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apple timer? whats everyone think?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by SixUnder, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    i liked it to 30 seconds...

    now i dont like it to 30 seconds...

    if you dont have chivalry, or a mystic with you man is it a pain in the a@@.

    what were we at 8 seconds, almost 4x longer...

    after a good bit of testing of the pub i think it needs reduced.

    what about everyone else?

    my main reasoning is, with all the power given to spells and curses now, once you eat a apple in a couple seconds your recursed again. and then you cant do anything, specially if your on a character who doesnt have the ability to cast defensive spells.

    You can survive it, but man.. as much as peeps spam spell plague, blood oath, mortal, etc. its crazy..

    just my .02
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Maybe 15-20 would be better.
     
  3. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    im doin pvm and i dont like it, most of the stuff i fight spams debuffs. ill live like i did before the apples, but this should have been a pvp change only. im sure its too late but i would have been cool with a 16sec. pause.
     
  4. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    The apple timer was 15 seconds. They doubled it.
    I think the devs were thinking more 1v1 fights and less outnumbered ganks when they put this change in. 15 seconds was fine.
     
  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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  6. I think 30 seconds is good, most people want 45, But i can live with 30..

    I wish apples would only remove 1 curse at a time that would of been really slick, I dont like the idea of being bleed spam till someone can apple off their strangle corpse curse spell plague or whatever they have on them...

    Plus I am pretty sure there is a soft cap for dex, so if you stack 129 dex instead of 119 you can become curse proof for the bandage timer to hit,
     
  7. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I think That's the problem, in PVM
     
  8. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I think the 30sec apple timer is acceptable outside of mortal and blood oath spam. add something separate to remove those and im sold.
     
  9. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    what about strangle and corpse skin?

    i mean if your corpsed...

    and a scribe mage get a exp fs off screen on ya.. foget about it, hehe

    strangle is the one i have most trouble with cause i forget about it, and with the new 30 sec timer i really forget about it. so next thing ya know i got no stam and get hit hard with a pain spike.

    strangle creeeps up on ya.. kinda like the way blood oath is.

    hey how about a fruit or something to remove necro curses? (only)
     
  10. from the perspective of a caster in PvP, i love the apple change. i feel that if people wish to remove curses, they will now have to rely on dedicated skills, rather than items that anybody can use. don't want to be bombarded by debuffs and curses? get chivalry or mysticism or even resisting spells.

    when it comes down to it, apples and potions are crutches in PvP.
     
  11. Strangle should not be removed at all, plus its stam based. So if u drink a red pot ur looking at like 15 hp, not very much... Corpse skin.. well most pvpers have corpse proof suits, most of us tend to give up resist so we can squeeze a bit more out of our suit, Kinda what u get for doing that...
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Strangle is irritating but it is work around able (this would probably be 3rd most hated after mortal/blood oath)

    as for corpse, i build fire resist and poison to 75 (basically one less mod across my whole suit) to only allow corpse to take me to 60, same as curse.
     
  13. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Well said, just think there is an issue with mortal then or blood oath spamming.

    if those 2 items just had some sort of real nice timer between uses, then everything is golden.
     
  14. not to go too far off topic, but i agree mortal strike could use some sort of timer, or using it consecutively should reduce the duration of it's effect. for example:

    first MS - 6 seconds
    second MS - 4 seconds
    third MS - 2 second

    i'm not too sure how the timers are working right now, but players seem to get away with keeping mortal strike up longer than it seems it should.
     
  15. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    So you obviously dont use ANY potions in pvp. Thats awesome.

    Cuz if you do you for any reason(and dont have alchemy ofc)you are a serious hypocrite.

    And of course your caster also doesnt use a mage weapon right? Cuz that would also make you a gigantic hypocrite as you are not dedicating a weapon skill there.

    Just saying...
     
  16. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I'm a pvm-er too and i agree: timers re a nightmare. "Overdose" should be the only "timer", in pvm (like eating and being stuffed).

    I don't use apples because there is no point in it: you eat one and you are instantly cursed-strangled again. I carry greater confusion blasts but i don't really know why: throw one and chances are you will be re-targeted within the next two milliseconds. Same for invisibility: due to the delayed damage retarget it is rare that against a group of spellcaster mobs one potion works.

    And let's not talk about the absurdity of alchemy and enanche potions at use site (like a drug that works best if you are a cardiologist).
     
  17. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    in pvm apples are now USELESS.. :(

    they should have just taken them out of the game completely.. they only work for 1 or maybe 2 seconds and your right back where you started, debuffed and recursed..

    just like i predicted.. they should have made a timer on curses and debuffs... but no they dont listen to anyone.


    i really dont even see how these changes balanced PVP even.. all it made was a new dominant temp and screwed up pvm.
     
  18. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Well, screwed might be exagerated, let's say that we have one option less.

    In any case i must say that current designers are working really hard to convince me they have no clue on what this game is about.
     
  19. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    ppl used apples in pvm? what a waste. About the only thing i ever used an apple for in pvm was against anything that could potentially blood oath me.
     
  20. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    I think 30 seconds is juuuuust fine:)
     
  21. No, I do not use potions. I use my healing stone from mysticism. I do use a mage weapon, but to me that's not the same thing as having a dependancy on items that do not require the player to dedicate skill points to in order to use.

    Its clear this game has become item vs item, but where possible, the developers should limit items that do not require a dedication to skill points to use.
     
  22. As far as PVM goes, anything they can do to make it more difficult to solo hard bosses the better. Hopefully this encourages more group hunting because most everything is soloable at this point, besdies the newest bosses.

    Having a dedicated healer while you hunt simplfies many issues.
     
  23. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    lol
    no offense but if your going to call people using potions a crutch, most of us since begining of game... please dont come on here posting as a mystic and talk about your healing stone.

    if using pots is a crutch, you use 2 crutchs and a wheelchair.
     
  24. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    ya i hear ya, mine is corpse proof. you know that, i just forget about the necro long term curses cause they seem to last forever ya know. Been debating gm chiv on all my templates just for it. Doubt i do but it was a idea. what a waste of skill points though:/
     
  25. healing stone is a crutch, yet i have to dedicate 240 skill points to get its full benefit of just acting like a potion that anybody can use? that's the dumbest argument i've ever heard.

    the only people who are crying about these changes are those who do not invest ample skill points in defensive abilities.
     
  26. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Yeah, i read they are doing exactly this with the new high-seas boss. And that shows how poor is their insight of the game. In fact they should go the opposite way. All the encounters should be soloable by any master in his fighting discipline so that players will stop searching for the next template and start playing their characters because they like to be [an archer, a tamer, a warrior, a sampire, a mage, a ninja, a samurai...]. Then they should use rewards to gather people that wants to stick together: the more people involved in some event, the higher the chance to get this mytical "drop".

    And just in case someone from the sky reads this: no, you don't nerf your players. You may boost mobs if you're really short of ideas, but you don't nerf players.
     
  27. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Damn it! We actually have to feel the effects of peoples abilities now!

    In all honestly though it's good, but other things need to be modified. Like the duration of a mages curse. Curse is HUGE now (not saying it never was just more so now)and it's the LONGEST lasting status effect. It even out lasts a poison duration considering a player doesn't try to cure it. It should be about 50% of its current duration.
     
  28. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I'm not a huge fan of the apple change. Either increase the timer, or make apples have a chance to fail. Both was excessive.

    I was fighting some extremely fast necro mage the other day. Here is how the fight went. Omen, weaken, omen, curse, omen, blood oath, omen, corpse, strangle. Took me 6 apples to actually remove the curse. Then he omen/curse/omen/oath/strangle again. Being on a dexer the only spell I could really have a chance to disrupt was the strangle with how fast he was.
     
  29. when i'm going up against necromancers, i always try to have 120 resist. it's almost a must and cuts down a lot of their spell duration and damage over time.
     
  30. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    the character I mention above is 120 resist
     
  31. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    The fact remains the put the apples in the game to balance the above scenario. The present dev team chose to change the way apples work and completely unbalanced the game by doing so.
    Dear Dev team... PLEASE give the previous dev teams some credit.
     
  32. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    enchanted oranges and bananas are comin' ... you'll see.
     
  33. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    the day they make it so the WHOLE group gets the crim, or tangle, or whatever special item the boss drops is the day i start inviting people along..


    if they dont want things to be solod, then they should make it worth bringing more then one person.

    even the new bosses suck with a group.. take 4 or 5 people to do them and all you end up getting is some gold and a few junk items..
     
  34. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    This statement does not really work though Flutter. The Dev team introduced the apples with a 2 minute timer, so saying they put it in and it balanced it, and this dev team has taken the balance away is not entirely accurate, sure "a" Dev team did in fact lower the timer, but no one really thought it was high enough. There is only a few items that need to be addressed in some way, either through the introduction of a new item, or timers, or by having skills actually have an effect on certain things, either way the apple timer is fine for most situations, you should be subjected to curses at times.

    Ok so I would not be opposed to bringing back the old timer, and making it so 1 apple = 1 spell effect randomly removed. So I have now given 4 new solutions to the 1 problem.
     
  35. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    No, there's already enough "if" or "might" factors in pvp. No need to add more things that you "might" be able to rely on.
     
  36. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Not really an if or might, simply a 1 = 1 trade off. If you prefer it to be the "last effect" or the "first effect" I would be perfectly fine with that as well, but as stated already none of it is iffy, random != "if" or "might" I mentioned nothing about it being able to fail, and having it remove one effect at random would be as useful as knowing it can only remove the last effect placed or the first effect placed, in either case a lower timer with a 1 = 1 is just as acceptable as the current timer, or any of the other things I mentioned.
     
  37. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Would it be acceptable if there was a chance for everyone to get one? I mean....I am not entirely sure having it be a guaranteed drop is the best idea, but a chance for it to spawn in anyone's pack, including Multiple drops per boss is not such a bad idea. It might even be ok to have multiple drops guaranteed if the drop rate remained.
     
  38. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    you dont have to dedicate anything. you choose that template.

    get in rock form, then your immune to everything but a gm?

    your not using all of your templates, you dont have ep, and you prolly dont even carry pots like most mystics cause healing stone, and cleansing winds is so powerful.

    make a macro called arch cure, pick up healing, add chiv to your template, carry pots, there are so many ways around it.
     
  39. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    :thumbup1::thumbup1:
     
  40. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    you can have 120 resist all you want.

    it does not matter whenevery other spell is omen or one of the oodles of curses in the game.

    a apple every 30 sec gives you no chance to defend against those curses being cast on you. you cant evade them or block them anything. with the timer at 30 seconds just have to assume your going to omen cursed 8 ways from sunday every fight.

    just not balanced.
     
  41. Balinor of Pk?

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    The main problem is that people who normally post on stratics get heard because they care enough to goto the dev chats, while pvpers are out pvping and having fun. So we get screwed. Every time. The apples were just fine the way they were. They should drop the timer back down and leave it how it is for removing. That would be fine by me.
     
  42. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I agree. And obviously I am one of the people who post on stratics too much.
    +1
     
  43. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I found the solution to the problem!!

    Now while people are wasting all their time and mana re-cursing you, kill them and steal all their stuff.

    It's worked for me so far at least.
     
  44. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I don't have a problem with 30s. 15s was definitely too low. Maybe 25 and no fails would be okay though.

    It does make the EO blood oath and EO strangle spam more powerful.. but you probably shouldn't be dying from that anyways.
     
  45. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Cmon now Six.. you're a DP dexer and you wanna talk balance.

    I agree to an extent, but i think modifications need to be made 2 a handful of curses, not the 30s apple timer.
     
  46. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    Just my 2 cents but this whole forum is always filled with people who disagree with anything they add to game.

    Just my 2 cents, you cant please everyone...

    Also it seems they didnt do to well, because the normal cryers are on here posting about how much the new pub "sucks".

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  47. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    Your using your mage weapon as a crutch like you so boldly pointed out about the potions...

    Hypocrite? :bowdown:


    I would say that you want to have your cake and eat it too.. You seem to have that holyier than thou attitude....

    Its ok for me to use an item on my template as an advantage but how dare you?! :gun:


    How much skill have you dedicated to using a mage weapon so you wont get hit everytime by a melee?
     
  48. i don't think a mage weapon falls into this category. it's a item, yes, but one that only someone who has invested 120 skill points of magery in can benefit from.

    on the other hand, apples and potions, are items that everybody can use, which is why there is a restriction on how powerful they are. the developers obviously felt this way too, seeing as both potions and apples got the nerfbat this patch.
     
  49. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Let's keep to generalizations and keep personal attacks out of it please.
     
  50. chad

    chad Sage
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    It sure is a hard knock life having to deal with people actually being able to use their abilities! Isn't that the general argument for poisoning being okay? Or how about "cast cure"? Well, with the same logic, cast remove curse if you don't like it. There's more than enough ways to combat anything in this game. Don't be so sub-par that you can't adapt. This apple change is one of the best things to happen to the game in years.