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Are Murderers Ever Going To Be Included In Town Voting So They Can Get The Bonus?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mithryl Elves, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    It's a travesty that they were not included from day one. It is completely unfair that they were left out on this one. PK'ing is a historical part of this game and a main reason why players continue to play it. Leaving them out of this very important part of the game negates their opportunity to play the game at the same level as everyone else therefor leaving them at an unfair disadvantage.

    What is the ETA on getting this fixed so that everyone who pays to play this game can share the same advantage as the next?
     
  2. Optimus

    Optimus Adventurer

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    Equality for all!

    Huzzah!

    Huzzah!


    I support thee, good sir!
     
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  3. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    at the very least they should get a town in bucs den.
     
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  4. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    I really would love for EA to give us Bucs Den. No guards is great BUT they need to fix the server line issue. Either way though if that is what it takes for PK's to be allowed the buff then I'm all for Bucs Den. Great Idea... Bucs Den is just sitting there wasting away. We obviously need a Pirating Expansion abd a revamp of Bucs...
     
    #4 Mithryl Elves, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  5. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    no reason the stones cant just be mirrored in fel towns. not like reds cant go into a town, just have to be careful.
     
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  6. tons

    tons Adventurer
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    This def should hsve been part of the original idea. All the risk pvping on a red but no reward. Stay blue uou grt the bonus and protection of guard zone. I think to please the majority it would have to be more than juat bucs. Just have the tram bonus over to the same town in fel. Otherwise, you have 1 single bonus that isnt gonna work for every template.
     
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  7. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Or somehow incorporate it into factions and give a real reason to hold towns.
     
  8. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I agree completely
     
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  9. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    The Pirating idea above could be EXTREMELY fun. I've been talking to Nails about it and he is even intrigued. If EA actually embraced the pvp side specifically PKing and put a pirating twist on it I think amazing things could happen. Up to and including bringing new players to the game AND bringing old players who currently play free servers BACK.
     
  10. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Incorporating the city stones into factions, or Virtue/Vice, or whatever it becomes, makes perfect sense. Faction controls a town and the leader gets to appoint a governor for a week/month. I doubt they'd bother with a council though, since Minax rules Fel.
     
  11. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i hope not..
    there has to be a greater punishment for running around killing people.
    everyone thinks doing a spawn is PVP but its not if you dont want to participate and just want to do the spawn.
     
    #9 aarons6, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  12. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I'd rather not wait for OvC myself...
     
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  13. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    This game has pvp in it and it's going to stay. There have been PK's from the very beginning and they are not going anywhere. PVP is one of the main drivers to this games economy and one very big reason why people come back. I play blues and reds both and it would be very easy to just play a blue and reap the benefit of the town bonus. However, that still leaves it very unfair for a large part of the player base. To say that PK's need to be punished for killing others is just ridiculous. What are you talking about spawn and pvp? Are you implying that I think doing a spawn is pvp because I assure you that I know what pvp is and that I have been a part of it from day one. I would agree with you if you're saying that players being limited to very few things including spawns to GET pvp though if that is what you are saying. Actually I don't have a clue what you're saying but it sounds like you've been PK'd before and didn't like it.
     
  14. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    I almost liked it until you lost me with the Minax comment lol. Ewwww Minax..
     
  15. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Don't talk $%^& about Minax! :p
     
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  16. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Criminals have no rights, including the right to vote.
     
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  17. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    lol Well, according to the fiction LB had Nystul create trammel so we/they could run away and abandon Felucca to Minax.
     
  18. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Sucks being red.

    Put power scrolls in Tram, then we'll talk.
     
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  19. swroberts

    swroberts Journeyman
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    Well saying you are a just a red is n factually accurate. You are a murderer, and chose your karma and fame. There is no fair/unfair argument hear and you are getting what you deserve....which is nothing. You want the bonuses...bring in another character.
     
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  20. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Question for you; if we were still able to vote one per toon, then *maybe*. But with one per account, what's the point? Either way though, I'd have to lean towards Galen's reply, that it's a cost of being red, like how reds used to have to bank only at bucs or empath abbey... If reds aren't accepted in town, why would towns let them still vote? Isn't it akin to federal prisoners not being allowed to vote in the US? Unlike them, though, at least we can choose to stop being red, then get back the vote. :D
     
  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I agree but I deleted my earlier reply....Just too tired of all of this. Not like I'm going to convert anyone who's convinced themselves.

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Gedgerez Tesherd

    Gedgerez Tesherd Journeyman

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    Yes, reds could use a buff since blues get it

    Yes, more pvp is good.

    NO... just no, the few kills people get now days on low pop servers would quickly turn to NEVER SEEING A BLUE AGAIN. Except for afking at Yew gate waiting for signs of human contact, or Arena garbage verbal disputes to gourd someone into a challenge for the sake of bragging rights instead of a selfless act of pvp for it's own rewarding & random thrill, the way spawn raid/defense occurs, or the way you randomly find someone farming out in the wilderness, or dungeon for the last taste of world pvp that even exist on uo still. Sorry but, f___ that mentality to severe part of the Fellucian appetites just to have to keep a Trammel player from ever stepping foot into Felucca again.
     
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  23. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I have no desire to have power scrolls in Tram. My post was in response to someone whining about being red. Everyone knows the consequences of going red. Just like trammies know that you can't get power scrolls unless they go to fel. When I want scrolls, I go to fel.

    Just like none of my characters are red (and yes, I used to have a red). It's a choice. And if knowing the consequences you still make the choice to go red (or not, or not go to fel for scrolls, ect), then you have no one to blame but yourself. Don't like it, make a different choice.
     
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  24. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Does the loss of a town buff really offset the benefits from Faction Arties? There's already more of a buff in Factions isn't there?

    I think the system is fine like it is and given potential conflicts with factions, it should not be added to fel overall. Especially when we don't know what more may be coming with the Governor system... or with the Factions Replacement system.
     
    #21 Tazar, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2013
  25. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    then do it in Ish
     
  26. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    many people in faction don't wear the factions arties anymore, they are just far to expensive to maintain. But the still play in factions.
     
  27. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Some inclusive method for Fel players to have access to similar buffs seems needed (maybe it's part of the 'coming' faction changes, I have no idea) but since the fiction of the world is that Trammel is seperated from, not governed by, and runs independently of, Felucca, simply on the basis of keeping true to the 'setting' it should be a seperate system in Fel.

    Let people get the same things if that is what is wanted for 'balance', but please keep the story of the world alive..... the facets are MEANT to be different.
     
  28. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    On Mugen, there are stones in both Fel and Trammel. However only the ones in Fel work. (And the whole shard is subject to Fel rule set.)

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  29. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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    I am in favor of Bucs Den, or give reds a chance to vote.
    I am a hybrid, I have both blue and red so I can function and have both worlds.
    Some choose to be only red, why not let them vote or let them all fight over Bucs.
     
  30. Zynia

    Zynia Lore Master
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    I agree reds should be able to vote, however we have been presented with 7 character slots, so you have more than enough chances to reserve one to participate in non-murderous activities. Most of us even have multiple accounts, that presents us with even more opportunities..

    I love the idea of making Buc's a red election town though! Maybe you should start a petition, or get 1,000,000 likes on facebook hah. :)
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Kyronix made a couple of comments back in April when the governor system was put on Test that are probably relevant to this thread:

    [http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-publish-81-updated-on-tc1.297486/page-5#post-2259989]: "That's correct, murderers are outcasts from the law and order of a City and cannot benefit from the trade deal." (Maybe someone who has a red character on Siege or Mugen, though, can clarify if this is true on those shards. I'm not sure if it is.)

    And in response to a question about giving murderers Buc's Den [http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-publish-81-updated-on-tc1.297486/page-5#post-2260000 ]: "I would absolutely love for Buc's Den to become a hotbed for murderers, thieves, and ne're do-wells of all sorts."

    Also, Mesanna's last producer's letter (April 16, 2013) said this about why the dev team initially didn't put the city election system in Fel and why they were preparing to relent for Siege/Mugen [http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-letter.298120/#post-2263620]: "I would also like to address the issue of King Blackthorns Counsel on Siege. Originally we did not put it on Siege due to the fact that the towns are Faction towns and we know griefing will happen. If Siege accepts that fact we will be more than happen to add the voting system to Siege."


     
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  32. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Point is they should have equal rights.
    Its pvmers like you that are the only reason there even is a Trammel.
    Ok then lets argue the benefit of being red then because there isn't one. I can sit here and debate a whole lotta risks for being red but not one reward other than slaying trammies and making them cry on video game forums.
    You sir are an idiot. Reds cannot goto EM events because the majority of them are in Trammel. Powerscrolls really? Who cares about powerscrolls. I raid spawns to kill people and have never attacked a barracoon. I get mad when others do because I want the fight to last longer. I also get mad when people talk about "Lets kill it already so we get the scrolls" Powerscrolls? Are we really talking about powerscrolls lol?
     
  33. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Amusing... keep telling yourself that.


    Resorting to name calling already?

    Again, it's all about choice. Reds can't go to an EM event... cry me a river. You want to do an EM event, don't go red or log on another character.

    The power scrolls were used as an example. If you can't see that...well, there isn't much hope for you.
     
  34. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Amusing... keep telling yourself that.


    Resorting to name calling already?

    Again, it's all about choice. Reds can't go to an EM event... cry me a river. You want to do an EM event, don't go red or log on another character.

    The power scrolls were used as an example. If you can't see that...well, there isn't much hope for you.
     
  35. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    If only it was POSSIBLE for my RED to go "get" a Town buff when I wanted.... Sadly it's not. I'm fine with it being more difficult or costly etc, but impossible is wrong.

    Amazingly enough I've had my RED for much longer than the town buffs existed... so I guess it was impossible for me to KNOW the consequences of being red prior to making that choice. It's silly that being RED is all about PvP yet they are effectively giving BLUES impossible to attain buffs that are used against REDS. They aren't trivial buffs either... 1 Faster Casting makes certain templates WAY easier or even possible to build when they weren't otherwise. Make Town Buffs available to REDS... Make they more difficult or more costly or whatever but make it POSSIBLE.

    I get that you don't like PvP NuSair.. and have chosen not to involve yourself in it.... How about you don't bother with input on the subject of PvP then since it doesn't effect you? It makes sense to me......

    Edit... "Babbling Loonie's Tend to love the Anti PvP chit-chat from what I can tell... go figure"
     
    #32 Vexxed, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
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  36. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Not even close to the argument that I'm trying to make. ANYONE in factions red or blue have the option to get faction artys. Reds cannot get the town bonus.

    But to answer your question YES by far the 1 FC or 5 SSI town bonus by FAR outweighs the benefit of faction artifacts. Faction artifacts are not even being used in the best suits in UO currently. Reforged pieces and shame artifacts are. Faction artifacts at this point are as laughable as powerscrolls.
     
  37. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Tazar and NuSair who are your pvp characters? I have a feeling that once again people who do not even pvp are trying to argue to keep the benefit of this bonus within their grasps. Why players who never even go into Felucca feel the need to chime in on pvp topics is beyond me.
     
  38. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Best post in this thread. I was going to like it multiple times but can't do that either lol.

    In short: Like I said above Reds are a historic part of this game. They are not going anywhere and all of the things put in place in the past to punish them were removed from the game. Not giving them the fair option to use the town buff system and taking their voice is a travesty. Everyone in this game Red, Blue, Green or Orange should all benefit from something so overpowering. The reason there is any pushback on this at all is because like Vexxed said "BLUES ARE USING THIS BUFF AGAINST REDS" It is being used as a crutch to make more dominant suits and templates.

    Here is proof. A suit made around a 1 FC town buff
    http://stratics.com/community/threa...-between-2-routes-to-take-vote-please.307900/

    Its done now and here's the mods. This suit is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to make unless you use the town buff or spend billions on Shame artifacts. It does not have one piece of faction artifacts in it. All 6 main pieces are reforged but the sleeves that are from Shame.
    (GARGOYLE SUIT)
    45% Defense Chance Increase
    10% Hit Chance Increase
    100% Lower Reagent
    40 Lower Mana Cost
    2/6 Casting (Suit is 1/6 but gains the +1 FC)
    15% Spell Damage Increase
    50% Enhance Potions
    12% Casting Focus
    20 HP Regeneration
    8 Stamina Regeneration
    23 Mana Regeneration
    17% Damage Eater
    30% Fire Eater
    25 HP Increase
    Resists are all over 70's with 85 Fire
    5 Dex
    30 Mana Increase
     
  39. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Here is the first ever thrower suit made in UO that has 2/6 casting. Once again impossible to make mathematically without the town bonus.
    This suit and the one above are used daily to kill reds while they are forced to use lessor made suits to compete.

    100 Damage Increase
    45 Hit Chance Increase
    2 Faster Casting (This hasen't happened in UO yet with Max 1.25 Swing Per Second)
    6 Fast Cast Recovery
    55 LMC (CAP FOR STONE GARG SUIT)
    55 SWING SPEED INCREASE
    212 STAMINA (MAX SWING 1.25 PER SECOND)
    10 HPR
    18 MR
    61 Stamina Increase
    44 Mana Increase + 9 INT = 53 more mana
    25 HP INCREASE
    17% Damage Eater

    Resists Have Refinements.
    CURRENTLY 75 75 75 75 75
     
    #36 Mithryl Elves, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  40. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    On this that is something we'll just have to disagree on. You choose to be red.

    There have always been consequences in UO for being red. Just because they add something new to the game and reds can't partake in it....


    Actually, I don't mind PvP. I used to do it quite a bit. For a few years, that is all I did in UO. Then it got to the point where I felt everyone was hacking/scripting but me. And I had a choice to make. I used to PvP and you are correct, most of the time these days, I chose not too. I do it some now a days, but not that often.

    Just because I chose to not gank people and go red doesn't mean I don't like pvp or that my opinion on the consequences on being red are invalid.
     
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  41. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

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    I have a question.
    Did you play (or joined) factions when they introduced the faction artifacts and if so, did you use the faction artifacts?

    If the answer is Yes then please link to your thread asking for non-faction PvPers to be able to use the artifacts as well.
    If the answer is No then no link is required.

    Thanks.
     
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  42. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    And there it is just as we thought. You stopped pvping because Reds killed you. They were better than you and therefor had to be hacking and scripting. You quit playing but can't let go of the hatred toward those players whom killed you. And now you are attempting to derail a thread that doesn't concern you at all. GTFO
     
  43. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    I've been in factions from day one of its existence. I don't care who uses what in the game and have already said that anything should be made available to everyone. Faction artifacts are nothing in this game right now. Stop dwelling on it and go buy barbed kits, val hammers and make a Gargoyle suit around the town buff that all 7 blue characters on your account can use.
     
    #40 Mithryl Elves, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  44. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    LoL BLUES CAN be in Factions & use Faction artifacts... Your comparison FAILS.

    Umm.. Yea they added something NEW & it's broken imo so I'm doing what everyone else does which is point it out to the masses in hopes of a fix. I still think that bc you don't play a RED and don't PvP your input is pretty pointless... Actually you said...

    Gah.. Doesn't it suck when someone has an UNFAIR advantage? Hmm.. Gah.. I KNOW that feeling from somewhere... Hmm lemme think... OH yea I'm on a RED and that blue ultimately wins a fight because between us everything else was close enough , but then there's the Town Buff and that just tipped it his way. Seeing my point yet?
     
  45. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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  46. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Reds don't want governors..we want JUST bucs as a town that is solely fought over like factions was..and we vote in a king of bucs who then taxes the members to pay for a single buff!! Keep the rest of your crappy towns!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  47. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Whatever man... even when scripted against, I didn't die that much... that has nothing to do with it. If it was straight honest PvP without scripting/hacking then even if I died 1000 times, I would get up 1001 to go again. I've been in most guilds vents to know just about all the pvp guilds are running something. The last one was this past summer, I was running harrowers on Atlantic and it amazed me how open people were talking about hacking/scripting in the chat.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.
     
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  48. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, I see your point, I have since you made it. I just disagree. Don't like being red... make another character.

    There is a difference between an ingame buff and scripting/hacking.
     
  49. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    I find it ironic that some of the same people who are against reds getting the town buff because hurting other characters are evil are the same people who like the post about that "evil greater dragon".
     
  50. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Irony has nothing to do with it and shows your complete lack of understanding of what the word irony means.

    Luring a Greater Dragon to kill someone AFK farming.... Red characters can't get a town buff......

    Yeah.... don't see any connection there at all.
     
  51. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    LoL Try articulating your REASONING... I've made my case... it's an unfair advantage for blues .. your response is basically don't like it tough cookies.. lol


    Not really... both are Decisions made by the Developers..
     
  52. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    Yah thats another one of their worries. They think we give a crap about towns. If we pvpers REALLY wanted to though we could take their towns this election. Still couldn't
    use them though lol.

    You disagree because of your prejudice against reds who have killed you in the past. You said so above. And dude GTFO you don't even goto Felucca nor do you pvp at all. You said that too.
    The connection is you are a pvmer, you keep dieing, you obviously suck at healing yourself and survivability and you are in a thread that involves pvp raging because all you do is keep dieing. I can give you a few mil for insurance if it helps with your rage issues.
     
  53. Mithryl Elves

    Mithryl Elves Elves Suck
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    OK so now that we revealed one person against this doesn't even pvp lets get a response from Tazar now. Tazar who is your pvp character or is it more of the same here with you too?
     
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