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Any noticeable differences b/w 52-55 LMC?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Arcades, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Just wondering the math, are there any noticeable differences b/w 52/53/54/55 LMC when casting spells, or using specials since the mana requirements are rounded up/down to the nearest whole number???

    Would save me some real hassles getting the exact 55LMC on bone/studded suits if 52, 53, or 54 had the same outcome as 55 LMC.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    Uhm, the cap for LMC is 40, as far as I know. :)
     
  3. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    • Studded leather, hide armor, stone armor and bone armor provides 3% of LMC per piece
    • Platemail, ringmail, chainmail, and dragon armor provides 1% of LMC per piece
    • Non-medable and woodland armor provides no inherent LMC.
    • these are not effected by lmc cap so 55
     
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  4. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    ive got 55 on a couple suits but never really bothered to pay any attention to it to see if there was any marked difference.
    they are warriors wearing heavy suits and maxed on mana leech so between the leech and the LMC i never seem to drop in mana.
     
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  5. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    pretty sure 40 is the cap so u would not see any difference above this?? yah..
     
  6. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Since its percentage based, the difference, assuming you even can go over the cap, would be negligable.
     
  7. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    Exactly, so why waste "points" on getting it to 55 then?
     
  8. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    You're wrong. Go read the Patch Notes of Publish 81, section "Armor Inherent Lower Mana Cost".
     
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  9. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    no idea iam sure we are about to be re-educated on the matter though
     
  10. Leira of Asrai

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    Base cap for LMC is 40%
    Recent changes to armor allow up to 5 pieces to add LMC above the cap, new max is 55%.
    With combination of certain skills you can reduce special moves mana cost by 10 mana.
    Armor Ignore, Feint and Nerve Strike require 30 mana, 60 if used again within 3 seconds, or 20/50 mana with skill modifier.
    At 52 LMC, special moves will cost 10/24 mana. At 55 LMC special moves will cost 9/23. So you will see a minimal benefit to the max LMC.
    A player doing 100 damage with a 70 Mana leech weapon will leech approximately 0-28 mana per hit.
    You might find a benefit to the 55 LMC in longer fights.
     
  11. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    Oh, that explains why. Now I just wonder why they've made such stupid change. Never mind, crafting was ruined years ago anyway...
     
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    What spells/specials will you be using the most? A moving shot req. 20 mana, for example, and the difference between 50% LMC and 55% LMC would be only 1 mana. If you did a mortal, though, which requires 30 mana, the difference between 50% LMC and 55% LMC would be 1.5 mana. The more mana you need to use the more 55% will matter.

    As mentioned above, however, if your main concern is PvM, Mana Leech should have you covered. I'm really not sure how much the LMC would help unless you're focused on PvP. I'm not sure about how LMC rounds, though. I would imagine it rounds up.

    Do you have an item that gives 15 LMC w/o any MR/etc? If you use a mortal with 15 LMC it should cost 25.5 mana. That should give you an idea.
     
    #12 G.v.P, Jun 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    because it makes a huge difference. especially when double mana cost (doing 2 specials within 3 seconds)
    Its the difference between an AI taking 18mana or 24mana when you are chaining them every 1.25 seconds.

    I assumed it was a percentage and then rounded. so might be different depending on how much the intial special move or spells costs. i only tested for ai, where it seems the bonus goes in 5s. i would recomend testing for your specific main spells / specials.

    I usually find that with a 100 perecnt mana leech weapon 45 lower mana cost is fine.
    However with a pvp character (or character that does not rely on mana leech) more is needed.
     
  14. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    LMC calculation round UP. It's makes a large amount of difference when your spamming double cost specials... 9.1 calculated mana rounds up to 10 etc. Have to go full 55%.....though in PvM you could number crunch and do your own cost analysisi.....
     
  15. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    Thanks for the answer Vexxed, I came to same conclusion after some testing. And yes, I do agree, when spamming double cost specials in PvP, 55LMC matters a lot more. I find with PvM its not as important b/c u can do much larger damage numbers, thus leech back a lot more.
     
  16. Katrena

    Katrena Sage
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    Actual LMC is capped at 40 like it has always been. By this I mean, if you put 50 or 60 LMC on your character, it is still only 40 and will display 40 in your Health Bar. Additional inherited LMC from armor stacks on top of the 40. By this I mean, a plate armor piece will give you an additional 1 LMC per piece and studded armor will give you an additional 3 LMC per piece for a combined total of 5 pieces. This is how you can get 45 (plate) or 55 (studded) LMC suits now. This additional inherited LMC will display in your health bar.

    Actual benefit from LMC only works in 5 LMC increments. By this I mean, any LMC between 40-44 will be the same reduction in mana cost. Likewise, 45-49 or 50-54 is the same.

    Where this becomes critical, is if you have a real tight suit and knowing that the additional imbuing weight of a couple LMC points might not be of any benefit where as the additional weight could be put into another area. By this I mean, there is no benefit to imbue LMC where you end up with anything other than, 40, 45, 50 etc.

    Thanks, Katrena
     
  17. Zerbee

    Zerbee Journeyman
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    It is interesting to see that even players who post on Stratics are so uninformed when it comes to game mechanics.. Surprised that people do not know the LMC cap was raised through certain armor conditions, this change was made well over a year ago.
     
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  18. Katrena

    Katrena Sage
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    Question Removed
     
    #18 Katrena, Jun 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  19. Zerbee

    Zerbee Journeyman
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    An example of what? That people aren't aware of certain game mechanics that are over a year old? Read the posts in this threat.
    Makes you wonder how many people actually read patch notes.
     
  20. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Why do I feel like I entered a advanced Calc class at UCLA?
     
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  21. thevro

    thevro Visitor

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    Each point of LMC (or 5 points, if Katrena is right) should be more effective than the previous point because it is percentage based. An easy way to demonstrate this is to ask ourselves how big our 'actual' mana pool is as we increase LMC.

    If we have a character with 20 LMC, then a 10 mana cost spell would be 8, or 80% of its normal mana cost (100% - 20% = 80%, duh!). If the character has 100 mana, then the character's real mana pool would be 100 / 80% (each point of mana only takes up 80% of the space a normal point of mana takes), or 125 mana.

    If we have a character with 40 LMC, then a 10 mana cost spell would be 6, or 60%. A 100 mana character would have 100 / 60% mana, or 166.666666... mana.

    So from 0-20 LMC, we get 25 extra mana, while from 20-40 LMC, we gain ~42 mana. Put another way, 0-20 LMC is a 25% increase in actual mana, while 20-40 LMC is a 33% increase. 40-55 LMC results in another 33% increase despite being only 15 points.

    The problem is that mana costs aren't very granular and small benefits can be rounded off.

    Edit: Graph https://www.desmos.com/calculator/rkng4d6wmq -- as you can see, as LMC (x-axis) gets closer to 100, mana pool (y-axis) gets closer to infinity.
     
    #21 thevro, Jun 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  22. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Almost everything in UO is truncated in the final calculation, not rounded.

    That is why you may not see a difference between small changes, like 50%-54% LMC. You would see the difference for spells taking a large amount of mana to cast, but not low mana spells.
     
  23. thevro

    thevro Visitor

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    Interesting, though it runs contra to what other people have said and doesn't account for the reported behavior of 9.1 calculated mana cost being 10 mana cost in practice. I haven't played since 1999, so I have a lot of testing to do ;). I'm working on billing issues with EA (I have never had more problems trying to give someone my money) though... so it will have to wait.
     
    #23 thevro, Jun 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014