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An interesting moral question: Speedhacking

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Asmodai, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Asmodai

    Asmodai Guest

    We all know the horror of speedhacking in pvp. If someone uses it, it spreads like wildfire through the guild. It give's an unfair speed advantage, and creates lag for the people around them.

    So, given the tendency for entire guilds to use this, and the lack of ability from the devs to curb it's use, what about those people, assuming those people exist, that think "Fk it, i've had enough of this" and decide 'if i can't beat them, i'll join them'. Is speedhacking wrong if someone uses it to level the playing field against others that abuse it?

    If there was a potential speedhacking ban, then what would distinguish those that use it as defense against the unfair advantage of other guilds, and those that have been longtime cheaters? Is speedhacking always wrong, and is it better to die and stay on the metaphorical moral high horse? Or is it understandable that this pattern may have occured given the lack of punishment dished out in these circumstances?
     
  2. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Yes.

    Nothing, as it should be.

    You either cheat, or you don't. It's not a "high horse" issue, sorry. Time was, I loved PvP. No more, as you have well defined the dilemma in your post. And yes, abandoning something exciting and enjoyable isn't ever desirable, but sometimes necessary.
     
  3. I have the fix for speedhacking.

    Build it into the client.


    That way, we all go faster, and no one has an advantage.

    Next, make all mobs move at faster speeds to compensate.

    Problem solved.
     
  4. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Pretty much agree with everything Harb said. Summarized quite well. Kind of funny how the issue has for the longest time been ignored.
     
  5. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    No offence to UO but WOW has a cach to download 3rd party addons to make the game a lil easier thus.. if one can use it they make it posssible for EVERYONE to use it (big gain on there part) as it knocks out cheets as everyone can use that cheet BAAAAAAAM problem solved for them anyways.

    Problem with UO is they HATE anything thats not ment to be were as WOW learned from US and said ok you can use 3rd part addons to make you game play more enjouyable as long as its there for everyone.

    Simple UO needs to let every 3rd part program be legal like wow

    Only diff is the concentrate on hax and dupes thats why they made items "solebound" so you cant cheet to farm it SIMPLE NO?

    Farers are gone but 3rd party programs that make the game "easier/more fun" are legal
     
  6. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Barter Town

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    This.

    I quit pvp 3 1/2 years ago.

    :spider:
     
  7. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" - Yoda
     
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They did, KR. Unfortunetly most pvp'rs don't use KR and most of those are in uohall forums so there is the dilema.
     
  9. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I have no problems with using game mechanics to their fullest with the best template and armor and such, but actually breaking the rules that we all agreed to is cheating. The number or percentage of cheaters doesn't change the rules or what is cheating.

    While there are times in RL where I can see breaking rules to be justified (the old steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family dilema), breaking rules in a game is sort of lame. I'm sure some will disagree with me and say winning is winning, even if the other guy is tied down, blindfolded, and not breathing, but I'm still right.
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This isn't baseball in the 80s, where players felt they had to use steroids to compete with other players who were, in order to make a living doing what they were best at.

    That is a genuine moral dilemma. And a health one to boot.

    This, though, is cheating at a game.

    I am increasingly wondering, though, if speed-hacking's prevalence hasn't been exaggerated.

    I've been accused of speed-hacking. I don't speed-hack. And in fact I'm comparatively slow. When someone as slow as me is accused of speed-hacking, you have a problem that's become an excuse, in addition to being a problem.

    However, I'm positive speed-hacking does happen on occasion. And no....The fact that others do it doesn't justify, I would argue, someone else doing it. The consequences of UO, for most people, do not or at least should not go beyond UO itself. To break the rules of a game in order to achieve success that's measured only within that game, with no external consequences, seems very paradoxical to me.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    There are external consequences... you win the battle, conquer the powerscrolls, stat scrolls... and get to sell them for a few millions (real $)... cheat for the win!
     
  12. rwek

    rwek Guest

    Yeah, I also have to ask. The people who say, no way i dont cheat etc.


    How are you points in the faction standings? Do you pvp on a regular (most of your play time) basis?


    I've found over time eventually most of the people in the guilds I join speedhack. It's old news. I've made several complaining posts, but its always similar answers.


    I do like to keep a nice speedhack rant on the front page though. It's an issue that should take priority over stuff like candy baskets with hearts.
     
  13. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    In fairness, I said "for most people" there were no external consequences. And, speaking for myself only, it's hard to have sympathy for people who turn UO into a profit-making business.

    Somehow I think that if those people speed-hack, and the game stopped it totally, they'd find another way, at any rate.

    But yeah, assuming you're out there to get power scrolls for use by yourself or your guild or to sell for in-game money.....Then that's what I mean by no external consequences.

    -Galen's player
     
  14. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    speedhacking and cheating is lame in general. All EA have todo to stop it is to ban the top 5 speeders/hackers on every shard, that will give the rest of the cheaters a clear signal to lay off the cheating, or face the consequences.
     
  15. Gandie

    Gandie Guest

    No, you should never start cheating yourself.

    Myself... i stopped playing like 1 month ago. Cheating are just too much on the EU server atm (pvp wise)

    I'll be back in UO when they fix it, if i don't find another good game before it.
     
  16. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I haven't been in Factions since team killers took over TB some time ago. I wasn't going to be running around Felucca worried I'd run into my own Faction-mates, you know? That just feels wrong.

    No. I gave up on PvP some months ago....I got tired of the whining about how I speed hack (which I don't) and how I have 4/6 casting (which not only is there nothing wrong with, but I don't have!).

    I have to wonder if speed-hacking is one of those things that it's sometimes harder to catch than we think it is, like scripting....Sure there are some obvious scripters, but sometimes a dedicated "professional" player who is not scripting is nearly indistinguishable from a scripter.

    In this case....If I can be accused of speed-hacking, as comparatively slow as I am, who CANNOT be accused? Does a GM who gets a page about speed-hacking have much incentive to check it out? Or is he just going to say "Oh screw it, it's probably just someone paging on Galen again?"

    -Galen's player
     
  17. Cho hag

    Cho hag Guest

    gm's simply don't give a crap...

    I forwarded some pictures to the gm's that some players that was using client altering programs had posted on a forum and lo and behold nothing what so ever happens to thise players...

    even with unquestionable evidence they won't do anything...

    so in reality cheating is legal in uo as the gm's/devs don't give a damn about it...in theory it's illegal though...so us that stick to the theoritical rules gets shafted coz they ain't inforced in anyway...


    ohh well 25th feb is fast aproching then hopefully won't have to worry about gm's and devs that don't care about what happens in there game
     
  18. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Galen... I wasnt trying to get in an argument with you about the "outside" of UO.

    Just making a point...

    Most GMS, EMMIES and MOST FEL big GUILDS have their selling websites... where you can see the degradation of UO.

    Just that.
     
  19. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    You've got a false assumption in your original post: "given the tendency for entire guilds to use this".

    I'd say for the smaller "l33t" PvP guilds this may be true. But for any guild with more than 15-20 active players, I doubt this is true.

    Personally, even with the wave of cheating and speedhacking in PvP that is going on now(in addition to the faction item BS), I'm one of the last honest players. I don't speedhack nor use cheats when I PvP... nor am I in Factions/using those over powered easy to get items.:spider:

    I'll continue to state that the only effective way for EA to curb speedhacking is to put a reasonable cap on the server. Right now, they have an unreasonable one(if any) and are assuming that they are getting clean data from the client. Both are big time no-no's in client-server programming... especially when the company has NO control over the client.
     
  20. Mikeee

    Mikeee Guest

    Well here is my thing its definitely blatently at use by some PvP guilds. Typically the bigger/better ones ALL use it. It's kind of like steroids in MLB, when you want to be the best you had to use it.

    I personally tried it once and realized it was messing with my UOA macros that I had time delays on so I said I'm not bothering with this. I didn't notice any difference on my end, it just seemed like I was 'skipping' more like I would overshoot running into a narrow passway, etc.

    A select few people in my guild do use it as a means to compete with the other people but even they run into people who FLY past them. Its been about 3 years since I tried it for about 5 minutes and I get accused of it all the time by people. Mostly get accused because the people accusing me are the ones that move super fast. You just have to understand it to take advantage of these people. It makes them skip a bit so if you are able to run a bit and then make a sharp corner you will see them run 5-6 tiles past where you turned because they are skipping on their screen. Just watch out because the really good ones know this and so they keep running in front of you blocking you in.

    Also try and fight a speedhacker near a house, they will OFTEN over shoot the steps for the house because they DONT know where to turn when their client is moving that fast lol. Just my 2 cents on that. :p

    I do believe their SHOULD be a speed hardcap to keep things a bit more even though.

    Also I do mostly only PvP. My PvPer is in factions on Catskills and has 180+ points. I usually try and keep him under 50 by xfering to others who needs points but no one really has needed any in guild so I'm just been keeping them. I probably die once for every 3-4 hours of PvPing. I'm not that good by any means I just don't die that often lol.
     
  21. It's gotten to the point in UO that if you sit around and worry about what everyone else is doing, you will end up becoming disgusted with the game and quitting.

    Many players cheat. Many players have GMs/EMs/etc. that favor them and allow them to do so with no consequences.

    I hate duping and scripting and speed hacking, but these are reality of UO these days.

    I am not excusing these people. I would love to see EA find a way to deal with them, but I am not holding my breath.

    I just play the game, get what I can out of it, and try not to worry too much about what this person or that person does. I don't have to see everyone banned, nerfed, etc. to enjoy this game...I just keep doing my thing.