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Anyone know what is happening with this stuff?

Discussion in 'UO Vice vs Virtue' started by JC the Builder, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I would really like a reason to login and play UO again. I know a lot of other people would like one also.

    You know what else was supposed to have a phase 2? Factions. But it was never a priority. Just imagine if factions had even some additions throughout the years. Even if they added only one thing per year that would have been 14 things by now! But instead it got nothing until 2008, then we got faction artifacts which were hugely popular and participation exploded again. Unfortunately history repeated itself was never followed up on and things went dead again.

    Now here we are today, without a serious PVP system. It is truly a tragedy for people who enjoy PVP and all players in general.
     
  2. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Here is the current results from a topic made yesterday on what may be the only active UO PVP forum left in existence:

    fun pvp poll.jpg
     
  3. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I have lots of projects, in game and out. Too many really. Mainly writing just to let you know you are not completely alone here so:

    1) Eleven total respondents is hardly a mandate. I'm pretty sure our alliance on Origin can field that many at a time.

    2) To the best of my, possibly antiquated, knowledge overall participation remains greater than it was for factions at its wind down, both in total number of people (players) and man hours per week across the shards.

    3) The PvP community of UO really shot itself in the foot with the attempted faction revamp. As flawed as that was from a development standpoint, the overwhelming negativity of at least half, if not much more, of the community banished almost all of us from having any kind of serious voice at the table. We are still recovering, and, I say all that to say please do not unzip your fly while facing into the wind. The team has some objectives, modest as they are, for this calendar year and I hope further exploration and improvement of this new system is an active part of that.

    Respectfully,
    V
     
  4. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    So because players complained loudly about the proposed changes, that ruined PVP forever? Then the developers went ahead and did it anyway and it has turned out poorly.

    Maybe there is more participation now than Factions in 2013 but that doesn't mean people are enjoying it. There is no other alternatives on official UO. So now people are leaving in droves and those remaining are forced to put up with Vice vs Virtue.

    It is quite evident that what the developers want and what UO PVPers want are two different things. There isn't even anyone around willing to post on Stratics about it anymore, as evidenced by this forum.
     
  5. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I was fine with VvV until it's latest patch which extinguished any fun for thieves. I removed detect hidden from my template and abandoned VvV.

    Personally I believe VvV had real potential. However too many non participants were complaining about their inability to reap rewards with out the risk in Felucca.
     
  6. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not sure about your first point. I certainly don't think pvp is ruined forever. What I do believe is that the pvp community as a whole, and in general, showed they could not communicate with the development team like adults. And therefore they lost the bargaining power they might have had.

    All of fel is still open. So, I see options. I just don't see any other organized systems of activity at the game level.

    The last statement is completely untrue. Unless you do not want to be able to log in and find action. A system that would allow groups to log in and find a hotspot of activity is exactly what this system was created for, and further there are systems built in to encourage participation. I won't say that it is working as intended and therefore a user error on your part. I have been out for a month or so, and really don't have a lot of hands on. I do know I have played since that publish, and on a very lightly populated shard we had a team in the field and opponents that we were not in control of and we got points and they got points and we fought and I had a good time.

    Is it perfect? No.

    Is it everything I would like to see in the system? No.

    Did they say they are still working on it and looking for ways that make sense and appeal to player to expand the system? Yes.

    I don't think much has happened on the company side since Christmas gifts went live. I'm still running around in some pretty crappy suits, so I am content to work on me until the Devs have something for us to give feedback on.

    Oh, I do have a thief. They are in VvV. I don't run them much because others are happy to do that in my group, and we all get points when the sigils are stolen and returned so I don't have to feel like I am "missing out".
     
  7. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Plenty of people have provided constructive feedback to the developers on group PVP. There were over 1,000 posts including a 500 post thread when they were trying to revamp factions in 2010. Those same issues we have been talking about for 14 years have yet to be addressed and the developers are just completely ignoring it every time it comes up.

    Where are the rewards for participating in group PVP? The whole misguided Faction revamp last time is what Vice vs Virtue is today. Both completely lack real incentives to participate.

    Vice vs Virtue is basically Trammy PVP. There, I said it. I'm not going to hold back anymore. It would be totally fine if this was something to help introduce people to PVP. But as the flagship group combat system in the game it is garbage. Everyone knows it. The original design was that capture the shrine stuff, which people hated. Then it morphed into this capture the town mini-game, which people hate slightly less.

    Why is it so hard to give PVPers what they want? We want a competitive PVP system with rewards. A treasure hunter can get all kinds of cool stuff out of a treasure chest. Crafters get Bulk Order Deeds and now Traders Quests. What do PVPers get? A terrible PVP system that might get some changes in the next 12 years.
     
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  8. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Okay so then the question becomes, if this is pvp light, what is pvp? Ages ago we used to do storm the keep as a planned activity. Big teams!

    Most towns lack serious choke points, but there was a lot of complaint about choke points at faction bases. What makes real pvp real? Or is it the magnitude of the reward that makes it real? Powerscrolls used to be plenty of reward for spawning and raiding both. I hope you will pardon me if you have expressed these in a specific way before, maybe a link?

    I'm not opposed to more reward with more risk, I just don't see a reason to blow it up here in early Jan because it isn't everything we want it to be right this minute.

    And I'm in that thread, quite a bit.
     
  9. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    PVP is real when it is fun. Currently it isn't fun.

    What makes group PVP real? When you can go out with your friends and have fun. First there was Order vs Chaos. Then there was Factions. Then there was Champion Spawns. Now there is nothing. People stayed online for an entire day to guard sigils. Guilds had rotations scouting champion spawns. You can't plan squat around Vice vs Virtue and you don't get anything out of it.
     
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  10. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Okay that makes sense. Its the long term strategy element that is missing. And that is true. It isn't in there, yet.

    I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the days long ordeal of guarding sigils is not something I am prepared to commit to at this stage in my life. I regard that as a positive change. I don't think I'm all alone in that either.
     
  11. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I am not saying that we need 24 hour guarding of anything. It just shows how competitive and strongly players were drawn to Factions. Compared to what we have with Vice vs Virtue it is just a joke. There is nothing here for a player to become invested in. Arena combat appears to be the exact same thing. I've been back 3 months and I haven't seen one post or anyone who discusses Arena combat. It is all so bland and lacks the correct elements to draw people into it.

    I made a post yesterday asking what seems to be the most unbalanced thing in PVP and there has been some actual discussion. Probably the highest quality feedback given on PVP in years now: http://www.hot-guild.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28185

    Orc Brutes are really unfair and take the place of an actual skill of Animal Taming.
    Spellweaving healing spell makes you unkillable. This has always been known and just unbalanced.