1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

All "rubble" plants should be growable...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Uvtha, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    I think its lame that just a select few that obsessively camped the mag even are the only ones who get to use these fabulous plants.

    Make um growable I say! And not like the new monster drops... have them be part of the actual plant system, where you have to cross pollinate!
     
  2. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Your scope is too limited. ALL plants should be growable. Trees included. (and perhaps some leafy monsters as well)
     
  3. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    Fair enough. I just brought up rubble plants cause I think it sucks that some people have a scad of them, and they can really make your place look nice, while other who either missed the event, or didn't do so well with the grabs are out of luck.
     
  4. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Luckily they're mostly ferns and other forest-style plants, so most people who want a flower garden will be relatively unaffected.

    But then again you have people who can turn around and make this http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=120095

    I've pretty much given up on my grand vision of every plant being growable, but at least they're throwing some carrots at us now, as opposed to before when we got nothing. They're adding more plants too, but it's slow going.
     
  5. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    Man, what a fab house. I'm not a big fan of roof top streams, but other than that, that's an amazing home.

    I was just sitting in my home stuffed with rubble plants, and thinking how happy I am with how its looks, and then I felt sad for other people who couldn't have the same things I did, just because I hit the mag invasion so hard.
     
  6. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Eh, house design has always been for the lucky, the rich, or the ingenious.

    Poverty facilitates creativity :D
     
  7. Sebrina

    Sebrina Guest

    *rotfl* You just need to stop and decide to make a certain place (your) home forever. I could have had a castle or an 18x18 many times, but I chose (where) I wanted to live, and it does not include the previous mentioned sizes.

    I've a few mil in the bank and just have fun with the game by not comparing house size, or the junk that people stash away, but by presence in the game.

    (Self imposed) limitations facilitate creativity! I am blessed. Come see me on Moonglow sometime.
     
  8. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    All plants should be growable AND crossable. And STACKABLE (plus seeds). :)

    /off gardening soapbox
     
  9. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    No rubble plants should not (all) be growable..

    All your rare items should be mine. I should have (insert event item) I want it cause I missed it, quit and came back, worked, slept, green with envy, failed to participate, Role played like you was saving the city from destruction, focused on other aspects of the event.

    * I was at this event and I can vouch that there was more than a "few" people. *

    I would like to see gardening expanded however just not in that way.
     
  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    If you would have read the whole post you would have seen that I have TONS of the rubble, of pretty much every kind (come see my house if you don't believe me), I'm not begging for rares. It's stupid that people CAN grow plants, but not these ones because you have a select lucky few with "rubble" plants that weigh 100 pounds who would be offended?

    They aren't even that valuable. They spawned like 1000 of each type.

    It makes no sense.
     
  11. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    I read the post top to bottom:] If you have rubble or not...I say leave em rare just like any other rare we have fought to keep over the years.

    My motivation is that I want something that few have.

    Gardening need not suffer they can always make use of other rare plants in game to fill that area with content.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    Well you have your motivation, and I have mine I guess.
     
  13. I'd be more than happy to trade one of my rare rubble plants for an Invalis Burchette (sp?). :lick:
     
  14. Cyrah

    Cyrah Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    297
    Agreed and I have many. Let anyone grow please.
     
  15. eolsunder

    eolsunder Guest

    Well i don't agree.

    Why should people sweat, fight, and stay up hours killing foes in the Magincia battles to get their items, and you pop up later and go "I didn't feel like attending the event, i want those items also."

    Thats one of the major problems with the UO thinking these days that make people leave. First it was with rares, with the staff introducing the rares as common items so everyone could have some. Now its with the huge flood of pixel crack that is infusing the game with every known baubble and item you can think of, flooding people out in a wave of gaudiness.

    With the vast amount of items in the game, there is NO reason that hard worked for event items should be reduced to commonplace items just because there are people complaining that they don't have one. No, its not that they don't have one, its that they don't want to work for it.

    If you want one of those cool plants, go out, make gold, and buy one. Don't go "hey those are neat, i want to be able to grow them."

    So.. i 100% disagree, except the current trend is to let them have their way, so it will probably happen, just like they are doing with the new plants seeds. Sad, but oh well, i can't wait to see how the future "freeshard" does when the staff starts just giving you a "all arti, all resources" token so you can just get what you want when you start.

    But the trouble is, and has been for years, the staff is more interested in getting in new players than keeping the vet players. To them, its all about volume, not quality. They would rather have 100k new players jumping in and out than 20k vet players who will stay on for 10 years.
     
  16. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Many of those rubble plants were collected in massive amounts. I just sold a ton of the various ferns, grasses and palms at 10k each. Why? Because people didn't want to pay 100k for them. I don't care, it got them out of my house, freed up lockdowns and I still made a little gold on something I didn't have to do ANY real work for. I just stealthed and picked them up. Even on my fighter when I would run across some plants I'd scoop them up and keep fighting. Not difficult.

    There's no logical reason the rubble plants shouldn't be added to gardening. We are talking about about decorative plants here, not something unbalancing or giving an advantage in PvP. Not adding them to the growable list is as silly has having the long sought after filled bookcases using new books instead of Doom books.
     
  17. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Also have to take into fact that of the loads of rubble plants that had been collected got turned in. I kept a set for collector reasons and another set I used to decorate a house to look like a Mayan Ruins. There could be more plant produce that mirror the cooked items specials. And some that cover potion effects. Being cooking and alky produced items are easily put out fast. What unbalancing would there be for plants taking 17 days for just 8of a product? Then you can factor in plants that can only be grown in fertile dirt and the time it takes to collect that. New more unique higher powered product could be added like something that allows a fighter to have a type of summoned creature. Treefolk that is same as an earth eli or a leafy EV type summon. Could even have a leafy vine twisted mass that is a mount (works like an animated undead horse that dies off when not mounted and vannishes when logging on after server up).
     
  18. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Post directed at Rares collectors against this idea:

    All plants should be growable because of the nature of what they are: they're plants. And what do plants do? They grow.

    Besides, rares collecting hinders UO progress by trying to prevent expansion.

    Furthermore, did the Devs say "The Magincia Invasion is the only place and time you will be able to get these items ever, so collect up"? No, they didn't therefore there's no reason to act as if they did say that.
     
  19. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Really? There's no reason? How about the reason that since the people who have the most rubble were the ones who worked hardest to *destroy* Magincia, they should be punished by losing the rarity of their items? Is that a good reason? Seriously, you're arguing to protect the villains? :coco:
     
  20. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    I seem to recall, but I could be wrong, that someone "official" said there was a chance we would see some of the rubble plants later on. Well the o'hii tree is now the cocoa tree and cattails were added with the new plants last fall. Lily pads were supposed to be added from way back when Augur was planning generation five and yucca is a spring cleaning reward. So, I'm hopeful more will be added for growing. :)
     
  21. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138


    The hole in this statement is that the progression of the game is not determined by rare collecting.

    However it should have a large factor on the progression as a good portion of play style is affected by it and has been from the start.

    Long hours of trade, competition, participation in events to gather rare items, unique items all becomes a waste of time when the green monsters rear their heads(me, me, me, I, I, I,).

    You Can disguise it with for the good of all but no one here is fooling anyone.

    There are plenty ways of progressing Gardening with out destroying the efforts / play styles of others.
     
  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    First of all, many (probably all) of the people for this idea DO have the rubble plants, its not an issue of crying over wanting something we don't have. We just want everyone to be able to enjoy the simple pleasure of expanded house deco, as well as a large upgrade to the plant system.

    I have no issue with rares, but these are plants for goodness sake, they shouldn't even BE rubble.
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,525
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    First off, there's nothing wrong with rares, I have many myself, BUT, when they are rares that use up art that could be put into regular content, then yes, they are holding back updating content.

    I'm all for oddly colored/named items being rare or even unique rares, but when they just take huge hunks of the original art and make them "rares" especially when its things like plants and rocks, I think that's idiotic.

    And from reading this post its clearly NOT a "give me something!!!" post disguised as a "for the greater good" post. We all already have the rubble. We just want others to have it as well, because it can really help out with a design.

    Believe what you want, but if you want my proof, go out of the NW exit of Zento, my house is right there, and public.
     
  24. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    Uvt-man, I am not trying to say "you" I am trying to be "in general".:) dont think I am trying to make "it" personal. I am certainly not questioning your integrity. peace
     
  25. Voluptuous

    Voluptuous Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    16
    I played for hours...and hours...during that invasion. DAYS. I rezzed, I gave supplies, but yes damnit I was there for morning glories and palm trees. I don't know how much insurance money I lost, not to mention sleep. but was mega proud to have 4 morning glories and 6 Palm trees in the end for my deco purposes. I'm a rares collector and I love using rares in my house designs. It's the only thing I do in the game. I'll prob never be in the ranks of the big guys and own something worth 400 mil but...this invasion was possible for me. Not too impossible for my poor mage gal to do, and to get a rare for myself!

    Now you want to make them worth 500gp. I can't even tell you how much that upsets me. I missed the entire cleanup event...does that mean beehives should be craftable? no. But I'll work my butt off raising money to buy one, because its a GOAL. Whenever a rare is nerfed, it kills my desire to play a little. so many have been nerfed in the past 2 years it's making my head spin...already most of the good magincia rares HAVE been nerfed...if we nerfed EVERYTHING well...explain to me why we just don't permantly play in TC? Where's the goals? There has to be a POINT to playing this game?
     
  26. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    5,789
    Likes Received:
    6
    I love plants, but I agree with voluptuous. The point of the game is to play, to make goals for yourself, to be able to work towards those goals. When they start to make everything easily available they ruin the whole point of working towards things.

    Look at what happened when sak put more plants in for people to raise. Hedges sell, everything else sits - hedges are wildly popular, and I think that anything that will be wildly popular even when readily available should be made easily accessible - so while all the other plants are nice enough they aren't going to be coveted or sought after. So it's great for the (very) small part of the population that will utilize them but otherwise its a bit of a wasted opportunity for difficulty-based acquisition.

    I take this stance, even tho I'm a volume hoarder. I like to be able to have at my disposal all items I would ever need to decorate. Which means that yes, I have a dozen buckets, twenty bushels, god knows how many of the old school potted plants till I made myself sell a bunch off, tons of colored nets...it is much, much easier to be able to grow a couple dozen snowdrops than have to acquire and hoard them (as I would do if they were rare). I have lots and lots of plant rubble, and it is a pain to store and transport because of the weight, even sorting it it is hard to find what I need.

    I had a heck of a good time at the Magincia invasion tho, and if they decide to do something similar then I will look forward to such an event. Making those fan plants and whatever else common would ruin them for re-use in a similar event (or for another turn in event, or whatever).
     
  27. red sky

    red sky Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Why don't they just create new plant graphics and make everyone happy. Leave the rubble alone. I mean it's rubble for UO's sake. I just wish I had got that fire when I had the chance. Dangit.
     
  28. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    5,789
    Likes Received:
    6
    I missed out on the fire too, and I really really really really wanted it. But here's to saving up the pennies! :p
     
  29. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    32
    I agree with this view, anything that would still be wildly popular even when redily available should be made easily accessible.

    Those that are desirable only because they are rare should never be made easily accessible, because no one would want them.

    Let me explain:
    Ever since Cocoa trees were added, no one has bought my O'hii tree. Even more curious, is that no one bought my Cocoa trees (at 500 gp) either.

    The rubble trees from the rebuild Magicia event hardly sells unless I do a package deal for all 12 rubble. I very rarely see people put them out for decor either.

    The 2 new trees from gardening does not sell at all.

    The rubble small palm, pampass grass, elephant ear, ponytail, fern, snake plants that the old gardening plants were based on were all left alone too. People only wanted those that they can't normally get.



    So the there are several questions to consider before making anything common:

    Why do people not want items like the Cocoa/O'hii trees, the 2 rebuild Magincia rubble trees, and the 2 new gardening trees as decor?

    If these were rare, would we see the reverse? ie people snatching them up and proudly displaying them at home?

    Ultimately, are these items are only desirable/valuable because they uncommon?



    On a less related note, I am so glad that I picked up all the unwanted common rubble plants, fittings, garbage and get this...dust!
     
  30. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Why should they have to be wildly popular to be obtainable?
    If you make a vendor that sells all the carpentry deco items, very few of the items would sell, does that mean we should trash carpentry? Of course not. Even though people wont be buying the items in bulk numbers, doesn't mean that they wont be used a lot. Besides, just because you don't sell your plants well, doesn't mean others don't sell them well. Perhaps your vendor is more expensive than another.

    Hedges are going to be selling in bulk just from the fact that putting up a single hedge looks stupid. You need several of them to make anything look good. Trees aren't going to sell in huge bulk amounts because they're large and not many will fit in a house.
    The cypress trees in particular wont sell quickly because they're mostly useful for dark ("evil") houses and swamp-style houses. Those styles are less common than plain houses, but just because they're less common, does that mean their creators should be made handicapped?

    Sure, leave the 99% useless crap for the rares collectors like the 3 easels would have been good to keep a server birth rare, even though they were originally obtained by exploiting a bug, (seriously, too much of rares collecting rewards bug exploitation) because they're absolutely useless, they don't even make good deco. And let the rares crowd keep their broken chairs facing a rare direction, just because they're completely useless.

    Rares that were obtained by exploiting bugs should be made common so as to not promote cheating. Rares that would be very useful to have should be made available so as to not handicap players. Rares that are functionally worthless can be kept rare (upside down recall runes, etc.).
     
  31. Voluptuous

    Voluptuous Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    16
    Sarsmi does sell furniture and tinker items and all that.

    I still don't agree thou. Rares should be kept rares. Somebody said people only want what's uncommon. Very true, they drool and desire something different to display in their home, or to wear. Fads come and go as something becomes more common to all. It's called saturating the market. But the current "rare" motivates you to keep playing.

    I had a shop. Sold tons of deco kits like fishtanks, stealables, potion kegs, etc. Took me the better part of 3 years to rack up 70 mil pinching my pennies. I chose to buy a big time rare...the covered chair!

    A month later It became a heritage token. I almost quit the day I found that out. Time marches on and a better part of the rares I spent my gp on...are now commonplace.

    If ALL rubble becomes 500gp commonplace too....and we nerf everything there is...what the heck are we gonna do with gold? Why bash monsters then? We won't need a million for anything! OMG...it'd turn into the most hohum boooooring game ever. If all there was to it was decoing with everything I'd ever want to...I'd go buy an old Sims game.
     
  32. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    5,789
    Likes Received:
    6
    If everything becomes common then nothing will be of interest for collectors. I like the current idea to create legitimate rare items for people to collect, as they did with rubble and spring turn ins etc. Plants *are* very useful and I love them, but I don't think that just because it grows in the ground we should be able to grow it ourselves.

    BTW I price common plain plants at 250 gps and colored plants at 500. The newer plants I price at 1-5k, tho I'll drop those prices in a bit when I have acquired more stock. I have had plant vendors for years, the only consistent bulk sellers have been plain campions and poppies, with snowdrops coming in a distant third.

    Something else about people who buy plants/furniture, they will easily substitute most furniture for something else if you are out of stock. Plants are more adaptable to substitution than furniture in fact. Some plants do not substitute well (another reason hedges sell so well, when you want a hedge, you don't want a stacked tower of water plants instead). Basically this means that while some people will appreciate the variety, most people will make due, or not even care enough to hunt down what they really need.
     
  33. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    I'm still going to point out that we are discussing plants here, not easels, rugs, tapestries and such. Sak has been asked about the coconut and date palms on the gardening forum and has pretty much said no to them becoming growable. I can also understand if she doesn't add the fan plants and morning glories (I don't agree with it, but I get her point of not wanting to upset the rares people). But, if any of you arguing for NONE of the rubble plants being added due to rarity really want to include the palms and ferns in it then I think you are just arguing to argue.

    If those were intended to be rare they wouldn't have spawned in such great numbers. I literally had (as I'm sure many of you also did) a house filled with rubble. I wasn't even playing full time then and I still amassed a huge amount of plants. I had so many palms, ferns and grasses it was unreal. So is there any reason to not add those to the plant system?

    Plants, all plants, go through cycles of what sells best. I've gone 2 months without selling one single flowering cactus and for some reason my vendor has sold out multiple times since the end of January. I have no idea why, but it happened. The always popular campions even go through phases of not selling, then I'll have to grow in bulk to keep up with the demand.

    Some items should remain rare, but things that spawned 20 at a time shouldn't be among them IMO. And yes, I am one of those people who is saving up money to buy a couple more coconut palms. I sold two of my five for far less than I should have and I regret it. I won't part with the three I have left for any amount of gold and I've been offered a LOT for them. I would love to be able to grow my favorite grasses though.
     
  34. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    My argument is simply: plants are so incredibly useful for decoration that they should be freely available.
    I'm not so much against rares, although I'm not a collector (the entire market seems silly to me) as I am against handicapping those who wish to decorate their houses for the sake of a few people who think they have a legitimate claim due to the fact that they spent way too much money on the item.

    A better system than how we're currently doing things would be to announce certain items as rares, and avoid re-releasing them in the future. Currently they give us items that are hard to get, and people incorrectly induce that the item, because it was hard to get now, will and should forevermore be hard to get. While the devs make no promises of that nature.

    Certain items such as Pre-order items *should* be kept rare because they were rewards *only* for the people who pre-ordered them. If the devs re-release the item, they're scamming the people who paid more for their product.

    Useful items should generally be available anyone (rare versions of useful items can be kept rare such as Chargers of the Fallen). It would have been awful if the devs introduced the Bulletin boards as rares, because they're so useful.

    I'm all for keeping functionally useless rares as rares, but don't impede growth for the sake of a few people who paid too much for an item assuming without reason that because the item was rare then that it would stay rare forever.