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Another script?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Olahorand, Apr 26, 2009.

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  1. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Instead of script miners I see now characters recalling in to a silent bank and withdrawing a small random amount of gold (one or 2 k around). Recalling away and coming back, doing the same a minute or so later.
    What are they doing?
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  2. blueturtle

    blueturtle Lore Keeper
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    buying regs
     
  3. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Or scrolls. Or axes.
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    From the brief description I get the impression it might be an old script. Even before I stopped playing there had been players using scripts like that for quite some time. Not even much complicated to run, I would imagine.
     
  5. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    Or razors. It's emoscript.exe.
     
  6. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Razors and black eye liner. Those emoscripts usually a combo types.
     
  7. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Can we stop this now please?
     
  8. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    I believe there was a post about this same strange activity a couple months ago. While no one really knew what the chars were actually doing, people suspected it had something to do with the library turn-in. I guess you could always go to the library and see if the char shows up there and if so then what person they are contributing too. Otherwise if you suspect they are running a script page a GM. I hear they have become more active in busting unattended macroing.
     
  9. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Like I said, there are scripts that enable you to go around to mage shops and buy blank scrolls. From what I have seen of them you recall around and then back to the bank every few minutes to get more gold.

    There are also a few that let you go around to npc vendors and buy up axes to donate to the library. I think the idea is that those end up being a more cost efficient way to get certain rewards.

    And, as was already said, the same ones that do blank scrolls also let you buy up regs.

    I am not saying that is what they are doing, or that there aren't more legal things that could be going on. But it sounds like that is what's going on.
     
  10. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    Might also be running a script to build up the reg spawns on vendors, that is a time consuming pain in the arse task.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Something I never understood, is whether the game engine may or not have a detecting system which automatically rings a bell in the Game Masters room whenever a player, any player, keeps doing the same activity over and over and over and over and over with the moreless same time intervals.

    GMs could then step in, do an investigation and ban the scripter if they found sufficient suspicion.

    I have the impression that such automated detection, at least when I used to play years back, was not active because at least in one occasion I remember that me and other players monitored a player doing that kind of repetitive activity for hours and across several days.
    Several players said to have even paged Game Masters to investigate the activity and yet, we kept seeing the same activity keeping going and going and going and going and going and going some more.

    Eventually i got tired of all those kind of things and stopped playing the game.

    Personally, I think that stopping players cheating should be a #1 priority before anything else. Before new content, before add ons, anything.

    Nothing should be as important as stopping any and all possible ways of cheating in a game.

    But that's only my opinion.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    And what does that possibly mean if I may ask ?

    I think I can agree that in the game there may be boring and repetitive tasks but, to my opinion, this is not the issue.

    Either we accept the idea that scripting is needed in the game, and therefore allowed, or not.

    If we think the game needs players running scripts to get boring and repetitive things done well, then ALL players should have access to this advantage, not only some players.

    The real issue, IMHO, is having some players use a time saving advantage and some other players not using it and, therefore, being at a gross disadvantage.

    So, to my humble opinion, the policy of the Company owning the game should either be doing anything to stop scripting for good in the game OR, should this not be possible, whatever the reasons, then allow ALL players to script in the game by having the game client be able to run scripts.

    The worst situation, IMHO, is the current one we have where neither scripting is stopped for good nor all players are allowed to use it.

    The current situation only leaves a great disparity among players who script and players who do not script.

    Not right, IMHO.
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No worries KR is a step to this not only does it replace uoassit but it mimicks some scripts that cant be done whiout another 3rd party program. The sa client will be another more improved step in this. In time ea clients will replace all other 3rd party programs that is if players dont complain about 2d not able to do what KR can do and SA will be able to do.
     
  14. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    I assume its somebody scripting turn-ins for the Library/Museum Collections.
     
  15. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Oh NO another post about how you all hate scripters on uhall surprise surprise
    Lets get some actual questions and real topics posted for a change i am sick of all the NERF or SCRIPT posts that keep happening!
     
  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You know what I see that makes me sad..... every shore, everywhere in Sossaria is littered with boats..... dozens and dozens of them... what are they doing? What all do they have in their holds?? My guess is contraban... dupped stuff, and scripter bods.... that's my guess... makes you sad.

    Seems to me the number of honest players is dwindling to an all time low as the cheaters and scammers grow.... and seems to me everyone is out to make a quick buck.... they don't care how they ruin things for everyone else... they don't care that the DEV team has to take drastic measures to counter them... ruining things for everyone else... (ei: random ore and wood)...

    Just fills me with an overwhelming saddness when I look at them.... screen after screen after screen of boats... I think it's high time the master of disaster took a peek inside the holds of a few of them... and set the shores ablaze with burned boats..... Put an end to them on every shore. That's just my opinion... but I'm sure I'm not alone.
     
  17. *gasps*

    Are you implying that there are smugglers upon our shores?!

    Mayhaps a mighty pirate force is gathering...
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I may well be wrong, but I have a feeling that this status of things (wide spread scripting and cheating) also happens because of a lack of sufficient checks.

    If more manpower (Game Masters) was trained and put to investigate suspicious activities and ban the scripters and the cheaters perhaps the problem would not be as wide spread.

    Also, though I enjoy playing the 2D client I am really upset at the decision not to terminate support to it for when Stygian Abyss will come out.

    It would have been a good chance to help end this scripting plague and instead, it will be a lost occasion. Too bad.
     
  19. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    probably;)
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Good to hear that, I am all for eradicating scripting out of the game and cheaters.....

    But then, how can I explain that support for the 2D client will not terminate when Stygian Abyss will be released ??

    It was my understanding that much of the problem with scripting was the existance of the 2D client.

    Ending the 2D client would deal quite a blow to scripting in the game.

    So, seeing that support for the 2D client will continue quite confuses me.
     
  21. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    I disagree with everything you say here.

    Scripting, cheating, duping, etc etc etc will never be fully eradicated because it's just too huge of a task, IMHO.

    WoW has tons/all of it, and it's the largest MMO to date, not to mention the most successful.

    And for you to actually say the my support of the 2D client (the one that I have loved for over 4 years) is the reason cheating exists. That just blows my mind.

    What about the people that report scriptors daily to the GM staff/management? Maybe the problem stems from Lack of GM action and not from the 2D client? Just a little food for thought.

    what do you think popps?:blushing:
     
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Now you really got me very confused here........

    I post saying that "I may be wrong" but I feel more should be done to fight cheating and you reply saying that I am probably wrong.......

    Meaning, at least the way I understand it, that cheating in UO is hard fought.

    Then you post again saying that we should have more Game Masters taking action against scripters/cheaters ?

    I am lost..........
     
  23. Confuses you?!

    Ending support for the 2D client would end Ultima Online, my dear sir.

    When 75% of your active subscribers prefer the 2D client, you'd best not be shooting yourself in that foot.
     
  24. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    He means equating 2D to cheating is incorrect.

    Rather, GM enforcement is the key.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    If that is so why do I keep reading that much of the problem with scripting is because of the 2D client ??

    It is not right then ?




    Possibly, but it comes at a cost, unfortunately.
    Tracking a number of players takes time and time cost money.

    A solution relying on a client that would block scripting, automatically, would be quite less expensive than having to rely on personell that has a cost.

    Does Ultima Online have enough revenues to allow for extensive Game Masters enforcement to go after scripters and cheaters ??
     
  26. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Word. :thumbsup:
     
  27. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Exactly.:thumbsup:
     
  28. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Who knows? :coco:

    What I do know is this; get rid of the 2D client, get rid of UO. That about sums it up for me.
     
  29. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    The reason why people have that misconception is because a particular scripting program currently runs on 2D only.

    If UO stops supporting the 2D client and is made to only run in KR, scripters will create a new scripting program for KR. It might stop the scripters for a while, but it's like an arms race. Just like people keep creating programs for WoW and find ways to stealth around punkbuster.

    As long people feel the need to cheat to get an advantage, they will find a way to do it. I can understand why they blame the 2D client, but if they look at the problem deeper, they will realise it's not the root of the problem and stopping support for the 2D engine is not the correct way.

    As to increased GM staff, yes, it will likely cost time and money. 2 sides to this - UO definitely is generating enough revenue to support it. But EA at the moment seems to be reluctant on improving GM support.

    However, they do not really need much extra resources. Starting small - consistent bannings only 1 cheater a day will curb 99% of the cheating activities. And this must be publicized.

    This serves 2 purposes - instills confidence from the player base that GMs are indeed doing something and discourages would be cheaters from using cheats. At the moment, cheaters think they can get away with it because you rarely hear someone getting banned.

    Same rationale whenever you read in the papers once criminals have been caught. If the police do not tell the public that they have caught the criminal, the public will think the police is not doing anything. Others comtemplating a crime will be enboldened to do so if they believe that there will be no reprisals.



    Edit: Oh, adding a stealth detection engine into the UO 2D client to detect cheat programs is perfectly do-able, and I'd be surprised if they have not done it or thought of doing it. GMs would then have a much easier time to determine if the player was indeed cheating too.

    Blocking it outright would work too, but reveals their hands immediately and allows the cheaters to work around the block.

    Still, it boils down to letting cheaters know that they will be punished if they cheat. And not decommisionning the 2D client to stop cheating. It's like chopping off an arm to stop a fungul infection, instead of using medication to kill the fungus. The arm is gone forever, and the fungus will find a way to infect your other arm if you don't use medication.
     
  30. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I read in another post that one of the big reasons scripting in 2d is much easier than KR or 3d was that the code or summing was leaked at T2A, allowing for easy finding of...stuf(sorry im not a comp whizz).

    The 2D client, isnt going(as such) but SA(enhanced 2d withn a KR twist from what i gather) will eventually be the sole client(already been stated) must say im looking forward to it, always played in 2d and until SA always will...but the screenies so far look SWEET!
     
  31. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Great post.
     
  32. woden

    woden Guest

    Simple Solution (At least in Fel):
    Change the way murder counts are reported. I almost always gather resources in Fel and I hardly go a day without running into a scripter. I kill them when I have a count to spare but you all know how long those take to recharge. The problem here is that 99% of the counts I receive for doing this are reported 4 or 5 hours after the fact. A simple time limit for reporting a murder would do wonders for community enforcement against scriptors. I think 10 minutes would be more than generous. I know that whenever I'm murdered I report the moment it happens. Why does some other guy need 5 hours? Just an idea....
     
  33. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Actually thats an awesome idea, i dont think im ever afk in fel(apart from in my house)longer that 5mins(mans gta pee!). If i go for...uhum...something more substantial :p i always go to a safe location.
     
  34. Eh... if it's in Felucca, just lure monsters onto the scripter. That's legal to do in Felucca and no counts. I agree that 5 hours is way too long, but there are other ways to take care of that problem.
     
  35. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Wanna bet?

    When 3rd Dawn was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. I still play 2D. When KR was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. I still play 2D. When SA was announced, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'. When *insert name of next 2D killing client, everyone popped up and said that it was going to soon be the 'sole client'.

    I can only speak for myself but unless they come up with a client that I LIKE as much as 2D, I will only use 2D. Will it happen ever? Maybe. Maybe not.

    As for all the people thinking that removing 2D will get rid of cheating, I will add on my opinion which is the same as what has been said already. Don't hold your breath. As has been mentioned, WoW was a very advanced client and it still has rampant cheating. Everytime they add something to remove it, it pops back up again.
     
  36. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Pointless. And I don't mean to disparage your opinion at all. But I happen to know that all that would do is make script makings add a simple 'Say yes to Murder Count gump' command in their scripts.
     
  37. I think it was Draconi that said the only way 2d would go away was if 80% (?) or more of the playerbase made the switch to the new client. Considering how many diehard 2d fans there are, I don't expect the balance to ever reach the point that 2d would be retired.
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Not entirely sure but I would imagine that it is a possibility that, at least in theory, the script could foresee such an incident and report the murder when this happen, automatically.

    Hence, it would not change much things as they are now, IMHO....
     
  39. Dude1598

    Dude1598 Adventurer
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    Heres my view on scripting for resoruces

    Lets use lumberjacking for an example.

    Would you want to spend hours upon hours looking for frostwood and then in the end find nothing ?

    So you dont find any forstwood but there is some on a vendor. Are you going to pay there price they set and you know thats going to be higher then what it is now ?

    I see duping as bad but scripting helps everyone that needs resources because it keeps the prices in reason
     
  40. I disagree with this very much. Duping= Scripting= Cheating= Bad for UO. I disagree with your whole premise, and it is a vary narrow and self-centric viewpoint.

    Scripting hurts the whole economy of UO. It floods the economy with resources that even an industrious person who wants to hunt resources can't compete with. IF fair prices were paid for the fair gathering of resources and not scripters' prices, then more people would take the time to find the frostwood.
     
  41. Dude1598

    Dude1598 Adventurer
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    Duping doesnt equal scripting. What happens with a dupe is that a person founds a way to copy whatever they want and keep doing it untill they have whant they want to sell or it gets fixed.

    I used to mine I had this very nice UOAssist macro setup to mine and smelt for me in one macro. I did it untill the changed all locations to random ore locations and lumberjacking spots. It was nice to get whatever I need and then play the game some more. Now you got to mine/lumberjack for days some times to get what you want. So thats why I stopped and other people have done the same because its all random.
     
  42. I KNOW what duping is. My point is that duping and scripting resources are cheating, and that hurts UO.
     
  43. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Unfortunatly, apart form leather farming, the way they have changed the ore locations has basically made it so we are at the point we "need" scripters. Seriously who is going to script for a week to find the valorite, or whatever wood they need to fill a bod/burn a kit.

    I honestly think a better solution would have been to randomise the spawn of ore weekly. That way the honest player would be able to mine locations mark rune blah blah.

    Scripting would be so much more involved they would either need to change there locations weekly or run the risk of only mining iron.
     
  44. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Aside from saying 'cheating hurts UO' why don't you explain how it really does? Back in the day people claimed that things like UOA were 'cheating' and that it 'hurt UO'. Then it became 'legal' and suddenly it 'helped UO'. The only thing that changed was that it became called 'legal'. Now, the devs have started putting functionality into the game that mimics what UOA can do. And, that is said to be 'helping UO'.

    Does it hurt UO that a person can play the game for 8 hours while another person can only play for 1? Hmmm. They have more of a chance to get the high end drops. They can farm more gold. They can farm more resources. And they can do more quests to get more chance for more runics. Doesn't that hurt UO?

    If EA turned around tomorrow (and we know it won't happen) and said that *insert name of third party scripting tool* was now legal, will you jump up here and start proclaiming that that is 'helping UO'?

    You know what hurts UO? Devs putting in things that ENCOURAGE people to script. You want a runic hammer or a runic kit? You have to collect BoDs till you get just the right combination of small and large bods that give you a chance for what you want. Then, you have to farm for months to get enough leather or ingots to be able to complete those BoDs. You ever tried farming valorite ore these days? I don't do BoDs for that very reason. Its mind numbing. You want a runic saw or fletching kit? You have to farm for months to get enough wood to be able to do enough quests to have even a decent chance to MAYBE get one.
     
  45. Oh, I agree that the randomization was a huge mistake on EA's part. No matter how many times they've "explained" their reasoning, it still doesn't wash. But that STILL DOES NOT justify scripting resources. We'll probably never agree on that part though.
     
  46. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Unless they make mining 'fun' to do for hours at a time, there will always be people that script it instead. There are scripts out there now that use 10 or more runebooks full of mining spots. And they also keep track of what you mine so if you go to a spot and its iron you can set it up to move to the next spot until you find the ore you are looking for.

    Randomized ore did nothing to cut down on scripting. Adding Heartwood and BoDs did everything to increase scripting. Sad but true.
     
  47. woden

    woden Guest

    Maybe so, but it would make me happier to not receive murder counts 5 hours after the fact. It's ridiculous.
     
  48. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    Scripting is terrible especially because of the way LJ works now, and here is why:

    If there was NO scripting, only legitimate (IE people sitting at the monitor, chop, chop, chop) choppers would be trying for those high end woods. Because the amount of time compared to the return on wood is enormous, less people would chop wood even though wood prices would soar. After all, none of the nice woods are needed in bulk - if you want to do a turn in it's easier to get valorite or dragon scales or whatever. Only a little bit is needed for wood item enhancing. So there is no consistent need for a large amount of colored wood.

    Eventually the complaints on the board would have devs realize that something needed to be adjusted, and once again LJ would become a reasonable resource gathering skill, and not the crap shoot/time suck it currently is. So as it is, scripters do keep the price of the resources down, but in doing so lessen the complaints that would get the system overhauled, which would benefit legitimate players and buyers alike. Making it easier to get special woods would create a surplus (or at least have the potential to make frostwood a viable library/museum turn in again).
     
  49. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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  50. HD2300

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    Randomization was an incentive for scriptors to pay for extra accounts to script. More scripting accounts = More money for EA.
     
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