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Accounts Terminated...uo.com news...Jeremy Dalberg 04 Aug 2008 13:25:35

Discussion in 'UHall' started by THP, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Accounts Terminated
    Jeremy Dalberg 04 Aug 2008 13:25:35
    Over the weekend, a number of accounts associated with creating and trading duped items have been banned. We take all forms of cheating extremely seriously, especially cheats that affect the in game economy and devalue the hard work of honest players. We will never stop investigating and solving these issues, and appreciate very much those of you who contribute to the fight against cheating.

    If your account was affected and you need more information, please fill out the form here.
     
  2. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    u missed the link to the form

    But for me it didnt work: the same canned response over and over.
    Looks like EA is not willing (or able) to give hard facts on my case :(
     
  3. Kurgan

    Kurgan Guest

    Let the crying begin.... :sad3: :violin:
     
  4. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
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    I just want to know when they are going to actually fix the duping bugs....

    ~Rai
     
  5. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Aye, if they aren't fixed, this is just a bandaid to the real problem.
     
  6. too late ... look around. it already has.
     
  7. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    yeah that's the real problem here. it is sad they spend so much time trying to low level people when they should have fixed the bugs or prevented them from happening in the first place.
     
  8. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    We don't warn dupers before fixing dupes. That includes doing a mass ban before the bug is fixed.
     

  9. So is there another round to this? I mean you missed some of the most obvious ones. I am not talking about Bod dupers either.
     
  10. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Maybe the last dupe bugs was a trap to catch the dupers and traders :lick:
     
  11. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    Nice work - My Skill in trusting EAMythic has just risen from 0,00 to 0,01.
     
  12. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    But would u at least please answer the begs of ppl who feel like they were innocently banned?
    Or tell customerservice to do so?
    Or tell me, that u checked my case and that you are convinced im guilty?

    I feel left alone!
    Call support (actually as a european i have to pay for this)
    ==> was told to use the form
    ==> got a (canned?) response
    ==> asked for details
    ==> got the same response

    Plus i sent a PM and email to you, that hasnt been answered yet.
    Not even a single "stop contacting me please"

    To whom can i speak?
     
  13. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    is that supposed to be some kind of deterrent? i don't get it. shouldn't the dupe bugs be fixed as quick as possible? do you take pleasure in banning people? that is like throwing a coke dealer in jail. 2 more coke dealers will take his place.
     
  14. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    word !

    I totaly agree...
    They will never win from the dupers unless they fix the root of this problem...wich is the bug causing this.
     
  15. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    if they didn't allow the dupe bugs into the game there would be no dupers. don't you get it? i realize this is a video game but this would be a textbook civil rights violation if this was IRL.
     
  16. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Just because you know a dupe exist, doesn't mean you know how to fix it immediately.

    And there is nothing wrong with tracking the people using the dupe until the fix is out there and banned their sorry asses.
     
  17. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    drinkbeerallday, I think you're misreading me. Fixing the dupe is the first priority, and we do that as soon as possible.

    The reason we try not to warn the dupers that it's going to be fix is it tends to lead to "OMG we have 5 hours before server down must dupe NOW" behavior, which we don't want to encourage.
     
  18. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    ......We don't warn dupers before fixing dupes. That includes doing a mass ban before the bug is fixed.......

    --------------------------------------------------------

    banning this scum is the best bug fix
    those banning days are always funny days for me, and the following
    " a fried was unguilty banned..." or " i only bought 50 valo hammer, and couldnt know they are duped " posts makes always fun

    LOL

    hey scum player, servus and ciao, we DONT miss you

    LOL
     
  19. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
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    :confused:

    Just a thought...maybe you should only drink beer for part of the day.

    -Skylark
     
  20. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    maybe you should quit drinking EA's Kool-Aid and realize that cheaters are always going to be a part of this game. the way to control cheating is to fix the bugs so that the cheaters can not cheat. massive bannings are only for show and to appease people like you and distract from the real issue. banning someone for picking up val hammers at an IDOC or buying them off a vendor is completely unfair.

    the important that is that little 14 year old Bobby can't dupe. once you take that away from him he will go back to farming Doom arties or griefing Trammelites. if you ban him he's just going to buy an account and keep on playing until the next dupe or cheat comes along.
     
  21. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Hmm... I uderstand the approach of 1st Fixing the dupe then 2nd Banning the dupers, but in this case fixing the dupe took Waaaaay to long. If your choices were to

    Ban 1st and Fix 2nd
    OR
    Wait long enough for the economy to be destroyed and Fix 1st / Ban 2nd..

    I'd go with the one that doesn't let the duped items into the game for a month....I don't know how difficult it was to track all this etc, but I imagine it was easier than fixing the bug. If at the first hint of duping going on you straight out banned associated accounts I bet ALOT less duping would have occurred while you worked on the solution to the problem..
     
  22. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
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    Okay so you don't warn dupers, no biggie either way.

    However, to the best of my knowledge there are still at LEAST 7 Dupe Bugs that have been, according to these forums, in game and known to Mythic since February. The last Server Patch was 15th July, so basically your banning people for holes that haven't been fixed? How is this priority? Is your 'soon as possible' truly longer than a half of a year? Are you actually going to be fixing the bugs, that if you'd fixed them when you should have, wouldn't be causing people to be afraid of playin the darn game?

    It's gotten to the point of being absolutely ridiculous now, and all we get from Mythic is that you don't warn dupers, and that your meantime to fix severe bugs is probably a year after they've been reported?

    ~Rai
     
  23. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Okay, so Jeremy. I understand you're really getting a lot of the brunt of this... but seriously I would like you to answer two questions that I know a lot of people have.

    How do we as players know which items are or are not dupes?

    What items can NOT be duped?

    We can't go by price because let's face it nothing stops the dupers from raising their prices to look more legit or that people are buying them low and reselling them.

    The only way safe is to make sure we get them ourselves... so we just took the multi-player out of UO and made it a single player game.

    I know a lot of you enjoy this game, but this only adds to the reasons me and many others are leaving.

    What I used to enjoy...

    Casual hunting... changes to BoS killed that for me. I used to hunt Miasmas and Dark wisps and now I have to leave every few kills before I am overloaded. An' they aren't locations where I can just "recall out and back".

    Mining/LJing... I actually enjoy relaxing in something that doesn't take a lot of thinking at times (why I enjoyed solo hunting). Oh wait, I can do that, but the resources are now worthless because its all random and scripters STILL have the advantage as far as gathering.

    RPing... no more support for rp guilds or rping. New contentis mainly a goodie, eye candy fest. (Still can't figure out the rp reason why we turn in moldy ophidian rations and would take a bird's nest).

    Being a merchant... can no longer buy low and sell high as many merchants do because I won't know if what I'm buying is a dupe. Heck, I imagine the amount of sales will drop as people will be scared of the same thing as there is NO WAY FOR US TO TELL what are dupes and what isn't.

    Okay, IDOCs... its like a morning surprise xmas. Damn wait, anything I get from them now might be duped...

    Okay, okay... I can still PvP right? Oh damn... I forgot... in order to compete against other pvps even remotely I need to have good gear. Well can't buy the items from vendors... so any artifacts I need I have to spend weeks in Doom for the random chance of getting, or do BoDs... oh wait, I forgot.. in order to do bods I need to open a bunch more accounts for bodlings in order to get the bods I need as I shouldn't be buying/trading bods as they might be duped ones. Don't forget about having to spend weeks and weeks getting the resources to train the bod chars as we shouldn't buy deeded resources as they might be duped...

    I realize Jeremy you are only the messenger and probably aren't involved in making these calls, but seriously please find out the answers for us. Are we going to be reverted back into an essentially single player type game where we don't dare buy/sell to other players? Is the only way we can get the items we want is to get them ourselves? That's semi-feasible in some screwed up way (i.e many, many, many hours/days/wks) for items that still spawn. What about the ones that don't? Rares, tokuno dyes, tokuno arties, ticket turn-ins, etc... some are just eye candy but some give an advantage to pvp/pvm.

    An for those that think that the duping is only the high-end stuff, you're mistaken. If they aren't already duping the lower end stuff, they will. Its pure profit for them so even though they wouldn't be making a lot it won't matter. So even non high-end stuff won't be safe (if it already isn't.).
     
  24. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest


    HOLY CRAP STOP WHINING. You have posted in every damn thread about this crap. Its apparent your wrong. You participated in one way or another. Your not getting your crap back just deal with it and move on. Before you say what if it happened to me. Guess what? It didnt i bought nothing. Im not stupid. vals at 15mil omg sell me sell me.

    Actual question for jeremy though. What if these people bought/duped hammers and burned them? Is there any course of action to be taken against them? I know of a guild that burned val hammers for almost 2 hours making armor. Yet these people did not have the hammers on them when you did the bannings as they arent stupid and instead of hoarding them they used them. Will anything happen to these people? Is there a way to track this issue? With val hammers able to make insane pieces and gurantee mage armor its disgusting what some of these guys suits have on it.
     
  25. BartofCats

    BartofCats Guest

    lets see... by your thinking, if I go pick up 50 duped hammers at an IDOC, that doesnt make me guilty, but if i go buy 50 of them at the vendor im not guilty either.... ok...

    a plane flys overhead and drops 50 pounds of drugs into your yard... the cops come by and charge you with possession of stolen property and possession of drugs. Why are you not guilty again?? im sorry your civil rights BS excuse doesnt wash. Guilty is guilty. If you dont like it, Jeremy linked the site in her post.

    Jeremy.. tell the dev team they did a fine job. Pat them on the back and buy em all a round of donuts.
     
  26. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    We are alot who would never dupe or do other exploits even if we know how to do it. If you give me a gun, I won't shut anyone but if I did, I would be the one to blame, not you

    This anti-social parasites will always find a way to abuse the game. They don't care about the game or about others. They will dupe/exploite if they can, they will gank to farm most scrolls from the spawn, they will do anything to get what they want.

    They destroy the game, no matter what EA do to stop them. I'm very happy to see the bans and I doubt they did delete innocent players houses
     
  27. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    it's more important that no innocents are punished than if one criminal stays free.
     
  28. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    so take the servers down without telling anyone.
     
  29. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Sometimes we do that, sometimes we publish over maintenance, sometimes we roll it in to a regular publish. Depends on the actual exploit fix.
     
  30. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
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    It was your bizarre civil rights reference that prompted my comment. How do you get a civil rights issue out of this, and how can you relate sloppy coding to any aspect of real life other than poor product quality?

    -Skylark
     
  31. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    If you resell the hammers no matter how you got them or resell the items made from them, you are guilty. You should had called a gm and asked him to take a look at them.

    If a plane flys overhead and drops 50 pounds of drugs into your yard, you are only guilty if you resell the drugs or use them, not if you call the cops to take care of them.
     
  32. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    The only thing this "deterrent" does for me is makes me not want to deal with players at all. Makes me want to fire up a new account strictly for buying stuff:loser:

    According to EA's logic on this is if I happen to save my money to buy an item below cost that might be duped, I'll be banned and lose all my stuff:coco:

    Nothing happened to me on this because I don't change my chars every other day and so I don't need more equipment.

    I do know one guy who was banned because he is a heavy trader... and he is not one of the huge dealers out there.:coco:

    As usual, EA dropped the ball on this. There is definitely some people who were banned unjustly and yet with their "ban and drop their house" BS, there isn't even a chance to clear up the wrongfully banned people. Way to go EA:mad: Thank god police aren't like EA otherwise they'd instantly execute people and then try to see if they are guilty:coco:
     
  33. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    None of us know the cause of the dupe. Fixing the dupe isn't just as easy as applying a bandaid (kludge) and magically fixing everything. They have to figure out why the code is allowing dupes to get made in the first place and then test the heck out of their fix to make sure it doesn't introduce a new and possibly worse problem.

    For example, they could apply a fix to this problem only to discover that their fix also crashes servers (which can introduce other dupes).

    As for tracking the current duping, I'd imagine they're doing that in the database. It's probably pretty simple to track the quantities of specific items that a given person has with the use of SQL queries.

    I suspect the reason they chose to ban now (and probably again later) was that the duped items are getting spread around too rapidly. They created a setback and probably scared people out of buying the duped items while the devs get the dupe fixed. They also showed us that they meant what they said when they told us not to buy stuff from the wrong places.
     
  34. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Sarphus, the dupe is fixed. Has been for a while now.
     
  35. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    Actually, reselling dupes is even worse than duping because it difuses the problem. Instead of the devs being able to just chop off the problem at its source, they end up banning people who may have bought items at market value from a reseller.

    Resellers aren't doing any of us favors...
     
  36. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    We will always have alot crying innocent.
     
  37. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    So that fiasco with that guy Coranthe (spelling?) and the "duping" website was a hoax? Because it wasn't that long ago. He said he had multiple duping methods... did you look into them and found that they do not work? I admit I don't read Stratics a lot as I don't have the time, but I think it would reassure a lot of people to know "there hasn't been any working methods in x months." The way he was talking.. it was like we've had unfixed duping for 6+ months and with more and more suspicious items coming up on Luna vendors it seems as if it has been a growing problem.
     
  38. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    This is my first foray into the sordid mess of posts which have followed EAs' actions.

    I'm not going to get into the "XXXXX must be innocent 'cos he's such a nice chap ingame", but I do have a couple of questions:


    1) Several of the "banned" have said that they still have active accounts which share ISP / credit card information with the accounts which have been hit.
    It is my understanding that when an account is perma-banned, ALL associated accounts are also kicked.
    Are these posters lying, or is this just a half-hearted attempt to remove cheats. You don't have to name names, but just give us an assurance that you have followed your own ToS.

    2) Where do the boundaries lie? I have quite a few BRKs at home; some self earned, but mostly bought at a reasonable price from vendors. Am I at risk? How many "possibly duped" items is the threshold?

    3) Why was this policy not used with regard to Vinecord Sandals? The only legitimate sandals went AWOL ages ago; thus EVERYBODY who had a pair could be said to have supported duping, yet their only punishment was to have the properties removed.

    4) As above, but with coloured shrouds.




    Sorry if the last two points look like I'm supporting the dupers, but I fail to see any consistency in EAs' actions in this round of "punish the dupers" and the last two rounds.
     
  39. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I love it when people show this kind of ignorance....

    If throwing 1 coke dealer in jail replaces him with 2, then the US would have had a population that was 100% coke dealers by 1990.
    1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, 65536, yada, yada, yada.... 32 sets of arrests equal more than the population of the US.

    I personally LIKE that the bannings occurred before the removal of the dupe methods - it gives the dupers more chances to identify themselves to EA, and get shut down on the accounts of theirs that weren't caught by the ban's first wave. Just follow the path of the duped merchandise that went from duping accounts to others. Only, in this case, it's following the merchandise from the duper main accounts, to others that will also need banned.

    In their panic to hide stuff, the dupers effectively were leaving trails to the places they hide their stuff - much like you "turn" a low-level pusher to lead you to the supplier. You got to let the product flow a little while after the initial bust to build the case on the supplier.
     
  40. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Are you sure about that? EA just started to remove OSI owned houses. Maybe they made a way to store this houses and the new banned houses so they can replace them or at least give back the items if someone was banned unjustly.

    Code for house packing could also be useful if they are going to merge shards.
     
  41. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    True true..i saw this guys post...he found SIX methods to dupe.
    And he confessed that he tried 3 of them..and they worked...and that post was posted not so long ago...

    True...i don't see any decrease either.
    yesterday someone posted screenies of a guy who had vendors in Luna on several shards...
    After the bug was ''fixed''...this guy was/is running more then 5 vendors with 50 barbed kits in them...and restocking.

    This guy has at least 250 barbed runic kits in total...ON his vendors...
     
  42. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
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    You know I appreicate you and the rest of the team regardless of my feelings about EA's management at times. With that being said, I know for a fact that you banned at least one person and probably more who had nothing to do with it. I just hope it all gets sorted out. I do appreciate the efforts to solve the problem; I am just concerned that it seems the baby might have gone out with the bathwater.

    Up until today I was very skeptical about claims of innocence. Now I am not because I know the person it happened to outside of the game. She's probably the last person to ever cheat at the game.

    Good luck getting things sorted out one way or another.
     
  43. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    Speaking as a programmer now; not as a victim.

    Restoring the houses would be almost impossible. Guess some legit player did visit the place of a deleted house and just placed his dreamhouse.
    How to tell him that his legal house needs to be removed.
    That wont work!

    But returning the items that have been in the house should (technically) be possible. I am quite sure there are database-backups for several days back.
    And most likely they made an extra backup to proof which items were inside for later refferences.
     
  44. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    Look, if you were banned, then you deserved it, doesnt matter if you only had one duped item you didnt know was duped, you most likely bought the item at a steal of a price and should have been wary. So learn something from it and start over, or if you refuse to admit you were wrong you can play something else. Essentially what I'm saying is Stop Crying over a game.
     
  45. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    Yes theres backups of days past but why waste the man power and time to throw backups onto a internal test shard just to prove the bannings were just. Move on.
     
  46. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Sure it could not be placed in same spot, but EA do have some spots saved for future use so it should be possible to place the house, just not in old spot.
     
  47. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    It would not be wasted.
    In Rl -at least in germany- there is some kind of rule in the justice:

    Innocent until proven

    And without such a proof, an example, a detailed reason those ppl who feel innocent should not give up to call for justice, right?
     
  48. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in the corporate world.
     
  49. Lady Aalia

    Lady Aalia Atlantic's Finest
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    In Germany your also responsible for your own actions...or your kids for that matter ...thats why there is no sueing frenzy like in the US...
     
  50. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Can we please stop this nonsense that u may get banned for buying 1 or 2 val hammers or barbed kits becuase they were duped hammers or kits...thats gotta be total and utter nonsense..

    Likewise if someone bought 50 hammers or 50 kits at say 25% normal market value ...its kinda safe to say they pretty much know they are buying duped stuff...

    Know if someone grabs a val hammer and a kit form a idoc then fair play..lets remember folks most players will be lucky to get the bods for a 1 val hammer or several kits in a few years of play....IF SOMEONE grabs a chest full of 125 hammers i think alarm bells would start to ring??? u uh uhhhh and i doubt most peeps would think wow what good luck the guy who owned this house got over 100 val hammer smith rewards the legal way!! bodding!! noooway!!!