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American Flag

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Monolith, May 7, 2010.

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  1. Monolith

    Monolith Sage
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    Whats becoming of our country when we can't display our US flag. We have to worry about offending someone.......is this not America? I don't see anyone complaining about other nationalities displaying their hertitage flag or colors.

    Anyone see the incident in California where few boys got sent home for wearing the US flag on their shirt.....then hispanic students brought and displayed the Mexican flag the next day? Me.....I don't care what people display, but it burns me when other nationalities want to become a US citizen, then they complain or have NO pride in our Nation.
     
  2. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    I'm very torn on that story. On one hand they have the right to wear our colors proudly. On the other, they were doing it on Cinco De Mayo just to be jerks.

    Yes they have the right to be jerks. I think the principal overreacted, but he was doing it to stop violence. We don't know how volatile that school is.

    Is it any different than those God Hates ***s nut-jobs? We tolerate them, but know they are jerks.
     
  3. Rothen

    Rothen Guest

    Wearing the U.S. flag as an article of clothing is considered by many, especially older Americans, as desecration. Applied patches, pins, or printed flags, etc.. are different and completely acceptable. Most likely, I believe, because the image of the flag is displayed whole with the stars to the left and is not cut up and sewn together like an article of clothing would be. Several years ago many would have frowned on our atheletes draping the flag across their shoulders as many seem to do at international events these days. Having served in the Army across the globe I personally enjoy seeing the Stars and Stripes displayed in any manner that is not meant to be distasteful or lacking respect.
     
  4. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    And?

    This happened in America, Cinco De Mayo is not an American Holiday.

    I don't celebrate July 4th in Mexico City.

    Cultural sensitivity is being taken way too far.
     
  5. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *watches* This is a touchy subject for a game forum...
     
  6. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    This unfortunately happens in many countries :sad4:
     
  7. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    I feel ya man but seriously look at who the majority of this country chose as thier president this time around..this sort of thing should surprise no one in light of that.

    Same thing happened in my highschool when some boys were asked not to wear shirts with the confederate flag on it due to certain parties being offended while some other boys were allowed to parade around in Malcom X shirts that also offended certain parties. Granted the confederate flag is a far cry from the American flag but at the time the confederate flag still flew over almost every southern capital city right beneath the American one. Prinicipal was right to bar the confederate flag shirts but should have done the same with other potentially offensive materials.

    This case is far worse; the American flag has NONE of the negative connotations associated with it that the confederate one does. I am glad I live in a state where noone would ever consider barring a young man from properly wearing the American flag.
     
  8. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    *snip*

    The 5th of May is not Mexican Independence Day, but it should be! And Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday, but it should be. Mexico declared its independence from mother Spain on midnight, the 15th of September, 1810. And it took 11 years before the first Spanish soldiers were told and forced to leave Mexico.

    So, why Cinco de Mayo? And why should Americans savor this day as well? Because 4,000 Mexican soldiers smashed the French and traitor Mexican army of 8,000 at Puebla, Mexico, 100 miles east of Mexico City on the morning of May 5, 1862.

    The French had landed in Mexico (along with Spanish and English troops) five months earlier on the pretext of collecting Mexican debts from the newly elected government of democratic President (and Indian) Benito Juarez. The English and Spanish quickly made deals and left. The French, however, had different ideas.

    Under Emperor Napoleon III, who detested the United States, the French came to stay. They brought a Hapsburg prince with them to rule the new Mexican empire. His name was Maximilian; his wife, Carolota. Napoleon's French Army had not been defeated in 50 years, and it invaded Mexico with the finest modern equipment and with a newly reconstituted Foreign Legion. The French were not afraid of anyone, especially since the United States was embroiled in its own Civil War.

    The French Army left the port of Vera Cruz to attack Mexico City to the west, as the French assumed that the Mexicans would give up should their capital fall to the enemy -- as European countries traditionally did.

    Under the command of Texas-born General Zaragosa, (and the cavalry under the command of Colonel Porfirio Diaz, later to be Mexico's president and dictator), the Mexicans awaited. Brightly dressed French Dragoons led the enemy columns. The Mexican Army was less stylish.

    General Zaragosa ordered Colonel Diaz to take his cavalry, the best in the world, out to the French flanks. In response, the French did a most stupid thing; they sent their cavalry off to chase Diaz and his men, who proceeded to butcher them. The remaining French infantrymen charged the Mexican defenders through sloppy mud from a thunderstorm and through hundreds of head of stampeding cattle stirred up by Indians armed only with machetes.

    When the battle was over, many French were killed or wounded and their cavalry was being chased by Diaz' superb horsemen miles away. The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build the greatest army the world had ever seen. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Puebla, essentially ending the Civil War.

    Union forces were then rushed to the Texas/Mexican border under General Phil Sheridan, who made sure that the Mexicans got all the weapons and ammunition they needed to expel the French. American soldiers were discharged with their uniforms and rifles if they promised to join the Mexican Army to fight the French. The American Legion of Honor marched in the Victory Parade in Mexico, City.

    It might be a historical stretch to credit the survival of the United States to those brave 4,000 Mexicans who faced an army twice as large in 1862. But who knows?

    In gratitude, thousands of Mexicans crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces. As recently as the Persian Gulf War, Mexicans flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America.

    Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862. VIVA! el CINCO DE MAYO!!

    e pluribus unum <--- That includes those of Mexican decent.
     
  9. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    America the beautiful...

    Did you see the story about south park recently?

    Bottom line is comedy central are cowards...

    America has been build on double standards for the last what? 50-60 years?
     
  10. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    I think we should be able to wear these kind of things on any day. When you have a group of kids that pretty much planned to all wear the American flag and more on Cinco De Mayo, you have to admit it was done intentionally and not in a positive way.

    Might I add that it wasn't *to quote 99.5*, "just some Old Navys American flag t-shirt", they had their entire wardrobe done up. I heard red, baggy parachute pants were a part of it as well.

    Either way, if it was done as a joke or racism, it was uncalled for in my opinion. Yes, this is America, but does that give people the right to be ignorant?

    I thought we were a country made of many nationalities?
     
  11. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    This all comes down to ethnic diversity. Everyone needs to respect one another and respect their cultural differences and value his/her opinions. Events like this muddy the water and make it hard to determine who the bad guy is. Both cases are perfectly legal due to freedom of speech. If it is how Vortex explained it, since I did not read the article, then the U.S. kids were in the wrong for poking fun at the Mexican kids. BUT, that does not deter from the fact that they were within their constitutional rights to freedom of speech. Same with the Mexican kids. However, I believe the principle did the right thing, because he was squashing the incident at the lowest level before it escalated into a bigger event. Possible gang violence? Separation of students? All of which will lead to a negative work environment and will diminish mission accomplishment, which ultimately is creating an positive environment of learning. However, everyone will interpret the situation based on their own merits and beliefs rather than looking at the facts.




    Go Air Force PME lesson, "Diversity" :)
     
  12. Mook Chessy

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    This is the USA plain and simple...the colors Red/White and Blue should bother know one, ever, regardless of the day of the year!

    I for one love what Arizona did and cant wait until we abopt the same laws here!!!

    It is impossible to offend a person that is here illeagally, they have zero rights IMHO!

    Not only should they check their papers but be able to hit them with rubber hoses if they fail to present the correct documents!

    Embrace citizenship or GTFO of our country!!

    F Nancy P.!!!!!!
     
  13. Sturdy

    Sturdy Guest

    Perhaps you forget that we took California by force from Mexico in an unprovoked attack?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo

    I am of Irish decent and cant recall anyone ever complaining about the Irish flags being waved at a St. Paddy's day parade...

    Anyhoo
    Dragon killing time.
     
  14. Monolith

    Monolith Sage
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    I fully understand the situation........I've been in the military for a long time and if anyone has seen diversity, I have. I've also seen where we have to be more sensitive to other nationalities. If your military.....you would understand what I'm talking about. How many times have you seen other nationalities display their hertitage colors/flags. Nothing wrong with that. I don't see anyone removing their heritage flag/colors on 4 July or etc.

    My argument is that this is a free country. It just seems that we are on egg shells, and the same freedom is not expressed the same across the boards with all nationalities.
     
  15. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    Some of us would glady redress that error in judgment and happily return California to Mexico:).
     
  16. Monolith

    Monolith Sage
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    Especially when California is in more debt than US, hehe....j/k
     
  17. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    This has nothing to do with the original topic. That's just redneck southern white power rhetoric.

    Arizona has over-stepped Federal Government and the Constitution. Racially profiling everyone just to find certain people isn't American at all.

    Remember, unless you are 100% American Indian you too are an immigrant.
     
  18. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It was an over reaction (unless the act was instigating possible violence), but they were just trying to be pricks, regardless of whether or not its a recognized american holiday.

    And even though its not a recognized holiday (neither is Valentines Day or Halloween) Cinco de Mayo IS celebrated in America, by Americans (of all heritage), and don't pretend its not. It was celebrated at my WORK by my EMPLOYERS for heavens sake.

    There's nothing WRONG with respecting other people's culture, and "celebrating" you own just to spite someone else celebrating theirs in a country where they are commonly viewed as villains and outsiders is NOT cool. Regardless of country, or perpetrator.
     
  19. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Hah... and of course if they are of Mexican decent then they couldn't possibly be citizens. Perfect example of the result of this xenophobic fervor.
     
  20. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Oh no, I don't disagree with you whats so ever. I fully understand what you're saying. Hell, I'm studying Iraqi culture currently because I'll be deployed in October. Its just very unfortunate what we've become as a nation, to have to hide who we are for fear of "hurting" someone else s feelings...just pathetic to me.
     
  21. Monolith

    Monolith Sage
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    Yes......you couldn't have said it better. We have to walk on egg shells just to please other nationalities. I can't tell you how many times I've seen other nationalities disrespect this countries(American) hertitage. If we say anything....then were racial or not providing freedom of speech. This is such BS. Our constitution getting twisted. Anyone saying they don't see this must not get out much.
     
  22. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Amazingly, the mail still ran today and I still had to work. In America, Cinco de Mayo is just another day.

    There is nothing wrong with respecting other cultures, just like there is nothing wrong with wearing an america flag shirt (other than the improperness of it under the US Flag Code) ANY TIME THEY WANT.

    If they were doing it to be jerks, then so what, Americans have the same right to be jerks as anyone else in this world.

    To me, its disrespectful to fly any other countries flag in this country. To me, anyone who does that is being a jerk. But guess what, they have the right to do so and they dont get sent home from school for it.
     
  23. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    QFT
     
  24. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    I think i just fell in love with you...
     
  25. Revvo

    Revvo Slightly Crazed
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    I would hope he does, smoking kills.
     
  26. Sturdy

    Sturdy Guest

    The idea of an "American Nationality" is in itself a little suspect- it means whatever you think it means.

    Criticism of America or Americans is within anyone's rights. Citizen's of the United States certainly feel free to criticize a wide variety of people-governments, sports teams, plushy toys, religions, foods, etc etc.

    The idea that criticism in and of itself has any bearing on the value or merit of a specific ethnic group, nationality, or political philosophy seems ridiculous. If you don't have a counter argument you don't get to participate.

    Complaining that someone should not disagree with you on the basis of an identity you have assigned to them will only make them hate you more.
     
  27. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Why would you say that? Haven't you heard that stupid saying people say?

    "God needed another angel"?
     
  28. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    I think what the posters was trying to say is if you love your country so much then why in **** ain't you there instead of here?

    I'll keep it real i can't stand america and soon as i can i'm leaving...BUT i do respect anyone who has fought for this country and protected my freedom...
     
  29. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Again, since we are 99% of us not of AMERICAN heritage, why would it be disrespectful to fly a non american flag?

    Secondly this was a school. Not like the police ran some dude down. These administrators have to run a school, and they have to keep incidents and disruptions at a minimum so that they can at least try to create an environment conducive to teaching/learning. Some students came to school with the intent of getting a reaction from a large group. And for the record they didn't send them home, they asked them to turn the shirts inside out (also fyi, this is a common practice when someone wears something that will be disruptive, it happened at schools I went to plenty of times, SOP) OR go home, the kids CHOSE to go home.

    As an act floating out in space... yes anyone has the right to wear/say whatever they want. And like I said, I wouldn't have messed with it UNLESS it ended up in conflict. But this was a school, the administration made a judgment call. Its a hard hard job, and they were just doing what they thought was best, and it may not have been a good call. Regardless, its understandable if you put yourself in their shoes.

    And again, Halloween is just another day, Valentines day is just another day, any holiday that isn't New years, MLK, Presidents, Memorial, 4th, Labor, Columbus, Thanksgiving, or Christmas, are "just another day". But its just being obstinate to act like the myriad of other minor (and major) non "official" holidays don't get celebrated en mass, Cinco de Mayo definitely included.
     
  30. Chardonnay

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    Half those "holidays" have important meaning to AMERICA so how would they just be another day? And how does Cinco de Mayo have any meaning at all in america?

    Please give me mighty knowledge oh wonder of the world...

    Ya admin made a judgement call based on fear like the majority of america now when it involves race...

    Just like the south park thing...

    Comedy Central lets south park creators make fun of ANYTHING but soon as mohammad was to be shown and the creators got death threats the image of him was covered...it's pure fear...and this country has been ran like that for awhile now...
     
  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    :thumbup1:
     
  32. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    QFT

    IF one is celebrating Cinco De Mayo on AMERICAN SOIL, they should not have any issues with the US flag showing up along with any other flag or symbols that go with Cinco De Mayo HERE, on US SOIL.

    As for profiling...EVERY wave of immigrants to this nation has been pigeonholed and profiled till folks got to know em all better etc. and each wave proved their own worth too on this soil, yet they were all *labeled* profiled discriminatory like ways...they didnt CRY A RIVER to the authorities over every insult they may have endured when they all first came here, they earned their stripes, made their way, became accepted and valued, every wave of em all. Course look how many of these immigrants thru out all US HISTORY made their way here............LEGALLY ! ! ! ! Our govt. needs to get a clue, our borders ARE utterly ignored and not even secured any longer.

    Course, if it was hs kids, principals are gonna do what they feel they have to do...in this nanny state, which our country has become, where no one is permitted to BE nor celebrate whom they are cuz...someone else's touchy feely feelings are gonna be insulted, bah cry me a river !! Some folks need to get a thicker skin. EVERY wave of immigrants here had to EARN their places, got made fun of then, yet in the end, proved their worth over the past 200 +++ to the others whom may have come before them here.

    Course my ancestors and husband's too, each all went thru the years of legal bs to become LEGAL immigrants to the United States of America ~! Those whom come legallly, no matter where they hail from, I got NO ISSUES with...We can use people of all walks of life here, in this nation, of *legal* Immigrants.

    *puts on her ITALY^ USA FLAG tshirt down here in Mississippi, for 'Italian Festival' up in OHIO* tosses every one some WINE AND Rigattonis with pasta sauce ! :) So there !
     
  33. Chardonnay

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    To be honest if i was the kids parents i would be getting a lawsuit ready...

    America the beautiful...
     
  34. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well I don't see how...lets pick a few...

    Valentines day: Remembrance of a -European- circa 300 AD saint...

    Halloween: Originated from -Celtic- shamanic tradition...

    St. Patrick's day: Celebrations of -Irish- heritage. Again named after a circa 300 ad saint.

    April fools day: Another ancient European tradition.

    None of these have anything to do with America. There ARE however people in america that relate to those holidays because they are inline with their HERITAGE, and tradition. Just like Cinco de Mayo for Mexican Americans, and other Americans who like to have an excuse to throw a party/go get plastered.

    Its exactly the same. The only difference is that people of Mexican heritage are the popular target of the day because of the illegal immigration issues.
     
  35. Chardonnay

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    I agree those are bull**** holidays...sadly i'm not the official holiday maker or those wouldn't even be holidays in america...

    Again theres a lot of bull**** in this country i dont agree with but sadly i have to deal with...
     
  36. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    This is the crux of the issue.
     
  37. Chardonnay

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    No, the issue is two american boys were punished for celebrating america heritage...wrongly...

    Now lets see if we ever see 2 mexican boys in the news for wearing mexican flags shirts on ANY american holiday...

    Like i said before its called double standards and it happens in this country everyday...know why? Because we let it happen out of fear...
     
  38. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Here are the flags at the St Patrick's day parade in NY

    [​IMG]



    Soon you will be push one for Spanish put 2 for English.


    I am so sick of this PC bull****.
     
  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Yes. That is the issue. I have not said I agree or disagree.
     
  40. Chardonnay

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    Ofcourse not, your afraid too...because you want to be politically correct...am i right?
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well since america like maybe no other country is composed of almost entirely non native specimens, parts of the culture of each group are eventually going to become the amalgamated "American" culture. Its just continuing that trend.

    The hatred of (much of which was due to propagandist practices of the time, like we see today) in Native American, Irish, Asian, African people... and on and on which are now much dwindled for example. It's just the Mexicans turn to be the hated group.
     
  42. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No. You are not right. I am disconnected so I may fairly mod this highly volatile and off topic thread.
     
  43. Chardonnay

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    So having a opinion stops you from doing your job as a mod?
     
  44. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    Yep, it's racism plain and simple.
     
  45. Chardonnay

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    Your right...but what does two boys wearing american flags on their shirts have anything to do with that? Like i said before the boys were punished unjustly and if i was the parents i would be preparing a lawsuit right now...because even admins in schools do stupid ****...
     
  46. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    Maybe next year on Martin Luther King Day kids should go to school wearing Rebel Flags and KKK Outfits.

    You know, because they have the right.

    You're rights end when they infringe someone else's.
     
  47. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No. If I share my opinion and wind up locking this thread and/or handing out infractions later it might seem unfair. It is not easy being a mod.
     
  48. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    If it was just American flags...maybe. But they wore pants and bandannas to match. They were going out of their way to be disrespectful.

    Intolerance just breeds hatred.
     
  49. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    This is spinning way out there... There is no off topic board I am willing to send this too.
     
  50. Chardonnay

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    WOW! Nothing like comparing hate groups to OUR AMERICAN FLAG...stick with the facts please you made yourself look foolish...
     
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