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An end to factions?

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Hoffs, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    Mesanna was just on the shard asking for opinions about factions. These are the salient points of what she had to say:

    a) She/The Devs view the whole faction system as being too broken to fix. They are in favour of going back to something like the Chaos/Order system.

    b) This is not Siege-specific. She is visiting various shards and any changes would be across UO; there will be no changes/systems especially for this shard.

    c) The proposed new system would not be guild-specific along the current lines; each person could opt-in as they wish so that some members of a guild may be in the system and others not.

    d) They can't use the old Chaos/Order name for the new system. They are looking for alternative names.

    e) She would like to get feedback from people about this whole issue and what should be in the new system.

    So there you have it. If you have any points of view or suggestions, please email barmstrong at ea.com with them. But keep in mind that she will likely be receiving many emails on this so try and keep your ideas succinct and clearly presented. Leave out the emotive rants and superfluous stuff and just present fairly concise and well-reasoned arguments or opinions.
     
  2. Viscount Goop

    Viscount Goop Journeyman

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    interesting!
     
  3. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
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    Well i would appretiate a definate answer on whats they are gonna do about factions are they forsure gonna delete? because IMO that sux ive played factions since the begining of factions so whats that since 99-2000 some where in there. I like the fight over territory/towns i like tha guard and defending the base it creates gameplay other then just being RED, if ya wanna PVP. Warring Guilds if OK but there is no score to be kept. IDK this suck how soon this gonna happen?
     
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  4. HoldenCaulfield

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Crimson Savages CLAN

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    My main wish would be if they do change that it is not limited to just a two party system. The 4 factions are nice for separation, two is too little (no pun intended). Cannot play just alliance or horde as a reference - there are so many gray areas!
     
  5. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No one fights over sigils anymore... maybe a skirmish. The end of factions happened with faction artifacts. It all became about farming silver and vending machine artifacts. Using monster ignore to grief EM events is just a bonus. Factions is broken... those that lean on it just will not admit it.
     
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  6. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    I'd like the idea of sieges and skirmishers, once again I have to point out an interesting system being developed for elder scrolls online I'll provide a link when I find it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
     
  7. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    Pretty much everything we know was in my first post. Nothing is set in stone at the moment and she is just eliciting feedback. But it did seem fairly clear that they do not view the current faction system as fixable and want to put something else in its place. But given the current numbers on the Dev team and the things they already have in the works, I wouldn't expect anything to happen this year.
     
    #7 Hoffs, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Fight Club?
     
  9. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.

    2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
    3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
    4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight.
    5th RULE: One fight at a time.
    6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes.
    7th RULE: Fights will go on as long as they have to.
    8th RULE: If this is your first night at FIGHT CLUB, you HAVE to fight.
     
  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Kewl. Scrap it. Hope they still let people fight over territory or some other recognizable way. Skip the special items.
     
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    This is my concern as well. I, like Sprago, have played factons since it's inception. I am not a fan of factions however. I have never liked stat loss and I have about 2 years prior faction pvp experience on this shard that says fights lasted longer when you could not stat your opponent; back in the day "res-fighting" and getting your fallen up was a primary part of group combat. If they had about 6 different groups you could join that would be good but 4 would do. Issues with non joined healers would have to be adressed though. if they could come up with a way for a healer to flag as an agressor if they chose to heal a "chaos/order" guild member while in combat then I'd be all for it.

    On an unrelated note I'd seriously like to see reds be given some sort of anti virue powers that basically allowed them to protect and start champ spawns; I think you may see more red guilds spring up. I would also like the see reds be able to be town citizens and have the mayors of towns decide if that town will or will not sell to reds. I'd also like to see the sacrifce virtue eliminated from SP.
     
  12. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    Scrap hero/villain - scrap factions - scrap exploiting monster ignore town prices etc.
     
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  13. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Seriously... Monster ignore has to go. I have been in factions for years and I know what this means.
     
  14. PwnBroker

    PwnBroker Adventurer

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    Oh noes!!!!!! any O-S still around? and how about my buddy Garfield?
     
  15. Creapor

    Creapor Journeyman

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    The end of factions means the rising of the reds on Siege. The shard will soon have a lot more reds meaning a lot more people being killed and complaining about various other reasons. People are creatures of habit, and if they cannot complain about factions they will just find something else in place of it. I'm fine with it either way but when i see people talk about PKs sending people packing from the shard and the reason for lack of population growth on Siege. It seems like a double standard when they wanna group factions as being the reason for exploits or hacks when it is being used as it was intended to. When one joins factions it takes on additional risks such as being attacked in more situations than blues would be and taking stat loss and out of action if you were killed. These additional risks just so happen to receive some perks such as faction artifacts (which also require you to farm for them people!) and invoking evil powers! seems like a fair trade off and remember, everyone has the option to join factions but not everyone wants to take the additional risk.
     
  16. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I believe another system will replace factions. One not so broken, yer gonna get yer fight on.
     
    #16 kelmo, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  17. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    a) She/The Devs view the whole faction system as being too broken to fix. They are in favour of going back to something like the Chaos/Order system.
    Sounds good.
    1) It need to be more simple, like a few global PvP guilds.

    Pirates - Color: Red, much like old Evil system
    This turns you permanently red and makes you freely attackable.
    You will gain the title of "the Pirate," and you will have "[Pirate]" attached to your name when looked at.
    Pirates are not automatically killed in justice regions. In fact, they are under the protection of Lord British's guards just like innocents are.
    In Felucca and on Siege/Mugen, Pirates can attack blue without getting a murderer count but can only loot resources. If they loot non stackable items, they can be reported and that will make them attackable in town to for x hours, just like if they had 5 murderer counts, other murderer rules will count too until their hours wear off. Their pirate title will show different, maybe [*Pirate*]
    In Trammel, they can only attack other global guilds.
    Pirates can kill Guardians and other blue and red global guilds

    Interacting with Pirates
    Healing pirates is a criminal act.
    Attacking pirates makes you gray to all pirates for two minutes. In addition, you are full lootable if killed. You do not get this flag for attacking an Pirate player that just attacked an innocent.
    Looting a Pirate corpse will make you gray to all Pirates for two minutes as well.

    Guardians - Color: Blue, much like old Hero system
    Guardians can attack and loot Pirates and other reds. They can't attack blue without risk for being reported and that will make them attackable for x hours, just like if they had 5 murderer counts, other murderer rules will count too until their hours wear off. Their Guardian title will show different, maybe [*Guardian*] and they will be red
    Guardians can be attacked of red global guilds.

    Now we need at least one more red and one more blue global guild, not sure of the names.
    And we need some kind of kill rewards and maybe something to fight over but I believe the system itself will help PvP at each guild will have PvP members. Good guilds will protect their crafters and farmers. Evil guilds will be able to have crafters, who are not forced to join a PvP system.

    c) The proposed new system would not be guild-specific along the current lines; each person could opt-in as they wish so that some members of a guild may be in the system and others not.
    I like that, that will allow some guildmembers to join a PvP+ system but I believe the guild should have to choose one global guild, their members can join so a good guild will choose one of the blue global guilds and an evil guild will choose one of the red global guilds. If a guildmember not in a global guild choose to help a member, who are in one, that be with healing or fighting, I think he temperery should be joined the global guild his guild support, maybe for 30-60 min.

    I wouldd love to see a new system, that do not split guilds like Faction do and do not effect town taxes.
     
    #17 FrejaSP, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
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  18. OldAsTheHills

    OldAsTheHills Lore Master
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    We are what we do on this shard!

    Classify us as following:
    1. Hunters of resources; all pvmers , miners, fishers, treasure maps finders, lumberjacks, etc. No murder counts, not a guild thief.
    2. Crafters of items, No murder counts, not a guild thief.
    3. Thief, player who has joined a thief guild. Should only show grey if a crime occurred.
    4. Murderer, player who has five or more murder counts. Should show grey to everyone until attacks a player, then red. Should be list as criminal at banks posters and players post bounties there after killing someone.
    5. Trainees; new players without one GM 100.0 skill... should have no murder counts, not a guild thief, and allowed self raised for first 30 days once a day.
    6. Guards; No murder counts, not a guild thief. Qualified status of Knight of Justice, or Knight of Valor, or Knight of Compassion.
    7. Lords; players who play over one year and did not join of the first six classifications.
    8. Merchants: buyers and sellers of items and resources; also, money lenders. Bonded, has at least 1 million gold in bank vault.

    The cities stones should be used to allow players to join one of these eight groups.
    I am leaving what bonus or penalties should occur if players join or fail to join any of these groups.

    *stares*
    Yahaxithonix
     
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  19. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I am all for a do over on factions. My idea would be a faction you make yer self. Opt in to the faction system and create yer own gang. If ya want to own a town... do it. If ya own a town ya get benefits. You can have faction crafters make stuff for the gang. If ya have silver... you can craft some really good stuff.
     
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  20. OldAsTheHills

    OldAsTheHills Lore Master
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    I wish to address the Class Murderer as follows. A Murderer, player who has five or more murder counts. Should show blue to everyone until attacks a player. Then, if scores a kill, that player is red for two minute and then grey for ten minutes. If killed player posts a reward ; standard value 1000 gold pieces, then murderer stays grey for five days. Each day: every player has one life point which the murderer gains once and only once per kill. If the killed is killed again then no life point is gained. If a murderer is killed by another player, that murderer loses a life point from rank count and also his own life point. Note that the winner gets one and only one life point.
    If the murderer fails to kill, then the crime is attempted murderer which leave the murderer grey for ten minutes.
    Regardless, if a murderer dies each time, that murderer loses a life point from the rank count. If a murderer dies multiple times, that murderer will lose a rank count life point each time. If rank count is zero, no life points are gained or lost.
    The portrait of Ricardo at banks should allow access to posting rewards and listing existing criminals. The Guards class can gain an arrest warrant from this portrait which if clicked upon and target corpse of criminal yields the bounty in form of a bank check.
    The accumulation of rank life points will establish relative ranking among Murderers. A Murderer's rank is a percentile of his/hers point divided by total of all points when first logging online shard. The Guards class should have a similar point count system.

    I am open to suggestions what the percentiles ranks will mean.
    Should the points decay? It is zero sum game between Guards and Murderers, but the sums will rise over time. Shall a player have a cap?
    Forge Pardons may have new meaning, any ideas?

    *stares*
    Yahaxithonix

    I have ideas for the other classes. Standby.
     
  21. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I don't like the silver thing and special factions items. I feel it would be better if the factions was working better with the community, so the fights was over resource and spawn spots and about protections of player towns and shops there.

    I do like the idea about being able to make your own faction, that could be a part of the alliance system. Let take the White Counsil, the alliance GIL is in, they could set rules for their factions players.

    If we take the Guardian / Pirate rules I posted as basic, then there could be a few extra options, like are murderes allowed, are thieves allowed, maybe special looting rules. Also being attackable/can attack enemies in town or not could be an option as that may make more less heavy PvP'ers join. They should only show orange outside town.
    If we goes back to first year of Siege, we had some factions on Siege, there was the non RP red guilds, the RP red guilds, (Orc, UND, UDL, 8X), Anti PK guilds and crafter/merchant guilds. Then we got Faction and it got messed up, as the old allied guilds would join different factions and become enemies and the less PvP active guilds gave up faction as it was to hard for their non PvP members.

    With a new system, where peaceful guildmembers could choose to stay out, I believe it would work much better, special if the factions was based on good vs evil.

    A system, that works with alliances and maybe the new town system vould be metter than what we have now.
     
  22. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Not bad ideas but a little to blue for my taste, to get some wars, we need more red RP options, also some who may be red buy still are a kind of guards like the red guards we had in old days in Safe Haven
     
  23. Førsaken_

    Førsaken_ Journeyman
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    The only thing I'll really miss is the 3 FCR on Crystalline Ring...Which kind of sucks, that's the only thing I've become dependent on with my mystics.
     
  24. Ducky Momo

    Ducky Momo Journeyman

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    With the new town stuff you should be able to get a free 3fcr if you join the correct city.
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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  26. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I don't care what they do on normal shards but Siege was born without stat loss and should stay that way as we have no item insurance.
    Give normal shards back a temp version of stat loss may help Siege as we will gain more players again :p
     
    #26 FrejaSP, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  27. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    I do like permanent stat loss for Reds or faction members (especially on Siege)
     
  28. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Sorry but then you don't know what you speak about. the color of the char show nothing about ho deserve punishement.
    I have been red most of my years on Siege, but I did not ruin anyones game and noone would want to see my char ruined.
    I have lost so many friends, who gave up on stat loss, when it destroyed their char. I have meet several blue, who was alot more nasty and evil than them.
    Try go red and you will see some very nasty blue and yo will learn, color mean nothing, action do.
    I fighted for years to get stat loss removed from UO, I never ever will want to see it back.
     
  29. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I concur, two teams (for lack of a better term) is too stale and boring. Three teams opens up a rock-paper-scissors relationship and is better than two. Somewhere between four and six teams would be optimal. It would provide alot of conflict variety and allow for potential alliance (temporarily, ;)) of teams against a common rival team.

    If they align it with the City Loyalty, it would be best if they avoided having each city be its own team. A nine way battle would be too confusing and loose its intended stucture and sense of community, it may as well be a free-for-all field fight (we don't need a new mechanic to do this). There should be a core set of cities which are in conflict (e.g. Britain, Trinsic, and Moonglow), with the other non-core cities (e.g. Skara Brae, Jhelom, Minoc, New Magincia, Vesper, and Yew) allowed to choose their allegince to a core city (or total neutrality, where conflict within the city, by any team, is considered criminal). Banners could be placed around the city limits which display current allegiences or neutrality. Six additional non-core cities could be added when the city loyalty system gets expanded to other facets.

    Edit: Even though I said 4-6 teams would be optimal, I used three in my examples, because it was easier/quicker to type out. I would prefer a 4-6 team core conflict.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
    #29 Barry Gibb, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  30. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I've never been fond of the current stat loss. It is too severe and too long.

    The intent (of stat loss) is to have some tangible award/benefit to the victorious team. Current stat loss effectively removes an opponent from the fight (they may choose to come back, but they will be far weaker and less of a challenge), the victorious team gains strength in numbers. The intent of stat loss is sound, but if it is too severe it will be come a deterent to participation. This is the state of the current faction stat loss.

    In the new system, I would like to see:
    1. A less severe, shorter duration stat loss. - The team award is still present. However, the defeated opponent will be more inclined to rejoin the fight (even if under stat, his team needs him). Stat loss should be a set back (like holding in football), not a time out (like a penalty in hockey).
    2. Award the victor with a temporary buff. - Give the individual (who scored the kill) a slight buff for short time (~1 min). Nothing too drastic, perhaps random, maybe an extra 10 Staiman or Mana, 2 MR, 5 HPs, or 5% LMC for example. It could even have a second tier if they get another opponent kill within the duration of the buff. Give it a cool down timer and a fancy name like Champion's Resolve. The player also needs a tangible benefit for being successful.
    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  31. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    I think if they end factions, it will just bring an end to PvP even more on Siege.
     
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  32. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    The biggest pvp battles ever fought on this shard were before factions came along and before any item based fighting I.e. AoS. What today's pvp'r doesn't realize is the fun/excitement of the fight! The thrill of killing someone. The thrill of being killed LoL! All today's pvp'r is worried about is losing his precious gear and wondering if it will be sold back. Then, instead of trash talking about how someone smoked you so fast it made your head spin, we get trash talking about someone trashing their gear. Who cares about your gear I say. If you need it, go get it. If you complain about having to farm for hours instead of fighting, well, thank the developers for giving you this crutch. Maybe if you we're a good pvp'r you wouldn't need a crutch eh? Wipe the gear! Wipe factions! Give us back our PvP damnit!! If you can't fight without your crutch, carebearville that way ------->
     
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  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Agree, PvP was much better on Siege before Faction was added to the shard. We had alot large red guilds, ORC, UND, UDL, 8x, CE, GC, -F-, FA, GOD is just a few of them. Then we had the anti guilds, BHI, BLD, CWS, TAK, SHR am d a few more I think and it was guild in size with GIL and Arr or bigger.
    Siege woulld do better without faction, but something like ordre/Chaos and Evil/Hero would a be nice add
     
    #33 FrejaSP, Jun 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  34. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    Regardless, I get PvP everyday in intervals of 20-50 minutes for all day long if I want. UO just needs to die already.
     
  35. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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  36. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    You know... perhaps you should just move on. No reason to wish for the game to die. Many of us still enjoy what we have and what we do. If you are just going to be a hater... I can make sure you never have to see this forum again.
     
  37. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Here's my feedback.

    As someone who's literally been here since the beginning of the game, I hope whatever system goes in steers things towards a more cohesive design. I had hoped Siege would have shifted direction, the design. Rarity/value versus functionality/utility. Favoring the latter... Maybe the fanfare for simplicity really demonstrates a time when going out and doing something mattered. Everything functioned together. Oh.The.Immersion.

    There's too many layers. Simplify. Please build around the virtue system.

    Innocent(blue)/Criminal(gray)/Murderer(red)/Enemy(orange)/Allied(green).

    On Siege, the devs would notice that there is no safe zone. Big deal if someones participating if for no reward.

    Imagine every murderer is automatically in the chaos. Blues can opt into order. Allow reds into facets with the tram ruleset. Obviously people will complain about blues helping order. And it should be the opposite of "you are not allowed to do that". There should be choice. And if someone decides to throw themselves into the fray, they become a part of it. So if someone goes gray, they are essentially temporarily in chaos. Obviously people will complain about grays intentionally going so they could stomp people. I say it's optional for a reason. And it's not just reds in chaos, but thieves too. Only I think you'd need a detective or forensics to tell. Make it interesting (by making it simple, but sweeping.) Thieves can't steal from non-order. Everyone will be banging into each other. There'd be the ultimate safety net for those who want to play like trammel is currently.

    I fear for siege. I think functionality makes this shard fun and hard to play, for all. Because we're constantly going after each other. Instead, we call it hard to play because of the rarity/value while everybody hides from each other... Whatever system goes into place it should not look like farm farm farm pvp die farm farm farm. This method creates a poor atmosphere of animosity and jealousy. I've always done pretty good for myself in this game, so I don't know what it's like to really struggle. You don't need a reason to make pvp happen. People looovvveeee pvp. You need reasons for people to get out of their private - nobody can access homes and into the world without fear of losing pixels, but instead, let us feel the fear of running into "so and so" while out in the world having fun.

    These are the 8 virtues. There are 8 counter virtues in chaos. Build the entire game around them in every aspect. This way you can cater your game to every possible audience.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,
    Draxous
     
    #37 Draxous, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  38. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    Are you trying to abuse your power and threaten me? I am not breaking any rules there sweetheart.
     
    yars likes this.
  39. Rumpy

    Rumpy Slightly Crazed
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    Of course PvP was better as there was more population. There were towns to raid and guilds who focused on protecting blues. Nothing like that exists these days. Even GIL as an all blue guild does not PvP. When raiding them, they simply hand over the spawn and leave. Where is the fun in that? Factions atleast add some fihgts. I doubt chaos or order will be used any more then factions are for Siege. Only people who want the PvP wll do it, so itll be the same guilds who do factions in the new system. It doesnt make a difference. I do believe adding artifacts was stupid. I like monster ignore and hero/evil as its a good balance for having to deal with statloss and such. People who hate it are more or less jealous they cant have monster ignore without being a part of factions and becoming a target to PvPers. Monster ignore was also way more powerful back when it protected from tamed pets and you culd also attack a Dark Father and have nothing else attack yoo. Since the nerf to it somehere in the 7 yers I left, its not that powerful anymore, but still good for some things and easily broken as well.

    Sorry for typos, on a tablet and editing is a pain.
     
  40. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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