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[General] All ML Gems are the same or are there differences ?

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by popps, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    About the 8 ML Gems (Blue Diamond • Brilliant Amber • Dark Sapphire • Ecru Citrine • Fire Ruby • Perfect Emerald • Turquoise • White Pearl), are they moreless the same thing but used for different crafting or are some gems better than others, rarer drops than others and so forth ?

    Bottom line is, their usefullness as well as their drop rate is pretty much alike or are there noticeable difference ?

    What I am trying to say, is it like wood or ore where there is a lowest level (plain wood or iron one) and then it goes all the way up to the highest level (frostwood or valorite...) ?

    Is it the same for ML Gems with their usefullness and drop rarity going up increasingly ?

    If so, what would be the ladder of the ML Gems from lowest to highest ?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Consider the ML gems to be in three categories (based on their required collection skill): Mining; Lumberjacking; and Fishing.

    Mining can yield either: Blue Diamond; Dark Sapphire; Ecru Citrine; Fire Ruby; Perfect Emerald; or Turquoise. There is an equal chance to get any of these gems (ie it is random what you get).

    Lumberjacking is the source for Brillaint Amber and Fishing is the source for White Pearl. Neither of these skills give you any other type of gem, but they can give other SA Imbuing ingredients.

    As long as you meet the minimum skill requirements to get the gems you have a chance at obtaining them (GM Mining, GM Lumberjacking, or 80.0 Fishing). Regarding fishing I have noticed that you are better off having GM skill for pulling up White Pearls.

    For any given hour of using these skills, I have found that Mining always gives more gems than Lumberjacking and Fishing, and that Lumberjacking always gives more gems than Fishing. So the rarity of the gems is:
    Any Mining Gem > Brilliant Amber > White Pearl

    Just walk around your local Luna stripmall and their respective prices should easily show you wich is more rare (it will be the most expensive).

    I hope this gives you an insight as to their rarity.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  3. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    The usefullness of any ML gem is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I use some gems more than others only because I craft items that require those resources.

    In the eyes of the game, they are all useful.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  4. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I forgot to add:

    You can use the "Item Search" on the main page to find out what each gem is a required ingredient for, to make your own assessment on their usefullness to you.

    Stayin ALive,

    BG
     
  5. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks for the informations...

    So, I get to understand that as far as drop rate all the mining gems are pretty much the same drop rate, the lumberjacking is a bit rarer to drop and the fishing one the rarest to drop.

    The items which can be crafted with these 8 ML gems are comparable to one another for their number of mods or intensities ? Or, for example, since the drop rate for white pearls is the lowest they get to make items with higher number of mods and intensities ?

    That is, white pearls are "rewarded" for their higher rarity with better items that they can make ?

    Or there is not much any significant difference in the craftable items regardless of which of the 8 ML gem is used whether the rarest or the most common ?
     
  6. From my perspective I would say the rarest was the lumberjacking one or at least lately it has been for me. I do however seem to go through periods where one type is much more common than another and maybe find the same gem at the same area quite often. Just RNG I guess but it seems odd. I forgot to meniton some of the ML gems are required for the imbuing barter quests (Perfect emerald and brilliant amber and dark saphire.)

    I have no clue about the intensities of all these recipe items I have previously used up all my gems fooling around making those items an I have not had time to find more. I know they don't all result in relics when made with valorite and a bronze runic and unraveled. So much to do and so little time to di it all.
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, that would be an indirect way to evaluate the items craftable with all of the 8 ML gems.....

    Since the product of unravelling is tied to the intensity and overall "quality" of the item, so to speak, if there are differences this shows to me that the gems are not all the same simply, because what they can make is not of the same "quality"........

    It would be interesting, then, to see if ever a comprehensive evaluation of all of the gems craftables qualities was ever made and what the results were.
     
  8. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    No, it wouldn't. Not in the least. Just because an ML gem doesn't directly translate into a fragment yielding item doesn't mean that it isn't HIGHLY useful, and of great value. Just because a white pearl bracelet has random mods, coupled with nightsight, doesn't make them worthless - to the contrary, it requires 10 to imbue an individual slayer property on a weapon.

    You need to get it out of your head that relic fragments returned from unraveling = value of an item. Honestly, I think you are getting in to crafting for all the wrong reasons - believe it or not, most of us actually make items to use, not just to take apart immediately after hitting the make now button...


    No, it wouldn't. You would have, at minimum, 3 different points of view on the topic - the PvP'er, the PvM'er, and what I like to call the item scalper - those that are only interested in crafting for the sole purpose of how many gp's they can get out of it.

    Take, for example, the lowly Ecru Citrine... while it can be made into items that may well result in frags, they are far more valued for the item they create which won't result in one - the Ecru Citrine ring, which can sometimes come with the 50ep property, which, for certain groups of both PvM'ers and PvP'ers, is a highly desired property.

    Or the Perfect Emerald, which is often times referred to in this forum, especially in regards to the Knight's War Cleaver, and it's return of a fragment. Yes, I will concede that the jewel made from this is extremely weak in comparison to the current crop of available jewels made from imbuing, but that doesn't make it any less valuable to a carpenter who desires to sell arcane circles to aspiring spell weavers.

    From your various posts here, I am going to have to make a strong guess that you want to fall in to the item scalper crowd - you aren't here to learn how to craft items. You are here to try to learn how to make relic frags. Any crafting knowledge gained will just be incidental.

    And that's a real shame, Popps. Because for some of us, crafting is just as much a live and vibrant part of the game as is being a PvM'er or PvP'er. And it would be a real shame to find out that we are holding your hand, just to have you become one of those that rips us off with extreme pricing in the future.
     
  9. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I disagree with those 3 groups. Only 2 groups there. The PvM are scalpers and scalpers are PVM. After killing every monster in the game and your 1000's ancient wyrm. By then is only to sell what you get from them for as much as you can. So merchants are pvm players and all pvm players become merchants eventually. Many pvp players are merchants as well selling pvp items and felluccia only items. And many dedicated crafters almost all of us are merchants. So merchants rule the game :)
     
  10. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i would say the most usefull as well as rare go
    ecru citrines, dark saphires then white pearls.

    ecrus give the 50 ep rings
    dark saphires give the twink scims
    white pearls give the slayers for imbuing.

    those are what i use up the most.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Actually no, I am more interested in understanding if there is a logic underlying it, which is, since the ML Gems (at least from mining) are all with the same drop rate, the items they can make, respectively, have the same usefullness and quality or not.

    I would be surprised to learn that they hadn't, though....
    I mean, why make the ML Gems drop the same when the items they are used to craft have not the same usefullness and overall quality ?

    I was mentioning unravelling value, because it is the only one value that I can think of to "measure" the items crafted with the ML gems to find out their overall quality and usefullness so as to compare them with one another.

    If you can think of a better tool to measure them please let me know.

    As far as relics prices I can only think that their prices is so high because demand exceeds the offer. Perhaps, if more relics were available prices would get more reasonable since players would price them cheaper in order to sell them to beat their competitors. So, perhaps, making relics more widely available would actually be a good thing for players, not a bad thing.

    Also, cheaper relics would make high end imbued items more affordable to a wider range of players rather than limiting them to only a small number of wealthy players.

    But that is just the way I see it.
     
  12. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    You can't apply logic to crafting items from one system and expect that same logic to apply to a new system. EA used the ML gems for imbuing purposes solely because they already existed in game, and not because of their usefulness in ML recipes, or lack thereof.

    Nor can you put a value on an item based on what it may or may not produce from what is essentially a non-related system. As I stated, people would much prefer to use their EC's for the ring, with the 50EP, which won't produce a fragment, rather than make weapons that may or may not produce relic frag.

    And, despite your protestations to the contrary, relic fragments are an equal opportunity commodity. It's not difficult to make a legendary smith or tailor. I would argue that the tailor would be easier, as you can gather all your resources much more easily than you can smithing - it takes no effort, nor skill, to gather wool from sheep or cotton from fields. And you can take tailoring to legendary with nothing but cloth.

    Smithing would require an extra stage, since you would have to also build a miner, but that's also not difficult - and with bods, the entire process would still, essentially, be free, with the potential to make a small profit in the end.

    Is imbuing cheap to skill up? In the grand scheme of things, it depends on how you do it. Do you gather your own items, or do you buy gems from NPC's? If you gather your own, it's no more expensive than what you have to craft in order to imbue. And even then, one could argue that you can get skill ups simply by imbuing items looted from hunting. I know that's how I got the bulk of my early skill ups - unraveling looted items. It also provided more than enough resources to finish the push from 80 to 120, as well as the 120 power scroll.

    Relic frags don't need to be cheaper for people to compete on an even playing field. They don't even need to be more common. As I stated earlier, they aren't even necessary for nice, and I daresay, top end, items.

    I value items based on what they can create, not what happens when I have to destroy an item I have created. And what I value the most won't be what the next person will value - to me, White Pearls are probably of the greatest use, because as a PvM'er, it's in my best interest to be able to create the best single slayers that I can. To a PvP'er, Blue Diamonds, Fire Rubies or Turquoise may be more valuable, as they are used to maximize dex, str and int.

    Simply put - the logic you are looking for doesn't exist, and the logic you are trying to apply would make Mr. Spock /facepalm...
     
  13. For me the white pearls aren't the most important because I can get the slayer properties easy enough not using imbuing. I have however wanted to make a elemental slayer axe which despite burning numerous runics hoping for it I have never been lucky enough to get that super slayer (I got all the others and more than one). Elemental slayer takes vials of vitrol which I can create from parasitic poison and nightshade (that used up my stash of parasitic plant). If I were making bows I would worry about pearl though maybe I could just wait for the right slayer off a looted bow an imbue that one. I'm not sure which ML gems I would want most because I have so many things I want to make. I would like to make an ecru citrine ring but to get the 50 ep property I would need close to a hundred of them for the odds to be highly likely that I would actually create one and even then it may have other properties rendering it less useful. I'm not sure if I will ever get 100 ecru citrine. I guess really I want to get 120 imbuing first and change into a gargoyle and then see what I want.
     
  14. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Please don't make me get into this I don't really want to. Because I already said this to you millions of times before. Lets not forget either that you are a wealthy player yourself. I do not want to be baited in this. Forgetting the fact that this is not only a pvp game. forgetting the fact there is a such thing as pvm and crafters in this game which are majority by more than double,forgetting the fact there is a sensitive economy in this game which by making relic fragments cheaper it makes everything else worthless. Forgetting the fact this will just end in the further destruction of UO. Anyway I guess am stuck in getting into this a little...
    Here we go...

    Just going to the gems argument even though white pearls and brilliant amber are harder to obtain perfect emeralds and turquise are worth more than all the other gems because of there use. It used to be that ecru were the most highly valued then imbuing came and they still was highly value because the 50ep didn't count to imbuing cap then they changed that and ecru are as valueble as dark saphires. While blue diamonds,white pearls,brilliant amber are in the same category of worth. Then the least value are fire rubies. This is because there is less use for them than the others and there was a massive influx of them as well as iron ingots by 1or 2 merchant for the last 3 months can't tell if it was just one merchant or 2.
    So much that they brought down the price of 60k iron ingots from 1.3 to 650-700k and the fire rubies from 200k per 10 to 60k per 10 by themselves in the largest shard in UO. Not to mention relic prices. I had the merchant under control for 2 months but loss control of them after that and they droped the market making it less worth it for resourse gatherers on that shard.

    I had no choice but to wait them out I sold there products for higher amounts barely able to cover my vender fees. I kept cleaning them out but they kept on coming. Had to invest more than a billion gold total just the first month to hold them down. Still havent made all the gold I invested back. After the second month I had to wait them out.As a result I have more iron ingots and fire rubys that I know what to do with but I'll eventualy sell them when the market picks up again."patience is important"
    The result of course the market suffered for the dedicated crafters,gatherer,pvm players but great for the pvp buyers and 5 minute self imbuers and 5 minute self smiths.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, while others may like playing Ultima Online as if it was a business game, personally, I enjoy playing UO as an adventuring game and as a PvP game.

    For that, and that is my opinion, I think that the cheaper the outfits, no matter how high end they might be, the better.

    Why ?

    Because the more players can be fitted to put up a challenge the more challenging PvP can be and, so, more fun for everyone.

    So, generally speaking, I am not in favour of scarcity of items in the game which might keep their prices high.

    I guess that we do not necessarily have to agree with each others' different opinions, we can, so to speak, agree to disagree........
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    We will always disagree. Both points of our views are completely on the other side of the spectrum from each other. I understand the pvp aspect of the game but it is a minority compare to all the other aspects of the game. For everyone in pvp to optain everything easily with out trouble and equally you will have to remove all of pvm,crafter,venders,gold,practicaly only obtain items by leveling up. You will have to remove control of towns,champ spawns,territory from pvp areas. The only reason for someone to fight someone is just because they enjoy killing another player. This is the only way to bring your view into this game it won't be Uo anymore of course. I accept the game for what it is what it has being and what it continues to be.
    I don't want to change things I just want it improved for the better and enjoyment of all players. I want more reasons for pvm players to fight monsters,i want more reasons for players to craft for other players,I want the market to stay in a place where those players that slave over making there items just perfect and slave over resource gathering can benefit from there efforts. Though many who do this don't see it as slavering they see it as a quiet way to spend relaxing time getting materials to sell or to craft to sell. Eventually it all goes to sell. The gold received from these things go to buying things they need for other aspects of ther playing either it be materials to rares for there collection to there pvp-rp activities.

    We all live in this virtual world, and even though we play our own ways for our enjoyment we are in one way or another dependent on each other. This makes the community and what we call UO.