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An idea for Poisoning skill!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mordecai/Hypocrisy, May 22, 2010.

  1. I'm sure everyone is rather upset that poisoning is completely useless if your enemy is chugging pots, which all good players will! I think it would be a sweet idea if maybe poisoning at different skill levels gave a different effect such as, at Gm poisoning when your target is hit with poison there defence chance is reduced 20% this will also stack with Hit lower defence property, for a short time of course maybe 80 poisoning adds hld 15% I haven't came up with a formula this is just an idea, also it doesn't have to lower there defence I think the point here is give poisoning a secondary affect would really make it alot more balanced and useable! This is just an idea discuss!
     
  2. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Seems like it should have some sort of added effect besides making you unable to heal and dealing very feeble damage per tick... if it ticks at all.

    Seems like it should effect your stat's/movement speed/swing speed since it's a physical sickness pretty much. More intense deductions to each with the higher level of poisoning, and make those effects linger after the initial poison is most likely instantly cured.

    Probably won't happen but it does need something!
     
  3. longrod

    longrod Guest

    i think if you have gm poisoning and use infecting speacial, it shoud cancel out the ability to cure with potions.i love the poisoning skill but have it on a stone for sometime because its currently worthless.
     
  4. Yeah I too have mine stoned, I think that goes for everyone else as well! The general idea here is added effects to poisoning could actually make it balanced and useable, now caneling out the cure pot thing would make it way to over powering!
     
  5. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Agreed
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    As I proposed YEARS before... I think the second infectious strike is inflected a tick of poison damage is instantly dealt and on top of that it poisons the target.

    lethal poison can tick for 20+ against 70 poison. So if the mana cost stays ******** (3 mana cost with 40lmc) for 3 mana you get Weapon Hit + Hit Spell + 20 LP + Enemy is now lethal poisoned which will becomes way too gimp.

    All in all I think the hit instantly dealing a tick of corresponding poison damage is the way to go. This way infectious strike will be ferocious on hit AND gives a lasting effect that well can still be cured. They also has to rebalanced the retardedly low mana cost for infectious strike if they really want to make poisoning work "right".

    And lethal poison negates pots effect would be so OP I wont even mention it.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    There should be poisons that do more damage so I agree.
    Penalties to defense/offense, speed, stats, and even a paralyze poison. How about a mana drain poison too, or a poison that prevents mana-regen for X amount of time.
     
  8. Badskidmarks

    Badskidmarks Guest

    I'd settle just for the ability to poison parrot wafers....seriously....make it work like the "alka seltzer" myth...I'd be happy as a pig in poo if I could walk the lands making parrots explode...
     
  9. Fink

    Fink Guest

    What if poison continued to deal residual damage after a successful cure like so:

    - Poison is inflicted (spell or special or bite).
    - You must cure it before you can begin healing again.
    - Poison continues to tick away, but can now be healed through.

    The initial infection will require a bandage, pot, petal, whatever. Only after the initial strike is dealt with in this way can further direct healing be applied to counter the residual damage ticks. The residual damage would be less potent than an untreated poison. Of course this would need much balancing, but that's the general concept.
     
  10. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Not to hi-jack the thread but without a way for poisoning to deliver basic results( more so, appropriate to their requirements), adding more to the list of things(interesting things, I must say) a single potion would easily cross out instantly is not really a solution.

    For example in various games there already are several poison types that hinder movement, slow down casting or even block healing methods. Add Ultima Online's cure potions' system to them and these games' players will rage over their rogues' and assassins' ineffectiveness. In fact, Ultima DOES have 3 poison types. Even if those weren't useless due to a couple of other details, cure potions would "take care" of that too.

    By the way who decided to introduce a poison that heals instead of say, a poison that would be oriented towards debilitating the target?! And who decided to introduce a poison designed for melee DPS templates who actually prefer to stay away from their target? None of those two decisions strike me as being well thought out. But that's not the issue here, it might have been if poisons offered anything at all to begin with!

    But it's not really that poisoning is ineffective, there's an almost indiscernible difference here- It is that poisoning is rendered ineffective by an item- Just a common item..! Balance that, and poisoning, as simple as it is without slowing down swinging or casting or prohibiting fast character movement, would be absolutely fine.

    Out of everything I've read in the thread I've started and in this one, second to implementing timers, I particularly like Fink's idea. There would be numbers(and details such as whether ticks would stack or not and such) to be looked at, surely, but IMHO it may very well be a possible solution should we assume the damage difference between ticks while being poisoned and ticks caused by the poison residue(if I may call it that for now) after the poison is cured, isn't unreasonable. :thumbup1:

    Yet I'd still prefer the most simple solution, which works fine for Heal potions already; Timers.

    It was also suggested that DR should govern the poisoning and curing systems but this would probably lead to extremes that would satisfy only one "side"(and more probably, to extremes that would satisfy no-one).

    *Glad to see I'm not the only "lunatic" loving this skill for what it could(or should) have been!*
     
  11. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Thats what I pretty much said in the other thread. Make level 4 and 5 like a strangle. You heal through it, but the ticks will keep coming. Call it a blood infection or something.
     
  12. I would love to see the poisoning skill get this type of upgrade. It has been way too easy for targets,pvp and AI mobs to cure most any poison attack.

    ...and not to derail the thread,but I think alot of skills and spells should have "side-effects" to them. Such as flamestrikes doing d.o.t. after the intial hit. Cold spells such as harm and hailstorm slowing down the target,and reduce swing speed and casting speed. Just my 2 cents there.
     
  13. Ninja with shurikens? :gun:
     
  14. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    LOL Connor! A very nice try indeed! ;) It was still a very bad idea for poisons with all the other ideas more than likely "tossed on the table" and so was Parasitic.

    @Chuckoatl
    Ah, yes, just noticed. :) It's generally my second favourite alternative to what we have, so far.
     
  15. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    What about making it not even effect the status bar if it's a type of poison that effects only movement or only swing speed etc... so then it wouldn't even be touched by cure potions since it's not effecting your health status bar?
     
  16. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I would be very carefull not to make it an exact copy of Bleed, Strangle or Talon Strike.

    Speaking of the latter, a similar mechanism could be used coding-wise for the poisonous residue's ticks.

    Random Brain-Storming #3716 : Use Poisoning with Anatomy and Tactics present on the template or vice-versa, directly on your target : "You study your target's anatomy and discover their weak points!"

    Depending on skills' and poisons' levels, one of the following or some of the following effects could be triggered :
    Your next Infectious Strike :
    - May not be cured through potions.
    - May be harder to cure.
    - May trigger secondary effects.
    - May further damage the target per tick.
    - May leave a poisonous residue after being cured.

    Not necessarily in this order either. All it would take would be a reasonable cool-down on the skill which players would actually use to target their prey.
     
  17. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    One thing that is not hardly being mentioned is that you do not require tactics to use poisoning. It is a tertiary skill...much akin to scribe for mages. Scribe adds about three damage per spell (if you are lucky)...20 for poisoning is way out of the question.

    If you really wish to see this fixed, diminished returns is the best option...or else a timer of sorts on cures. No reason to tweak the skill, just make the skill effective again by nerfing the cure.
     
  18. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Timers are what I have been pushing for in my own thread and here, as the primary solution.

    DRs would have unstable and un-desirable "side-effects" for all parties involved in a fight.

    I assume most of the posters do agree on timers and I have personally yet to see a single post validating that potion timers would cause further issues, IMHO including Logrus's reply on my thread. I'm tempted to run a Poll now..
     
  19. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I don't see DMs as an issue personally...if you or anyone else has a mystic then you already know DMs are being used for healing stone.
     
  20. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I will try to sum up my arguements against DRs by Copy/Pasting a few basic ones and stitching them together into as compact a size as I can manage;

    First, Diminishing Returns is something that could be over-come, unless EA/M plans to take it to a level where after certain consecutive uses potions simply do nothing. This will not be acceptable by players however.

    Second, if someone reaches their DR "limit", supposing EA/M uses DR to address the issue, and the cure potion has then no effect, I'm also guaranteed to poison them constantly while this applies!

    No matter how difficult you make it for a poison to be cured(unless it is unreasonably hard therefore making poisoning OPed), it WILL eventually be cured, and as this works now, "Eventually" translates into "Instantly". This is because the time it will take to "eventually" be cured by constantly drinking potions through macro-mushing, will be neglectible as there would be no timers.

    Assuming EA/M would allow curing the most potent poison through potions alone, it would still occur fast enough. And EA/M would, in this case, allow even for more than just slight chances to cure the strongest poison through potions alone because I said above : If they made it too hard to cure through potions alone poisoning would be deemed OPed.

    Then of course you'd have to face DRs applied to poisoners as well, and however potions work at THAT point, poisoning will be completely useless for what it requires and what it delivers.

    I see DRs as an All-Or-Nothing, last resort move that will have to affect EVERYTHING to a point of rendering all affected game assets COMPLETELY useless at a corresponding point(assuming I would be using 1 GCure for 1 Infect, both assets would at the same time(and after the same number of uses) end up being COMPLETELY useless), from merely consuming food to every single spell and ability in the game, with VERY FEW exceptions. Where DRs are applied I am certain a better solution could be found by thorough examination of the issue.

    Last but not least, as a poisoner would spam Infect whereas their target would have more than a couple of counters, the poisoner would be reaching their "limit" much faster than the other person would reach their potion limit even if we take into account that 1 LP equals at worst(and not in theory but in reality) 3 GCures.

    It is no solution IMHO.
     
  21. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    What about just adding a chance for the cure pot to work? If you get hit by a GM poisoner you have a 35% chance for the cure potion to work. The more pots you chug the lower your % chance is to cure from a pot.
     
  22. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    This would be the main idea behind using Diminishing Returns for this. But then you'd reach a No-Cure threshold, at which point you're dead meat against a poisoner. On the other hand if there is no such threshold, then without timers the poisoned player will be able to cure fast enough.

    Theoretically GCures offer 30% or 35% to cure LP, yet in practice they cure way too fast, plus at worst one needs 3, maybe 4 potions. So I am certain there will be a few critical issues if DRs are used.