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answer me this...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "One of the more intriguing elements of any massively multiplayer online game is the developer's ability to change the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base." ~

    If the above statement is true, which I feel it is...
    My question is; How come in over 10 years the AI in UO is still dumb down bots? [​IMG]
     
  2. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    ....and this, people, is why we have PvP. [​IMG]
     
  3. try pvp you will see different levels of ai
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    PvP is a whole other can of wyrms...

    Only PvP worth doing is on SP which has a trammel code all over it, so bad that it sucks worse then production shards at times...
     
  5. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    I agree that AI needs to be made smarter, but in the meantime (we all know how long things can take with this game...) PvP is your best bet if your looking for a challenge!
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    "One of the more intriguing elements of any massively multiplayer online game is the developer's ability to change the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base." ~

    If the above statement is true, which I feel it is...
    My question is; How come in over 10 years the AI in UO is still dumb down bots? [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, to be honest. Some people dont want smarter monsters. If you cant kill them, they dont get gold and stuff.

    If you notice as monsters get smarter, stronger, whatever...

    People move away from them.

    Liches and in necro. Taking 2 can be harder. People yelled.
    Change dread spiders. Not smarter, just more HP. People left them.
    Same with swoop.

    Intelligence is needed. Some monsters are "smarter". But some smarts is just the combo spells from 2 mage casting monsters. You just die. But players yell its unfair.

    Mostly Id like to see monsters run. Run into battle fight. Run off to heal.
    Id like to see groups of monsters work together.

    But its not all intelligence. Slayer weapons EOO make quick hit kills.

    So I agree and disagree.

    No one wants to fight a smart monster just to win. "WHERES THE LOOT REWARD"

    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.

    Gold for a kill blah. I make more on vendors.

    Its a combo of AI, difficulty, and reward. They all have to be factored toghether.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Its a combo of AI, difficulty, and reward. They all have to be factored toghether.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well said...
     
  8. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>


    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Whats the point? The point is a challenge, probably the exact same reason the OP started this thread. Besides, it's more about having fun, not winning and losing (although some PvPers, and PvMers too I guess don't share this opinion).
     
  9. <blockquote><hr>


    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.

    [/ QUOTE ]Siege Perilous.
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    Its a combo of AI, difficulty, and reward. They all have to be factored toghether.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well said...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree...

    I don't find pvp any more challenging than pvm... it's just different. There are a lot of pvpers out there that have even lower difficulty than the worst AI. There are others that are smarter than the smartest monsters.

    AI doesn't necessarily translate into difficulty, though. There are monsters that have abilities that make them just as challenging as any pvper. If this weren't true, you wouldn't see so many pvpers dieing to monsters.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.

    [/ QUOTE ]Siege Perilous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Give me my 16x16 home and Ill come right over.
     
  12. I don't think it's about just having fun for most UO players... Of course, there are many things that different UO players consider fun too...

    I think the ML champ spawns are pretty fun, but not worth doing because the loot is poorly balanced with the difficulty.

    I think most forms of pvp are pretty boring. PVP used to be the thing I found most fun in UO, but these days it's all about chasing people all over the place. The first year of UO was the best pvp UO has ever seen. Siege is the closest to fun pvp in current UO, but it gets old pretty quickly too. I made a char on siege and killed my first red when all my skills were 70 or less. I then RoT'd my skills up and went from 0 to knight of justice in a few hours. It was fun for a short while, but I got bored pretty quickly. I only mention this to point out that I don't find pvp boring because I can't pvp... I find it boring because it's a shadow of what we once had... it's boring for me.
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.

    [/ QUOTE ]Siege Perilous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Give me my 16x16 home and Ill come right over.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    why not 18x18?
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The lack of evolution of AI in monsters is why players who PvP do so much better at PvM. You are always adapting the latest tactics in PvP situations which will be translated over to PvM. But if all you do is PvM, nothing changes from 5 years ago to today. Thus why some people are constantly amazed that someone can kill a monster 3x faster than they do.

    There have been some advances in AI over the years but additional changes have completely destroyed that progress. For example the Orc Scout used to be an interesting opponent but its teleport and hide ability has been broken for who knows how long.

    AI hasn't been upgraded since they implemented monster pathfinding. If you are old enough to remember when monsters could only walk straight at you, then you are a true UO veteran.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is Sneaky Que on my alt. see my post count on Sneaky? LOL

    <blockquote><hr>


    The first year of UO was the best pvp UO has ever seen.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Totally agree, but PvP is still fun. UO as a whole was better back then, but its still an awesome game. [​IMG]

    <blockquote><hr>


    Siege is the closest to fun pvp in current UO, but it gets old pretty quickly too.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeh, I would play Siege too if, A. I didn't lag (I live in Australia so my ping to it is baaad) and B. there was no AoS on it. I have tried to play on there before but quit in frustration from dealing with the lag monster.

    <blockquote><hr>


    I find it boring because it's a shadow of what we once had... it's boring for me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeh, I can understand that, its why they need to revamp factions, and do stuff like that to help freshen up PvP and Felucia in general.
     
  16. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Championspawns are such a system.

    What they say sounds a lot more innovative than it is though.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hail: Well i suggested the following idea, Years ago. The players of every game in the world all say the same thing. ' The AI Sucks ". The only 2 ways to improve it is,

    1. What almost every one does, and that is to beef up the Creatures in the game. They are still stupid, but now stronger. We then complain about them being over powerd. What sould be done, is this.......

    2. Let Players have a Monster slot. AND PLAY AS THE DIFFERENT CREATURES IN THE GAME. No special abilities, or weapons/armor, Nothing. You get exactly what the creature you are has. The only difference now, is that instead of the AI controlling that Frost Troll, Bob, in Reno is at the keyboard controlling him.

    This fixes everything. It is right, and it is fair, and should have been done from the get go. There are a lot of differnt ways or methods of incorporating this into the game. IMHOP, This would bring more players into, and back into UO than any other thing.

    It also gives, "Bunny Bashing", a whole new meaning. That Bunny fighting a snake just might be ol Bob, trying to level up to transform into a higher level creature, or just 2 regualr AI creatures fighting each other, Or Bob fighting Linda. hehehe, Weeeeeeeee.
     
  18. what would the point of being a monster be?
    Could you attack players? Would you be restricted to Fel? could you leave the dungeon you started in? I don;t see a point to that at all. Why not just play a player and attack other players, thats the exact same thing... Heck, wear crappy armor and a crappy weapon and pretend to be a monster......
     
  19. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    You have to figure what the word trends represents......read between the lines.
     
  20. I love the monster idea. The developers would have to be really careful and not mess it up by turning it into something other than a novelty.

    If you are inhabiting the body of a Lizard person on the first level of Despise, you should not be allowed to leave that level, anything you say should come out in Lizardman garble-speech, and you should experience permadeath when you die, with your soul returning to your original character somewhere else.

    You could access this feature by perhaps some rare potion, or maybe some fountain in a town with weird hallucinating waters.
     
  21. The point of pvp is to beat another free thinking person capable of doing many different things. Thats the point of pvping.

    Also whoever said some pvpers are lower then some monsters ai. Please you can fight the same monsters over and over and never be surprised heck depending on what you fight you might never die. Even the dumbest pvper can get lucky land all his shots land all his poisons or your just flat out having a bad day and get beat.

    Thats the joy of pvp its unpredictable....Its not just eoo and start hitting.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    PvP lost it for me, years ago, if i die i lose nothing. I win, I gain nothing. Whats the point.

    [/ QUOTE ]Siege Perilous.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Give me my 16x16 home and Ill come right over.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    why not 18x18?

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Cause Im not Greedy.
     
  23. come on over to siege and ill co-owner you to a tower w of umbra that i dont use.

    I'd offer to give you an 18x18 free, but I figure you are like most production players and couldn't hack it on siege- and then I would lose out on my investment.
     
  24. <blockquote><hr>

    "One of the more intriguing elements of any massively multiplayer online game is the developer's ability to change the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base." ~

    If the above statement is true, which I feel it is...
    My question is; How come in over 10 years the AI in UO is still dumb down bots? [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cute Hypothetical ...

    Oh! no doubt that you MAY believe it heart and soul ...(though you merely said : "which I feel it is...")
    Thing is ... being the hall and all ...
    Wheres the "game"?
    The game that HAS chang<font color=red>ed</font color=red> the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base ...

    [​IMG] Tis only fair ... and, fairly necessary ... to keep any following "debate" ... from being merely a defense of your belief in a rather "generic" statement ...
    UO players HAVE been asking about better AI ... haven't really seen it ...yet ... here we are.

    Well, Wheres the "instance" of "a game" ... that shows how It Has Been done "better" ... purely in terms of enhanced AI ..." within That game to adapt to current trends by the player base"

    Hmmmm?

    (could have at least cited your source ... [​IMG])
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    come on over to siege and ill co-owner you to a tower w of umbra that i dont use.

    I'd offer to give you an 18x18 free, but I figure you are like most production players and couldn't hack it on siege- and then I would lose out on my investment.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ah, youre just spouting. Of course I could make it. If I get pixal whipped. Oh wait on Siege too you get rezzed. So I cant really die. Im there. If I decide to leave, Ill give you your house back. But come on... A house on Siege, and PvP without insurance. What more could I ask for? I know the account Ill change over.
     
  26. come on over. Ill co-owner you to an empty house. but as i said, I am not goign to get scammed giving a house to someone who is likely to leave within a month. I am not saying you personally cannot hack it, I am just saying a majority of people who come to siege end up pussing out once they realize they are trammies at heart.
    If I knew you were going to stay I'd give you one, but I don't, so I wont. But I will co0own you to an empty one.
     
  27. I just ran around Siege observing the land. There's open tower and potentially keep spots. You could place a 16x16 fairly easily without any trouble with fairly minimal effort.
     
  28. <blockquote><hr>

    I just ran around Siege observing the land. There's open tower and potentially keep spots. You could place a 16x16 fairly easily without any trouble with fairly minimal effort.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    There are plenty of 18x18s. Dont need to look too hard.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I just ran around Siege observing the land. There's open tower and potentially keep spots. You could place a 16x16 fairly easily without any trouble with fairly minimal effort.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    There are plenty of 18x18s. Dont need to look too hard.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Really? Well Ill come look. Actually, any chance of marking me some runes. It my be a bit of time before I can fend for myself. Once I have some spots, lets see I only need to earn what 200k. Thats what 4000 lizardmen.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Cute Hypothetical ...

    Oh! no doubt that you MAY believe it heart and soul ...(though you merely said : "which I feel it is...")
    Thing is ... being the hall and all ...
    Wheres the "game"?
    The game that HAS chang<font color=red>ed</font color=red> the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base ...

    [​IMG] Tis only fair ... and, fairly necessary ... to keep any following "debate" ... from being merely a defense of your belief in a rather "generic" statement ...
    UO players HAVE been asking about better AI ... haven't really seen it ...yet ... here we are.

    Well, Wheres the "instance" of "a game" ... that shows how It Has Been done "better" ... purely in terms of enhanced AI ..." within That game to adapt to current trends by the player base"

    Hmmmm?

    (could have at least cited your source ... [​IMG])

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I didnt' want this debate to been seen as an advertisement of another game so I had left the source out... But I have experience this first hand in said game.

    I can also add in that I've seen some excellent AI on PR-UO servers...

    <blockquote><hr>

    I am just saying a majority of people who come to siege end up pussing out once they realize they are trammies at heart.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I loved Siege, but I wont play there. To many game bugs and imbalances in pvp because of trammel code bleed. Just look at how the devs gave stealth tamers a boosted last week with the "super dragons", they dont care about SP or PvP... But please let keep this thread on topic of UO monster/animal AIs...
     
  31. if you skin them thats only... ~300 lizardmen.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I love the monster idea. The developers would have to be really careful and not mess it up by turning it into something other than a novelty.

    If you are inhabiting the body of a Lizard person on the first level of Despise, you should not be allowed to leave that level, anything you say should come out in Lizardman garble-speech, and you should experience permadeath when you die, with your soul returning to your original character somewhere else.

    You could access this feature by perhaps some rare potion, or maybe some fountain in a town with weird hallucinating waters.

    [/ QUOTE ]This could be alot of fun! Could you imagine a small guild raiding Despise as Ogre Lords? Plague beasts homing in on the altar at Hopper's Bog?
     
  33. [​IMG] Taking your word for it ... nah ... ain't gonna happen ...
    I've already allowed as to YOU "you MAY believe it heart and soul ...(though you merely said : "which I feel it is...") "
    present, but, insufficient.

    PR-UO shards are not proof that " is the developer's ability to change the level of AI within the game to adapt to current trends by the player base"
    [​IMG] sorry ... 'tisn't ... a patched knock off ... just is not anything more than: "which I feel it is..."

    pretty much the same for the unnamed game ...
    Need an example of the GAME before and after ... to determine IF the game was "improved/succesful" ...
    "The Game" (unrevealed/unknown) Could Be [​IMG] "darkfall"

    ie. all in your dreams
     
  34. [​IMG] sigs are off ...

    Just dealing with text and ideas presented ... no assumptions on this side ...

    need to at least descibe this "better AI"
    do the mob's organize and stalk ya?
    win half the time?