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Alright Devs Think about it

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lefty, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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  2. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Although it nice to spot some of the monsters we know so well in UO in that trailer. That is everything that UO should not be. Its cartoony and WoW like. It doesn't scream UO at all.
     
  3. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    yeah, not diggin the graphics style or the looks of the combat, looks like a poor WOW/EQ clone. The only graphics that don't look silly look like they were just ripped from U9, and I didn't particularly like that games graphics style either. (I'll give it some slack though as U9 is only what, a year younger than UO...)
     
  4. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Nevertheless some of us were very excited about the game.. It had it's own forum here on Stratics and many of us followed the game from conception to completion.

    The day they let fans try it out at a convention was huge.

    All our jaws just dropped when they decided three weeks before release to drop the project. All that time and money spent.. for nothing. The game was 99% done.

    P.S. And don't forget, at that time it looked way better than anything else around.
     
  5. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    It was a sad day when that was cancelled :(

    Rest in peace, Origin.
     
  6. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    What gets me is that EA, in true to form game company lunacy, would have just deleted it all. Wasting the entire thing.
    I'm not saying I was excited about it, because I don't know what that game had or didn't have in it, just sayin'.
     
  7. Alacres

    Alacres Visitor
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    Personally, I think it looked awesome. Heck, I even still find the art style appealing. It kind of had an Asheron's call feel to it while staying within the realm of medieval fantasy.

    Mixed with the major elements that make UO the great game that it is, I think the game would have been impressive.
     
  8. eth777

    eth777 Adventurer
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    Definitely looked interesting for the time, was it "Ultima"? Hard to tell, that was just a video showing off graphics with little story, though the Gargoyle assist definitely had the ultima feel.

    The way I see it, Ultima is about the story, and the world that has been created, not about holding on to some outdated graphics client, which unfortunately seems to be high on a lot of priorities here. (not saying anyone has specifically said that in this thread... yet)
    I look at the enhanced client, and all I see is a new wash of (buggy) paint on the original client. The truth of the matter is, if they don't do something to bring this world up to the expectations of today's gamers, it's going to go away completely, or be relegated to a facebook game knockoff(oh wait they already have one of those).

    I keep coming back to this game because nothing else has this level of freedom.

    I love this world, and all the history that has been built into it. Just imagine being able to step into the earliest dungeons viewing the same world straight from the eyes of your character. Face to face with the lizardman, or the Ogre lord?
     
  9. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    The trouble is with bringing it to the expectation of today's gamers is that today's gamers are spoon fed. They pick a race and and a class and thats it. No thinking required only which one looks cool or is better than the others. Once in game its a case of following the quests from zone to zone to level up at the quickest rate you can. Then spending all your time grinding for the best items.
    No one here can argue with this, hell there's a huge and very popular guide for WoW called "the levelling guide" which does all the most useful quests only.

    You are right what brings any of us back to UO is not its graphics its the level of freedom we have and that Richard Garriot and co had the sense and genius to put in place. The reason UO is so difficult for new players is because they haven't needed to think before and expect it all handed to them in the form of linear questing from one zone to another.
     
  10. yorky

    yorky Guest

    I dont think thats a problem with the game but rather the tutorial, its quite frankly very poor and leaves new players as lost as the next person, once it finishes the new player is left out in the cold, the tutorials should be game wide as in having individual tutorials on each skill or skill sets for example that pop as and when the player uses them.

    UO requires a huge amount of web searching to understand everything, new players dont know about uoguide or uostratics which makes it easier to just give up before they can be really drawn into the game, the graphics dont help either.

    A UO with 3D graphics that are on par with todays standards and with UO's basic gameplay would be a huge success imo.
     
  11. Cerwin Vega

    Cerwin Vega Lore Keeper
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    Game looks cool, but i have to say i laughed as im watching the video and i look over and i see a add for WoW now free to play up to lvl 20.
     
  12. If I wanted to play World of Warcraft, I'd play World of Warcraft.
     
  13. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    UOX was not WOW.. as mentioned above WOW is a linear game. UOX was just our old familiar UO with a new engine.. it's sandbox gameplay wouldn't have changed.
     
  14. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    i kinda liked it, nice animations - the 2 headed thing looked almost scary.
    I didn't like that whirling circle that appeared under the guy. and I'd take cartoonish, if it makes proportions look better - but, and more importantly... does it have any support services?
     
  15. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    While it did look a bit cartoony, I just considered it to be a multi-player version of Ultima IX with FPS-style combat. Similar to what the Warhammer arena game is, but just MMORPG instead of limited to 18 players. I never got a sandbox vibe from it, and without a sandbox setting, it's not UO. Ultima Worlds Online was a more apt description.
     
  16. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I remember one video.. showed a quick tour of all the dungeons..

    Despise was very cool.. bare rock walls, The ettins looked fantastic I thought, well you all saw one in the vids above.

    Destard in particular sticks out in my mind, dragons all starting to focus on ya, wondering what your doing there.

    And there's also one of one of the devs walking around Brit showing how all the NPC worked with the new engine. The artwork for the town was just breathtaking.
     
  17. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    I would look at the time this was being developed they were still limited graphically by current PC resources. this was being done in the Geforce2-4 area. Like year 2002 or something IIRC ( at work cant look it all up, so feel free to flame ).

    Anyhow...
     
  18. Raptor85

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    nah, the look is definitely intentional, there's games far older that achieve the more "serious" look with even worse graphics. Easiest example, half-life , which came out in 1998. The cartoony look is more about the art style than how much they had to work with, the trailer looks more like a "high fantasy" type game, like WoW than the semi-realistic victorian/steam/present day fantasy Ultima is.
     
  19. eth777

    eth777 Adventurer
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    I can agree with the spoonfed comment, I'm thinking more Graphics/Story. I haven't found a recent game that has been difficult for a while. All on rails with save points every 10 seconds. A lot of good stories, and graphics, just no real thought needed. Now it may sound contradictory, but I think more quests would be a good thing.

    They have the newbie quests, but I think it may need to go further than just that, some people like quests, so why not have an optional quest line to introduce new players to all the different dungeons and towns. I though it would be nice to have some long "epic"(for lack of a better word) quest lines, after gaining so many skill points in a skill, a new task starts(optional). It would allow for some serious storytelling along the path to raising skills. The quests would not be necessary but available for those who want to experience the stories of Ultima. Use the previous single player games as inspiration, follow the path of the Avatar.

    Obviously a lot of these ideas require a ton of work, but nothing worth doing is easy.

    I wish I could work on it, building the stories, mapping out the points of interest, the world is so huge there is no end to what is possible. I just hate to see so much of the world unused. You can go to Destard and kill dragons all day, but why do the dragons like that dungeon, when did they move in, for that matter, how do they fit thru that tiny hole in the wall?

    For music based skills, a tour of taverns and music halls could be done, with each place having certain storylines, related to the location, to entertain players while they gain the skills, with quests going after the right monsters for the skill level. It would be so much better than dropping a boat and dragging the right monsters over to practice on.


    Yea I know, when I do talk, I talk a lot. Just so many ideas to send out there, it's fun to see what others think as well. :)
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Well, there's a good bit of both issues... art style and the out-of-date look. As it stands right now even gameplay can look closer to the FMV portions of that video than what the actual gameplay does, but even then, the creature designs would still look "Disney" and "cartoony". That was probably my biggest dislike. I HATED the cyberpunk stuff they did for UO2 (which got shoehorned into UO unfortunately), and hated the cartoony look and feel that UOX was bringing forward.

    I'm just hoping the upcoming graphics tweaks for the EC will NOT go in the cartoony direction but more in the more detailed, realistic look.

    If we're talking Art Style, I'll take Dragon Age over WoW.
     
  21. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    I can agree with the spoonfed comment, I'm thinking more Graphics/Story. I haven't found a recent game that has been difficult for a while. All on rails with save points every 10 seconds. A lot of good stories, and graphics, just no real thought needed.

    I finished Dungeon Siege 3 this past weekend and it was this from start to finish. The only games I have played that were more linear were the rail shooters or the old school side scrolling "beat-em-ups". Yeah it was pretty, but it lacked so much of what DS2 did well.

    It IS a shame because gameplay and graphics are not and SHOULD NOT be mutually exclusive.
     
  22. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Speaking of graphics, I've been messing around with Ultima V - Lazarus: Screenshots on the Dungeon Siege engine, and while it's fan-made and Ultima based on the Dungeon Siege engine, it's not too bad for an engine from 2002.

    There's Media : Return to the Serpent Isle based on the Neverwinter Nights 2 engine from 2006 which isn't bad for a fan-made project either.

    And of course FORGOTTEN WORLD - Screenshots

    These aren't exactly Ultima X, but they are Ultima games/remakes with updated graphics and most avoid the worst aspects of "cartoony" looking graphics.

    This.

    I will say the Blizzard devs had good reason for WoW to be cartoony, both because of the original engine for WoW and the look of the previous Warcraft game, and because it is somewhat "timeless". I don't know if it's a side-effect or something done deliberate, but WoW runs well on a large variety of computers and not just the latest and greatest.

    And while it's a sidescroller, I actually really liked the look of Trine (available for a very cheap price - what you want to donate through Humble Bundel down to a couple of bucks).

    Trine - Trailer - HD Widescreen

    That starts to get into cartoony, but not the WoW or Asian-looking cartoony. I think some of the cartoony-looking stuff is more due to lighting.
     
  23. Ultima has always had the following hallmarks:

    • Isometric View -- No first person, you are always looking down on the action.
    • Incredible Attention to Detail -- Use a scythe on wheat, you get wheat, which you can process into flour, etc.
    • Mythology that builds on the old Ultima games.

    When you throw those all out the window? You get Ultima: Ascension.


    Or a WOW clone.
     
  24. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Isometric view

    You can still have a 3d-based Ultima and retain an isometric view. Dungeon Siege 2 (well consider if you updated the look of it by a several years' worth of graphics tech) would be a good example. The only thin you'd be losing would be the hold-backs of a tile-based system and the workarounds for larger particle effects by using repeating pixel-particle effects (vs a single larger particle effect available in a 3d engine).

    Attention to Detail

    This would be mainly up to the dev team itself. UO and really Ultima itself has had over 20 years of building on this concept and even where we are right now, it could be taken even further, especially with environmental effects... weather, seasons, day/night cycle, etc. However since most of those are passive in nature, it's only going to happen if a dev decides to do it "in their spare time". We at least have a start with the yearly winter/snow map. Again this isn't limited to a 2d environment.

    Mythology

    This would depend on where you start the Ultima Canon and what's considered canon and what is not. Some people would say Ultima Canon is 4-7, some would say all, some would say 1-7, etc. I'd have to say that Draconi's SA team did the best job at this with the SA expansion with the Underworld level of the Abyss and the area outside Tomb of Kings which is an almost tile-by-tile recreation of the Ultima 6 Gargoyle lands map including tree and bush placements.
     
  25. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Not to burst your bubble, but Ultima has had first person perspectives since Akalabeth. All the dungeons in the original six (Akalabeth + U:I - U:V) were first person, isometric dungeons didn't make an appearance until U:VI.

    Furthermore, there were two completely first person Ultima games: the Underworld series.

    Ascension was just the natural evolution of the series, regardless of the gaping plot holes.
     
  26. Uh.

    That's true.

    :blushing:
     
  27. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    I think it's just a basic fact that the 'cartoony' models scale down much better than a highly detailed render. That's part of what makes their product work with both low and high end computers.

    Cartoony isn't bad as long as it looks cool. It's when your avatar looks like a weeble that things start to go downhill fast!
     
  28. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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  29. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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    LOL
    A weeble

    :mf_prop:
     
  30. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    I like the basis of your ideas here. A bard should get a tour of the taverns and music halls with some story thrown in. Everyone should get a tour of the cities with story involved. Tell people why britain has two castles. Tell them what virtue is associated. Tell them why its "New" Haven/Magincia. Show new players why not just chuck them in with some newbie quests.

    I am reminded here that when Garriot and co made UO they put in a system where if you killed too many rabbits then the next creature up the food chain would search other prey. Eventually it would lead to the bigger creatures like dragons roaming into town looking for suitable food. Sadly due to people killing ALL animals too quickly the system didn't work so they had to remove it.
    I think had they made this work it would have been a great dynamic world where everything you kill/do has some other effect on the world.
     
  31. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    For my money, I think that there should be a good, strong questing structure in place. No one needs to be spoon fed anything; just brought into the story and given a sense of ownership in the game.

    The quests should never ever be: go here, get this, come back, get reward. Instead they should be storylines that familiarize the players with the world of Britannia, the people who live there and the history of the Ultima game. Something that makes you say, 'I know who Lord Blackthorn is and I hate his guts for what he did to the virtues!' or 'I bought this bow from Iolo's bows in Yew! His great granddaughter had me collect the sinews from wolves and the wood from the great Yew trees to make it!'

    I would hate to see a quest system dropped in that was just busy work. I think it really needs to have value.

    This would be more of a priority to me than any better client or graphics update. Other, lesser games with worse graphics (Runescape comes to mind) are still pretty successful at keeping peoples interest, so it must be the content, not the color... so to speak.
     
  32. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I like this a lot. I said a while back that they should incorporate some of the stories from the other Ultimas into UO through quests.

    There would need to be many steps in a quest - 20, 30, whatever. It doesn't have to be done all at once - the server can track where you are at, but it should focus on familiarizing people with the world of Ultima, immersing them in the history as somebody else said.
     
  33. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    The quests should never ever be: go here, get this, come back, get reward. Instead they should be storylines that familiarize the players with the world of Britannia, the people who live there and the history of the Ultima game. Something that makes you say, 'I know who Lord Blackthorn is and I hate his guts for what he did to the virtues!' or 'I bought this bow from Iolo's bows in Yew! His great granddaughter had me collect the sinews from wolves and the wood from the great Yew trees to make it!'

    The thing is that they can put ALL of the storyline in the world behind a quest, it's up to the player to actually read beyond simply "Kill X" or "Bring me Y widgets". We as players have become so time sensitive in terms of questing that we skip any unimportant information and skip completely over the "why we're doing this" to "what to do".

    Unless you want to bog down the game with endless cutscenes to forcefeed storyline, the best you can do is put it in the quest descriptions and hope people take the time to enjoy it.