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An idea for the undeveloped virtues

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hunters Moon, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    I have come up with ideas for a couple of undeveloped virtues. Namely Humility and Spirituality.

    Humility will run much like the Compassion escort quest but with major differences. You will be required to locate designated NPC's such as Beggars,Seekers of Adventers,and Nobles,to aid them in different ways. To aid them,you may be required to give them items they request from food if the NPC is "hungry" to bandages to heal an injury.

    The reward for each step up the ladder for this virtue:Lower base cost of items purchaced from NPC's

    Seeker: 4% discount from bulk NPC items​
    Follower: 8% discount from bulk NPC items​
    Knight: 12% discount from bulk NPC items​


    Spirituality is the root of all the virtues. Those that are followers of the virtues do so because they wish to please "the gods".Each time an exercise of any virtue is performed,a fraction is gained in Spirituality as a result.
    Example: Compassion virtue gain/20. Lets say,for discussion,compassion gives 20 "Points" per escort,the player would be given 1 "point" in Spirituality.As a side note to this virtue-this should have the fastest decay rate of any virtue.

    The reward for each step up the ladder for this virtue: Lower mana cost for each spell cast.

    Seeker: -2 mana cost per each spell cast. If a spell cost 20 mana,it would now cost 18 mana.​
    Follower: -4 Mana. A 20 mana cost spell would now cost 16 mana​
    Knight: -6 mana. A 20 mana spell would now cost 14 mana​


    Well those two ideas are what I came up with during my lunch hour at work today. =)
     
  2. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
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    I really like both ideas, but the idea for spirituality probally wouldnt fly. only becuase all the pvpers would cry about how reds cant use virtues and it would unbalance PVP.
     
  3. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Yeah we can't have a murderer being at a disadvantage :thumbsup:
     
  4. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
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    Oh no, Never!
     
  5. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Maybe develope the anti-virtues for the players that have red characters.
     
  6. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I like your idea for Humility.

    Spirituality is tough to come up with virtue-based decisions a player can make, but I think the negative mana cost reward as you listed it wouldn't work.

    If you could get -6 mana cost on spells, some spells would actually give you mana if you cast them.
     
  7. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Perhaps scale back the mana reduction depending on what circle spell casted or on mana cost of the spell....Or maybe instead of a type of LMC to the virtue,maybe add inherent mana regen without the need of items.

    Example:
    Seeker: 1 MR​
    Follower: 3 MR​
    Knight: 5 MR​
     
  8. Bruce Dickinson

    Bruce Dickinson Adventurer
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    My only problem with the mana reduction is that there are already enough blues in fel. We don't need more.
     
  9. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    No more virtues that only benefit blues, there's already too many false blues in Felucca, the number would jump drastically if there was something as unbalancing as MR or LMC for having a virtue (only usable by blues and easily macroed).
     
  10. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    cry? raising a legitimate concern is not crying.
     
  11. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    why? most blue pvp'ers are much worse trash than red players.

    i hate this whole red = bad thing.

    it is a fallacy.

    i mean i understand you guys think you are real funny and all that but you don't see or care about reality thus i think you should just keep your mouth shut unless you have something constructive to say.
     
  12. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    Umm drink..at one time in this game red was evil..and it either meant run from a red or KOS the reds...Yeah the Gods/devs nerfed it to make red not so bad as it once was but still.

    As for the virtues. I do have to agree sounds good. Also an anti virtue would be good too. Then again we been wating how long for them to finish the Virtues?
     
  13. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Its been nine years since they started the virtues. Its been eight years since they added the last three to the old "in development" section that never finished the last three.

    I like both ideas for Humility and Spirituality. The reward of 5 MR sounds too high to be fair. Maybe a total of 2 MR at Knight level that way others can balance it with armor.

    Another idea for Humility might be walking around in nothing but a monks robe, or escorting in a monks robe.

    What about Honesty? That must be the hardest one to figure out.
     
  14. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    What about renaming karma as spirituality?

    What about using the existing improved-odds-towards-getting-an-artifact-drop mechanic as humility? (the longer you go without a drop the more humility you have, as soon as you get one, you've lost some humility)

    (I tend to feel that its more important that the virtues describe the character's personality/values rather than that they offer some reward)
     
  15. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    *tags to last*

    Okay so we can't finish up the Virtue Quests because "reds" would not benefit from it? "If my red can't directly benefit from it means it should not be put in the game" Is this what the reds are saying? Keep the Virtue system unfinished to keep me happy? How selfish.
     
  16. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I think both ideas are excellent!

    The rewards and execution could use some tweaking, but the concept is great.

    For example, you could replace lower mana to LMC (numbers remain the same). This gives blues a little extra room for making good suits, and the rewards can be counter-balanced by the uber-suits that the reds already have.

    Or a new concept for seeker/follower/knight of spirtuality... a disciple. A summonable follower which is based on what level you're on and what virtue you followed most to get to that level of spirituality. Care would have to be taken to make sure there wouldn't be too many imbalance issues (no greater-dragon equvalent disciples, weaker disciples for easier virtues to gain like valor).
     
  17. Yea i for one would like to see more done with the undeveloped virtues :thumbsup:
     
  18. Xaphan

    Xaphan Guest

    As if guardzone isn't already enough of a disadvantage!
     
  19. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    If Knight gets only 2 mr,what would Follower and Seeker get?



    Haha thats why I haven't posted any ideas on that virtue. Nothing I came up with was any good at all.
     
  20. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    @ Xaphan, reds have been allowed to go into guardzones with an auto-whack for year. Unless you meant that you should be allowed to kill in guard zones??? Whoa. No thanks.

    As for Honesty, maybe a new quest engine where we have to wander between eight cities in Tram and Fel and get little pieces of the story. Then we have to answer all the questions honestly to gain. Reward could be a small decrease in vendor bought items.
     
  21. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I'd rather See humility work a bit different.

    Have Humility Gain by Donating to Various community Collections. Gold only mind you donating would be scaled upwards starting at 500k for the first bubble and going up after that. Say 500k then next bubble would cost 600k then up again to 800k ect ect.


    Effect? Well it won't decay, but it adds an extra use or slows decay of other virtues. Extra Self Rez for Sac, Less decay on bubbles for Honor, an Extra PS for Justice ect.
     
  22. Jahira-Tor

    Jahira-Tor Lore Master
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    I love the ideas. I think reds should get over it realy. I mean look at compassion, your at a huge advantage in pvp to be rezzed at near full health! Makes the chances of rez killing much lower and saves the person an extra two magor heals on you to get you back to full health. Reds ofcourse cannot do this.

    I think they would be at no more a disadvantage for the new virtue ideas. But even if they dont do exactly whats suggested here, i'd like to see something done about the spare virtues.
     
  23. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest


    How would you feel if the virtues were pushed back even further but the devs announced that anti virtues would be released for reds to use? Would you just get over it really? Be honest with yourself, if not with me.
     
  24. Harb

    Harb Guest

    A few things that seem important:

    1) Gain methodology should be unique for each virtue, and buying one as often mentioned as an option, at least to me runs contrary to the concept of being virtuous - it just "feels" mercenary. Care should be taken to avoid influence for gains from other sources. As in the other recent thread we both posted in regarding virtues, where someone recommended that the GM staff determine gains or that we use the new player method proposed long ago, I disagree. I'll repeat from before; "It seems to me that placing gains in the hands of anyone, on staff or in the game, isn't the right way to go. Although I can't be sure, I strongly suspect there's been more than 1 GM that I irked, and vice-versa, legitimate disagreements from one or both perspectives!" Further, reference the new player concept; "I could not possibly disagree more, it was a bad idea then, and a worse one now. Again, I'm concerned with someone else determining your success. It's easily manipulated. And as the other posters mention, there aren't a lot of true new players. Most importantly, for over 11 years, I've tried to help both new and struggling players - I don't want and would not accept a reward for it - doing so is contrary to the very concept of sincerely helping out." As for a method for gains, I've seen a lot of ideas, but unfortunately none come to mind that seemed an ideal solution. I don't have anything original sorry. So contrary to what should be a rule for us all, I can complain, but have no better idea :(

    2) Benefits ideally would be something that is not offered elsewhere in the game, but if an "addition" to something in game (LRC, LMC, Regens, etc) the benefit should not be included in current caps. The concept many mention of having one of them linked to others, and the idea of the more you have vested in the virtues the slower each decays both seem good ideas. I really don't think a benefit for any specific virtue should be slower decay, but if our dev team and us as a community can't come up with anything else, well....OK, but ideally slower decay would be a transparent by-product of the other virtues.

    3) Balance, if any benefit is significant, will be a major outcry, as a virtue benefit would work to a red character's disadvantage in PvP. I think a "survival" theme a good idea, added hit points, faster HPR (yeah I know, I said above make them distinct if possible), or my personal favorite, Reflect Player Damage (PRD Part II). I do believe, strongly, that a virtue which hinges on the others, should have a significant benefit, and in this unique case, think "imbalance" is actually the goal.

    4) Dev should avoid a rush to the finish line on virtues (like the decorative, but otherwise limited desirability in the highly anticipated but disappointing virtue armor set). Likewise, they should be embarrassed there's been no movement in years. Remember, we've only got three left, each has to count! Seriously though, this one should be a complete system already, it just doesn't need to be haphazardly implemented.

    5) As a set, virtue armor should have 8 potential added benefits, each deriving from the 8 virtues. Benefits have 3 levels, correpsonding to the levels in each virtue. I suspect that's way into the future though, although work could begin on this one now :)

    My 2 gps, best of luck with the thread!
     
  25. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Honestly I don't see much use for "virtues" which are mostly another no-sense threadmill which gives advantages by doing senseless repetitions, the game is already filled with them. It's always easy to exploit their gains, and usually they do not translate into real "virtues" into the game. The real way to implement the virtues is to make them hard to gain and easy to lose.

    A simple example, it's really ridiculous that my thief can become knight of justice. If he did something unlawful (stealing) even ONCE he should go straight from knight to follower (or even seeker). Virtues, implemented right, would be a great instrument to let the players police themselves, but the current imlementation is distasteful. Another reason why I don't pay for this game anymore.
     
  26. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I wouldn't mind that either. But I would call for them to finish the missing three virtues first and then look at an overhaul.
     
  27. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Whoo Hooo!

    Virtues were brought up at the town hall meeting! Yeaahhh....now we can get the three missing virtues added!

    Accept...I didn't understand the Devs answer about the virtues.

    Hhmmmm...