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ARGH!! Making all 70s armor? Help!

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Roland of Atlantic, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Roland of Atlantic

    Roland of Atlantic Journeyman
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    I can't get this right. I'm trying to make a 70/95/70/70/70 set for my archer/sampire based on the spirit of the totem.

    I understand the general principle involved, I think. Basically I want to craft an item that is ultra low in the resists I want to imbue on it, to push the arms lore bonus to other resists that won't be enhanced, but I can't seem to use that to make everything line up. I start out with the Spirit of the totem resists, then craft, say barbed leather arms, and imbue say fire and poison to max. Then I make a gorget and imbue energy and cold on it. Then I add up the resists for the 3 pieces and look at how the resists stack up, find out the 2 lowest, and imbue those on the next piece. And so on.

    It all seems so damned simple until I get to the end and I'm missing in 3 resists and I have no way to make it up except imbuing more than 2 resists on some pieces. What am I doing wrong here? The last time I had a set made for me, I watched the person do it and it was done in like 10 minutes flat. No lengthy juggling of numbers or screw-ups or anything. I spent an hour today crunching numbers and slaving to make a junk set of armor I had to trash because it wouldn't work out. Anyone want to tell me the secret? Is there a spreadsheet calculator out there I don't know about?
     
  2. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    What I'd do, is I'd try to make pieces that would hit 95 fire without imbuing, using a spined kit, then worry about fitting the other properties on them.
     
  3. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    My advise is:
    Craft items where two resists are as low as possible. Imbue those two to max. This way you'll lose the least resist points. Especially when making the last 2 armor pieces it may take numerous crafting attempts before you get the needed base armor pieces.
     
  4. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Just crunched some numbers and its doable quite easily, its just gona take a while to get the exact right pieces.

    You need to craft lots and lots with barbed leather untill you get one of each of the 5 pieces with:

    10/x/13/x/14

    The x's can be any value shared between 10 points e.g. 10/2/13/3/14 or 10/1/13/4/14.

    When you have all 5 pieces with these spread of resists you need to imbue 19 fire and 14 poison so you end up with 10/19/13/14/14,
    that *5 = 50/95/73/70/70/ plus totem = 70/98/73/74/74.

    Taking that into account as you are now OVER what you need, you can get away with having just 10/x/12/x/11 on 2 pieces and then still 10/x/13/x/14 on others, or any combination aslong as they add up to 70/95/70/70/70 at the end.

    Its easy to do, just gona take alot of crafting items from barbed and then when you get the right piece add the totals up to see what the next 4 need, then the next 3.... and so on.

    Hope that makes it easy for you.

    Thunderz
     
  5. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    Normal Spirit of the Totem (20-3-8-4-4) or Faction (20-10-10-10-10)?

    Basara and Hawkeye have suggested two ways to do it. I use the method Hawkeye proposed. I craft 10-20 of a piece at a time using barbed leather. Any with 5 fire resist I drop in a bag. I repeat and run through all armor slots doing the same until I have 2-3 of each slot with a 5 fire resist option. I then equip the piece for each slot I expect to need, opting for the piece with a second resist closest to the base for barbed (4-5-5-6-7).
     
  6. Roland of Atlantic

    Roland of Atlantic Journeyman
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    Wow, I have burned 2000 barbed leather trying to make a single barbed mempo 10/x/13/x/14. I still can't hit it right. Best I got was 7/6/15/7/12 or 7/7/13/7/13. Im gonna need something like 20k barbed leather for this, won't I? All it seems to want to give me is 10/10/9/9/10. *sigh*
     
  7. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You're better off with the spined kit method.

    That way, there's only 11 points from the exceptional/arms lore bonuses, but you can get properties falling in where they can be really useful - such as actually getting 20% or more in fire resist, from a combination of runic & exceptional bonuses, especially if you use horned leather instead of barbed. In cases of using Horned, you're trying to get fire resist as a runic property, and imbuing the others. The difficulty then becomes one of avoiding properties that you don't want.

    You can also shake things up by going for 2-3 high end fire pieces out of horned, then doing the rest out of barbed.
     
  8. TullyMars

    TullyMars Sage
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    That happens a lot...the 10-10-9-9-10

    I keep a bunch of vendors with just GM made armor for just this purpose.
    Any time I get a 13 or better (sometimes 12 if it is poison or cold) in any resist it goes on my vendors (I price at 200 per leather to make just in case anyone else wants to buy) for a rainy day.
    Only experienced imbuers shop those vendors...in fact most people laugh to see a GM Exceptional Armor vendor.
    Then it becomes less difficult to mix and match.
    But remember you can mix and match

    Ok so you mempo is 7-7-13-7-13
    Do you have two other pieces that is 12-x-13-x-14 to counteract?

    Or perhaps you have a piece that is 10-x-13-14-x in which case you can imbue the fire and energy up on that piece...instead of fire and poison

    It is mix and match--so you can compensate in one spot for another.
    It truly can be an art form to master.
     
  9. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I really don't think this should be too difficult. I can't login to check but I believe the max resists for barbed leather after imbuing for each resistance is 17 phys, 19 fire, 18 cold, 18 pois, 18 energy. Assuming that's correct...Here are 5 barbed leather pieces I've crafted that are currently sitting in a secure waiting to be imbued:

    neck 10-5-11-8-13
    tunic 8-5-10-9-15
    arms 8-6-7-12-14
    legs 8-5-12-9-13
    hand 9-6-10-14-8
    Total: 43-27-50-52-63

    I'll assume using the normal spirit of the totem (20-3-8-4-4) taking the suit to:
    63-30-58-56-67
    To get to all 70's I would do the following:
    Neck - 19 fire, 13 pois
    tunic - 19 fire, 15 phys
    arms - 16 fire, 18 cold
    legs - 19 fire, 18 pois
    hand - 19 fire, 11 energy
    Which would leave a total of:
    70-95-69-70-70

    Yes, my cold resist on that would only be 69, but I also wasted two potential resist by choosing arms and hand pieces that started with 6 fire resist instead of the base 5. That's 2 resist imbues per piece. Note that using the faction head piece I could save the neck's poison imbue and the hand's energy imbue.

    Make an assortment of all your pieces before you start imbuing so you can mix in more complimentary pieces. Otherwise you will likely waste resist in energy. A stack of about 1000 barbed leather should be plenty (assuming use salvage bag) if you recycle the ones that don't have a 5 fire resist.
     
  10. Roland of Atlantic

    Roland of Atlantic Journeyman
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    Ok, I looked through my stocks and I found a piece I made on the first time around when I couldn't line up the resists.

    I have a set of arms I made from red scales that came out like this, after I imbued 2 additional resists on it:

    7
    20
    18
    7
    18

    If I put those on with the Spirit of the Totem I get

    27
    23
    26
    11
    22

    That would leave me 4 pieces to get 43 phy,
    72 fire, 44 cold, 59 poison and 48 energy on.

    I made some stuff from a spined kit and got some pieces that looked impressive, but if a piece came out (Stam inc 4, 7/19/16/8/9) and I checked it to see what the imbue status was on it, it would say it had 3 property imbues on it. Stamina inc would be one, and I guess the fire and cold count for the other 2. Where is the cutoff? I dont get why I'm making stuff with a runic kit if I can't get high resists without them being called imbues.

    I had another piece come out with mana inc and self repair on it, which showed as 2 imbues. I was told self repair will go away when the item is imbued, and it did, but the imbue slot didnt open up when I imbued the mana inc to max. It still said it had 2 imbues on it. Apparently the ghost of self repair still occupied a slot.

    With the runic kits, is there no such thing as a free lunch? Why use them if everthing remarkable about the finished product counts as an imbue?
     
  11. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Because the "Free lunch" from the runic kit will give you a much higher end product than Imbuing ever will.

    It's theoretically possible for a runic to give you a fire resist in the high 20s (if you get a near-max runic property, with a significant amount of the exceptional also falling into fire). Just one piece like that can radically alter or eliminate the need to imbue fire on another piece. It might mean that it precludes most (if not all) of a 5th property on that piece, but not having to add fire to one of those pieces could mean making a much lower other piece fit, with other properties.
     
  12. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    I dont go the runic rute for that exact reason, its not a free ride its an over charged ride. 1 more point in a resist counts as a whole 1 slot on the item, worthless really and a waste of leather and gold buying kits.

    If you have the bods or the runic kits lying around i guess burning 200 kits might justify it but i dont and most of us dont so its MUCH cheeper and easier to just burn leather and recycle it till you get pieces with the right spread of resists that fit.

    Thunderz
     
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Strange, I find the exact opposite to be true. And, I'm more likely to speak for "most of us" than you are.

    it's mind-numbingly easy to get more spined runics than you could ever use, and all they require to fill are cloth items (most of which can be bought) and leather footwear (also can be bought). I can make a suit like you talk about with maybe 5 spined kits - not 200. My spined kits cost me the cost of 60 cloth items at a tailor, and 20 footwear from a cobbler - if I don't fill the cloth items from the 10s of thousands of cloth I accumulated over the years from filling about 100 small bods a month.

    On the other hand, trying it your way for a friend, once, I went through 20 100-150 use exceptional sewing kits without getting half the suit pieces I needed for him. I finished the suit using one Spined kit, from there. That's a hell of a lot more wasted leather from recycling than your false example from using runics ever thought to be.

    And, the "1 more point in a resist" is a straw man argument. The minimum any kit gives is far more than 1 more point, and is usually obvious when present. And, those "points in a resist" are just as likely to fall in a resist you have raise up anyway, than not. That's where using a Spined runic (1-3 properties) is an advantage - you're likely to get 15 1-property and 15 2-property items per kit, each with a decent chance of being useful.

    The only way your example would have any credibility at all, would be if you were using horned kits and barbed kits to craft before imbuing - when those are the ones you NEVER want to use to craft before imbue, because they are too likely to put properties on you don't want. It's the same reason why most people don't use anything bigger than copper or bronze runics to craft smith items that will be imbued, and prefer using DC runics.
     
  14. I may have been the person who crafted the suit for you. I had a shop above the brit x-roads last year, before I moved to Malas and took a break for a few months. I made a lot of nice suits for people back then.

    Here are a few tips.

    Unless I am trying for MR2, which requires expensive seeds of renewal, I always just use normal exceptional pieces to imbue.

    Here's a lengthy explanation why: If you use a runic kit and craft a barbed leather piece, the base resists are 38 total. They are 47 for exceptional barbed leather that isn't crafted using a runic.

    That means that you have to get a runic bonus of 9 points in one category in order to just equal the total resists for a normal piece that doesn't use a runic, and that the runic bonus to a property burns one of your five available imbues, plus it eats up all of the normal resists that you would have in that property.

    Here's the math if you aren't using a runic: In order to have all 70s, you need a total of 350 points, 375 if you are getting 95 fire resist. If I'm making all 6 pieces, 6 x 47 = 282 points before you add any properties. That means I just need another 93 points, and you can easily bump properties by 13 per imbue if you get anything like a standard distribution of properties. That means that, to get the total of 375, if you're making a full 6 piece suit, you will need to imbue about 8 or 9 properties with resists. You can imbue the other 21 or 22 properties with whatever else you want. If you're using the spirit of the totem, it just means you have to use 10 out of 25 properties for resists, so you still have 15 properties that you can imbue. (Spirit of the Totem only has 39 total resist, so you have to use at least one extra imbue for resists).

    Here's the math if I'm using a runic: Let's assume you're using the spirit of the totem. You only get a total of 38 x 5 = 190 points for the 5 piece suit with the runic. You will need 375 - 39 = 336 points. That means you'll need 146 points in resists. IF none of the runic properties is a resist. Add an average of 9 points to that 146 for every resist that is enhanced, because imbuing will count it as an already enhanced property; it counts from the item's base value. The math can get really complicated, but you have to add the amount of points of resist in the properties you wanted, then subtract the amounts in the properties you didn't want enhanced. On average, you can count that if you use runics, you'll have to use almost every single property available to just get to all 70s, without adding any other properties. It's not unusual for a runic crafted item to burn TWO properties on resists and still not have much more than the 47 total resists that it would have if it was just a plain GM crafted exceptional item.

    If you use runic kits, you can depend on using nearly every single property on all 5 pieces just to get the resists right. It will be practically impossible to make a truly awesome armor set using runic kits.

    It is true that when you use a runic kit, you can get some pieces that have a resist that is much higher than you can imbue. The problem is that those higher properties count toward the 500 point total. A 25 resist may count as 150 points or more; that cuts into the intensities of the other properties you're going to imbue. The odds of getting a piece with just the right amount of resist in just the right properties you want is slim to none.

    If you forget about the runic kits, you can make a good suit in a matter of minutes, with a pocket calculator; just make a few of each piece till you get items with the minimum resist in the categories you need, then imbue those to maximum.
     
  15. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    George - nicely argued, but wrong from my experience. I once thought so as well, until that ordeal I mentioned in my reply to Thunderz happened.

    most people end up wanting pieces with such oddball resists to get their pieces to fit with their artifacts, that it would take dozens of normal kits just to get the non-imbued resists to work out.

    Trying to get 47 resists in a pattern of a specific 3 of them in the 11-13 range, when 20 of the 47 are totally random in distribution, is so statistically difficult, that you'd be lucky to get one every 300-500 uses - and stastically likely not to get one in 1000 crafts, on occasion. That is, if the RNG worked properly (which it doesn't).

    In my experience, especially for someone with a low supply of Relic Fragments, it's easier and cheaper to use Spined runics to get the most expensive property (preferably with one resist also runic), then imbue the rest. Then again, I do tend to make items where the person doesn't need full intensity on all properties, on all items, because doing so would be overkill (for example, if the suit will have 18% LMC from non-crafted parts, making 3 8% LMC items would be wasting 25% intensity on one item. So, a 22% fire resist runic item with 6% LMC would work fine, and any other "finishing" less than max properties would as well).

    Imbuing is a balancing act, and is usually easier to assemble a suit if you don't try maxing out each property on every item, but instead only max out those that don't have much choice in the matter (the MR 2, and similar properties), then fill out the others as well best fit on the items to maximize point usage on each item, without wasting points going over caps on the abilities.
     
  16. unified

    unified Guest

    I have to agree with this. Maybe it was luck, but I was able to make two really good all 70's+ with 100% LRC and 40% LMC with one Spined Leather Runic Sewing Kit, horned leather and imbuing. Didn't waste a thing. I only had to imbue the cap to get the 10% cold resist I needed. It was not a difficult balancing act after I used Excel to list the numbers as I crafted. rolleyes:
     
  17. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    If you dont care if the suit is medable or not, proceed to make legs, tunic and gloves out of red dragonscale. Craft several of each piece until you get one with 20 fire on it. Counts not as a used imbuing slot. They ususally come with one or two really low resists that you can imbue back to 18. Then craft gorgets out of leather or metal with the right resist distribution.
    Dont start imbuing any pieces if you dont got all necessary pieces and have a spreadsheet / paper with detailed info what has to go on each piece.
    Also , if char is human , consider running with magic reflection on ( -25 phys,+10 to each elemental resist ). Can be cast from scroll. Makes getting the right resists much easier and can give you one or two additional imbuing slots.
     
  18. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    This.
     
  19. Gilmour

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    i find that if you can

    1. makes resis that fit with your standard items to make 70 resist in one or two resis without imbuing them, that there is more room left for the 3-4 missing resists

    standard items could be any arty or item that give resis such as brightsight lenses or the higher Hat of magi, orna, carapace etc.

    just know making all 70s armor with a pendant is really difficult but not impossible.
     
  20. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    here is one example why making something with a spined kit might not be the best way to go..
    im trying to make a mages gorget, with mr2, lmc8 lrc 18 and 2 resists with +15

    i made one plain leather gorget with a spined kit.
    it has

    lmc8
    phy 10
    fire 4
    cold 12
    poi 16
    en 17

    seems perfect right?

    well its 5/5, so i cant add lrc or mr2 :(
    it thinks the phy 10 was 1 and the cold 12 is another :(

    witch seems impossible to get a 5/5 piece from a spined kit that supposed to add only 1-3 mods :(
     
  21. Gilmour

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    its generelly hard to make things with spinned kit that is useable without using unwanted stats or weight. i only use this method for things where i dont need all the stats like a working scribes armor.

    else i just bite the sour apple as we say and use what ever mats it takes to imbue on a perfect, normal kit piece :)

    also you get higher "standard" resis with making them with a regular sewing kit for some reason
     
  22. TrackStar

    TrackStar Guest

    Off topic kind of but, if you dont use barbed runic kits to make items, what do you use them for?

    Sorry, I'm still learning and honestly don't know.
     
  23. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I still used barbed kits, honestly they are so cheap now, there isn't a reason not to. But, I only keep the perfect/near perfect pieces. The rest I just unravel.
     
  24. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I imbue quite a bit of armor and just for the record, I want to say that I use both the methods listed here. But, for the spined stuff, I make a bunch of it, keep it with the 'good' stuff and stick it in a chest to be used when I need it.

    But, if I know what I am specifically looking for, I will go through the chest and if it's not there, I will start from scratch- not using a runic kit.
     
  25. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    As NuSair said...

    A. You use Barbed kits (and sometimes Horned kits) to make stuff you want to use without imbuing. You won't get many (and rarely did you before), and the rest can be unraveled for essence and possibly relics.

    B. You use Spined kits to make stuff to Imbue with 1-2 high properties that would be cost-prohibitive to imbue, or fiendishly difficult to do.
    For an example of something that fits into both categories, when you're making a luck suit. When making luck items, you'll want to make the pieces with spined leather, using a spined kit (or higher), as that's the only way to get 140 luck pieces, without any risk of breaking an item (the other method is by imbuing regular leather items to 100 luck, then enhancing with spined, with less than a 10% chance of not breaking the item). You use a spined kit instead of one of the higher ones, for this, because you get more property control (It's too easy to make items with properties you don't want, or are unimbuable from too many properties, with the higher kits).

    C1. You use a normal sewing kit with Barbed or horned leather to make things that you only care about resists coming from the leather and exceptional quality, and you have the supplies to imbue everything else.
    C2. You use a normal sewing kit with Regular leather, to make items to imbue, that you can only get the desired resists on by first imbuing THEN enhancing. Typically, this is only done for the last piece of the suit, as the enhancement part is so risky (as you'll be trying to enhance one or more property to 20+ resists).
     
  26. TrackStar

    TrackStar Guest

    Great information! Thanks guys!