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Anyone else find this a little ridiculous?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MrMiagi, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    http://guide.uo.com/itemproperties_3.html

    The best runic hammer, the valorite hammer has a 85% min intensity and 100% max, and 5 properties.

    The best runic fletching tool, heartwood, has 50% minimum intensity and 100% max, and 4 properties. Wow, no wonder there's so few good bows out there.

    By comparison, the midway runic hammers copper and bronze have the same or better intensity than the top end runic fletching tool, heartwood. These only fall slightly behind the heartwood because they offer 1 less property.

    Does anyone else find it a bit strange that average to midway runic hammers are as good as the grand daddy of all fletcher's tools?
     
  2. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    When you look at all 8 runic smith hammers you can see that the top 4 or top 50% of smith hammers are all better than the best fletching tool.
     
  3. no I dont find it strange at all.

    Heartwood kits allow bows to be crafted with properties or intensities that valorite hammers cannot get, such as hci 25/dci 25/balanced/velocity stacked with another hit spell etc

    imo it balances out rather well between the two compared
     
  4. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    Wow it just keeps getting worse, compare the lowest runic hammer to the lowest fletching tool, the lowest runic hammer has 40 to 100 intensity and the lowest fletching tool has 1 to 50 intensity. Even if the hammer rolls the lowest intensity it's going to almost always beat the highest intensity of the fletching tool.
     
  5. This is because those figures were recently changed for the runic hammers.

    Keep also in mind that you can use special wood to craft a bow. Such special woods will add properties to the crafted bows. And unlike runic hammers, that fifth property can be chosen by using the wood you want (with the exception of heartwood).
     
  6. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    This is because those figures were recently changed for the runic hammers.

    Keep also in mind that you can use special wood to craft a bow. Such special woods will add properties to the crafted bows. And unlike runic hammers, that fifth property can be chosen by using the wood you want (with the exception of heartwood).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The property gained from enhancing can hardly be compared to the 5th property that you gain from using a runic hammer or even a fletching tool, the enhanced property such as 10% SSI from ash is only around 25-33 intensity of what you would get from a runic, so sure you could call it a 5th property, a very low intensity 5th property.
     
  7. Bows have the capability of not only having properties not available on any other weapon, such as Balanced which allows potions to be imbibed while holding a 2 handed weapon, but also at intensities that are not possible with anything else. You won't see any 40 SSI Ornate axes floating around, yet you'll see quite a few heavy crossbows with it.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    On top of what ElRay and Anakena stated, Bows can be effective more than one tile away. All those combined suggest a pretty balanced system.
     
  9. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    I disagree, with a valorite hammer you're certain to get good intensity levels, with a heartwood runic there's a good chance you'll just get crap. Why should crafted melee weapons be guarenteed to have high stats and archery weapons not?
     
  10. Because it's easier to get the Heartwood runic than it is a Valorite runic?...
     
  11. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Because it's easier to get the Heartwood runic than it is a Valorite runic?...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Except you could buy just 1 valorite runic and you have a good chance to make something nice but you could go through 3-4 heartwood runics and get only crap.
     
  12. Tom_Builder

    Tom_Builder Slightly Crazed
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    I would like to see them all have a 100% max intensity, it would make the lower end runic fletching tool worth using. Now they are a waste of time.
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    Except you could buy just 1 valorite runic and you have a good chance to make something nice but you could go through 3-4 heartwood runics and get only crap.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Val hammers cost 2x what a heartwood does because heartwood kits are a lot easier to get. Wether the latest changes have affected that I'd say it's too early to tell.

    I don't know what shard your on but theres definitely a lot more high end bows on atlantic than any other type of weapon.

    Theres also a lot more heartwood kits than there are val hammers.
     
  14. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Except you could buy just 1 valorite runic and you have a good chance to make something nice but you could go through 3-4 heartwood runics and get only crap.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And the gold I spent on a val hammer is enough for 3 heartwood kit because????

    Besides the current UO pvp state, Archers are the more powerful dexers, I dont know where you're from but I definately see much more l33t bows than melee weapons.

    Edit: Oh btw I've been trying to get a Halberd with mods of Balanced + Hit Lighting + Hit Velocity + SSI. I've seem them all on a few bow weapons... and if val hammer is so l33t where's the comparable melee weapon?
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    Bows have the capability of not only having properties not available on any other weapon, such as Balanced which allows potions to be imbibed while holding a 2 handed weapon, but also at intensities that are not possible with anything else. You won't see any 40 SSI Ornate axes floating around, yet you'll see quite a few heavy crossbows with it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    All of the 'one-handed' vs. '2-handed' concepts within UO, and the corresponding ability to either drink-pots or not, plus the whole idea of a 'balanced bow', are UO-specific. They could change the whole thing tomorrow so that all bow-users can drink pots with no problem, and to hell with 'balanced'. Also the idea of bows being able to go up to 40 SSI may indeed not be overpowering considering that other weapons only make it to 30, as the fastest bow has a slower base speed than the fastest melee weapon anyway. In the end its not how the numbers work out, its the total effect it has on the game balance.

    I wonder if all bows should behave as 'balanced' actually, because there's a discrepency right now.

    On my shard, an extreme minority of players have reportedly spent serious amounts of real life money to get these certain, extremely rare balanced bows (usually crossbows, actually) crosssharded over to them. On test shard I tried to make bows like they had, and ran through the equivalent of many heartwood kits, and didn't get one. On production shards they are EXTREMELY rare and are generally not available for sale or aquisition by any means. From what I can tell, if such bows are ever sold, its for real cash in the hundreds of dollars.

    Without those special bows, those people's templates don't even work right. They have to chug pots of practically every type, the template is built around it.

    I literally don't have access to bows like theirs so I cannot make templates like that work the way that theirs do. The result is that their archers are more effective than anything I am allowed to make.

    The extreme rarity of bows that perform like this is essentially unfair. Those guys will be able to kill any archer I ever make under the existing system, they are always under the full influence of potions (probably scripted pot chugging too but that's another topic).

    If I could chug with any bow at all, the availability issue would disappear because that basic type of bow exists everywhere. The issue with the common bows is that they are enhanced loot bows and therefore are never 'balanced'.

    I'm not holding my breath on this one but just saying -- potions and bows - - it's all just computer code and none of it is set in stone, and the implementation right now isn't entirely fair.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree, with a valorite hammer you're certain to get good intensity levels, with a heartwood runic there's a good chance you'll just get crap. Why should crafted melee weapons be guarenteed to have high stats and archery weapons not?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you need to go on test center and burn 15 charges of a val hammer and then burn 15 of a heartwood kit and tell me they are not balanced.

    I can tell you from experience burning both hammers and fletching kits that the bows from a heartwood kit are every bit as good as weapons from a val hammer but the difference is that I can afford to burn heartwood kits all day long yet val hammers will cost me around 4 times the amount of a heartwood kit. So in all reality you get 60 charges of a heartwood kit but only 15 of a val hammer for the price. I think its just fine how it is.
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>

    http://guide.uo.com/itemproperties_3.html

    The best runic hammer, the valorite hammer has a 85% min intensity and 100% max, and 5 properties.

    The best runic fletching tool, heartwood, has 50% minimum intensity and 100% max, and 4 properties. Wow, no wonder there's so few good bows out there.

    By comparison, the midway runic hammers copper and bronze have the same or better intensity than the top end runic fletching tool, heartwood. These only fall slightly behind the heartwood because they offer 1 less property.

    Does anyone else find it a bit strange that average to midway runic hammers are as good as the grand daddy of all fletcher's tools?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've burned through a few heartwood kits and a number of yew ones, and I know someone who burns heartwood kits a lot.

    It's often a disappointing experience, mainly because with the current state of swingspeed, most bows must be in the 35-40 SSI range to be viable PVP weapons. And, it's easy to blow through an entire heartwood kit and get nothing you'd ever consider using. The last one I burned up gave exactly one bow with any runic-caused swing speed boost at all, and even with the ash, the total ssi was 25 (on a composite, and the other mods weren't great, it would have maybe been okay on a shortbow or repeater).

    It's to where I've quit doing that heartwood quest thing for now, and I just use searchuo.com every other day or so to see if a bow I want has popped up for sale. It seems that Heartwood kits are so often just not worth it, with a handful of uses (15) and such high difficulty/cost to get, and the likelihood of the kit producing nothing more than a pile of junk.

    I'm interested in seeing how the lower-level (ash, yew) runic kits work out with the exceptional chance changes to the recipe bows tho.

    Is it just me or are oak kits absolute trash?
     
  18. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree, with a valorite hammer you're certain to get good intensity levels, with a heartwood runic there's a good chance you'll just get crap. Why should crafted melee weapons be guarenteed to have high stats and archery weapons not?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you need to go on test center and burn 15 charges of a val hammer and then burn 15 of a heartwood kit and tell me they are not balanced.

    I can tell you from experience burning both hammers and fletching kits that the bows from a heartwood kit are every bit as good as weapons from a val hammer

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not for PVP... the PVP bows require serious SSI (20 - 40 for shortbows and repeaters, and 35-40 for everything else). The melee PVP weapons seem fairly well balanced without this degree of SSI boost.
     
  19. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree, with a valorite hammer you're certain to get good intensity levels, with a heartwood runic there's a good chance you'll just get crap. Why should crafted melee weapons be guarenteed to have high stats and archery weapons not?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you need to go on test center and burn 15 charges of a val hammer and then burn 15 of a heartwood kit and tell me they are not balanced.

    I can tell you from experience burning both hammers and fletching kits that the bows from a heartwood kit are every bit as good as weapons from a val hammer but the difference is that I can afford to burn heartwood kits all day long yet val hammers will cost me around 4 times the amount of a heartwood kit. So in all reality you get 60 charges of a heartwood kit but only 15 of a val hammer for the price. I think its just fine how it is.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do it on test? No need since I've done it on real. I don't bother making bows anymore because most of what I get is crap.
     
  20. Holy crap you cant be serious. These people spend upwards of 150mil on these bows and your whining because you cant beat them with any bow give me a damn break. I dont have any balanced bows and i do just fine against people with insanely balanced bows.

    Let me guess if i spent 100's of mill on barbed kits to get the best suit in the game you should be able to get it to but less expensive. There are things in this game that some people have that others would love but dont whine about it. Get better on your character instead of whining omg i cant chug a pot.

    Also why the hell does it have to be a script? I have buttons for gheal cure tr ga gstr and apples. Nothing is scripted. It takes so much skill to watch your heal timer and drink a cure before it goes off. Pure ignorance.
     
  21. All the good bows are enhanced, not made.
    Peerless drop amazing bows all the time, so I don't know what you're complainging about. Who cares if you can't craft an uber-bow, you can get them for free as loot, and take your chances enhancing them to ********ADD******** properties.

    Blacksmiths can't add properties, fletchers can. Do we really have to make every trade the same? If so, then allow smiths to add properties like SSI when enhancing a weapon.
     
  22. <blockquote><hr>

    All the good bows are enhanced, not made.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Many are.

    I can't tell which of my bows are crafted vs. enhanced loot, I bought most/all of them.

    But it must be brought up that presently, the crazy-rare, god-like bows that allow the running of a pot-dependent power archer template are crafted, because those are the only ones that allow 'balanced'.

    Also, bow enhancement can be crappy because the bows can blow up instead of enhancing. You can have a 30 ssi heavyx that you really want to get to 40 because that would make the weapon be great, and then it blows up when you go to enhance it. The things that cause the bows to blow up instead of enhance aren't even clear to us, which makes it worse.

    With crafted bows, at least you get that 10% ssi boost in some sort of bow without risking blowing something up.
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    Holy crap you cant be serious. These people spend upwards of 150mil on these bows and your whining because you cant beat them with any bow give me a damn break. I dont have any balanced bows and i do just fine against people with insanely balanced bows.

    Let me guess if i spent 100's of mill on barbed kits to get the best suit in the game you should be able to get it to but less expensive. There are things in this game that some people have that others would love but dont whine about it. Get better on your character instead of whining omg i cant chug a pot.

    Also why the hell does it have to be a script? I have buttons for gheal cure tr ga gstr and apples. Nothing is scripted. It takes so much skill to watch your heal timer and drink a cure before it goes off. Pure ignorance.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Dude is 100% correct here
     
  24. Also you dont get the 10ssi bonus on the bows 100% of the time. Ive burned proly 5-6 heartwood with ash and i constantly get good mods but with no ssi. Even using ash i dont get ssi which is beyond me.

    Dont cry about enhancing. If you dont want to break it then use it as it is. I personally enhance everything. There's no point running around with a weapon you can make better. Then again for some reason i succeed on probably 9-10 bows i try to enhance its sick.
     
  25. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    All the good bows are enhanced, not made.
    Peerless drop amazing bows all the time, so I don't know what you're complainging about. Who cares if you can't craft an uber-bow, you can get them for free as loot, and take your chances enhancing them to ********ADD******** properties.

    Blacksmiths can't add properties, fletchers can. Do we really have to make every trade the same? If so, then allow smiths to add properties like SSI when enhancing a weapon.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You my friend have a deal, lets allow smiths to add 10% SSI to weapons and lets bump fletching runics up to smithing runic levels.
     
  26. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    Let's stop whining about things you perceive as imbalanced.

    Archery is slow to offset the fact that they have some of the hardest hitting RANGED weapons in the game. Also, fletching can add properties whereas smithing can't. It tends to balance out. Heartwood kits used to give FAAAR better bows than val runics before the runic boost. Now you have archers AND dexxers with overpowered weps, not just archers.

    As for these bows being rare, come to Atlantic and see how many godly bows there are. Pretty much every newbie has some combination of 40 ssi 40 hld 40 hit spell balanced xbow.
     
  27. Leurocian VIP
    UO Lead Designer
    Upcoming Crafting Fixes
    #7632235 - 02/18/08
    Hello Everyone,

    We have the following internal crafting fixes queued up for QA to review: (No promises of course. I had to say that )

    - balanced property getting dropped off runic made lightweight shortbows,
    - mystic shortbow dropping the spell channeling -1

    Those two problems in general should no longer happen on any of the bows. They were the same issue where the static property was being added after the runic ones were already chosen.

    - Turned on the ability to make the following bows exceptional along with maker's mark:
    * barbed longbow
    * slayer longbow
    * frozen longbow
    * longbow of might
    * ranger's shortbow
    * lightweight shortbow
    * mystical shortbow
    * assassin's shortbow

    In order to allow for an exceptional chance greater than 0 at GM skill, the success rate and minimum fletching skill have been adjusted.
    Success rate is now 50% (use to be 40%).
    Min fletching is now 70 (use to be 75).
    Exceptional Chance at GM is now 5% (use to be, of course, 0% and not possible).

    We wanted you to know that we are actively investigating and attempting to address some of the issues you all have presented to us.

    Thanks Everyone!

    FoF feb 8 '08
    "Mondain's legacy bowyer/fletcher recipe weapons (non-artifact) have 0% chance of exceptional with 100 fletching. To my understanding, a crafting talisman will not give exceptional chance unless you have at least 1%. Is that true?"

    The reason those recipe weapons have a 0% exceptional chance is <font color=red>because they are considered minor artifacts</font color=red>, and aren't intended to be exceptionally crafted. It's hard-set, rather than a function of their difficulty, so talismans won't help. (It's not a reflection of how talismans work, just a function of those particular items.)

    Now, the argument could be (and has been) made that they're not powerful enough to be worth it without a way to boost their stats. It's certainly something to look into - it's just not technically a bug.
     
  28. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Because it's easier to get the Heartwood runic than it is a Valorite runic?...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is? Funny, I've been trying since it was implemented, and I"ve gotten 2 Yews, that's it. At least with Valorites, you KNOW you're going to get one once other variables are put in place. There's absolutely no proof that I'll ever get a Heartwood FK, unless of course, I miraculously learn to complete quests 23/7 like the others. You know, the one's that say they get them legitimately...
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My friend got two Heartwood Kits today. It isn't that hard. Valorite Hammers are hard. All of you archer fools need to quit whining. You're never going to be dexxers, sorry. Bows are overpowered as it is, and they don't need any help. When my archer hits someone with a concussion, my bow easily does 35-45 a hit, more as stats separate, and that's without even including hit spells or velocity. And I use a bow I looted from a 'coon. Next?
     
  30. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    How about oak runic fletching tools? These are useless, you have no chance of making anything useful with them, so why even have them ingame? At least with the lowest smith runic you have a chance at max intensity. When 90% of what you make with even a heartwood runic is useless, what chance do you have at making something useful with some of the lower end runics? No chance.

    Runic intensity level chances should be equal for all crafted items, it makes no sense atall to have the lowest fletching runic 1 to 50% and the lowest smith runic as 40-100%. It would make sense to those of you with biased views I guess.

    Here's an interesting comparsion, the lowest level smith runic, dull copper has intensitys of 40-100%, even a yew fletching tool only has 40-90%, so hey look at that, the lowest level smith runic hammer has better intensity ranges than the 2nd best fletching tool. How's that for being out of whack?

    Infact, only Heartwood runic intensity level only just beats the lowest level smith runic intensity since it has 10% higher low end intensity but the same max. Pretty saddening.
     
  31. MrMiagi

    MrMiagi Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    My friend got two Heartwood Kits today. It isn't that hard. Valorite Hammers are hard. All of you archer fools need to quit whining. You're never going to be dexxers, sorry. Bows are overpowered as it is, and they don't need any help. When my archer hits someone with a concussion, my bow easily does 35-45 a hit, more as stats separate, and that's without even including hit spells or velocity. And I use a bow I looted from a 'coon. Next?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You looted it? More evidence as to why fletching runic crafting is in need of a boost, they beefed smith runic crafting because most people looted better from monsters, now they need to do the same for fletching.

    As for your friend, he is very lucky then, that's if he really did get two in one day. Valorite hammers go for twice as much as heartwood tools do on my server, and it's no wonder why when on average they give twice as high intensity levels.