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Are in-game casinos ethical establishments?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by EvilPixieWorks, Dec 8, 2011.

?

What say you?

  1. Casinos should be banned.

    14 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. I have no opinion either way.

    15 vote(s)
    17.9%
  3. They are legitimate game businesses.

    51 vote(s)
    60.7%
  4. I don’t play UO anymore, I just like to post for posting sake.

    4 vote(s)
    4.8%
  1. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    A curious question.

    Not too long ago, it seamed just about any house that had a lotto vendor was seen as running a scam to relieve the gullible of their money. I’m not saying ALL were like this, but as a golden rule… being an establishment owner, these have always been forbidden for the bad reputation they draw. Now gold isn't worth even near as much as it use to be… but now it's not the lotto vendors… it's establishments dedicated to gambling.

    Honestly, I’ve never been to one… not wanting to get mixed up with questionable activities, but it seems to me if they were operating in real life, they would get shut down by the police. hehe.

    So… forget the official rules, what do you think as a player?
     
  2. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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  3. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    Sorry… every time a poll is posted, someone always complains an option is not listed. It's like something you can GAMBLE on! lol

    And we didn’t need your advertisement posted to sway the voting. :talktothehand:

    This question was actually based on a conversation with someone on staff. Some support… some don’t. I don’t. :blushing:
     
  4. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I voted for legitmate business option.

    What players do and want to do with their gold is their choice. Even if that means dropping million gold checks in the game around the banks. Which I have done before :)

    So if a player wants to gamble their gold pixels away that is their choice. If another player wants to run a gambling establishment and relieve the other players of their gold pixels it's their right. Thats if is legal and the player is on the up and up. Now if the player was purposing scamming then I would suggest no. Kind of hard to really prove they are or not scamming.

    Gold isn't worth crap anymore so I wouldn't even understand why players would want to run gambling establishments besides the thrill of it.

    Just my opinion :)
     
  5. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Does anyone really care when its a game with virtual currency. I find it really hard to believe this has even been asked
     
  6. Rupert Avery

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    I think it can be fun... and should be allowed but.. it can be dangerous as well gambling is a legitimate sickness when abused so should not be taken lightly....
     
  7. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Now, now Kayne. Players are allowed to discuss anything that may perk their interests or topics that they feel should be discussed. I figure a reporter would know that :) I agree it's not a major game issue or game ending topic but it's still about UO :p

    I feel the same about virtual currency but I would not try to stifle the topic. It isnt hurting anyone :) Plus if it gets out of hand it will get locked by the mods. :)
     
  8. Rupert Avery

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    Agreed! :)
     
  9. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    My apologies. It was not intended to sway the voting either way. I was only using it to make the point that not all casinos can be lumped into one basket for me personally. I know we have had ones on Atlantic that were nothing but a scam fest in the past. Thankfully those are eventually shut down when the "market" figures it out, and they no longer frequent the place.
     
  10. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Considering that the designers polluted the game with the revolting chicken fights casinos should be perfectly legitimate. As a matter of fact they could then complete the work introducing brothels.
     
  11. I have seen other Gambling establishments, and have been scammed by them, it always seems to be people trying to make fast buck in game. If you came to our Casino, and Night club Museum you would realize this is not your average UO Casino. Last week for a grand prize we gave away a blessed Crimson Cintures and other gold prizes. This weekend Santa is coming to our night club, and he is giving away 20 million gold. We also run Slot machines that act like these lotto vendors you spoke of, but only myself and the owner of the Casino (Ace) Operate them. We do this to ensure that a winning key is placed on them at all times. We also have a gold board where you can see the people who have won on them.
    Other casinos I played at always operated at an 80% winning to the house, which I thought was very harsh. Also it was like they would move you to play like cattle. Got the gold, play play play, out of gold, Next!!
    At the Golden Fang Casino, we are and will always be Role Players. We are and have been in the ARPC, and many people in the Atlantic Roleplaying Community know who we are. We run a fair business, our dealers have great personalities, and most of all we give back, from winning High roller pieces in the High Rollers Club, to The raffles and other things we give back. Is it a gamble yes, but our odds are just about as good as yours. I have lost 17 million one night, but I really don't care. Im not doing this for the gold. I am doing this to make a Player run establishment on Atlantic like no other. I have even told people who come in and lose a lot to stop, or bet smaller. I want people to come for the fun, not to strike it big. We consider this our best quality.
    As for these other establishments, my advice is this, Check who is running it, make sure before you buy something from them that it is legit, remember it is a gamble, and the game has many scammers trying to make easy gold on people who might think they could win. It happens all the time in game.
    But I feel if you saw how we ran our establishment, the people who have walled out with millions, the chicken fights we hold, and the night club that hosts shows and food to buy and souvenirs, you will realize that so much time, effort and dedication was put into this. What fun would it be if you can't win at the game you are playing, or the houses odds are so ridiculous that you feel cheated. We took great time, care and brought people over to test these games before we made them public to our gamblers.
    Testing is key, to make sure you have a chance to walk away with some gold. I hope this answered some of your questions, and please feel free to contact me thru PM and I can give you a grand tour.
    I am also Ex- Military, like Ace is, A family man, I also have casinos near by my home about 30 miles away and are legal so no cops but, I dont gamble in real life, *smiles* Its fun on the game, but we also make sure we get good people in our casino. Its not for everyone.

    The Golden fang Casino
    "Like no other Casino in Ultima"
     
  12. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    If players had tools to run casino-like establishments (other then dice) which ensured that someone had a chance at winning, people wouln't have to worry about reputation.

    An RNG-governed (yes, I know how crappy the UO RNG is) slot machine could be coded which would require an establishment to put in X amount of gold for winners to start. When the gold was used up, the machine goes inactive. Heck, this could even become somewhat of a gold sink with 1/4th to 1/3rd of the gold gambled going poof as "taxes."

    Casinos in UO should be very, very low-priority though...


    A virtual currency which many people spend real money to purchase from other players. Gambling addiction is far more common than people want to admit...
     
  13. temu

    temu Lore Keeper
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    I always loved the attempts at in-game casinos. I think the trick to having fun as a customer is to approach gambling as silly fun. There's no sense in thinking you're going to make money there. On the contrary, I'm assuming players hardly break even most of the time.

    The fun part was joking with the employees and other patrons, meeting new people, and being goofy. It's hard for me to imagine anyone having a real issue with a casino unless they were just straight up shady and robbing people somehow.

    Some of the most fun I had with gambling was right at the West Britain bank. There was a trusted individual on Great Lakes who liked to host a simple dice game. Won some, lost some. Had a lot of laughs.

    So, I would say in-game casinos are just fine.
     
  14. Decadence

    Decadence Lore Keeper
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    I know that you jumped on Kylie about his “advertisement” which was actually a ***review***. However, when you are bringing up an argument over the ethics of gambling a couple days before a HUGE planned event by a gambling player run establishment, it sort of brings the Golden Fang Casino into this subject in a BIG WAY.

    Plus you asked the question, “Are in-game casinos ethical establishments?”; and Kylie responded with a review on an establishment that Kylie does deem as ethical, being the Golden Fang Casino.

    I think that what makes Ultima Online such a wonderful game, is they provide a world, and let you establish communities and play with such versatile options. There are no games that seem to allow as much choice in play style, as Ultima Online. If players go to establishments where the odds are they will lose, they will lose interest, fun and money, and move on. Player establishment stops having customers, and goes out of business.

    At the Golden Fang Casino, rules are written in rulebooks throughout the casino. You know the rules, you know the dice odds, there is nothing shady or behind the scenes going on. The casino also provides entertainment as well, and no one is forced to gamble, people can just come and act, and join the festivities, as there are lots going on including skits.

    So in answer to your question, I believe there are some ethical establishments, and will stand behind the Golden Fang Casino.
     
  15. clearly this depends on the person running the establishment.

    :next:
     
  16. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    as long as establishments Are ethical, I say why not, as long as it keeps the game within the bounds of it's ratings. I never liked the lotto vendors, as the odds change each buy, sometimes drastically. What I spend at a casino, or similar, I divide by the hours i'm there - that's my cost per hour for the 'entertainment'. I don't gamble, but i voted legitimate.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Perfectly legitimate business.

    It's up to the player to decide if they wish to partake of the casino at hand and also up to the player to protect themselves from "games" in which they can be scammed.

    Let the Free Market rule.
     
  18. Kralock

    Kralock Guest

    I dont see any problem with it at all, as a matter of fact, I dont see as a problem IRL, ppl want to gamble why not? Some make money to play with, let them play, though its not the best of investments, we know the house has to make money after all.

    I can also say the The Golden Fang, is ran on the up and up, having never been scammed myslef, and the staff offer a warm and welcome gambling casino with lush deco and all the trimming just as if you were in Vegas with a UO tilt.

    I cant tell how many places are scammers but they wont last long if they do, so why is this an issue for anyone lol

    are they ethical IDK but ethics and UO are hardly best friends.
     
  19. tuuvaak

    tuuvaak Guest

    i heard about golden fang through a friend and i actually reactivated my account (not a fun process, thanks new account system) JUST to try them out. i live about 20 mins from Atlantic City, NJ IRL so i'm a little bit 'into' gambling =)

    it rules. i've blown some gold but its fun. they spent a LOT of gold to set that place up, it really is fantastic to behold. running a joint like that is not easy, and they are legit.

    i am sure there are some scammers afoot at other places on other servers. it happens. one should always be careful of who they're trading checks to. that being said, GF is both legit and hilariously fun. i highly recommend you come check them out saturday nights if you're around. the place explodes, dozens of people. its a trip!
     
  20. SunWolf

    SunWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    This casino, from everything I have seen and listened in as they designed it and run it, isn't a scam in anyway. I listen to them as they talk and check and recheck all thier slot machines to make sure they are correct. The table dice games, they actualy listen to the players and adjust things accordingly but do try to keep it a slight favor into the house's favor. Now, the dealers are other players who wish to deal and go through a class to do so and run thier tables their own way. But still have to follow the guidelines laid out for them.
    Anyway that is my two cents into it. The slot machines, mistakes can happen with them maybe though, but I have not heard of one as of yet unless I missed it.
     
  21. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    It isn't a question I have any strong feelings about. The "Teen" rating for UO might be an issue for some people. However, since we're not talkiing about RL money, I don't see the harm in it as long as the players running the casino are honest.
     
  22. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I don't think anybody cares about the rating of UO - there is plenty of stuff that goes on UO by the players that would keep UO at it's old 'Mature" rating.
    That's why the disclaimer about in-game actions applies. EA doesn't care anyways - some of their biggest selling games are Mature-reated.
     
  23. Gawin

    Gawin Guest

    Many a moons ago there were brothels on many shards till they got shut down.
     
  24. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Don't forget the occasional unclothed character brazenly soliciting at the then-busy banks.

    Casinos are definitely tamer than some things we've seen in UO!
     
  25. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    And the Sex Story books, maybe short lived?
     
  26. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I just poked around The Golden Fang. To be honest, I wish I could recreate such a place on Siege. It is decorated in an over the top sort ambiance you would expect from a fine gambling hall. Truly spectacular and worth a visit even if you are not a regular Atlantic player.

    I met some of the staff. The were very gracious and welcoming. I even scored 1.5 million there. *smiles*
     
  27. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    That would be something to see. Talk about nervous dealers :D
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles* We will see... Siege is not nearly so dangerous as some think.
     
  29. rieley

    rieley Guest

    ****However, when you are bringing up an argument over the ethics of gambling a couple days before a HUGE planned event by a gambling player run establishment, it sort of brings the Golden Fang Casino into this subject in a BIG WAY*********Quoted

    Seriously? The timing of this poll is just not proper.

    This insinuating luna vendors, bazaar vendors, players that live in Fel, etc are all unreputable or cheating is not right. Thank you Golden Fang Casino for planning player events, wish there were more creative ways to mingle in UO.
     
  30. Totally Legit.
    Selling Items could be considered a scam too.

    Word of mouth and reputation make the casinos or lottos hit or miss.

    Play where you feel safe.

    There is an inherent problem with lotto, grab bags... once the prize is gone it is gone.

    So you are pulling from nothing. Slots in a real casino always have prize pay-off available.

    My solution player crafted casino items. Slot machine, roulette. The owners have to stock them with gold. If payoff gold runs out... machine won't work.
     
  31. Golden Fang is well designed and very cool.... highly creative.
     
  32. I agree with this sentiment. When you go into a RL casino, chances are you are going to walk out with less than you walked in with. If you can't deal with that, then don't gamble! At least you don't have that cigarette smoke to deal with in-game.

    If an in-game casino is built and run without any exploits, who cares? OH, the probably the people who lost in-game gold is all.
     
  33. kleos

    kleos Guest



    I have "no opinion" regarding it being in the game.

    Posing it as an ethical question, my opinion is very strong: keep your ethics to yourself.
     
  34. It may be hard to believe, but our casino is not based around making gold. We really enjoy serving people and creating a place where people can have fun. We have worked hard to make sure our slots are always working correctly and table games are fair. We take much of our profits and give them back to the player through raffles, giveaways, ect. Some events such as the chicken fights tend to loose money but we still do it because we love watching everyone have a good time. Even when I lost 22mil at my dice table one night I still ended the night happy knowing I created a fun experience for our players. We love what we do here and as long as everyone is enjoying themselves, we will continue to run The Golden Fang Casino.
     
  35. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    To all: This question has nothing to do with any one named establishment… it's all of them. It's the idea in general. A discussion that started in game that I thought would be entertaining to share with a bigger base of the community.

    Auction Houses once didn’t exist in game. I will be the first to admit they can be rather boring… and I actually do fall asleep at the computer taking part, but that’s just not the point. Issues pop up… not all of them run smooth. Bottom line is you get something for your gold, if you win.

    Game Show style events. I have never actually been to one, honestly. I hear they give away gold and prizes to people in the peanut gallery. Fun for all. Good for them.

    It seems, on average, your younger player wants easy money… no work, no play, bank-sitting… begging from all us older vets. Frankly, it's a trend I would love to see turned around. Begging from vets day in and day out should be considered “harassment” and reportable. hehe. Will it happen? Not a shot.


    Ethical wise:

    “Keep your ethics to yourself.” Very ignorant considering the reason I opened this discussion was to see what everyone thought about the topic. Why even hang around these boards?

    Not long ago… the number one sport for Fel based PKs was to see how they could trick new players to enter Fel so they could be murdered and robbed. Do you think that was ethical… or was that harassment? As far as I see it, it just sent newer players into thinking of not paying for the next month service.

    Gold isn't worth what it used to be… and nothing is being done about it, within reason. That’s not really the issue here. This sure isn't a case of someone scamming something worth over 100m gold a pop to 100 people. That’s happened on Atlantic before, a couple years ago… ethics or not, the staff doesn’t exactly take a policing roll, so the best thing you can do is get the word around. “Knowledge is Power.”
     
  36. dupapa

    dupapa Journeyman
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    ahmen to that!
     


  37. Im not sure I understand this Pixie, you say this has nothing to do with our establishment, or any one establishment, but all of them? If that's the case it does include us. I think we are all getting way to deep into this. This is only a game, and if you don't want to gamble, you don't gamble. If you don't like to be Pked, don't go to Fell. We do a lot of things in game, that I know most of us would never even try to do in real life. This is a fantasy based game. To ask if it is ethical and put a poll about it is defiantly your right, and I will not attack you, or your idea about where it comes from.
    What I think we should just say is that Casinos are a risk, you can lose money, and it may not be for you. But the poll clearly shows people want them, and do like them. I just don't understand what this post was meant to do? You said up top you do not like them, you said I believe I don't, on your third post and I respect that. But I have been playing since 1997, and there was always gambling back then. Of course their is going too far I think like Brothels hehehe, I never got into Pixel Sensuality hehe, but I would never say hey you can't do that. We all pay out 14 dollars a month, and we all play UO to have a great time. I love your Purple Red mall, I have frequented it many time and you did such a great job on it. I hope you respect my opinion, I didn't post this to make you seem foolish, I just don't know where you want this post go, are you just getting feedback, or are you trying to get them banned? In either case Gambling would never be banned in UO, it would be like saying That person in Fell Killed me, we need to ban people from killing any Blue people that go into Fell. Remember, when you walk into Fell, its a risk. You Might die from a murderer, Is he a real murderer in real life? A Shady Person? Probably not, he might be a church going man too.
    The point is, its just a game, A game in which you can Rob, Cheat, Steal, and Plunder. But you can also be Honorable, Loving, Caring and a Defender. That's what Make UO better than any game out their on market. It your choice, who do you want to be when you step foot in Sossaria?
     
  38. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    No one can be forced to gamble. For those who choose to gamble, it's a simple enough matter of caveat emptor.

    What's interesting is how many folks seem to want to remove the sand from the sandbox.
     
  39. Mirt

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    There were plenty of these back in the day. From what I am told there are plenty in second life. If you don't like things like that do what I do don't go.
     
  40. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Couldn't agree more Lady Nico.
     
  41. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Im not sure but as long as it is legal as in government sanctioned.... I mean to say UO is worth to some rl $$ and as such... Does it fall under other gambleing rules?? I wonder if it has been looked into?
     
  42. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    *pictures someone starting a UOGC {Ulitma Online Gaming Commission} and a Mafia to start shaking the Casinos down now*

    Knowing how some of the RP'ers are... I can almost see that happening :)
     
  43. Actually we have had someone that plays a person from the Britannia Gaming Commission who came in checking our credentials and such. Im not going to say who but it is someone from straticts staff. Word is he will be doing a inspection this saturday. Always some funny rp to watch.
     
  44. rieley

    rieley Guest

    Are in-game casinos ethical establishments?

    After thinking about this question I decided to visit a casino on Atlantic. A Mr Lucky Jack noticed what I was doing, came over and explained what I was doing wrong. There is a wooden box on top of the slot machine, when the winnings are won the box is removed. This would stop players from buying worthless keys. Not my brightest moment, the wooden box had been removed but I was attempting to open the amoire (slot machine). Lucky Jack then refunded what I had spent in full.

    Very impressed with the ethics of this establishment, The Golden Fang. But that was not the only thing judged on my visit. The design is simply amazing. So much energy had been used to create a relaxed, beautiful environment. It is truly a place to simply visit even if one doesn't care to gamble. And if your stay is lengthy there are working restrooms!

    A lot of care went into the design and comfort for visitors. Thank you Lucky Jack for your inviting mannerism and the amount of work you and Mr Ace put into this ethical establishment.

    I had fun, and won 1M! (600k profit)

    IMO, in game casino is as ethical as any other UO activity.