However, I will offer this:

    If you believe the Swastika house is used as a sign of "Nazi" then you have the Ultima Online Rules of Conduct to fall upon:

     
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    • Premium background themes to choose from
    • Access to additional features of the Classifieds System
    • Ability to Customize Your User Title
    • No Post Delays
    • Additional Signature Allowances:
    • Special Professional Banner Display with your Account
    • PM Allowance Upgrade
    • Additional Thread Allowances
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