1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Are the players the reason for lack of a modern UO?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MikevonHammer, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. I remember way back when, the buzz was out for the new UO2. The veteran players were demanding that they could migrate their items to the new game, etc.
    And now years later, we still have this antique of a game. If Mythic/EA were to release a modern UO [with a kool 3d engine], and it had all the "gimmics of UO [crafting, cooking, trades, adventuring]. Would you be willing to flush everything in the old UO away, and start fresh in the new modern UO?

    I dunno if I would or not. I hate grinding. I had to grind in UO to raise skills, I had to grind in WOW and Rift. I hate it. My UO toons are pretty well set where I want them [granted this is based on builds from years ago, not today]. Then add to that, one of my tamers has a "rare" pet. It's a kiryn that eats meat.

    I'd hate to see they "wiped", and having to start all over. But on the same token, there currently is nothing out there with the depth of UO. I would love to see UO as a 3d game. Keep everything else, but pull it over to 3d.
    But like I said, this game as it is, has a lot of history, memories to it. But sometimes the past needs to stay in the past, if it prevents us from moving on.

    Granted, I strongly doubt EA/Mythic will ever work on or release a 3d version of UO, in this day and age. How many MMORPGs launch and fail each year?
     
  2. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    EA just seems to have a problem with MMOs. They were panicky about UO and UO2 splitting what they thought was a limited number of players - had they known the kinds of numbers Warcraft would eventually pull, they probably would have went all in on UO2 and UO probably would have been dropped after a few years once UO2 rolled out.

    They got burned with one of their biggest franchises - Sims Online and their racing MMO were big embarassments, and they were both topped in 2009 by Warhammer being incredibly humiliating and incredibly damaging financially.

    But there are also the turf wars that Garriott and others have talked about that happened long before Warhammer, and even before Sims Online - Origin in its last several years was suffering while EA Sports and the Sims people could do no wrong and could get as much money/resources as they wanted.

    That brings up another point - the people who used to run EA were more focused on titles where they could crank out sequel after sequel every year, just slapping new jerseys, names, new cars, or uniforms/weapons on what amounted to nearly the same game. For people who are used to dealing with sports games or racing, FPS, and Sims-type games, MMORPGs are alien to them.

    Which is why I'm still a little surprised about EA putting a lot of money into Star Wars and eventually into the Kingdom of Amalur MMORPG. Then again, Star Wars is Star Wars, and KoA has some major names with huge fanbases behind it.

    EA has learned their lesson though, they aren't farting around with missing out on the Facebook/mobile gaming like they missed out on MMORPGs.
     
  3. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Keep in mind that EA canceled a Harry Potter MMORPG in 2000, just three years after the first book came out and a year before the first Harry Potter film came out.

    They really had no idea about MMORPGs.

    Or about Harry Potter.
     
  4. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    I don't see any reason why it can't be done with UO itself instead of with a sequel. The whole concept of an MMORPG is that the game never ends in the first place, so to make a sequel in the same world-setting would be rather pointless, might as well simply update the current world with the new technology and keep going.

    So to that end, my ideal would be to occasionally update the client to use newer technology and UI advances, retire old clients and keep going.

    The problem has been two-fold in my view. First and foremost is that for whatever reason, be it higher-ups, dev team relocations, dev team shifts, people being hired/fired/removed to other projects, whatever... no new UO client has ever been able to get past between 60 and 80 percent of the way "completed". They simply get it "somewhat playable" and let it go. Secondly, there is a contingent of UO players who are DEADSET in using the 2d client and will NEVER use anything else. A lot of their reasoning is "Ultima is the 2d client, nothing else looks like Ultima"... but that would actually go against a big portion of the history of Ultima itself... in that every release of an Ultima game pushed the limits of current day technology. They refused to use the same engine, and you can bet if an Ultima came out, you'd probably need new hardware to run it... at least that WAS the case until the Enhanced Client which actually went BACKWARDS for the first time in Ultima history.

    The best way IMO to move UO forward is to make each new client the best it can be, release it when it is READY to be released, not in some semi-beta state as was done with Third Dawn/KR/EC, and then retire the older client(s) regardless of the noise made by the playerbase. It's a risk, but if done properly, you'll not only bring along the people initially complaining, but bring in new (and former) players as well as they see the game with a new look, but a familiar feel.

    As for full 3d, beyond the old Underworld titles, Ultima (particularly the online attempts) has not exactly had the best of track record with a full 3d world. XI was a disaster, and UO2 and U:X were both aborted attempts. Use 3d technology, and add to the features available, but I think UO itself is best preserved in the isometric viewpoint. Maybe at some point if we CAN get the 2d client retired, look into allowing for camera rotation (like the original version of U:IX was going to be before it became UO (look that one up)) as well as other interesting features.
     
  5. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,783
    Likes Received:
    10
    Maybe they are already doing it. ;)

    Funny coincidence we got a new Ultima Franchise Producer not a Ultima Producer.
     
  6. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    Well since noone else has bothered to actually answer your question here Op.. I will.

    The answer is Yes actually.. too many people like playing the Classic Client and moan too much if anyone talks bad about it or touches it. I'm not saying thats bad.. I won't tell you how to play if you don't tell me how to play.. my motto all the way.

    But Yes.. they have held our game back from any client advancement and have even killed EA's attempts to modernize the game in the past.. at least three times..

    Just sayin..
     
  7. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    459
    Of course, it may also have helped if EA had delivered a new client that was either graphically attractive or competently engineered.
     
  8. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    It would not matter how good it looked to certain people.
     
  9. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    2,328
    Well if you consider the last 3 attemps as an advancement then please take UO back to the stone age. They have yet to make one finished client other than the Clasic Client.
    3rd Dawn was a joke
    KR was a computer hog
    EC is still being worked on after how many years?

    KR and EC have a better User Interface but I am sorry the art department should have never redrawn anything. They should have made the graphics crisper, cleaner and more detailed but they should never been allowed to redraw anything. You have people redrawing things in UO that have never played the game so they draw it the way they think it should be done. The sad part was they were allowed to do it. You want people to use something that has a better UI but is ugly and does not look like UO then I am sorry. How about I go out and get you a DeSoto and let you drive it around. If you redrew everything in UO and added in a new UI then you have UO2 not UO. Give us our clasic graphics and the UI of the EC. Quit trying to change what UO looks like and just make it run better with more functions. Guess one of the art people liked Dodo birds so much that you can now ride them in the EC, now that is improvement. :lol:
     
  10. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,783
    Likes Received:
    10
    ^^ Frodo, its the same ole blame the players spiel whine that p(l)ayers wont adopt a client with worse graphics and performance than the existing client. LOL :mf_prop:
     
  11. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    59
    It is not the fault of the players. The incompetence of the programmers and the art team ist at fault. Just do a search in this forum about hideous blobs (we call em hiryu in CC) and constant crashes.

    Who is his right mind would switch from fully functional but outdated client to some other outdated unstable and extremly ugly client? I have never and will never install the EC client. Make a client that is as clear, sharp and stable as the CC, then i will switch. As long as i need someone to explain to me what each collorful blob on an EC-Screenshot is, i will not touch it.
     
  12. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    If they can make a true 3d client that's great. Just leave me a classic client to play.

    I'm sure im not alone when i say i get physically ill, almost like a car sickness, when playing 3d games. In my case, and others like mine, it's truely 2d or nothing.
     
  13. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    41
    I had written a list of stuff that I would like to see in UO to fix it but it got too big. So instead I put it in its own thread here.
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,978
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    I have to say that I believe that YES it is the players holding UO back... It's also the Players who keep UO going.

    Were it not for the players UO would have died ages ago.

    But sadly the players can't move on from 2d.

    Few embrace the EC. Just look at what the simple change to sheep caused?
    And that wasn't even intentional.

    And then I have to agree with others... What is given has to be acceptable... that horrible art that was the KR client was a travesty. What was once nice looking turned into some sort of distorted mess..... even my chests looked like swaybacked old nags.
     
  15. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    Sad but true.
     
  16. I would totally start fresh on a UO2 MMO. Just like I did in EQ2 or any other game that caught my interest. Part of the enjoyment is the mad rush of the start of a MMO where almost everyone are newbies to the game. That is when memories are made, and last a life time. Looking at Kas' sig, just reminds me of EQ1 fishing off the pier of Freeport. The littlest things sometimes end up being some of the most memorable.

    That is something these new WoW clone MMOs lack. They tend to focus too much on combat and forget that MMO should be world with depth. People want to feel like they are living in another world when playing. Not being in combat 99% of the time. It's like eatting pizza everyday. It could be your favorite pizza but anyone will get bored of it after the first week.

    Most MMO players are not 12 year olds hooked on action all the time. That's why we have first person shooters like MW3 and such. Mature MMO players want a game with depth that doesn't just involve combat all the time. But brings purpose to a player's gaming experience. That the fruits of your labor rewards your gaming experience... be it crafting, a trademans, an adventurer, etc helps the community as a whole.

    Can UO2 be that good that people forget about UO? Maybe...
     
  17. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    I think it is deeper than that....

    Big, corporate type business really have no idea about the gaming industry.

    It's like when TSR promoted someone to CEO because they had a good business back ground and not a clue about the gaming industry and they ran it into the ground. If it hadn't been for Wizards of the Coast, TSR would no longer be around and who knows what the fate of D&D would have been then.

    You look at the games that have been successful, and they are successful because they are made by gamers with a passion, not with business men (or mail room clerks) doing something they have no business doing.

    It's when corporate steps in that things go wrong.

    IMO, what it would take would be something like rebuilding and re-skinning the game, top to bottom. It would be a 2-4 year process with twice to three times the number of people working on it now.

    As gamers, we look at UO and believe it can easily be around for another 14 years. Suits look at UO and see a tired old game that has been on life support. Well, hate to break it to them, but if you listen to the nay sayers, UO has been on 'life support' since 2000. And it still looks pretty strong to me.
     
  18. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd start over for a new and awesome client! I would like to see a new UO2, but i really think they should just untangle and refine the existing code and then build a brand new, exceptionally attractive client. They are partnered with Bioware already! Why can't the divisions work together to get the client up to the standards shown in NW2?

    Either way, you are always going to get the quit-threats from people if they can't migrate the crap. I've never seen a game allow it before, so unless i've missed one, the best you can hope for is some sort of boost based on being a player in the original.

    Either way, I say that yes, the players are holding things up to a point, but EA is equally culpable.
     
  19. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    Truer words have never been uttered.
     
  20. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    Make a UO2 with the graphic quality (not graphic style, graphic quality) and isometric camera of Diablo 3, let me port my characters and items over, and I would keep on trucking in the new game, no questions asked.

    The only problem I see with it would be that you would want to remove the tile-based nature of UO and replace it with free-range movement. If they did that, they'd have to spend a year just developing a house decoration system that didn't make aligning items a nightmare.
     
  21. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    459
    I am sure I cannot be the only one who was filled with excitement when the KR client was first announced, both at the prospect of Baldur's Gate style graphics and what it would mean for the future of UO. But what was delivered fell way, way short of the mark. Even if I accepted the dodgy graphics and how stupid I looked on my charger in KR, there was at least one bug that made the client almost completely unplayable for me. In short, if the 2d client had been withdrawn at that point then I would not be playing UO anymore.

    Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people who are surgically attached to the classic client, both out of pure stubbornness and because they don't want to be without their, erm, "helper applications". But it is pointless expounding on the topic until the player base has been presented with a legitimate alternative.
     
  22. Hellstorm

    Hellstorm Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    11
    Regardless of what people would like to believe, a new client is coming, and a large advertising campaign. As HD mentioned, they didnt hire a franchise producer, if they didnt plan on having a franchise.

    UO has some name recognition, a long history, and has had millions of players come and go. A new modern client is going to draw in new players and bring back old players.

    Would i give up everything I have for a fresh start in a new version of UO? if it was a freshly programmed, lag and bug reduced client... Yes I would. But I think having a turn in system for current players would be a good idea... almost like doing a character transfer, but your house, and stats, skills, and even fame are worth some points. That could be spent in the new game.

    tell me we wont ever see the new Chinese UO over here, and I will bump my posts with " I told you so "... For those that get motion sickness from 3d games, I hope they support the current client forever...

    Whatever happens to UO, I am sticking around, every time I come back, I really enjoy it.
     
  23. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    The primary issue with allowing people to keep their stuff is that they will immediately and irrepairably damage the games economy and power structure from day one. This would be damaging to any new player, who would be at such a huge disadvantage that they would not want to play.

    The solution of course is to balance it out by giving new folks the same or equivalent stuff, but then the old schoolers would cry foul and rage quit.

    In a nutshell, no one in their right mind would allow anyone to keep and transfer their stuff to a new game.
     
  24. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    I agree with Ned..personally I'd have no problem starting completely over.
     
  25. Hellstorm

    Hellstorm Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    11
    And i agree as well, I would start with nothing... but getting some points or a little boost toward the new game is not a totally unreasonable request. I think vet players deserve a little something. Just nothing that would make them OP compared to newer players.
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    2,328
    Well you all just let us know when they come up with one. So far 3 strikes. :lol:
     
  27. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,539
    Likes Received:
    1,931
    Yup, me too. If EA ever rolls out an additional MMORPG with the Ultima brand, I'd just as soon see it start out as a clean slate for everyone.
     
  28. Thats a silly notion. No that desire didnt kill the game. They still make money. Find a team to start UO 3-D that is the only problem.
     
  29. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    A large advertising campaign?

    :lol:

    If there was a new client coming, they wouldn't bother putting resources into updating the existing EC graphics to high resolution.

    The word "franchise" means they are moving beyond UO, and the new producer has mentioned other Ultima projects. UltimaForever.com, all of the hints about a Facebook game, etc. make it clear that there is another Ultima game coming, as does the producer's letter:
     
  30. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    Players are only a small part of the reason for lack of a modern UO.

    The main culprit is EA. This should be a given. Move your team across the country twice and go through producers while reducing the team you have to work on the game consistently and you get the reason. The players only have a minimum amount of fault.
     
  31. Saphireena

    Saphireena Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    12
    Amen to that! I never did understand why on earth one would make a "part 2" of the same game. It's good they never did it, it would have shattered players apart.
     
  32. Because of the issues of modernizing old code with new code. Remember the 'hassle" the devs went through trying not to "break" certain things in the classic client, when they came out with the EH client?

    IMO, It's easier to start with a blank slate, then to have to try to re-code all the code that has been written, and add new code on top of that.
     
  33. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    I would have to give it serious thought the option to drop over a decade of game time to start over. Start fresh on a new and improved UO with TOS and rules written and signed in blood. Judge Dread UO GMs with a backbone to use their power, "I am the LAAAWWWW!" Other big fail is the RNG and their use of it, or lack of.

    How much better a UO world would be if they knew then what they know now. It would really take a huge feat just to make a million gold worth something again.
     
  34. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    nah, the only reason i still play uo is because i have the characters built so i can just play when i log on. I wouldnt personally want to go through the grinding. Right now i can hop on and pvp, do an event or whatever i want.

    On another note and not part of the question, i think you would actually get the boost of a whole entirely new audience for the new game that are not even playing uo right now and wont be returning to this version.
     
  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,978
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    I would start over from scratch if it meant going 3d with a competent engine that didn't crash all the time and it looked as nice as many of the other games out there... but kept all the qualities that make UO unique. Sheep shearing, cow tipping, house design and customization... no leveling... the whole sandbox.

    I'd start over from scratch if it meant having a level field. If it were the answer to the economic situation... If the new engine were without cheats. Where folk who do cheat or dupe could easily be caught and banned in such a way that they can't just start a new account and go right back at it.

    I'd be willing to start over if it meant we had a new ToS that with the new engine could tell if you had been hacked.... who the hacker was.... and like other games now they RETURNED things to the rightful owner.

    I'd start over if EA totally changed their policy and started treating their customers with respect instead of treating them like a bunch of liars and criminals who are somehow "out to get them".

    I'd start all over if EA had a billing system that didn't over charge, double charge, and add taxes where there are none.

    But we know none of that is ever going to happen... so why bother dreaming about it.
     
  36. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    21
    UO needs to go '3-D' the way Diablo III/NWN are 3-D. The isometric view is one of the distinguishing features of UO, and honestly, I prefer it over the WoW-style view.

    And I think people would switch if the client was stable and the art was GOOD. I just installed the EC about a month ago because the backpack makes Treasure Picking out of chests a lot easier, and I can honestly say it's fugly. The proportions are all wrong, your avatar looks either too small or too big compared to relative surroundings. Don't even get me started on how I look like a beached whale on my mount.

    I realize the whole 'sprites' from the 2-D version are severely outdated and limited, but until they stop trying to just 'import' the tile/art from 2D, they will won't succeed in getting a majority of people to switch, in my opinion.

    If they redid all the art completely and did a great job [see D3/NWN] this game really could take off again. No other game has immersion like UO does, housing, no classes, crafters that don't need to PVM to reach top tiers, it's a great game. But either give up on 3D because you're trying to half-ass it, and concentrate on making classic client the best it can be; or decide 3D deserves all new art/etc and make sure it looks DAMN good.

    Edit: It seems that if they gave up on 3D and perhaps focused on CC, bringing the great features of EC into CC and perhaps a 'limited' webclient [with all the flash games out there, they *HAVE* to be able to do something, maybe limited to 640x480 or something.] that would be awesome.
     
  37. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like keeping the CC. It's fun to see what crazy system can run UO. I don't still have my dual Pentium that I built in college, that was my first system that played UO. I keep ubuntu, wine, and the UO CC on an 8 GB thumb drive; I only need to boot off it and I am set.

    It's amazing how much my PvP abilities improve when I switch to the EC running on Windows with good hardware and macros that match my template.
     
  38. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    45
    No no no they had this chance and with the current dev team who is not even able to create a stable 2d sprites client over 4 years, it is a waste of money and resources.

    What i like to see is, two stable clients, with the current ingame development and iam satacisfied, i dont need new walls or roofs. Why i need new roofs, if iam not able to see them :mf_prop:
     
  39. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    45
    This is a dream! ;) A wonderfull dream!
     
  40. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    As to your question, Yes we are.
     
  41. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    194
    I would play a brand new UO that had superior graphics engine ,as long as it took UO back to it's Roots .Classic shard no trammel remake ,with all new content derived from the UO history with the assurance that if you play there is no whining to get the easier facet ,no option of splitting up the game .It would have to be a monetary system that cannot be corrupted and retain all of the elements of randomness ,so planning and scripting is a waste of time. Macroing with a UO assist-like program built into the game would preclude the need for scripting . I think that more unknown content with no test center is the way to go .And besides the more difficult you make it for the shortcut users the more interest there is!
    Uo is loved for it's variety of things to do,it's ability to build and deco , the pvp ,and of course the community.In game vendor tracking would be easier to produce ,rather than a world trade center because people like to have vendor houses.
    I would hop on that train.
     
  42. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    Just so you know randomness and rarity is the heart of what makes scripting profitable. It actually encourages. Additional any game that makes a full loot nonconsensual pvp game space has failed. Just some food for though. I would say that I love playing UO. Are there things I would change and do differently yes. But that doesn't mean that its the wrong direction. Yes it is because of the players that this game is still going.
     
  43. Noti(Caci)

    Noti(Caci) Guest

    The point is there is Everquest and as Everquest 2 came out the playerbase was only splited not really more.After a while the most player vent back from Everquest 2 to Everquest 1 and Everquest 2 got empty.
    Same can happen if you want a UO-2 in 3D.
    Best way is to make a uo 3D real where you can have the choice to move your character from old uo to there and to make a big campain advertisment.
    So both the 2d classic client and the real 3D claint can be played for uo would be the best.The reason is some kind of pvp is easier to handel in 2D because oyu see your oponents at your backside.For instance there is one game out you can play it in 2D and oyu can summon out in real 3D.But i dont remember exactly the name of the game maybe spellforce 2.
     
  44. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648

    Doesn't this really boil down to what you see as "profit"?

    I don't play UO for profit.. I play for "fair return".

    I want $15.00 worth of fun for $15.00.

    so compared my other forms of entertainment..
    IMAX movies.. (love em).. $13.00 for approx 2 hours.
    Taking my kids to eat.. $ 150.00 for approx 1 hour.
    Going Shooting... .22 cal cheap.. SK and Thompson.. average .57 cents a round.
    The RedHawk.. At Walmart $52.00 for 50 rounds 1.04 a shot.
    Taking the bikes out.. approx. $200.00 a day usually done in two day weekends.
    Getting drunk.. I'm a GM at this so maybe $50 bucks a shot.. 4 times a month.
    Dinner with my Ex.... $100.00 a month
    I hope you see the pattern.. even if the only reason I kept internet was Ultima.. We are looking at a pretty low price. And just to be honest I have three accounts.

    And I have way more rares than any scripter I've ever met..
    The Academic books to make the Arcane bookshelves are supposedly continually camped..
    Then why aren't they for sale? At any cost? I'm so tired of hearing this.. If someone was actually botting them for cash then why can't I buy one for cash?


    Yeah I know what your gonna ask.. the answer is I don't have a character that can handle Bedlam.. never will.
     
  45. Saphireena

    Saphireena Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    12
    Oh I understand that completely. All I'm saying is that whatever way it were to be done technically (from scratch or by fixing up the old engine), that it's silly to make new MMO in addition to the old one. That instead the game should just be recreated and keeping the user database intact so that one fine day there is a mega patch in which the patcher deletes the old files and downloads the new ones. And when the player logs on, their character and house and everything is intact.

    The main risk I see with this is if the new client is not clearly superior in every possible aspect. Lots of testing has to be done beforehand and players opinions need to be listened to, polls made etc. I'd say that if 90% of the players want the new client, then go for it.

    It's not so easy though, because a very large chunk of UO's charm is about pixel crack. Item collection, decoration, house building etc are all more enjoyable in the classic client because graphics are neatly packaged little pixel creations. (with things like pvp and pve, the case may be completely different). And in this respect UO is very different from the 3d MMOs. Could you imagine getting hugely excited about getting a rare 3d deco in Age of Conan or WoW? Even if you could set it down in your own home? Nope... it's the visual aspect of pixel packaging that does it and the little dark stroke that gives it the "object" feel. A game which is very similar to UO in this respect is Habbo Hotel, a pixel based virtual world which has been around for a decade and does good business. People buy pixel crack with their mobile phones.

    Unfortunately, I think EA hasn't understood this about UO for a very long time.
     
  46. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    C'mon Saphireena.. if half of your current subscriber base threatens to quit if you upgrade the game.. and only ten percent of them ACTUALLY quit. These are people that are already paying.. If you were the CEO of EA would you risk it..

    If You want to do the math current rumors hold UO subs at about 300,000..
    Guestimate 9.99 us dollars a month per..

    As a responsible Executive Officer of your company.. would you do it?

    P.S. Remember EA has already shown that if you fail... well that's your pack animal.
    Security! Show this person the door!
     
  47. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    Actually in this case I was really referencing things that continually spawn. I am all for randomizing the artifact and stealables that will actually hurt scripting. That being said if you make it so that only one out of every 500 times you get, oh lets say a ML gem, and you can mine 500 times every hour. Then for every hour of play time that a normal player will put in they will get one gem. Lets say you want to get this item that requires ten gems. That means 10 hours. Now if your actively sitting there that’s a long time. Of course if your scripting 23 hours a day then its all great. The more you randomize constant spawn things the bigger an edge you give to the scripters because the bulk of players are not willing to spend all their game time mining or farming. Part of the reason that everyone buys from ingot vendors in Luna is that its so convenient and it has become so pervasive that at ever level it goes to a bot doing the work. This is even if you buy it from one of the few true crafters left in game (who will take custom orders because the base is so low vendors for things like this no longer make sense). That was all that I was pointing out that randomization when it comes to continuous spawning resources benefits the scripters and bots more then it ever will those of us that refuse to script anything. If your asking about fun well yes for me who refuses to script or benefit from it my life is harder because sometimes I have to go without because I will not buy stuff I know to be script mined.
     
  48. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    I feel I must reiterate here:

    No game company in their right mind is going to rework a game from the ground up without the clear expectation that there will be scads of new players.

    New players in UO are at a severe disadvantage right now. Sure they get 1k gold and it's fairly easy to either find someone to give you a good twink or make some gold in a couple of days, but it still a huge disadvantage compared to a veteran who has millions in the bank along with a house and lots of materials to work with.

    Plop all that crap right smack dab in the middle of a brand new game and several things will happen:

    1. New players will be jealous of the existing players and will not be willing to pay the same if they don't get the same stuff.
    2. Existing players will be bored. No reason to get out there (sort of like now).
    3. The economy will be so horribly skewed by the unintended billions of gold that it will never be able to right itself.
    4. MOBs will need a huge HP boost to match the extreme power of legacy weapons; this will make them outclass any new player. Too challenging for new, boring for old.
    5. Not enough space for housing. Everyone who has a house is already taking up space. Those with money who reactivate their accounts will immediately buy a house a place it in what's left before any noobs can build up a bankroll.
    These are just a few of the obvious issues, but I have to say again. There is absolutely positively any possible way that a game company would allow a player to import 14 years worth of wealth and property into a new game. It is an instant game killer. Especially if hundreds or even thousands did it. They would rather you quit.
     
  49. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    286
    Hate to admit it but Ned is right. We might get a new client and we might get new expansions but a new UO would mean that everything from the original would be gone. It would be the only way for them to go.
     
  50. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    The closest game that gave me some old UO feel to it besides a FS was DaoC.

    If they just do a brand new UO with DaoC graphics and playstyle it be great. I still say DaoC housing beats UO hands down. Plus the RvR had a gosh darn good reason to be out pvping against other realms. My opinions though.

    To MikevonHammer. Yes I believe the players are at fault for holding back UO. The devs are trying to do a client upgrade over old code just isnt working for UO. Until people are ready to admit they have a current pixel addiction and let it all go for a new game with newer cooler pixels and a reason to play then the game will move forward.