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And why was my template nerfed?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Roskal, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Roskal

    Roskal Visitor
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    Yea - I play a stealth archer. I know - I'm hated by most pvpers - unless you are in the same guild/alliance as me. I see now that my template has been nerfed with the latest VvV patches. While in hiding/stealth mode, I no longer "count" as being in the town. So VvV had a problem with players hiding in a corner and gaining silver points? My guild was just using a little detect hidden/reveal/tracking to kill them off. No big deal. Now that silver point gain has been lowered, the benefit to just hiding a player in the corner is pretty much gone. Why then has my template been singled out and nerfed as far as VvV point gain is concerned? Is this the best option you developers could come up with - to nerfer the stealthers? This is just as valid a template as the dexer or mages. I'm sure the pvpers that don't know how to deal with a stealth archer will cheer and make a nice rude comment here.
     
  2. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    OMG!!! How did you come up with such a magnificent find? It seems that most of the players who complained about stealthers could never understand this simple strategy. Cheers to you and your guild...la
     
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  3. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Oh, and FYI, I don't think they targeted stealther per se, but they were looking more to nerf stealthy little thieves. :( ...la
     
  4. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    The only good stealth archer template has spirit speak on it, such good fun to be had with that skill....
     
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  5. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    At a rough guess I would think the for the same reason as making he new skulls obtainable without GM begging. Not enough knowledge of the game and its mechanics by those implementing the changes.
     
  6. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    i think the main people complaining were the smaller shards complaining about people hiding for points.

    larger shards hunted them out.
     
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  7. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    All the more reason to consolidate the little shards.
     
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  8. Glenny glenn

    Glenny glenn Adventurer

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    Which has been stated wont happen because house spots mainly. Im sure as hell not moving my castle for someone to take my spot
     
  9. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    That's such B*LLSH*T. A stealth archer..or any stealth template is a viable template to play. After this nerf to yet VvV, the entire DEV team can go stick VvV where the sun don't shine. Way to alienate player template types.
     
  10. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    It has been stated that it won't happen because of lack of imagination and determination. It is well within their capability to make instanced housing.
     
  11. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    You are off your head if you think anyone who has played UO for more than 6 days wants "instanced housing". If they went to "instanced housing" there would be no need for me to keep my accounts open any longer, its that simple.
     
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  12. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    You lack imagination.
     
  13. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    The main issue I see with this change is that if I am correct; a battle doesn't occur unless at least two opposing players are logged in. Well if one of those players chooses to sit in their house and craft skirts instead of defending a city, why is a thief who answers the call is rewarded with nothing?

    I understand the that the issue with hidden loiterers was getting out of hand on a couple shards. But talk about swatting the fly with a sledgehammer.

    Once again game mechanics are changed instead of encouraging players to use the tools they already have to remedy a problem.

    Probably gonna stick Detect Hidden on a soulstone until thieves are no longer punished for simply participating.
     
  14. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Then please enlighten us, would you?

    The Devs have said time and again that it's not going to happen. Every team knows the game would lose more players than gains, and this will be done for what, a relative few to find more PvP opponents? There's simply too much displacement involved, too much uprooting of people who like their spots (and especially player towns), too many items to transfer. And what of players with full character lists on both shards chosen?
     
  15. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Some people wanted to farm points for shard bound items that won't sell in a week, who cares....this is a poor change that will only help to slow VvV down. Who can recall what happened to factions when the great point change happened.
     
  16. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    No your wrong, UO would lack my funds. It has nothing to do with my imagination.
     
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  17. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    You're...la
     
  18. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    That is some rocket science right there!

    Actually, the no-hiding thing is okay since occupation points are gone. If you hide, the battle ends earlier and you have less time to steal sigils. If you don't hide, you're an easier target. It actually is a reasonable compromise... I hope it stays that way.
     
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  19. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    Enlighten the closed mind? As a quoter of Ayn Rand you would know that she would consider the closed mind to be a passive mind. As such, I amend my first sentence: enlighten the passive mind? OK: why not look for the reasons this is possible rather than accepting the dev team's dogma on the issue?
     
  20. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Pleased to provide that service...la
     
  21. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    While I wouldnt consider Napa a dead shard i would believe that it would be considered a smaller shard and therefore be considered for consolidation... your ok with that? I know i wouldnt be.
     
  22. Advisor Bacchus

    Advisor Bacchus Visitor

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    I am confused.
    How was the template completely nerfed?
    You still have your Archery skill set to pvp with in the towns and you can still use stealth and hiding as the survival skills they were meant to be.
    Whats the issue?
     
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  23. Nexus

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    Stealth Archers don't use Stealth and Hiding strictly as a survival skill. Stealth Archers use hiding and Stealth to gain the element of surprise, typically to dismount an opponent transforming them to an offensive skill set. His complaint is more directed, I believe, at his use of the skills for stalking purposes now having an negative effect on his ability to gain silver during VvV events.
     
  24. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    This thread lost it's way. I did some cleaning.

    Removed the merge posts as they were off-topic to this thread.
     
  25. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You forgot this one, Zuckuss, unless you:1) Are going to let me reply, or 2) Want to let him have the last word and will delete my reply here also.

    There's no "dogma." As someone who understands databases, I have time and time again, in this thread and others, delineated the obstacles to shard merging. Nobody has to listen to a thing the Devs say to understand it's already very slow for one character and four pack animals, never mind a house and thousands of items. I gave you a long and technical explanation this last time, which Zuckuss deleted and I hope you saw. Perhaps you'll realize there's a lot more at stake than you "imagine."

    As I said, it is hardly "closed" or "passive" for me to demand an explanation from you. You're talking about far too massive a technical undertaking that will take too much development time, when they have other things to do. You're talking about the splitting of existing player cities. You want to say that others don't have imagination? Then do enlighten us. We're listening. But as it stands, even you admit that players will be driven away, and EA will lose far more than they could recoup in not having to keep up a few quiet shards.

    So you can cut it out with accusing me of being of a "closed" or "passive" mind.
     
  26. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Yes.

    Yes.

    If you are not spending your time in the corner you will earn as much silver as anyone else. Actually if you are in a town alone you will make much more on your template then someone without hiding and stealthing. I am not going to explain how or why but if someone wanted to make silver, hiding and stealth would be nice skills to invest.

    I am pro thief as well as non direct pvp templates like the Stealth archer but also in favor of this change... This doesn't keep you from stopping others from occupying. It just takes more effort on a Stealthers.

    You don't have to be hidden at all times. You can be visible and if someone approaches go into hiding, etc then move to another area pop out and then stop progression again.. Esp in huge cities like Trinsic, Yew and Brit. and that's just if you are not alone, otherwise you can be hidden the entire time and benefit from the visible occupation of your friends and teammates.

    Occupation should be a visible process. If you read about the occupation of Paris in WWII, the nazi's were not holding the city by hiding, the city was actively taken and it was the resistance that was in hiding. It doesn't make sense to have an occuping force in town and at teh same time have no one visibly there.

    If you are working in a group then you will earn silver, if you are afk in the corner in a group you will earn less, afk alone you will not make anything.

    The highest amount of silver goes to people actively engaged in taking sigils (invested the most skill) or taking altars involving the highest risk. Other activities are rewarded less even being on the losing side and doing nothing will earn you silver.

    I work with a highly skilled group of thieves and they were completely bored out of their mind and hardly participating because there was no challenge to it or it had to be 10 v 1 for it to be worth the effort. I hope this change inspires them to play a little more.

    -Lore's Player
     
    #26 Lore Denin (GL), Oct 24, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
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  27. Advisor Bacchus

    Advisor Bacchus Visitor

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    I got you on the silver part.
    I understand the use of stealth/hiding for pvp and from my experience there are almost no stealth archers that use their skills to dismount people 1 vs 1 because the points wasted on stealth & hiding leave little room for the other skills needed to effectively fight 1 vs 1. Especially when on foot after dismounting.
    I will take my chances all day on foot 1 vs 1 against a stealth archer.

    No, I believe the devs are on the right track as unfortunately the huge majority of stealth archers are only popping out to dismount and attack in total gank situations and that should not be rewarded too greatly imo.
    The game does not need to aid any more in the mechanics of ganking as it is has swung too far in that direction over the past years.

    Stealth archers have always had a place in UO and they are still a very viable template today. They just may not be no risk silver factories going forward and that may not be a bad thing imo.
     
  28. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    Zuckuss deleted my reply and yours which I did not see. Send it to PM if you still have it. Also, our posts were germane to the topic of the template nerf. The nerf is the result of low populated servers IMHO.
     
    #28 RockoNV, Oct 24, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  29. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Think of VvV as capture the flag topped with a little honorable combat. Small window of time for a bunch of intense fighting.

    VvV battle zones should have hiding/stealthing. Just once hidden if your in that certain size area still after short time later then your exposed by the battle zone. As an all UO world game code this could work with those unsavory type play by AFK players.

    Packs of stealth archers skulking around for quick kills. Wweeeeeeeeeeee that sound like everlasting fun.
     
  30. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Shard consolidation is not "germane." It has time again been shot down. As with anything, economics asks, "At what cost?" It certainly would be technically possible to dump two or more shards on a single one. It would be possible to dump everyone on Atlantic. But what are you going to do about player houses?

    You say others lack "imagination." You directly say my mind is "passive" and "closed." Yet you are not going to "enlighten" us on how you think it can be done, except to talk about "volunteers" that will be few and far between.
     
  31. Nexus

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    I'm going to ask nicely, please keep it on topic not Shard consolidation, housing, or anything other than the effect VvV changes may or may not be having on Stealth Archers. I really don't want have to get another padlock, do you realize how fast the cost of them adds up?
     
  32. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    If you want to discuss shard mergers, please discuss it via pm or open another thread regarding that topic. Lets not change this discussion into another one.