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An idea to add more value to BOD rewards

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Chaos, May 11, 2010.

  1. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    What if instead of crafting random magical items, the hammers instead crafted items with increased property cap?

    So for instance the lowest hammer would yeild property cap of 510, a Valorite hammer would yeild a weapon/armor with property cap of 600 or something similar.

    This would give a great deal of use for the various crafting tools and would make all hammers, sewing kits, saws, fletching kits, etc. useful.
     
  2. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    There is no total property point cap on items made with runic tools. The only "cap" is in the individual property intensity ranges, and the number of properties.

    The low level runics are extremely useful just as they are. However, it might not be a bad idea to add the potential for an extra property or two for high end run runics. For example 4 - 6 properties for a horned kit, and 5 - 7 for a barbed kit.

    There is no disputing that the high end runic kits aren't terribly useful these days unless you happen to be visited by the Angel of UO's RNG. Your chances of getting something that is actually useful from a high end runic tool are vanishingly small.

    Adding a property or two would also mean they would give more relic frags when items made with them are unravelled, which would make them more useful as well.
     
  3. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    If I remember correctly, Imbuing skill was to help level the playing field with runics.. and it appears to be a spectacular success!

    A side benefit is that runic dupers suffering,and may actually be out of business.

    Your suggestion appears to tilt the playing field again in the favor of runic dupers. I for one hope its not a suggestion taken up by the dev team.
     
  4. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Even with a chance for a couple of extra properties added to the highest end runics your chances of getting something that is actually useful would still be very small, just not as impossibly small as they are now. And it would mean that you would get more relic fragments out of items crafted by high end runics. Given how hard it is to get relic fragments now, I don't think that would be a bad thing either.

    And the key to solving the problem with dupers is in fixing the dupes, not in limiting the usefulness of runic tools. Mind you the real issue with runic tools right now isn't with dupes, it is with "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" and scripts.
     
  5. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Uhm...hello? reread please.

    It increases the property cap for IMBUING. Normally you have a 500 cap on imbuing and you could make it so that runic crated items would give higher cap when imbuing.

    It would revitalize runics and make it useful to actually making better items, instead of just base slayers (which you can get easily enough anyway) and random items.

    Runics would then no longer actually make magic items directly, but make normal items with increased caps on total property points.
     
  6. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Its not that hard to get relic frags.

    And what do you mean that the problem with runics is script programs? They don't have anything to do with runics usability. A valorite runic hammer doesn't become more or less useful because of a script program.
     
  7. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    With imbuing being added, it made doing BODs even less rewarding. IMHO they should go the route of eyecandy more with them, who doesn't love eye candy? Plus it will get people to do BODS again, dupers will be less likely because it's more pointless to them, and eyecandy never effects game play, so it's always a plus.
     
  8. gortman

    gortman Sage
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    If we really think BOD filling needs to have greater payback...

    Maybe the devs could sweeten the BOD rewards by randomly awarding imbuing ingredients in addition to the gold and items currently received. The more points your turned-in BOD is worth, the higher chance of receiving an ingredient. Or maybe the quality/quantity of the imbuing ingredient would be higher for higher point BODs. So filling an exceptional small iron BOD might give you a percent chance for one random essence, while filling an exceptional large valorite platemail BOD would give a chance to receive multiple relic frags.

    Even though BODs and imbuing aren't directly related, those rewards might make sense in today's UO environment.
     
  9. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok, I misread. My first reaction is that is a ridiculous idea, imbuing is powerful enough already, but it might not be as bad as all that seeing as it is hard to craft pieces with a runic tool that would form the base for a high end imbued piece.

    As usual, when the discussion touches anything to do with "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" and cheating in general, you become obtuse.

    The reasons why I say that scripting is the real problem when it comes to runics should be obvious, and probably are, but I'll explain it to you again - I'm sure it has been explained to you many times. And perhaps I should rephrase. Relic frags are hard to get for honest players who aren't willing to compromise their principles by scripting.

    Scripting is horrible for the game. It devalues the game play of honest gamers by flooding the market with resources at prices that honest gamers can't compete with, or can't compete with and get a reasonable return for their efforts.

    Scripting quests for runics, and scripting bods results in an item which is intended to be rare, being common - that is high end runics. It results in game play imbalances, and makes a process that is intended to be a challenge, being trivial for those who are willing to cheat.

    Scripting has the net effect of causing rampant inflation. At the same time as it results in honest players being unable to compete with the cheaters, it causes inflation by injecting far more gold and resources into the economy than the game was designed to handle. The result of this are prices so high that new and returning players are severely handicapped and can't hope to earn enough gold to compete on a level playing field with veterans, until they are able to handle high end pvm contexts, such as spawns.

    This results in a nasty catch 22 where new players can't afford the high end items necessary to compete until they can participate in high end contexts, which they can't do because they can't afford the high end items and resources necessary to build a high end capable character. The current situation with regard to scripting has made the cheaters exceedingly rich, while the honest players have no chance to compete on an even playing field with them.

    It is true that scripting does lower prices of resources and items in the context of a common mean, but it inflates the common mean to such an extent that the net effect is insanely high prices. Have you noticed how much the most desirable artifacts cost these days? 20 - 50 mil is common. Those ridiculous prices are the final result of an out of control scripting problem.

    A new player simply has no chance in the face of that kind of price inflation, let alone an honest new player that takes the TOS seriously. What do new players get when they enter the game? 1000gp?
     
  10. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They better add more value to the Bod collection especially the high end runic tools. The DEV have made my 9year old smith collection and my 8 year old tailor collection Useless!!! Thank you very much to make my and other peoples hard work nothing. People wonder why Uo losses subscribers. Cause they do things to make our hard work crap.
     
  11. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Exactly, it would add value to both and make the other crafting skills useful again.

    Yeah, its really hard for a legit player to set their crafting menu to craft 50 special recipe blacksmith items, then with gems in pack, imbue the crafted items (you can even imbue same attributes again and again with little effort) and then unravel?

    granted it would be faster by scripting, but not by so much.

    Scripting is horrible for the game. It devalues the game play of honest gamers by flooding the market with resources at prices that honest gamers can't compete with, or can't compete with and get a reasonable return for their efforts.

    LOL, high end runics aren't common, far from it. Valorite runics are 20 dollars+ each, more expensive than several high end artifacts, despite valorite hammers being basically worthless for the most part.

    You are aware of that this would be 10 times worse without the cheaters? With higher end items being even more rare and resources being even harder to obtain, makes new players basically powerless to get anywhere. Not saying that this justifies cheating, but that your argument here is flawed.

    People get rich and poor for various reasons, rich people aren't necessarily cheaters and poor people aren't necessarily not cheaters.

    Except the prices would be the same or even higher, as the supply would be even more outstripped by demand.

    Well, the new player experience needs serious revamping.
     
  12. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Do you have any idea how hard it is to get all the necessary ingredients honestly to make those 50 items? Obviously you don't...

    You are wrong, it would be nowhere near as bad if we didn't have the problem we have with scripting. An honest player would be able to go out, do some mining or lumberjacking for a few hours, and actually make some meaningful gold at it. I say "meaningful" because while it may actually be less gold than you can get now, it would have exponentially more buying power than it has now.

    I guess you didn't follow the logic when I explained how cheating inflates prices. It makes it a great deal easier for dishonest players to buy dishonestly gained resources and items from other dishonest players, but it makes it far harder for honest players to buy items from anyone, because the prices are so inflated.

    Getting gold isn't that much easier for an honest player than it would be if scripting had never existed, but for a dishonest player who is willing to cheat, it is exponentially easier, and their buying power inflates the prices of everything across the board. They may be able to afford more, but the net effect is that the "real" price of items for honest players, the amount of time it takes to earn the gold honestly to buy a given item, is actually higher than it would be if the cheating monster had never been born in the first place.

    I will grant you one thing. If you are willing to buy resources and items with real $$, then cheating has made the price of everything cheaper. But in game play terms everything is far more expensive than it would have been if UO had never had a scripting problem.
     
  13. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Yes I do, but there's your reason for going mining that you sought after, heh.

    We would have less gold, but also less items = higher prices.

    Honestly, my gf started up again not long ago and hell she already has artifacts, an large house, tons of decos, imbued sets, etc. Its not impossible for legit people to buy things in this game.

    Sure ok, they won't have the super suits, but honestly, when they have to wait 4 YEARS to get a measily 20 skill point cap increase, they can wait a bit for the uber suits.

    And you say that mining isn't worth it, make up your mind, either it inflates the prices or it doesn't...if ingot prices are inflated, then people get good money for it.
     
  14. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    someone wants there scripted hammers to be worthy again LOL

     
  15. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And perhaps you could try reading my posts before you respond to them. But that doesn't appear to be your strength.

    Cheating inflates prices overall but lowers them relative to the mean value of items in the game. So honest players are screwed both ways. The gold that they do have doesn't go as far, and they don't get as much gold for items they sell relative to the mean value of items in the economy.

    I realize this is a complex concept that might require understanding at least grade 7 math. It both inflates prices, and destroys the value of honest player's efforts. To put it another way, it inflates prices, and at the same time lowers the purchasing power of the time they spend playing the game legitimately.
     
  16. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    All I have are some lower level hammers from long ago and they're actually the most valuable ones these days.
     
  17. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    You know, that is just massive irony considering you started out not reading my initial post properly, lol.

    This is not really a debate for this thread, but again, honest players aren't screwed, they just can't make money off everything in the game, but thats how it is for everyone.
     
  18. Nexus

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    No no no, that isn't how the economy in a game.

    Let me put it this way... If say there were only 100 million gold on your shard, that gold gets continually recycled, Vendor Fees, NPC purchaces, Looted by Monsters etc. to create monster loot. In addition it gets continually circulated by players among themselves, through trades and purchases. There is only 100million how much of that do you reasonably expect any one player to be able to maintain control of? How much buying power will 100,000 gold have when it actually makes up 1/1000th of the shard over all economy, what about 1 mil being 1/100th? See that's kind of how it worked back in the day before insurance and LRC. There were steady continual sinks that pulled gold out, it didn't accumulate as fast. Regs was probably one of the biggest sinks for example.

    What happens is people simply cannot charge as much for items because there simply isn't as much gold in circulation so prices have to drop accordingly. It's not that the items aren't worth as much, it's that gold becomes worth more the scarcer it is.

    Get rid of the scripts and gold will start spreading out more evenly among the players. It's not that there would really be less gold, but people would have less of it overall. Then prices would drop because the same reasoning applies, you can't demand a price you can't possibly get. Sure at first things would bounce but it would eventually even out most likely yielding a higher buying power for gold and lower overall prices.
     
  19. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Nexus, you defend legitimate playing well.

    And I agree with you as much as most, in regards to: cheating is bad :)
     
  20. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Like other honest player I play UO to relax instead of TV or a crossword. Two nights ago got my 3rd of 7 20x val Plate BODs. At the rate I do BODs ........ thats 1 val hammer BOD per 15k+ BODs received.

    Imbuing allows players to cap out all they need in a suit. Having a method to go higher then the current item cap is as good as giving everyone 1020 skill point cap.

    Your ideal would work if there wasn't plp out there with an inactive junk account with 5 back packs / 5 bank boxes / 5 beetles full of just val hammers.

    Yes imbuing busted the hack's balls over the way they get high end runics. But then they reward 1000s scripted mined gems with loads of relics from a lowly bronze hammer.

    Many things released into the game are really not thought out. And all this new blood adds to the fire. Before we had additions by people that don't play the game enough. Now we still have the same and they don't know how the game has been played. Example the frostwood. Years of script mining and they toss new wood out there for same abuse. Then the few frostwood trees that had been out there and their one great turn in location ........ never yielded busting any hack retreads by observing the trees or the museum.

    Raising the speed limit by 10MPH sounds cool. Why not think and just leave 10 minutes earlier per hour your going to drive. Some people shouldn't even be behind the wheel let alone go faster.
     
  21. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    First of all, you can't maximize all mods with imbuing, the cap prevents that.

    So do you like that your potential Valorite hammer is practically worthless?

    And there's no one out there with accounts filled with Valorite hammers, not even the biggest sellers.

    So peoples answer yet again to cheating, is to mess up legit players even more...typical.
     
  22. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    True they have filled BODs for the val hammer I just like the visual of the other.

    But my last paragraph still applies. We don't need an easier easy button.

    Your ideal is to take a good thing and make it better. I think 11 pet slots would be a nice addition also. Just thinking about players ability to cross shard their stuff and not that I'd like to run a pack of 10 frenzy and ride an 11th.

    500 cap is enough
     
  23. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    What he said.
     
  24. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    The fact that dupers might be agiain prospering is a downfall, but another thing you have to examine, is if you add a more properties, ie 5-7 for a barbed etc etc, then the ability to imbue the item is lowered as the property caps and item intensities are already close to or at there max. Making anything you do make virtually only good for the unravel bin-unless the UO gods bless you with that uber piece of armor or weapon that needs no imbuing whatsoever to be godly, which would still be as rare if this update was done as it is now.

    Crafting was not meant to be something that made you rich overnight. My crafter is a loner, he has his friends sure, but he slaves over hot anvils, pricks his fingers over needles and threads, and recently learned the art of using the soulforge. This is how it is supposed to be, slaving away all day for hopes that i might get one right. As nice as it would be to get that awesome item to give to my dexxer or to sell and never have to worry about gold again, the game would be ruined even more. I would be against this for sure!

    If there was any changes to the bod reward system, it would have to be maybe an increased chance of getting a barbed or val runic, not a runic with better properties.
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Things will get duped as long as there is programming errors. Who knows next dupe will be for relic fragments and every essence in the game. Doesn't mean we should let previous systems long time systems die. The prices and use of the bod rewards are droped not because of dupe but because of imbuing. Imbuing is endless system placed in game unlike a dupe that goes away as soon as the dev fix it imbuing is stuck here down the road. Eventually all other crafting especially bods will die out. Something needs to be added to make random mods much more superior than fix mods. As it only takes 1 try to get your perfect suit while it takes hundreads of thousands of trys with runic tools to get the same suit.
     
  26. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I personally would like to see a gump added for crafting, perhaps for Arms Lore, that would let you do one of the following:

    1. Increased chance of a specific property, based on your arms lore bonus (you'd set separate toggles for weapons and armor). The current "bonus to Exceptional random armor points" and "bonus to exceptional DI" would remain as the default, if nothing chosen.

    So, for example, you could choose "Mana Regeneration" for the "Armor" setting, and you would get a 10% additional chance per 20 points of Arms Lore that it would be the first property applied from the runic. Using this for a specific resist, on an armor, would allow a crafter to make some of his items with the entire arms lore bonus put into a specific resist (while the other 15 or 6 bonus resists would remain random). Items that do not have the special effect trigger, do NOT get the default.

    2. Option two would be to choose a non-toggle property (toggle properties are ones that, in normal items, are either there or not there, such as UBWS, SC -1, Mage Armor, FC 1, etc.). That property, if rolled randomly during the item creation, would get +10% intensity added, per 20 Arms Lore, to the rolled intensity level. So, if you choose Mana Regeneration, there would be a chance that the item would have Mana Regen 3 (And the resultant higher intensity for imbuing), at the cost of not having the Arms Lore resist bonus.

    3. Or, if an item was made with a normal tool, there would be a 10% per 20 points of Arms Lore that an exceptional item crafted with a standard tool would have it as a bonus property, at the intensity of the chance (so, for example, you could only add Mana Regeneration 1 to an item, this way, as you'd not be able to go over 50% intensity).

    This would make runic crafting in general, and crafting normal and runic items to further imbue, more useful and less costly.



    Personally, I'd like to see all armors get the "automatic mage armor" as a free property, when crafted exceptional. It would get rid of all the excessive leather use by those cramming in as many properties as possible, on a runic suit (leather would still be the choice if most imbuers, though).
     
  27. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Still this is all about the improving of the BOD system. Why not some new unique rewards that are deco. The anvil still sells well so why not some new artwork deeds items for old crafter deco.

    With improving armor and weapons. Why not get a deed that is one the many properties on items that is 100%. Look at what you need to get just to put dragon or spider slayer on a weapon. Being a big fan of the tamer luck suit why not a deed that puts 120 luck on an item before you try an enhance.
    What imbalance would it be to have new mage armor or UBWS deed that doesn't count to mod points. With all the fun of enhancing the mod deeds could have a break factor like enhancing. Would mean still have to juggle when to enhance and imbue.

    What is sad is with 100 arms lore and a barbed runic you make leather armor that starts with as low as 7 durability. Why not a mod deed that puts a piece at 300 durability and go from there imbuing what points are left.

    How about a reward that is a Lunk Head Minion trapped in an crystal. Critter works like a horde minion / anvil. Bonds at crystal release and wont transfer.

    We are all waiting still for the tink BOD system. Start off with the needed runics and maybe even the reaper hatchet that spawns rare wood treefolk. Not like everyone is not already milking a few stumps for the highher woods already. Another reward could be the glass blowpipe runic