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Another insurance proposal

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Doubleplay, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    Dismiss me as stupid or whatever, but does the following have any merit?

    Leave insurance just the way it is re. cost and recovery of items. However every time you die and insurance pays off, you lose some percent, say 5% of your resists and possibly 5% of your weapon's abilities. This is a stackable loss. The second time you are killed, the percentage would be 10 and so on.

    Then in a central location, perhaps in Brittan there would be a special shop where you can go at any time to recoup all the total percentage loss you are carrying with a lump sum payment. This would attach a penalty to using insurance that is progressive, finally requiring the benefactor to leave the scene of battle to re-up.
     
  2. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    what I want to know is why anyone has an issue with the current ruleset. it seems greed has brought most of these threads out of the woodwork...even moreso since the dupes. people want what everyone else has but are unwilling to put thier time into earning it. (i understand this isnt your thoughts however I wish you would look more closely at the group of individuals posting these insurance concerns) 100% of them are either thieves or else seige players whom dabble on prodo shards.
     
  3. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Do you not read the threads you have been complaining about? Most of them explain their reasons...la
     
  4. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    lets see...

    reasons given:

    risk vs. reward as per my experience on seige
    i came back to this game to find my char is worthless
    thieves arent able to make money
    there is nothing to steal beyond powerscrolls and rares
    there is nothing to steal
    there is nothing to steal besides bandies, pots, and sigils
    there is nothing to steal beyond uninsured items'
    i came back to find that all I could steal were artifacts
    i cant effectively play my remplate like I can on seige
    I cant effective make others mad in fel anymore
    theives cant have nice stuff (yes...its there...go look!)

    Do I really need to go on? Perhaps you should go peruse some of these for yourself instead of jsut replying just to reply. If you havent figured it out by now I tend to respond harshly only to ******** threads or *special people*. I did have a tendency to link you to the former, but after this morning I tend to look at you as the latter.
     
  5. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Why respond to anyone "harshly"?...la
     
  6. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    perhaps harsh is not the word...perhaps stern is more appropriate. if a child you know asks 50 times for the same thing what do you say to that child on the 50th time? do you give in and let them have what they want or do you with a bit of frustration tell them no? that seems to be my state on this subject, and the moderators inability to control previously locked content.

    i will state i think its pretty dang petty of you to nitpick only areas you wish to respond to...instead of the post as a whole. you implied a question, I answered...you use subterfuge to try and ignore the idea behind said post...
    good job.
     
  7. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    He's 'special'
     
  8. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    So says the guy who thinks *nuh-uh* is an active form of logical debate.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I just want insurance changed in Fel, so Tram would be untouched if item loss is a huge issue for players. I think it's better having contrasting lands rather than 2 bland ones.

    Reasons... I don't have an interest in keeping up with players without effort, the last thing I want is something handed to me on a plate, otherwise I'd play in Tram. I'm hoping to see a need to go hunt for items again, a reason for actually picking something up off a monster rather than discarding it. A real penalty if I lose a fight, so the outcome matters and one where my opponent truly has something to lose so I might attack, rather than ignore him or run. PvP isn't worth participating in as far as I'm concerned, and I once PvPd daily and adored it.

    The reasons for wanting change spread from the crafter and merchant to the PvPer and yes, thieves too. But I'm not talking as a thief here, mine is a RP thief first and foremost, who tends to tell folks to bank thinks rather than steal them. I don't grief and don't support that playstyle.

    PvP nowadays is too much about gps. The gold spent on equipment, then insurance, the gold you get from kills, or selling powerscrolls after a champ, and none of it brings any excitement to the game at all. I suppose it's great if you love gold, but I'm only concerned that I have enough to restock supplies with.

    Nowadays, you know that if you kill someone they can dart back to their body and re-equip and come straight back to a fight, now we even have red healers all over because heaven forbid anyone has to look for a res lol. Reds can rampage free of stat loss, enter towns and pretty much do everything they were once forbidden from. It's too easy, too sanitised and heck if you want that level of safe PvP what's wrong with a huge war list played out in Tram? Why does it have to infest Fel?

    When these discussions started I honestly thought Fel players were tougher than they turned out to be. I didn't think everyone hung onto insured items like wee comfort blankets too scared to look beyond that system for something more interesting. I'm not sure how many hardy Feluccans still play UO, but a lot fewer than I expected lol.

    Wenchy
     
  10. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Again you propagate this premise. It's false. Nowhere has it been stated by Stratics staff, that discussions on insurance can no longer be started...la
     
  11. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    no...it has been stated that locked threads are not to be restarted regardless of why they were locked. if it was discussion that provided them with REASON to be locked then logic would dictate not to reopen them no?
    (rhetorical)
     
  12. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    To the OP: I think you have missed the reasons why people want the change. They don't want to make things more annoying, or even necessarily harder, they want the risk back, and to even the playing field, and yes, some want the rebirth of a playstyle.

    Whole templates are now based completely on items, and people are crying left and right that they be nerfed. If you could not rely completely on items to make a template, then they would not need nerfed, now would they? The few that kept up those templates would have to be DAMN good at what they do, in which case, it would definitely be a badge of honor to have such a template.
     
  13. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    First of all, for a long time Reds were allowed in towns, it was Dread Lords that were not.

    Second, I don't disagree with risk vs reward, but it's bad enough that we have had to adapt to all the changes that have happened in this game and to have spent hundreds of millions of gold on our uber suits to have them potentially lost.

    Now if they were to completly make Fel SKILL based to where no item is better than GM made armor and weapons, then I would deal with it. Even though as I said, I stand to lose over 500+ Mill gold that has been sunk into my suits.

    It's easy for those of you who don't have that type of investment to say remove insurance.

    So lets look at it this way: Lets make it to where if when you die in Fel you lose your house and all its contents (in Tram or Fel). How about that for risk vs reward!!

    ANd Rico, thieves are jsut as bad as stealth archers.. you are people who cant truly PvP so you have to rely on hiding and waiting for someone low on health to run by for the kill shot, or in your case to steal and then run away.

    It may be fun for you, but it isn't fun for anyone else. Now if they made it to where you couldnt recall or hide or smoke bomb or run away in any kind of form like wolf form and you could only be on foot when you ran away then "maybe" I would accept it.

    I've been playing since almost day one and thieves were always the most uselss griefing templates in the game, with nothing to lose.

    So if you want thieves back, I say that if you steal and we catch you and you die, you lose your house and all its contents and all the contents in your bank. HOW IS THAT FOR RISRK VS REWARD!!
     
  14. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I'd love to read this post. Care to provide a link to it?

    Thanks in advance...la
     
  15. Why don't you just ask Garaba. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to tell you that subjects of locked threads are not to be reopened once a thread on it has been locked. He's told everyone here that many times over the years.
     
  16. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    You do realize that PvP is an acronym for Player versus Player? I (player one) steal items from others (player two). Thus, as a thief who steals from other players...all I do is PvP...la
     
  17. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Because, I asked RC. He seems very confident in his cause. I'm just asking for a little backup...la
     
  18. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Player vs Player usualy requires both players involvment, not the passive involvement of the person who was stolen from.

    And I expected that response from you, instead of some actual discussion on it.

    I proposed some ways of bringing theives back, albeit at a very risky part to where if you steal and then die you lose your house and bank contents. But I don't see you responding to that.

    Remember you said you wanted some more risk vs reward. What is the risk that thieves take under your changes? other than death?

    How about a mature discussion on the subject instead of a silly response?
    la la
     
  19. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Yeah Statloss... I would love to see it for 5 mins on normal PVP and 10 Mins on Factions...

    Or... 3 mins on normal and 5 mins on factions.. (for those that think 5/10 is to much... 3/5 might be more realistic ...

    I agree.
     
  20. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    A mature discussion with you proposing loss of all items from house and bank if I, a thief is caught stealing? Really? If you would like to come up with something that is actually discussable...please do feel free to add that to the conversation...la
     
  21. Nexus

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    That is a Mature response, Rico gave. If you as a Red in Fel find a miner do you walk up have a conversation on if he'd like to be attacked or not?
     
  22. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    5-10 min stat loss would certainly make things more interesting and introduce more risk!

    Factions already has stat loss. It is 20 mins and it is just fine. And despite what people think, you can actually fight and do well while in stat loss.
     
  23. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    So you are all for us losing our items that cost us over 500 mill in gold, by removing insurance, and thats ok.. but when we say you may stand to lsoe that much as well, you argue back.

    so what is the risk the theif takes? please explain, since I obviously don't understand.
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I am a red in Fel and I've never ever killed a miner. And the miner can fight back as to where the player has no was of stopping the theif after he steals and then stealths away.

    edit: ive also never killed any lumberjack or any other crafter/resource gatherer in Fel.

    edit 2:
    back in the days before Tram, i had a resource gatherer and he also had skills to defend himslef against reds and did quite well. Not sure if you guys heard of or remember Alice Cooper on Chessy, but I almost killed him quite a few times, and the only reason I didn't was tht he got away.
     
  25. Nexus

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    Who says without insurance you have to PvP in 500mil suits, who right now says you have to PvP in 500mil suits? Those suits are perfectly acceptable in PvM, go to trammel and kill ettins.
     
  26. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Yeah I remember when it was longer then 20 mins... (did'nt they change it latley) ... and that time flew by ...

    5/10 would be ok .. hell 5/20 would be fine (if they wanted not to touch factions)...

    But would make pvp more fun in my opinion... and YES YES... you can pvp in statloss ... you can aid your fellow pvpers with heals and g heals... you can also toss fireballs and magic arrows for fun at people, and I have gotten many a kill in statloss in the past... then BAM your out of stat before you know it.
     
  27. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    So your saying that if you invested that kind of gold in a suit to PvP with you would be ok with them being removed from the game?

    What is PvM?
    What is Trammel?
    What is an Ettin?

    Are you serious?

    Edit:

    Notice how Rico all of a sudden disapears when he is asked "what is the risk a theif takes, other than death?"
     
  28. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Easy to point at insurance as the culprit, when discussing thieves. It is not.

    Lack of content being provided for the thief is to blame.

    Why the lack of content?
    I can only speculate. lol perhaps its the difficulty in finding a balance for anti-social behavior that can be accepted by today's player.

    Do I have the solution.
    Nope, but Changing Insurance or removing it is not the solution.
     
  29. Radun

    Radun Guest

    All these posts in this thread and not one single response to the OP...

    unlike all the other insurance proposals, this one has nothing to do with removing insurance. the anti-insurance cartel has thoroughly hijacked this thread.

    Having said that, now I will respond to the OP: I don't like the idea.
     
  30. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    Here's a genuine attempt to start a mature discussion....


    How about: I can administratively "steal" insured stuff from your backpack.

    We all know that insurance isn't going to go anywhere on production shards; so to allow thieves to do something more than steal bandies and pots, here's how it would work:

    You have an insured item in your pack.
    I snoop and attempt to "steal" it.

    If I am successful, I get the insurance cost of the item, and the item is automatically removed to your bankbox. The item cannot be removed from your bankbox for a {timer period} - possibly 10-15 minutes.

    If I am unsuccessful, you kill me and get the insurance on my suit, plus the opportunity to tell me exactly what you think of thieves.


    Risk vs Reward

    Your risk = the temporary {timer} loss of an item from your pack if you don't notice me.
    Your reward = the insurance cost of my suit if you do notice me and kill me. (My thief wears an insured 70s suit, so you'll get a few bob for that, but even if I was naked, your reward is knowing that I had to waste 5 minutes trying to get a res.)

    My risk = the insurance cost of my suit (or the annoyance of running around trying to find a healer)
    My reward = the insurance gold for a single item.
     
  31. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Why not make everyone happy. Make everything stealable except for "blessed" items. Now everyone can PvP in there uber suits without fear of losing everything upon death and thieves can have a hay day with all the extra leet weps/items people carry in there packs...seems like a decent proposal
     
  32. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The problem is, you are wrong. First of all, there are plenty of ways for a player to protect their items before a thief can even try to steal them, then there are plenty of ways a player can prevent a thief from even being able to pop their pack to look inside and see if there is anything to steal. Next, there are plenty of ways for a player to kill a thief before the thief steals anything from them, then there are numerous ways for a player or group of players to kill the thief before they can get into the shadows. Finally, there are ways for a player to find the thief even after they have stolen an item...especially reds.

    I have said this numerous times, but if more people actually played thieves, they would have a better understanding on how to protect themselves from us. I have 5 accounts. Only one on Siege is a thief. When I play the other 4...I never have had a single thing stolen from them...why? I know how to protect my items...la
     
  33. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Here's the thing...we can't steal items that are equipt. I keep hearing that players lose millions of gold suits to thieves. I want to know how. Last time I checked, a thief can't disarm another players gloves or tunic...la
     
  34. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    thats very true rico, i mainly play Siege so i usually only carry one weapon, but i see all the time on chessapeake and other shards people carrying multiple weapons and when they PvM in fellucia with those crazy sampire templates that require many many items to get the exact form/ability they usually carry a couple well equiped suits in there pack...could be pretty profitable to a thief...thats only one idea i can think of right now
     
  35. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Great idea, but the one thing I would comment on is this:
    If I take a temporary loss of use for an item, I would like to see the theif take a res timer loss equal to it. So if I cant reuse my item in the bank for 15 minutes then the theif should not be able to res for that long as well.

    This makes the risk vs reward equal and balanced.
     
  36. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Please tell us how we can protect ourselves?
    Theives can random steal, so if I only have one item in my pack there is a very good chance you will steal it.
    If I try to cover it up with many items, didn't they change the stealing to where you will steal the more expensive item vs a death robe as example?

    Please tell us what the thiefs risk is vs his reward? Other than death. You seem to ignore this part ever time. Why is that?
     
  37. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    You need to stop that...carry multiple weapons...no really. :) ...la
     
  38. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Learn the game mechanics, or play a thief. I am not going to provide information to other players as a how to guide for avoiding my tactics.

    You seem to think that I run around nekked. You are wrong. I risk to lose everything in my pack and that I have equipt except for the one item I have a Siege "bless" on. I find it helps keep me on my toes if I have a pack full of goodies as opposed to a pack full of blessed items. The other risk? Losing the item we steal. I mean if you can claim you earned the item, we can make the same claim...we risk the chance of losing that item that we "earned"...worth bazillions of gold...la
     
  39. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I like this idea alot! Not sure about removing it to your bank box (I fear this would cause issues if the bankbox was full) but just make it like something that you are not strong enough to equip - you try to equip it and it falls off, or if you try to use it you get a message saying you can't.
     
  40. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    There was a time when I first came back to this game, about 10 months ago or so, that I thought trying some PvP again might be fun. Threads like these are totally discouraging. I could never afford to even make a decent attempt to learn. :(
     
  41. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Actually my comment was rhetorical and facetious


    How about considering the impact on all the shards from your proposing rule changes and not just SP.

    Lets see... there are 25 production shards and 2 old school shards SP/mungen and you don't seem to take the other 25 into account.

    You can also not say that losing the item you just stole is a risk, since in fact you did not originally buy it or make it.

    And on one of the 25 regular production shards all your "goodies" would be insured. ANd what is to stop you from running around naked with nothing in your pack when you steal anyway?

    As I said, your way has no risk for theives and only the rewards..la la
     
  42. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The desire to actually get away or be able to prolong a long game of hide and seek. Again, since you don't know how I play, you have no idea what I do after a steal. I don't hightail it to the nearest guardzone or safe spot. No, I try to keep my mark involved in the chase as long as possible. That usually includes popping out of the shadows or stealing other items from them. And yes we "earned" them. We worked skills up to a level that allows us to get them. If you wish to throw out the "earned" word in regards to pixels, I'll feel free to add it into my vocabulary when it comes to my profession...la
     
  43. Nexus

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    Not at all, simply because I would have the sense to know that if there was no Insurance not to wear a 500mil suit. I've got plenty of Dex Monkeys I use strictly for PvM they'd wind up with the suit and it would benift them greatly. Your reasoning for pointing out a 500mil suit is flawed because of this, just because you have something doesn't mean you have to use it.

    What risk does your Dexxer or Mage take? The risks for both are exactly the same, trying to argue that point is futile because there is no more or less risk involved on either side of the argument.
     
  44. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Thats like saying, just don't play uo at all this way you have no risk.

    Why would someone invest so much into a suit to just not use it.

    Maybe you werent around in the old days, but the best Vanq weapons were never seen, because they were in the bank due to fear of losing them. How dumb and pointless is that after all the time invested in finding or getting a great item but not be able to use it in fear of losing it.


    We didn't ask for risk vs reward, he did. We either taok the time to make or purchased the item for huge amounts of earned gold. To make it where somone can just walk by and steal it after all the hard work is just dumb.

    In this case it's time spent playing to earn the item vs the 1 second it takes to lose it to a theif. And you think this is fair and balanced? PLEASE!! :coco:

    Edit:
    In my opinion Risk vs Reward would be in the loot you get off of creatures not players. So there may be a huge risk in going somewhere and getting PKed for it, but the reward would hugely outweigh the insurance loss if you do die.
     
  45. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    What is it about PvP that makes you want to implement these?

    How would this help PvP?

    Wouldn't it just be more annoying for people in general?

    Not to get into a big debate about factions and stat loss, but the biggest gripe that people had with factions was stat loss... err, that is next to the 23 hours of guarding the sigils for 1 hour of fighting. Can you say boring!!

    And people wonder why no one does factions.
     
  46. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    there its all fixed now.... thats how I see theifs... with the current system I can deal with it and its fine by me , in Fel with no insurence ... no thank you there is a reason I dont play on siege , and its not the skill gains and its not the 1 char rule ( I got 7 accounts so who cares ?? ) , its the frieking thiefs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  47. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    So because you raised your skill points you earned the right to my items ???
    I think not ...... And admit it allready , you may not , but 90%+ of the thiefs would run naked and steal with no risk what so ever.....
     
  48. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest


    QFT !!!!
     
  49. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    That's not saying the same thing at all. Vanqs might not have been seen back in the day but they were rare too. Did you know that a Smith with a DC hammer can make a weapon that outstrips a Vanq in base damage. There would be suitable weapons and armor still available just not of the quality standard the PvP community has come to expect, that is another way of pointing out the same flaw I mentioned before...There are alternatives but you expect your 500mil suit to be the there for PvP. You expect it but does that mean you are entitled to it? No those are two separate things, but by all means wear that 500mil suit uninsured in Fel, if it was changed to be Insurance free, I wouldn't care, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.



    Really then justify Power Scrolls and 2x Resources being in Fel...The Developers have even came out and said that the basis is Risk vs Reward, you may not have asked for it but you accepted it when you went to Felucca. Once again your feeling your entitled to something when you aren't really.

    As for the edit you added, as you said it's your opinion, not the developers. These topics are to voice some of the players concerns and desires to the developers in hopes they will be looked into and some merit in the topics or an alternative acceptable means to accomplish similar ends can be found. By all means argue against these things, but don't do so based strictly on personal opinion. Find solid fault and instability in them, not "I can't wear my 500mil Suit" as that is not an instability as alternatives would be there, you might not like them but they would be there.
     
  50. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No, because I raised those skills, I have earned the right to try and take those items. There are so many factors at play, it's hard to list them all. To think a thief gets away all the time is a flawed premise...la